| Summary: | End Aurvandil\'s Blatant Cheating |
| Violation: | Multi accounts |
| World: | Dwilight |
| Complainer: | Pat wiley (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=22073) |
| About: | Mendicant (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=31456) |
Although Mendicant's accounts have been locked it's well established that he is not the only multi account player in Aurvandil.Â
The realm is already prepping for his next horde of accounts to come back and rule the realm again.
If something isn't done Aurvandil will always remain a mecca for cheaters.Â
The entire realm needs to be given a warning. If there's one more confirmed case of multi account cheating the entire realm should be erased and all its players banned.Â
That sounds like the kind of complaint that should just be plain rejected.
Multi account cheating to rule an entire realm should be rejected?
"one more confirmed case of cheating and every player in the realm should be banned" should be rejected.
Isn't the fact that they've reserved a spot for Mendicant to reestablish himself after his lock period is over evidence?
Seems irrelevant to me, since his lock period is permanent.
True, he'll have to use one of his other alts. What a pity.
Seems irrelevant to me, since his lock period is permanent.
If you know who they are, and can provide evidence, you are urged in the strongest possible terms to report them to the Titans.
There is no other recourse against cheaters. The Magistrates have no tools to detect, confirm, or punish cheaters. Complaining about cheaters in-game, on the forum, on IRC, or anywhere else will get exactly nothing done. There is one and only one way to deal with cheaters, and that is to report them to the Titans.
Again, where's the evidence? Where's the list of suspected accounts? What have they supposedly done?
I can't even count all the times we have received accusations of multis that "everyone knows" are guilty, with no more evidence than they started in the same month, or have names from the same anime series. If you want an accusation to be taken seriously, you need evidence, and a specific set of accounts that you think are involved. What I see quoted above is a bunch of angry people who are taking scraps of information, combining it with insubstantiated rumour, and letting their imaginations run away with it. There's nothing in this report that even deserves being glanced at, let alone investigated.
Dustole reported interacting with new accounts that seemed to fit the same pattern as the locked accounts.
Again, where's the evidence? Where's the list of suspected accounts? What have they supposedly done?
I can't even count all the times we have received accusations of multis that "everyone knows" are guilty, with no more evidence than they started in the same month, or have names from the same anime series. If you want an accusation to be taken seriously, you need evidence, and a specific set of accounts that you think are involved. What I see quoted above is a bunch of angry people who are taking scraps of information, combining it with insubstantiated rumour, and letting their imaginations run away with it. There's nothing in this report that even deserves being glanced at, let alone investigated.
We do not lock people without evidence, and everyone should be very, very happy that we don't.
I understand every anger. However, we can not rewind history. What exactly do you want us to do? Can you come up with something that would not have some other group of players complain (and rightfully) for not being given whatever it is?
Also, what people seem to be forgetting is that we have invested a lot of time and effort into investigating Aurvendil several times. It makes me sad to read that people think we don't care, because we do. We care about finding cheaters and we care about protecting good players. Most importantly, we want to be sure that we don't lock honest players as cheaters on some kind of overzealous inquisition.
Yes, I would rather let someone I suspect of cheating stay than lock someone who might be innocent. I am very sure that if we are talking not hypothetically but about an actual innocent player, say, you, then you would agree with this in dubio pro reo approach, yes?
The bare minimum would be breaking the momentum that cheating gave them.
No.
The accounts have been locked, and no method of measuring 'momentum' exists. Even if we wanted to, we cannot revert things that cannot be measured.
Deal with it, and stop this "woe is me" crap.
Off the top of my head, I'd guess that if there are, in fact, further cheaters among the remaining accounts in Aurvandil, it will take 2-3 days of working 4-8 hours on nothing else to confirm that they, and no one else, are cheaters. If there aren't any, it will take longer.
Apply some arbitrary penalty.MMmm... yeah... Arbitrary punishment of an entire realm because one player in that realm did something stupid. That just smacks of righteousness and justice.
If you punish no one and the cheaters and their collaborators act with impunity then you have a ruined game.You are working from a very bad initial assumption here. Someone was punished. Multi-accounting was identified, the accounts involved were investigated and locked. The cheater was punished. End of story. I'm sorry that we we didn't act with enough public spectacle and the random floggings of innocent people to suit your desire for revenge.
I, and others, favor total realm destruction by now, though. Would they complain? Sure. But why would it be fair that they get to keep their realm as a superpower while all of their neighbors were crushed to their cheating? A realm is not a right. If a realm was acquired by cheating, then no one is entitled to it. Just like when you acquire a stolen good, even through legitimate means, you are not entitled to it. Why would justice be any different in a game than in RL? The honest players can then try to rebuild their realm legitimately. The injustice suffered by these players would be far lesser than the injustice that was suffered and is still being suffered by the players of the 'moot playing fairly.
What's stopping Mendicant's player from making a new account? Or multiple accounts for that matter?
If people are, indeed, reserving him positions for his return, then I am all for giving them a 3-day warning lock for supporting a cheater.Aurvandil's nobles want to change the title of the rulership to a Regency or something like that because they wait for their true king, Mendicant the character, not the player.
Their characters are stranded, including... gold, bonds...Are you sure about their gold and bonds being gone? I may be wrong, but I believe it has previously been implied by the other devs that the bonds did go through the tax system, though I do not know about the gold.
MMmm... yeah... Arbitrary punishment of an entire realm because one player in that realm did something stupid. That just smacks of righteousness and justice.
I'd like to note that both Anaris and ^ban^ have characters in Luria Nova. I have been led to believe that Luria Nova directly benefited from one of Mendicant's alt accounts (Luria Vesperi's General, who deliberately threw his realm under the proverbial bus and let Luria Nova win).
So you guys are not exactly unbiased neutral parties here.
Let me put it this way. Those accounts pumped gold into the realm. You guys can add up how much gold they accumulate right? You can then deduct that from the realm right?
You can then say "Sorry guys this was ill gotten gold and you can't keep it". Sounds pretty just to me.
Now here's were arbitrary comes in. If it takes too long or its impossible to ad up all that gold all the accounts earned you can just pick an amount, a lowball figure. Lets say 1000 gold. If the guy had 14 accounts and he only managed to put 1000 gold into the realm he's the most pathetic cheater I've ever heard of.
Again, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Let me put it this way. Those accounts pumped gold into the realm. You guys can add up how much gold they accumulate right?Maybe, maybe not. There are not a lot of records kept of that kind of thing. There are ways to make approximations, but they may not be reliable.[/quote]
You can then deduct that from the realm right?You can't deduct gold from a realm. You an only deduct gold from characters. Doing that would entail removing gold from players who haven't done anything wrong. We don't punish players who haven't done anything wrong.
5000 gold
How does taking 5000 gold out of circulation sound? Would that be OK? Because that's the amount they've got on them right now, that will vanish entirely when they autopause.
You can't deduct gold from a realm. You an only deduct gold from characters. Doing that would entail removing gold from players who haven't done anything wrong. We don't punish players who haven't done anything wrong.
In all honesty, I feel like this has been handled fairly well. It sucks that Aurvandil was suspected of cheating for so long and only now got caught, but a delicate hand takes time.