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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: cenrae on April 14, 2013, 02:49:31 AM
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So Ive been wondering Demyansk in the Farronite Republic has a pretty nice special forces center, or at least I think so. Whos got something better?
Maddening Gladiators, Special Forces, 95 training, 95 / 70
Serrated Ballistae, Special Forces, 70 training, 90 / 80
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D'Hara's out. I guess Rynn better not ever piss his wife off...
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Aestian Arbalests (Special Force) Training (70) Weapon/Armour (95-4 / 85) Size (3)
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D'Hara's out. I guess Rynn better not ever piss his wife off...
We might not have the best/most are pretty average but I think we do have 1 or 2 good ones that could at least be mentioned.
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We might not have the best/most are pretty average but I think we do have 1 or 2 good ones that could at least be mentioned.
Paisly used to have a nice SF centre, even though my memory overglorified it.
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Swordsmen of the Stars Infantry 40 80 / 70
Wrath of the Maddening Star Cavalry 40 80 / 60
Short Bows of the Bloodstars Archers 35 80 / 55
Axemen of Kabrinskia Infantry 55 80 / 50
All from Golden Farrow. All with the same weapon level. Coincidence? I think not.
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Aestian Arbalests (Special Force) Training (70) Weapon/Armour (95-4 / 85) Size (3)
Those are some nice ranged troops!
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Gastonian Heavy Cavalry Cavalry 60 80 / 70
The Novan Guard Special Forces 70 95 / 80
Silver Faseas Archers 50 80 / 60
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D'Hara's out. I guess Rynn better not ever piss his wife off...
Better start taking the trash out.
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When we were marching around the Candiels Penninsula, we discovered that Aurvandil has high quality Infantry and SF centers in just about every province (with a couple exceptions).
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When we were marching around the Candiels Penninsula, we discovered that Aurvandil has high quality Infantry and SF centers in just about every province (with a couple exceptions).
And when Karibash said send forces to scouted regions to burn down their RCs, people rolled their eyes... oh well.
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Aurvandil:
Bickerstaff Brigade 50 95/70 SF
Chevaleresque Auriflamme 65 85/60 SF
Soldats De Premiere Ligne 55 70/90 SF
Magravine's Marines 60 90/90 inf- this is the most used RC in the whole realm by farrrrr
and we have quite a few other good inf RCs but only sub-par archers and horrid cav. Oh how I want to get some good cav.
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Aurvandil:
Bickerstaff Brigade 50 95/70 SF
Chevaleresque Auriflamme 65 85/60 SF
Soldats De Premiere Ligne 55 70/90 SF
Magravine's Marines 60 90/90 inf- this is the most used RC in the whole realm by farrrrr
and we have quite a few other good inf RCs but only sub-par archers and horrid cav. Oh how I want to get some good cav.
Wow.
Those are nice SF, simply because of their relatively low training for SF. Makes'em cheaper to buy, but if you hold onto them for a long time, they'll get as strong as other SF. I am jealous.
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The thing is, the majority of Aurvandil doesn't use SF because of that awesome inf center. Are their any advantages of an equal CS SF unit Vs. an inf unit?
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The thing is, the majority of Aurvandil doesn't use SF because of that awesome inf center. Are their any advantages of an equal CS SF unit Vs. an inf unit?
No there's nothing :-X
actually though, SF units each have their own secret ability (some of the time? all the time? not sure)
for example there's a ranged SF centre in Talerium in Atamara that is equivalent to an archery unit while ranged and an infantry unit in hand to hand, but if they fire from 1 line away they routinely do 1000+ hits. absolutely incredible early in battle, i roleplay that as hurling greek fire/wildfire if you're a game of thrones fan. problem is you have to experiment to find out what their ability is, i'm waiting to see a cavalryesque SF centre and to shake in fear at the hits they land.
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high-value infantry units are nice, however, because you can recruit a whole lot more of them than you could recruit in special forces. They also are drafted easier.
A 50 95/95 Inf center is much more useful than a 50 95/95 SF centre, imo. Of course, having both is awesome too.
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Are their any advantages of an equal CS SF unit Vs. an inf unit?
Well, Alanna keeps a ~50-man SF unit, which is now around 1200 CS, because to get that much CS from an infantry unit, she'd need 100+ men. As she only gains 5 hours per turn, this makes a big difference in her ability to actually get anywhere.
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WOW i can see why aurvandil would use infantry if you could get your hands on those guys...
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And when Karibash said send forces to scouted regions to burn down their RCs, people rolled their eyes... oh well.
Not really. We tried to do exactly this when we marched down the Penninsula. Problem was we have a huge Aurvandil army on our tail, so we couldn't spend more than a turn or two in a region, and we didn't have the Noble mass to knock out the RC's in that amount of time AND preserve hours to move on to the next region to stay out of striking range of the Aurvandil army.
Ultimately, we got bottle necked in, tried to shoot a gap to get out, and then got crushed (thought we expected that would happen when we went down there).
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The SF/Inf/Archer thing is mainly just one of cost and utility. SF cost a tonne up front, but are cheap as cheaps in weekly payment. Inf/Archers don't cost that much upfront, but often cost 2-3x as much per week. They do have the advantage in takeovers and civil work though (AFAIK), just due to the number of bodies working.
#normal_troops*0.18*other stuff compared to #SF_troops*0.18*1.75*other stuff sounds pricey for the SF, but it evens out nicely due to having about 1/3rd as many of them.
As an example, I had a unit of 95 archers that would cost me about 130 gold per week for upkeep, rated at around 1200CS at full strength.
I now have (or had) a unit of 33 ranged special forces that costs around 50 gold per week of upkeep, with an estimated strength of 1000-1100 at full strength.
SF's are awesome when on campaign, just due to the time you can keep them paid outside your borders, even on mercenary orders. They are a little faster as well. But when they whiff or get slaughtered, god they cost a lot to get back.
As a side note, those Aestian Arbalests aren't quite as good as I hoped. Of course, I went in with no captain, no banners and a unit cohesion of 24% fresh out of recruitment. Most units will run in that scenario. I really hope they get double-shot at close range, or infantry-archers. I've got an idea that the chance of special ability use is tied to training and unit cohesion, but I could be wrong. There's also some evidence that magic items can have abilities (I had a shield that would rip through undead every once in a while, giving a double-shot with my old normal archers. I really should get that back some time).
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Ranged SF units aren't good if they haven't trained well. Also you need to think about weather as well. When there is no wind, they will be quite deadly.
My 75-4/75 SF unit did 1103 hits per round on average during the battle of Oberndorf. Did that for 9 rounds.
No captain, 90 training 100 cohesion, strong wind (which lowered my unit's hits actually)
Oh, forgot. 82 men and about 1760 CS
If you really want to know how they performed, look at this link.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lapallanch_Family/Zakilevo/Epic_Battle_of_Oberndorf (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lapallanch_Family/Zakilevo/Epic_Battle_of_Oberndorf)
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OK a few things here...
That high a combination of training/EQ/Range are not all that common.
Being able to buy, pay for, and lead 82 SF is not all that common.
Getting consistent results with SF is not all that common. (You only got 1100 with 82 SF? My 29 SF got 800 hits.)
In short: These results are not typical. YMMV.
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OK a few things here...
That high a combination of training/EQ/Range are not all that common.
Being able to buy, pay for, and lead 82 SF is not all that common.
Getting consistent results with SF is not all that common. (You only got 1100 with 82 SF? My 29 SF got 800 hits.)
In short: These results are not typical. YMMV.
What is your SF stats Rob? And the weather wasn't so great for my ranged SF. I've seen a 500 CS archers(yes... not ranged SF) do 1k on a calm day.
Also, 1100 hits is on average. They actually did 1870 in one of the rounds.
+ smaller SFs are actually more efficient than bigger SF units I think. They still hit really hard in small numbers. Don't need to have as many SFs as I did. But one thing good about them is you do not need to command 200 infantry for the same result. It takes eternity to fix damaged equipment when you command 200 of them sigh...
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Can't remember what continent it was on, but I saw a SF center with ranged 5 troops, and weapons/armor over 80.
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The SF/Inf/Archer thing is mainly just one of cost and utility. SF cost a tonne up front, but are cheap as cheaps in weekly payment. Inf/Archers don't cost that much upfront, but often cost 2-3x as much per week. They do have the advantage in takeovers and civil work though (AFAIK), just due to the number of bodies working.
#normal_troops*0.18*other stuff compared to #SF_troops*0.18*1.75*other stuff sounds pricey for the SF, but it evens out nicely due to having about 1/3rd as many of them.
Also, don't forget repair times. With 165 infantry, it takes an entire turn to repair 10% armour. And move times. Bigger units take longer :/
These are pretty good at shredding rogues:
Mixed Infantry 55 85 / 55 (quite unusual to see good Mixed infantry)
And these aren't too bad:
Emerald Sabres Infantry 60 90 / 70
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I believe the stats for my old archer unit were:
The Golden Arrows
Archers 55 training, 75-4/85
A nice, cheap defensive unit with plenty of room to grow over time. Ended up taking on mixed groups of undead and monsters regularly without a worry, and took some shifting in real combat as well (for an archer unit anyway).. With a good captain and some training, they became pretty fearsome, plus they could do civil work at pretty amazing rates.
Good to know about the SF ranged unit usability. I think I was throwing out 580 odd hits with mine at 33 men, so they'll get a heap better as they gain a bit of experience. It was a pretty screwy first test-run, with infantry mucking up everything (I may have lost less if the infantry hadn't even been there), but I'm glad that they should get better. Would still love a range 5 unit one day, just so I can stand in the rear line and pepper away at them from turn 1 (or from the rearguard in a lot of massed battles).
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Would still love a range 5 unit one day, just so I can stand in the rear line and pepper away at them from turn 1 (or from the rearguard in a lot of massed battles).
You would only be shooting at the enemy archers though, because to fire into the melee you need to be one row away :( But would still be cool 8)
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No there's nothing :-X
actually though, SF units each have their own secret ability (some of the time? all the time? not sure)
for example there's a ranged SF centre in Talerium in Atamara that is equivalent to an archery unit while ranged and an infantry unit in hand to hand, but if they fire from 1 line away they routinely do 1000+ hits. absolutely incredible early in battle, i roleplay that as hurling greek fire/wildfire if you're a game of thrones fan. problem is you have to experiment to find out what their ability is, i'm waiting to see a cavalryesque SF centre and to shake in fear at the hits they land.
I almost got my hands on the magic scroll that does that. Scroll of Steeds? Damn that would have been a suprise with my old archery unit. Instant 95 strong shock force for one battle. On the basis that "magic isn't banned if it kicks arse".
Has there ever been a comprehensive list of special abilities worked out? Or even a not so comprehensive one? My old shield "Strong Shield against Undead" did pretty much what it said on the label. Are SF special abilities this specific (only vs certain troop types, etc)?
ps. If Aura thought people some people hated them before, it's now a race between any of her enemies to capture that Inf centre.
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Unique weapons have no special abilities other than boosting Prestige, with the exception on some rare items that grant skill bonuses. These are explicitly listed for the item while it is in your possession. They have no additional mystical or magical powers, or hidden abilities.
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Fair enough. Although I'm sure I've seen a double-shot only against undead with that shield. Can such things happen due to high training and cohesion? Leadership of the character isn't too high, so it couldn't have been that.
That's two back-to-back shots in one turn with a normal archer unit, not simply a high number of hits. Maybe my memory is horribly flawed (this is more likely). I assumed it was the shield (I'd not noticed it before), but it may have just been a lucky hit-roll that I remembered as a double-shot.
If magic items can't get special abilities, then I'll have to re-donate and put it in as a feature request.
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Ranged units can shoot and melee in the same turn. Is what what you saw?
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I will be happy to say that my most infamous (or rather, most typical) messages are sent when I'm slightly inebriated. I will happily say that I may have misread the battle-report, even if I was harping on about small unit tactics against monsters and undead at the time.
If anyone keeps a record of these things, it was when Sha'shanti was kicking all the beasts/risen in the western empire of Luria about 2 months ago. I'm sure there was a double shot or two against undead.
Yes, I'm aware of shooting and combat. It seems to happen every second battle or so whilst on home defence. Because we're really good like that in Luria. Do any Lurian's have any scribe notes of Sha blowing her own trumpet? It was just before Hendrick blew it for her instead.....
Anyway, way off topic. Could've sworn there was one or two of them. I blame being Australian. :)
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Still, to see Tom giggle feverishly, completey blow my theory out of the water, then make us wonder why there's things like "against Undead" and "of Daemon-slaying" will just make the game more fun.
Never-the-less, if you are a noble, then for crying out loud, repair that item. Even if it does have an Engrish name on it. I got that shield at +4 presitge value, the last I saw it, it was +6 or +7. Repair them, and they'll serve you well. Even if you do need to pay off the commoners.
Damn blind Queen, she's got my beat-stick shield still. Probably. Bugger.
:back to the normal "Who has the best recruitment centres thread: :)
Edit:
Ps. I doubt things like magic items are limited to things like combat. I think it may have to do with the noble involved and the strength of the item. Thing's like "of Dreams" may do little in a Knight's hand, but a lot in a Duke's. Prosperous Belt of Soldiers? Definitely grab it. I bet there's an entire raft of things we'll never know about on Dwilight, or why they happened, but you can probably be odds-on correct that we nobles did it. Luria Nova hasn't had an decent undead breakout in ages, but we've got a fur-trade from our monsters. Thanks to our horrible, horrible items.
I may be wrong, but it's a nice theory. It gives our lands flavour. Tasty monsters sprinkled with kick-arse flavour in the case of Luria.
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I think this thread has served its purpose. Someone should lock this thread so we move on.
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Naked Bloodmoon Berserkers 45% training 60 weapons 70 armour. I have no idea why naked guys would have such good armour , I guess its the bloodmoon instilled berserk rage?
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Naked Bloodmoon Berserkers 45% training 60 weapons 70 armour. I have no idea why naked guys would have such good armour , I guess its the bloodmoon instilled berserk rage?
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/2/25/129116353614762165.jpg)
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Ah, the good ol' days.
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That is so awesome... Basically how I imagine everyone in D'Hara dresses, even the men.
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Gotta hold up them moobs, eh?
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Any new good ones?
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Royal Ravens SF centre in Nifelhold 95/100 equipment, 100 training, 5 range. Thats the very best I have seen.
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That is definitely the current best ranged SF.
Best Cavalry is in Nothoi with 100 100/100. Scored 1600 hits with just 15 of them against undead.
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Askileon just got a perfect RC people. I think we can finally lock this thread.
A recruitment center has been constructed within Askileon. The center offers special forces recruits, with 2 volunteers signing up immediately. They have a training of 100%, weapons quality of 100%, and armour quality of 100%. Their range is 5 rows.
Party is over. Time to go home. 8)