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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Ironsides on January 30, 2013, 04:21:49 AM
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So the Ruler of my realm just exiled a Duke for very good reasons, and this message came up:
Noble exiled (4 hours, 52 minutes ago)
****, **** of ****l has exiled ****, Duke of ****, Viscount of **** from the realm!
As a consequence, **** can no longer use most of the realms infrastructure, however he retains all titles and is still a member of the realm unless he leaves.
**** is, if you want to see it that way, engaging in a power contest with a hated enemy here. The longer **** can stay in the realm despite being exiled, the more honour and prestige **** will lose.
How is this option in anyway worthwhile? I thought exile was a way to remove Duke's not to injure oneself in the long run. Where does any of that say it is a bad thing for the guy getting exiled? He retains all titles and is still a member of the realm? Why bother, is my question?
Does the exiled person suffer any real consequences or can they just tramp around as a nuisance for as long as they feel like causing a steady decrease in the Ruler's stats?
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You didn't read the page and the help page closely before pushing the button, did you? Too bad. Reading is good.
Key points from the wiki:
"They will no longer be able to use the banks, recruiting centers, shops, or any other such realm infrastructure. Exile is not, however, without its own cost. It is a test of wills between the ruler and the exiled noble. For so long as the exiled noble remains within the realm, both he and the ruler will slowly lose both honor, and even prestige. This gradual loss will only end when either the exiled noble leaves the realm, or the ruler steps down from the throne."
If they leave your realm--step outside your lands, I think, due to the "within the realm" phrase--then they become rogues.
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You didn't read the page and the help page closely before pushing the button, did you? Too bad. Reading is good.
Key points from the wiki:
"They will no longer be able to use the banks, recruiting centers, shops, or any other such realm infrastructure. Exile is not, however, without its own cost. It is a test of wills between the ruler and the exiled noble. For so long as the exiled noble remains within the realm, both he and the ruler will slowly lose both honor, and even prestige. This gradual loss will only end when either the exiled noble leaves the realm, or the ruler steps down from the throne."
If they leave your realm--step outside your lands, I think, due to the "within the realm" phrase--then they become rogues.
He didn't push the button-he is not ruler. Thanks for the info though.
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How is exile a viable option for removing Dukes? Outside of self destruction, are Dukes supposed to be untouchable? I thought that was what exile was for...
This is the first time I've ever seen it done, and it was not what I thought it was.
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How is exile a viable option for removing Dukes? Outside of self destruction, are Dukes supposed to be untouchable? I thought that was what exile was for...
This is the first time I've ever seen it done, and it was not what I thought it was.
Its not self destruction, its mutual destruction. Is it viable? Not really because nothing ever actually forces him to leave even if he loses all of his honor and prestige. Exile is basically a strong encouragement to leave but nothing actually forces it. To the, I though exile was made to attack dukes, its one use but no mutual destruction makes overpowering IMO.
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Whatever gave you the impression that exiling was an "I win" button for rulers over dukes?
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Exile isn't meant to take out Dukes in the first place. And there are plenty of ways of dealing with Dukes besides exiling them, with varying degrees of collateral damage. Just take a look at Luria's history if you need creative ways of booting out Dukes.
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..... once upon a time, you get taxes in bonds. you get the idea why no access to banks was useful?
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If I recall, exiling was also buffed recently. It used to be heavily weighted in favor of the target, but now I believe the target loses stats at a higher rate. I think it was on the News feed.
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Unless you have a lot of H/P to be waste on exile someone, do not use it often. In my Battlemaster playing experience, I only ever seen this exile option used once. It was used to stir up trouble of course 8)
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I once exiled someone when I was young and foolish. It wasn't pretty.
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Exiles are rarely every useful. I've never used it, and I don't see my self ever using it either.
If they leave your realm--step outside your lands, I think, due to the "within the realm" phrase--then they become rogues.
That wasn't my interpretation, but I would really like to know if that is true.
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Unless you have a lot of H/P to be waste on exile someone, do not use it often ever.
There, fixed that for you.
Exiles are rarely every useful. I've never used it, and I don't see my self ever using it either.
If they leave your realm--step outside your lands, I think, due to the "within the realm" phrase--then they become rogues.
That wasn't my interpretation, but I would really like to know if that is true.
Not even a little bit.
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Now that everyone understands what exile does and does not do, I expect (hope, really) that when it is used, it's used on people who can't afford to wait it out or aren't prone to griefing. Example: Malus was going to use it on those people from the Huntsmen of Noble Right, but then I read the details and sized up the will of the competition and wrote it off as suicidal.
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Now that everyone understands what exile does and does not do, I expect (hope, really) that when it is used, it's used on people who can't afford to wait it out or aren't prone to griefing. Example: Malus was going to use it on those people from the Huntsmen of Noble Right, but then I read the details and sized up the will of the competition and wrote it off as suicidal.
I often wonder if any of that crowd managed to slip through our net. I'm sure some have... it's the only thing that really gets Hireshmont looking over his shoulder from time to time.
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I often wonder if any of that crowd managed to slip through our net. I'm sure some have... it's the only thing that really gets Hireshmont looking over his shoulder from time to time.
I think there are two or three others that eventually left Solaria and Luria in general for other parts. Oh well. The problem wasn't with the group, per se. It was with the sharing of sensitive information.
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Now that everyone understands what exile does and does not do, I expect (hope, really) that when it is used, it's used on people who can't afford to wait it out or aren't prone to griefing. Example: Malus was going to use it on those people from the Huntsmen of Noble Right, but then I read the details and sized up the will of the competition and wrote it off as suicidal.
Doesn't really sound like a worthwhile option then.
Other than a self destructive exile attempt, what else could a ruler, or anyone for that matter, do against a duke?
I am, unfortunately, unlearned in the Lurian arts...this forum post woul be a good place to list alternatives since exile proved bust
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I've never once found a use for the exile button.
It has proved functionally easier in the past to either buy off inconvenient Dukes or else plan for the secession you'd face for banning them in advance, e.g. wait for them to be absent or get your military in their city and then ban them.
Historically the only way you could 'un-Duke' somebody would be to arrest them for treason, and even then you'd have to catch them off guard. You'd probably end up fighting over it a bit on the field anyhow.
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Another option is to hire a really good infil and have him stab the Duke in question. Doesn't always work, but sometimes they are wounded so long (especially once they're older) that they loose their position if I'm not mistaking.
Another option, make sure the duke gets captured in battle^^
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Considering in this particular instance the ruler who clicked the 'exile' option has less H/P than the target, I am going to say this was a large mistake on the rulers part.
I myself have never bothered using exile, as the gains don't outweigh the risks. Thought about it several times in Solaria, and definitely thought about it in Swordfell, but I can't see a situation where it would be a clean break. The exiled person really has no motivation to leave, and plenty of motivation to stay and watch the Ruler suffer.
Luria is a prime example of how to deal with undesirables, there are more ways to chase someone off used in Luria in 12 months than the rest of the game put together for the same period of time. Dukes pose a special problem compared to most, and a royal duke even moreso.
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The one time I've seen exile used it was on a Knight who just decided to stick around and not leave and it resulted in the King having to resign his position because of the loss of H/P.
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There, fixed that for you.
Hehe, that is right :)
The one time I've seen exile used it was on a Knight who just decided to stick around and not leave and it resulted in the King having to resign his position because of the loss of H/P.
So the lessons learnt is never ever mess with someone unless you come prepare with lot of H/P 8)
I think it describes pretty well. Who can last longer in the realm, who has more H/P, and somebody who have lot of H/P to lose.
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Also, don't exile someone you can ban. I've seen it happen on BT, it was pretty stupid. Guy just couldn't wait for the guy to get banned, so he exiled him "in the meanwhile", and then learned the hard way that someone who is exiled can't be banned. Lucky for him the exile glitched and ended on its own, though...
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Sidebar for Ironsides: If you want to punish a Duke, work on his or her vassals. Get them to join another duchy. Create a new Duchy out of his city, and appoint your own lackeys to any regions in his former duchy with vacancies. Create a new duchy out of his city, and then stab him and appoint yourself Duke and Margrave. Sure, it is hard to get rid of a Duke in certain realm configurations... but do you remember how hard it used to be? Dukes own the means of production. Totally. They can even choose to reserve some of that production (land) for themselves to enhance their power further. Generally speaking, rulers have given it all away in fief to dukes.
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Solari: with the current situation, your plan would only work so far. A new Duchy in BR is impossible, from what I have seen, although I could very well be mistaken on that. Sevastian holds BR and his Ducal seat with a death grip.
Malus pretty much handed it to Sevastian on a silver platter, it'll take more than utilization of game mechanics to convince him to give it up, if anything can.
Exiling a Royal Duke = a very dangerous act. In coming days, we shall see why.
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You can still try to convince everyone else to join another duchy. Being duke means squat if you have no vassal lords.
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Being Duke means appointing Lords, though, and that loyalty/oath is pretty big, to a normal player.
I've found it safe to assume that every Duke has a powerbase of loyal vassals to draw on. Convincing them to join a seperate cause is the only way to really undermine that duke, but it's extremely difficult to Do so.
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Solari: with the current situation, your plan would only work so far. A new Duchy in BR is impossible, from what I have seen, although I could very well be mistaken on that. Sevastian holds BR and his Ducal seat with a death grip.
Malus pretty much handed it to Sevastian on a silver platter, it'll take more than utilization of game mechanics to convince him to give it up, if anything can.
Exiling a Royal Duke = a very dangerous act. In coming days, we shall see why.
So that everyone is on the same page, I'm not taking sides in this (OOC). IC is another matter. I imagine that from the perspective of Malus (and MANY), Bowie is the Troll/Scourge of Dwilight, and anyone that hitched his or her horse to that wagon is a short-sighted fool. Entertaining? Absolutely. Prone to firing too early and too often? Unquestionably.
Having said that, I agree that Swordfell's unique geography poses a problem for all involved. I was offering generalized advice. I honestly don't know how I boule resolve the situation in Swordfell, short of annexing it if I were Morek and creating an Astroist colony out of the faithful across Dwilight.
Hint: you may find support for this idea in the unlikeliest of places. ;)
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Being Duke means appointing Lords, though, and that loyalty/oath is pretty big, to a normal player.
I've found it safe to assume that every Duke has a powerbase of loyal vassals to draw on. Convincing them to join a seperate cause is the only way to really undermine that duke, but it's extremely difficult to Do so.
Appointing power only matters if you have regions in your duchy. Sevastian's vassals being Lurian (I suppose) probably helps their loyalty to him, but I've otherwise not found it to be that hard in most cases to convince lords to change duchies.
So that everyone is on the same page, I'm not taking sides in this (OOC). IC is another matter. I imagine that from the perspective of Malus (and MANY), Bowie is the Troll/Scourge of Dwilight, and anyone that hitched his or her horse to that wagon is a short-sighted fool. Entertaining? Absolutely. Prone to firing too early and too often? Unquestionably.
Having said that, I agree that Swordfell's unique geography poses a problem for all involved. I was offering generalized advice. I honestly don't know how I boule resolve the situation in Swordfell, short of annexing it if I were Morek and creating an Astroist colony out of the faithful across Dwilight.
Hint: you may find support for this idea in the unlikeliest of places. ;)
All the anti-Sevastian people have to do is ask Morek to conquer regions from them which are under Sevastian's power, and then have Morek give them back when the situation is deemed satisfactory.
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I just went through these in the Banning Royals thread, but here are a number of steps to take to get rid of a troublesome Duke:
1. Dissolve his duchy.
2. If he rules a city, stop selling him food and wait for the peasantry to toss him out on his butt. This is inevitable if you can make the food embargo stick.
3. Put a huge bounty on him and/or directly recruit infiltrators to attack him while promising them amnesty if they get caught.
4. In conjunction with stabbings, sick a priest/diplomat on his region to destroy morale and loyalty while he's (hopefully) wounded and hope the peasants toss him out.
5. Get a priest to auto da fe the bastard multiple times until one sticks.
6. Fine him into oblivion.
7. Tax him into oblivion.
8. Give his region away to another realm.
9. Ban him while he's away from his region, wounded, or otherwise unable to secede.
So yeah, those are just a handful of ideas. Get creative. Dukes are not untouchable. If you have enough support, most of the above options should be available to you. If you don't, you've got no business moving against that Duke in the first place.
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I just went through these in the Banning Royals thread, but here are a number of steps to take to get rid of a troublesome Duke:
1. Dissolve his duchy.
How does this work, exactly?
Can a ruler just unilaterally eliminate a duchy? That still wouldn't remove him as lord of course, but I'd be surprised if rulers had that kind of one-click power to prevent a secession.
I just went through these in the Banning Royals thread, but here are a number of steps to take to get rid of a troublesome Duke:
2. If he rules a city, stop selling him food and wait for the peasantry to toss him out on his butt. This is inevitable if you can make the food embargo stick.
4. In conjunction with stabbings, sick a priest/diplomat on his region to destroy morale and loyalty while he's (hopefully) wounded and hope the peasants toss him out.
5. Get a priest to auto da fe the bastard multiple times until one sticks.
6. Fine him into oblivion.
7. Tax him into oblivion.
Or a very simple combination of these.
Ask yourself, "What is the must frustrating part of Dwilight?"
Answer: everything goes rogue.
Solution: drive the region rogue.
How?
1. Tax him massively/exile him so he can't add militia
2. Stop defending his region
3. Use priests/ambassadors to screw up his region
4. Don't sell him food
5. Find allies abroad to come and sit in his region to loot it repeatedly
Starvation, political meddling, and an enemy army burning the region down will drive it rogue, and it probably wouldn't even take THAT long. Though I guess BR probably has a food surplus, so starvation may not work.
Actually... can you loot your own realm?
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How does this work, exactly?
Can a ruler just unilaterally eliminate a duchy? That still wouldn't remove him as lord of course, but I'd be surprised if rulers had that kind of one-click power to prevent a secession.
Or a very simple combination of these.
Ask yourself, "What is the must frustrating part of Dwilight?"
Answer: everything goes rogue.
Solution: drive the region rogue.
How?
1. Tax him massively/exile him so he can't add militia
2. Stop defending his region
3. Use priests/ambassadors to screw up his region
4. Don't sell him food
5. Find allies abroad to come and sit in his region to loot it repeatedly
Starvation, political meddling, and an enemy army burning the region down will drive it rogue, and it probably wouldn't even take THAT long. Though I guess BR probably has a food surplus, so starvation may not work.
Actually... can you loot your own realm?
None of this will work against Sevastion. None. This is why I hate the exile feature. He has been exiled, so now he just waits a while and Abbigail is no longer ruler and he gets to stay because he is iron-willed.
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None of this will work against Sevastion. None. This is why I hate the exile feature. He has been exiled, so now he just waits a while and Abbigail is no longer ruler and he gets to stay because he is iron-willed.
A. It's Sevastian.
B. You don't even play in Swordfell. So why do you care so bleeding much?
C. Being iron-willed is a good thing. Just because it's turned against 'your side' doesn't make it any less of a good thing.
D. There are plenty of ways Sevastian could be got rid of. I'm just not stupid enough to give you a list of his weaknesses. It's not my fault people can't seem to think outside of the box.
(and if anyone thinks that I didn't plan all of this out well in advance, you are blind. Why else be so obstinate about stepping down as Duke when he was asked to merge with Flowrestown? Why pushing the idea of the capital switch and the blatant lie about 'exorbitant' transfer fees? Why do you think I fought so hard to be the seceding Duke? Royal status. Plain and simple. Swordfell's birth owes itself to Sevastian. I hadn't planned on the immediate outburst of childishness from Bowie and the subsequent events that have happened, but I made damn certain that it would be a nightmare if the Ruling Class ever turned against me. Welcome to Luria, n00bs.)
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Heh, well in the case of Swordfell, I would have explored other options before exiling him. :P
I speak as someone who has had to play with difficult dukes. But, you can hike taxes to 50% (is that the cap?)
The capital of Swordfell is in Balance's retreat right? If the Courts of Iron duchy really doesn't want to be tied to the Courts of Stone can't it split off into its own realm?
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Heh, well in the case of Swordfell, I would have explored other options before exiling him. :P
I speak as someone who has had to play with difficult dukes. But, you can hike taxes to 50% (is that the cap?)
The capital of Swordfell is in Balance's retreat right? If the Courts of Iron duchy really doesn't want to be tied to the Courts of Stone can't it split off into its own realm?
Good call Sypher ;)
I believe it can split if it wants. I see no reason why it doesn't, if they are so angry about having Sevastian around. It's not like they had BR before Sevastian joined, or any of the regions commonly acknowledged as his domain.
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The basis of the complaining I see here is that the Ruler and associated faction didn't understand what they were doing, didn't prepare, and then actively and openly moved against one of the most powerful persons in the realm without fully understanding what they were getting into and how to deal with it. This is a game about politics, and if you are going to have an internal power struggle, be prepared. Have contingency plans. Have contingency plans for those too. Throw money at people, that's one of my favorite ways to get things done.
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You can only dissolve an empty duchy so generally that wouldn't work very often as most(all?) Duke's are also region lords.
Also, can't loot in your own realm.
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Interestingly, there are more options to use against Dukes now than there were when I last had a ruler. Before a Duke could make it so none of his income was taxable by the crown. Granted, I think that the tax rate applies to all the Duchies but I could see certain rulers still using that power to great effect to harm those Dukes he or she doesn't like while having ways to appease the other Dukes.
I can think of other ways a realm can make things unpleasant for someone they can't ban. Bankers and Judges have ways of 'encouraging' those individuals that might be friendly to the offending individual.
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You can only dissolve an empty duchy so generally that wouldn't work very often as most(all?) Duke's are also region lords.
Also, can't loot in your own realm.
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Interestingly, there are more options to use against Dukes now than there were when I last had a ruler. Before a Duke could make it so none of his income was taxable by the crown. Granted, I think that the tax rate applies to all the Duchies but I could see certain rulers still using that power to great effect to harm those Dukes he or she doesn't like while having ways to appease the other Dukes.
I can think of other ways a realm can make things unpleasant for someone they can't ban. Bankers and Judges have ways of 'encouraging' those individuals that might be friendly to the offending individual.
Another realm could come loot it, however. Come to think, Morek wouldn't even need to declare war, it could just come down in BR and loot it rogue.
However, for the options listed Geronus, these don't really work when the guy is lord of the capital, and the capital happens to be a stronghold (which usually have food surpluses). Starving a region is also a hell of a lot more complicated now that the guy can simply go to another realm, receive tax in bonds, and use it to buy food.
However, the ruler could at least hike the ducal tax to a maximum, and manually give some back to the other duke(s). Similarly, everyone could drop a ton of militia in BR, right before taxes, and cause it to go bankrupt (loss of all infrastructure). Or simply to drain his financial resources.
Really sounds like you guys should have rebelled instead of protesting... Had you failed, I'm sure Morek could have forced you back in.
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Get Morek or Luria to loot the place into the Stone Age. I doubt Sevastian can afford much militia. Or, as I said before, get a friendly priest/diplomat to work some magic. Preferably after you pay someone to stab Sevastian so he can't fix the place back up. Or just auto da fe him. There are still plenty of workable options. Fine him into oblivion. Ban all his supporters. Bribe/threaten/cajole all his lords into changing Duchies.
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Can't use auto da fe without first getting him kicked out of the church. And then you'd need a priest to take the rap and the !@#$ storm the church would throw at him for doing it.
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Can't use auto da fe without first getting him kicked out of the church. And then you'd need a priest to take the rap and the !@#$ storm the church would throw at him for doing it.
Yep, he's got his base covered. But the game mechanics do allow that, it's not possible in this case because he planned ahead.
If the game mechanics were different, he would have planned differently.
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Yep, he's got his base covered. But the game mechanics do allow that, it's not possible in this case because he planned ahead.
If the game mechanics were different, he would have planned differently.
+1
Being married to a Light of the Church of SA helps too.
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If they leave your realm--step outside your lands, I think, due to the "within the realm" phrase--then they become rogues.
eh... is that politically or geographically?
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Yep, he's got his base covered. But the game mechanics do allow that, it's not possible in this case because he planned ahead.
If the game mechanics were different, he would have planned differently.
BR is an SA region, eh? Interesting; I figured it would be some Lurian religion. Yeah, you won't be able to use those religious options unless you get an Elder on your side, someone willing to potentially take a bullet. What you need is for Allison Kabrinski to still be an Elder ;D
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BR is an SA region, eh? Interesting; I figured it would be some Lurian religion. Yeah, you won't be able to use those religious options unless you get an Elder on your side, someone willing to potentially take a bullet. What you need is for Allison Kabrinski to still be an Elder ;D
As I recall, Abbigal was a friend of Allison.
Honestly though, it seems to me that the best option is just to get Morek to come and burn BR to the ground.
I also like Chenier's infrastructure-overload idea. I can imagien the fury of a lord waking up to find that the rulers of the realm are stationing a permanent army in his city which he is expected to feed, supply, and pay.
But that wouldn't actually rogue the region or drive him out would it?
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As I recall, Abbigal was a friend of Allison.
Still is, afaik, and it's been a huge issue in the entire situation.
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As I recall, Abbigal was a friend of Allison.
Honestly though, it seems to me that the best option is just to get Morek to come and burn BR to the ground.
I also like Chenier's infrastructure-overload idea. I can imagien the fury of a lord waking up to find that the rulers of the realm are stationing a permanent army in his city which he is expected to feed, supply, and pay.
But that wouldn't actually rogue the region or drive him out would it?
No it would not, but it would possibly cause infrastructure to be dismantled and it would reduce his income to near-zero. He could start disbanding militia, but he would have to pay gold out of his own pocket to do it. As long as his enemies keep dropping more troops there, enough there to zero out his income, he'll eventually run low on gold. I believe he'll still be able to earn gold via food sales though, assuming the militia doesn't eat all the surplus.
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.... how much does the militia eat? you are probably looking for hundreds of men for a few bushels a day.
do infils get to burn food?
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Yeah I don't think they eat that much, honestly. I have never tried to determine exactly how much food troops consume, but I believe it to be negligible. I mentioned it not because I think it would be significant in practice, but because it's possible in theory.
As far as I know, yes, infiltrators can burn granaries. I doubt one could do it on a sustained basis though, especially if there's also a huge quantity of militia in the region (which would make infiltrator actions harder to complete).
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Yeah I don't think they eat that much, honestly. I have never tried to determine exactly how much food troops consume, but I believe it to be negligible. I mentioned it not because I think it would be significant in practice, but because it's possible in theory.
As far as I know, yes, infiltrators can burn granaries. I doubt one could do it on a sustained basis though, especially if there's also a huge quantity of militia in the region (which would make infiltrator actions harder to complete).
But the judge could just continually release him.
And why does the exiled person need gold? How does that hurt him to lose gold?
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Good call Sypher ;)
I believe it can split if it wants. I see no reason why it doesn't, if they are so angry about having Sevastian around. It's not like they had BR before Sevastian joined, or any of the regions commonly acknowledged as his domain.
It can not split. The last city of the realm is unable to leave the realm through secession though I don't know about changing allegiance. Also, I am not fighting for sides exactly or that iron willed is bad, what I don't like is that it is one-sided so I just don't like the situation in general. In any realm where the ruler is elected regularly, like Sevastion's, the exiled can always win the battle. Always. All you have to do is wait long enough and you win. That's what I don't like, that iron willed on the ruler's part does nothing, while iron-willed on the exile's part means he can't lose.
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But he can be dealt with, you just don't see the solution.
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+1
Being married to a Light of the Church of SA helps too.
I knew Sevastian and Malus patched things up, but wow. Was Sevastian planning on informing his wife, the Luminary? :p
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Actually, Malus has yet to write Sevastian. I keep forgetting and stuff keeps getting in the way when I do remember. Like, literally. He hasn't written to Sevastian in real-life months.
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Actually, Malus has yet to write Sevastian. I keep forgetting and stuff keeps getting in the way when I do remember. Like, literally. He hasn't written to Sevastian in real-life months.
So Malus is a terrible spouse?
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I knew Sevastian and Malus patched things up, but wow. Was Sevastian planning on informing his wife, the Luminary? :p
Light, Luminary, it all has to do with illumination :P
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As I recall, Abbigal was a friend of Allison.
Honestly though, it seems to me that the best option is just to get Morek to come and burn BR to the ground.
I also like Chenier's infrastructure-overload idea. I can imagien the fury of a lord waking up to find that the rulers of the realm are stationing a permanent army in his city which he is expected to feed, supply, and pay.
But that wouldn't actually rogue the region or drive him out would it?
Nop, but as others aid, could bankrupt him while draining his food. Which, theoretically, could end up starving the region, but I don't see that happening.
SA elders COULD ask Machiavel to convert the region to VE, and use claim region and/cause unrest. I don't see that happening, though.
Any ambassador could lower sympathy to Swordfell, helping to cause it revolt (while also making it harder to get back under control after).
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You know what would have solved this problem before it started? Two parties not entering into an arrangement with ulterior motives. The question, then, is whether either of the parties (IC) wanted this to succeed.
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You know what would have solved this problem before it started? Two parties not entering into an arrangement with ulterior motives. The question, then, is whether either of the parties (IC) wanted this to succeed.
Yea, not having a Lurian head the secession would have been a good thing. Then, rebelling against him could have patched things up.
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You know what would have solved this problem before it started? Two parties not entering into an arrangement with ulterior motives. The question, then, is whether either of the parties (IC) wanted this to succeed.
So you're saying neither party can be Lurian? :p
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So you're saying neither party can be Lurian nobles? :p
T, FTFY
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So you're saying neither party can be Lurian? :p
There are plenty of Lurians who are straight shooters. The trick for outsiders is finding them. The challenge for those Lurians is weeding out and crushing the impostors.
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A Morek-D'Hara liberation force could perhaps help evict some of these pesky lurians from Swordfell. :P
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T, FTFY
I got it! Next realm that secedes will be lead by Pembroke Welsh Corgis. Nothing could go wrong, because:
A.) Corgis are loyal.
B.) Who could plot against a Corgi?
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A Morek-D'Hara liberation force could perhaps help evict some of these pesky lurians from Swordfell. :P
And herein lies the problem: provincial thinkers. I suspect that the only characters who are fighting over influence in Swordfell are the characters who don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
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(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7027553792/h91D19483/)
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(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7027553792/h91D19483/)
It's Sevastian!! So cute, so cuddly, so dastardly!
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It's Sevastian!! So cute, so cuddly, so dastardly!
Nein.
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Jawohl
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Corgis are too level headed for Sevastian to be one.
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Corgis are too level headed for Sevastian to be one.
You never met my corgi Mojo. He was nuts, plain and simple. Maybe bipolar would be a better term.
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The do say dogs take on some aspects of their owner's personality.
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Lol, I won't deny my own bits of madness. It's part of life! And damned enjoyable!
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BR is an SA region, eh? Interesting; I figured it would be some Lurian religion.
It wasn't, until last week. I took care of that.
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SA was the dominant religion in the area until that bug hit a few weeks/months ago. Massive thanks for coming to fix that situation for me vonGenf!
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If it took so little to convert it, I'm confident I could do the same. ;)
But then again, I wouldn't do so without an express request from SA elders. Nothing stops any random SA priest schmuck from instigating unrest, though.
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If it took so little to convert it, I'm confident I could do the same. ;)
But then again, I would do so without an express request from SA elders. Nothing stops any random SA priest schmuck from instigating unrest, though.
Except the crucifixion that follows.
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Except the crucifixion that follows.
Or so you say.
Can't demote a priest, can't kick him out either. It's for Swordfell to weigh whether it prefers Lurians crippling their realm, or possibly having a few people discontent with their actions within the church.
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Or so you say.
Can't demote a priest, can't kick him out either. It's for Swordfell to weigh whether it prefers Lurians crippling their realm, or possibly having a few people discontent with their actions within the church.
No Lurian is trying to cripple the realm. Sevastian is holding onto his domain and acting the part of a Duke. Abbigal, Bowie, and their actions are what have been causing problems since the protests. I was perfectly content to hang out and just develop BR. Now in order to do that, I have to ensure my continued sovereignty. It's not my fault that Abbigal nor Bowie understands that their demands have been offensive or ridiculous. After promising ducal sovereignty and freedom to develop his duchy as he wished, trying to unseat him because you are jealous of his region and power is just silly.
Particularly since he does still hold power. Exile status is just a minor setback.
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Or so you say.
Can't demote a priest, can't kick him out either. It's for Swordfell to weigh whether it prefers Lurians crippling their realm, or possibly having a few people discontent with their actions within the church.
You can't demote a priest from Full Member status, but you can demote one. The ramifications of a priest abusing their powers for political purpose is typically much more severe in SA.
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You can't demote a priest from Full Member status, but you can demote one. The ramifications of a priest abusing their powers for political purpose is typically much more severe in SA.
Yes, that's what I meant.
In any case, I'm no SA priest, the decision ain't mine to take. It still is an option, however.
Easiest way would probably be to take over the West Divide, give it to D'Hara, put ton of militia in BR, wait for it to bankrupt and for all militia to leave, then ask for D'Hara to invade and TO BR. Then D'Hara can give it all back. After all, Sevastian is threatening D'Haran ambassadors for no reason and inciting violence.
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Yes, that's what I meant.
In any case, I'm no SA priest, the decision ain't mine to take. It still is an option, however.
Easiest way would probably be to take over the West Divide, give it to D'Hara, put ton of militia in BR, wait for it to bankrupt and for all militia to leave, then ask for D'Hara to invade and TO BR. Then D'Hara can give it all back. After all, Sevastian is threatening D'Haran ambassadors for no reason and inciting violence.
It's just Machaviel. He should be insulted if he wasn't be threatened while in lands recognized to be Lurian. Plus asking D'hara to take over a region is like asking Betty White to help you move a couch to the curb through a narrow doorway.
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It's just Machaviel. He should be insulted if he wasn't be threatened while in lands recognized to be Lurian. Plus asking D'hara to take over a region is like asking Betty White to help you move a couch to the curb through a narrow doorway.
And yet D'Hara managed to outlast Solaria. Interesting, that.
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And yet D'Hara managed to outlast Solaria. Interesting, that.
Not in any way that is meaningful to a competition between them.
The realm named Solaria is gone because of Lurian politics, but almost all the lands are still Lurian, and pretty much still governed by Malus.
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Yes, that's what I meant.
In any case, I'm no SA priest, the decision ain't mine to take. It still is an option, however.
Easiest way would probably be to take over the West Divide, give it to D'Hara, put ton of militia in BR, wait for it to bankrupt and for all militia to leave, then ask for D'Hara to invade and TO BR. Then D'Hara can give it all back. After all, Sevastian is threatening D'Haran ambassadors for no reason and inciting violence.
Sevastian hasn't threatened a D'Haran since he left Luria Nova. You are being overly sensitive. Dayumn.
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And yet D'Hara managed to outlast Solaria. Interesting, that.
I love how D'harans tout that as a victory or something. Luria is more than a single realm. All Solaria's dissolution did was provide Luria with a stronger, more centralized power base.
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I love how D'harans tout that as a victory or something. Luria is more than a single realm. All Solaria's dissolution did was provide Luria with a stronger, more centralized power base.
For Luria's eternal Glory.
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I love how D'harans tout that as a victory or something. Luria is more than a single realm. All Solaria's dissolution did was provide Luria with a stronger, more centralized power base.
A stronger, more centralized power base still incapable of gaining any grounds against D'Hara, heck even losing the lands it had acquired while D'Hara was on the western front.
And Woelfy, if the following was not meant to be a thinly-veiled threat, my mind is blown.
Letter from Sevastian Guile (2 days, 1 hour ago)
Ambassador Chénier,
Is there a reason you have come to my stronghold unannounced? I assume you are here to work with Allison's puppet Bowie. I recommend not sticking around too long. My vassals and peasants detest your church, and are rather violent these days.
I do hope life is pleasant on the isles, and that peace can be found in the region.
Regards,
Sevastian Guile
Duke of The Courts of Stone
Viscount of Balance's Retreat
I can certainly understand Sevastian denying it, much like Machiavel is indeed being overly sensitive about it, but I have a really hard time believing that a threat was not the intent behind these words.
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It was a statement of the most recent priesty report Sevastian, and thus I, have seen in the region, your church wasn't liked. I was being factual.
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It was a statement of the most recent priesty report Sevastian, and thus I, have seen in the region, your church wasn't liked. I was being factual.
On what are you basing this? SA isn't hateful to VE last I knew, and SA members in my realm seemed to have confirmed this. There are no region-tied "sympathy" towards any given religion that I know of. I've never said a region report say "the locals don't like X faith", and I've never seen that in a religion report either.
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It was a summarization from a player a while ago, I'll try to find it.
Regardless, it wasn't meant with ill intent. Had I meant ill, I would have been far more direct.
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It was a summarization from a player a while ago, I'll try to find it.
Regardless, it wasn't meant with ill intent. Had I meant ill, I would have been far more direct.
I have no idea where he took it from, because as far as I know, there's nowhere that the game would state such a thing.
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A stronger, more centralized power base still incapable of gaining any grounds against D'Hara, heck even losing the lands it had acquired while D'Hara was on the western front.
You mean when Luria Nova completely ignored D'hara except to swat down their couple failed attempts to invade our lands and utterly annihilated their precious ally without breaking a sweat? Oh no, you get the Desert back! We let you take it back, because, its the Desert. That more centralized power base quite capably destroyed not just the D'haran army but the Vesperian army.
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You mean when Luria Nova completely ignored D'hara except to swat down their couple failed attempts to invade our lands and utterly annihilated their precious ally without breaking a sweat? Oh no, you get the Desert back! We let you take it back, because, its the Desert. That more centralized power base quite capably destroyed not just the D'haran army but the Vesperian army.
Not buying it. You hardly launched any attacks on the Vesperi, and their elite were intentionally losing the war against you, diverting thousands of gold from the war efforts to later fund a tournament.
Prove me wrong... against the orvando-saxons. If you can't dent them, you surely couldn't dent us either. You'll have support for this while you were all on your own against us.
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OMG, just stop this crap already. No one in this thread gives a damn about whether the Lurias or the D'Harans lost the damned war. You both have incompetent armies, and are stuck arguing about which one was MORE incompetent.
Take this crap back to the Luria Vs. D'Hara thread, and quit filling up the whole damn forum with this garbage.
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OMG, just stop this crap already. No one in this thread gives a damn about whether the Lurias or the D'Harans lost the damned war. You both have incompetent armies, and are stuck arguing about which one was MORE incompetent.
Take this crap back to the Luria Vs. D'Hara thread, and quit filling up the whole damn forum with this garbage.
+1
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As I recall, Abbigal was a friend of Allison.
Honestly though, it seems to me that the best option is just to get Morek to come and burn BR to the ground.
I also like Chenier's infrastructure-overload idea. I can imagien the fury of a lord waking up to find that the rulers of the realm are stationing a permanent army in his city which he is expected to feed, supply, and pay.
But that wouldn't actually rogue the region or drive him out would it?
umm,, how did Abbigal and Allison become freinds?
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umm,, how did Abbigal and Allison become freinds?
The exact same way that Bowie became friends with Allison, and a spy for the Moot, and friends with that Lurian guy (what was his name, Tjsasa?) and secretly plotting to eradicate Astromancry from Swordfell. Don't you see? Sevastian can see into parallel universes! He knows things that aren't even true. It is rather amazing if you ask me. I'm impressed.
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Lulz. Just.... Lulz.
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The exact same way that Bowie became friends with Allison, and a spy for the Moot, and friends with that Lurian guy (what was his name, Tjsasa?) and secretly plotting to eradicate Astromancry from Swordfell. Don't you see? Sevastian can see into parallel universes! He knows things that aren't even true. It is rather amazing if you ask me. I'm impressed.
To be fair, Bowie has been collaborating with Machiavel. To the point that it almost single-handedly drives D'Hara's foreign policy. Lots of characters know that. However, the idea that anyone in Luria is friends with Bowie, or vice versa, is ludicrous and should discredit Sevastian's entire statement.
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To be fair, Bowie has been collaborating with Machiavel. To the point that it almost single-handedly drives D'Hara's foreign policy. Lots of characters know that. However, the idea that anyone in Luria is friends with Bowie, or vice versa, is ludicrous and should discredit Sevastian's entire statement.
Ya they're friends, but it is no conspiracy. And they're directing their foreign policy based on Bowie? Ha! Why?
I had no idea the pair had such influence on the Tomb Islands.
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To be fair, Bowie has been collaborating with Machiavel. To the point that it almost single-handedly drives D'Hara's foreign policy. Lots of characters know that. However, the idea that anyone in Luria is friends with Bowie, or vice versa, is ludicrous and should discredit Sevastian's entire statement.
Tarajist made a blatant reference to Bowie in character. If they aren't in communication, it was a very well done ploy on Tarajist's part.
But then again, I don't think of Tarajist as a Lurian...
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To be fair, Bowie has been collaborating with Machiavel. To the point that it almost single-handedly drives D'Hara's foreign policy. Lots of characters know that. However, the idea that anyone in Luria is friends with Bowie, or vice versa, is ludicrous and should discredit Sevastian's entire statement.
Because obviously you know that for a fact. If you think Bowie single-handedly drives D'Hara's foreign policy, you give him way too much credit. Alice has a lot more to do with D'Hara's stance on Swordfell than Bowie could ever dream to.
Machiavel enjoys Bowie's unpredictability. But this is a trait that he utmost hates in collaborators... such as Glaumring.
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Because obviously you know that for a fact. If you think Bowie single-handedly drives D'Hara's foreign policy, you give him way too much credit.
I know it for a fact. I didn't mean to claim that Bowie is the driver of D'Hara's foreign policy. Machiavel is. And Machiavel's interest is very much in Swordfell.
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I know it for a fact. I didn't mean to claim that Bowie is the driver of D'Hara's foreign policy. Machiavel is. And Machiavel's interest is very much in Swordfell.
I will admit that Machiavel probably has the largest influence on foreign policy but Chenier can say for sure, I am pretty sure your a bit off in his interest of Swordfell. Caring is one thing but to the extent your implying I would say is definitely off.
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A lot of people have interests in Swordfell. Who wouldn't?
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Me.