BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: Vellos on January 19, 2013, 09:03:00 PM
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Title: Religious Claims for Other Nobles
Summary: Allow priests using religious claims on regions to install other nobles, namely long-standing elders of a religion, as lords in a region, rather than just themselves.
Details: When a priest engages in a religious claim, instead of automatically installing that priest, provide an option to select a noble. Make the options the priest, and any elder of the same religion who has been an elder for at least 30 days and who does not hold any other lordship and who is in the same region. The 30-days restriction is to try and forestall the use of temporary-elderships to circumvent normal TO mechanics. The requirement of being in the same region simply seems reasonable and obvious. The requirement of eldership is, again, to prevent this option from being used as a semi-normal appointment option. The requirement of no other lordships means that this isn't a way to just cycle offices around elders– you're awarding it to some other faithful elder, not just trying to use religious influence to reward a patron who had some lesser region. Whoever is going to receive the new region must have already have stepped down from other lordships: they must bear some of the risk of losing out if the action fails. If it does, they end up without lands.
Benefits:
It makes sense. It seems historical-ish at least. It adds some useful diversity to the game. It enhances the priest game and priestly power without an appeal to the mystical or any kind of god-moding power: it makes sense that a priest could install someone else as lord, someone who the peasants would recognize as a friend of their faith. A loyal exiled duke who has returned to reclaim his house from the pagan usurper, put in power by the will of God! That is the situation this mechanic is intended to address. Hence the requirement of eldership, no other lands, etc.
Possible Exploits:
With the restraints I have identified, exploits should be few. Even non-exploiting uses should be few. However, it is possible it could be used to re-appoint wounded important people if the King can't make it to some outlying region. Duke Joe who is an elder in State Religion and who has been Duke for 90 years is wounded? Duke Joe's city is 2 days march from the frontlines? Well then– send a priest to do the appointment. This kind of abuse is possible– but the base cost of religious claims to begin with should reduce its likelihood.
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I like the idea of this.
Your example with a DUKE is outdated and incorrect though. Kings don't appoint lords, dukes do. Priests can't proclaim dukes, kings do.
It would, however, be bad ass to see a powerful elder priest say, "I'll just make my own duchy."
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Excuse me; governors then. You could claim a governorship/margravate, not a dukedom.
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I'd still rather see a priest declare a new duchy. You know you would too.
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I'd still rather see a priest declare a new duchy. You know you would too.
Sure I would– but that's an even bigger request very unlikely to be fulfilled. I am working in the realm of possibility.
Other thoughts/criticisms of this request?
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I like it, with three exceptions:
1) the priest and the noble to be appointed must be of the same realm.
2) the priest should be an elder for at least 30 days.
3) the priest should be a priest for at least 30 days.
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I like it, with three exceptions:
1) the priest and the noble to be appointed must be of the same realm.
2) the priest should be an elder for at least 30 days.
3) the priest should be a priest for at least 30 days.
I don't like 2 or 3. If the priest doesn't need these restrictions for regular claiming, they shouldn't be applied to this, IMO.
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I like it, with three exceptions:
1) the priest and the noble to be appointed must be of the same realm.
Why?
The option is not RTO. It is not a takeover for a realm. It is Declare Religious State. It should not care one whit what realms the two people involved belong to.
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1) it has the ability to cause the region to switch realms, doesn't it? If a priest declares religious state in a foreign realm, that region joins his realm. This restriction is so that a noble from Realm A doesn't take a region from Realm B and give it to Realm C. Just like Realm A can't TO a Region from Realm B in the name of Realm C. Yes, it is a religious option, but realm affiliation still matters. (Re: arresting priests.) Also, I thought this might help give incentive for religions to be willing to spread their elders out across multiple realms.
2) and 3) are for the same reason that the original proposal had the requirement that the recipient be an elder for 30 days. It's to prevent potential abuses along the line of "hey, Frank's got good oratory skills from being an ambassador, have him switch to priest, we'll make him an elder, then when the TO is done, he can switch back and we'll demote him". I.e it helps prevent gaming the system.
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In light of recent discussions of ways to improve religion, I'm gonna cast a spell of necromancy on what I still think is a good idea.
And my other religion proposals too.
Because these never really got a clear response from the Devs.
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I like it, with three exceptions:
1) the priest and the noble to be appointed must be of the same realm.
2) the priest should be an elder for at least 30 days.
3) the priest should be a priest for at least 30 days.
I totally agree with 2 and 3, they make perfect sense.
#1 I disagree with. IMHO, I think it'd be awesome to see a priest from Morek flip an Asylonian region to an Astrumite lord.