BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: loren on April 15, 2011, 02:22:17 AM
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I'd personally like to be able to simply hand some of my golds over to a noble in the same region that I'm in. I can think of several ways a Lord could do it easily in their home region with guilds and other similar work arounds.
(It's also a minor issue that you can't give golds as bonds in cities to other nobles from other realms. Yes no modern banking, but a sack of gold is a sack of gold no?)
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Ah...Loren, are you trying to make a really lame joke here?
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I still think it's silly. =) I mean really, if someone travels all that distance and coordinates with the other guy then yea, hand him whatever gold you want no? Bankers can take your golds and there is no 'cashing' fee.
I'm just being grumbly about not being able to do something I want to, maybe surrounding a rebellion maybe not =)
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Sir A: Hi Sir B. Need gold? I have 100 coins on me right now, in this box, which I am holding in front of you right now, which clearly has no lock on it, and is already open, and which contains the gold coins shining right in front of your face. If you reached for them you could even grab a few.
Sir B: May I?
Sir A: Certainly. *Somehow it is not possible. How that makes sense is up to your imagination.*
Yeah, it does sound kind of ridiculous as far as realism goes, huh? But balance is balance... :)
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I've always rationalized the need for banks in that it would be unseemly for nobles to pass currency to each other like commoners buying bread in the square. Nobles use official bank couriers when dealing with each other. For all the paraphernalia our characters buy with gold, they buy it from peasants, so the fact that they're paying at all is more like charity which is totally fine, if not beneficial, for other people to see. I'm sure you can poke holes in that reasoning, but it keeps my happy little BM-world afloat.
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I would like to see this, but maybe put a chance of a prestige or honor hit, which the odds of that occurring depending on a bunch of factors:
same realm?
same duchy?
same region?
liege lord?
money from Banker?
money to priest/elder?
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This is a frequently rejected request.
The reason is gameplay balance and fun. With gold passing from noble to noble, it would be 24 hours tops until a realm has designated "gold couriers" whose job it is to make sure the frontline troops can stay in the field much longer by supplying them with gold. And I fear newbies would be the first to be pushed into that role.
It is not going to happen. I don't care what good arguments from realism or bla anyone can provide.
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This is a frequently rejected request.
The reason is gameplay balance and fun. With gold passing from noble to noble, it would be 24 hours tops until a realm has designated "gold couriers" whose job it is to make sure the frontline troops can stay in the field much longer by supplying them with gold. And I fear newbies would be the first to be pushed into that role.
It is not going to happen. I don't care what good arguments from realism or bla anyone can provide.
While I agree that it is not a wanted change, I must wonder whether in fact new players would be used for it. After all, large sums of gold would be involved. Surely wise people would use nobles that could be trusted?
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While I agree that it is not a wanted change, I must wonder whether in fact new players would be used for it. After all, large sums of gold would be involved. Surely wise people would use nobles that could be trusted?
Either way it would destroy the part of the balance currently served by needing to return to a city to cash bonds. It isn't really important who serves as the gold carriers, though the risk of giving new players something that boring to to exists.
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While I agree that it is not a wanted change, I must wonder whether in fact new players would be used for it. After all, large sums of gold would be involved. Surely wise people would use nobles that could be trusted?
They wouldn't be given large sums, but be required to make constant trips with small sums. Which is exactly what will suck for them.
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Could make it so only the Banker could do it, Tom. Gives them something to actually do with money, limits who can do it, gives enemies a known target for warfare, etc.
What you COULD possibly do to limit unbalancing issues is give nobles the option to trade their bonds with the Banker (who would be the kingdom's official issuer of such things anyway) for gold. However, the Banker would need to have that gold in his own inventory at the time. Nobles give the Banker their bonds, the Banker gives the nobles his own gold as payment, much like the bank element as-is.
Gives infiltrators a target to assassinate/disable to hinder enemy campaigns as well as realm functions and gives enemy troops a target to arrest so as to take his stores of gold.
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Could make it so only the Banker could do it, Tom. Gives them something to actually do with money, limits who can do it, gives enemies a known target for warfare, etc.
What you COULD possibly do to limit unbalancing issues is give nobles the option to trade their bonds with the Banker (who would be the kingdom's official issuer of such things anyway) for gold. However, the Banker would need to have that gold in his own inventory at the time. Nobles give the Banker their bonds, the Banker gives the nobles his own gold as payment, much like the bank element as-is.
Gives infiltrators a target to assassinate/disable to hinder enemy campaigns as well as realm functions and gives enemy troops a target to arrest so as to take his stores of gold.
That is an interesting option. Might need a little more fleshing out because right now the banker would be inactive for the transfer, so this would not be something the banker does, but something that is being done to him. But if we make it a "he must accept on his turn" option, like oaths or item trades, that could work.
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That could just be a slight modification to the item/scroll system. Replace identity of the sender object with bonds, set an automatic equivalent price in gold.
But something about this that might need to become addressed is the possibility that bankers will turn by and large into action bankers, and be in the frontlines exchanging gold for bonds regularly during wartime. My impression of a banker is that of fat greedy coward, and while that archetype could exist if this feature were implemented, I get the feeling that a realm engaged in a long-distance campaign would probably protest out any such banker in favor of Action Banker!.
After all, that guy has a lot of responsibility to keep forces abroad for longer, and one of the most limiting factors that prevents it is not the morale drop (can be fixed with mercenary and entertainment in allied regions) or equipment damage (also can be repaired by allied smiths), but gold, which can't be exchanged for bonds in allied cities. So finally we get the answer to our troubles, go Action Banker!! He'll be kind of like the less potentially popular action trader who breaks sieges.
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Artemesia, you're failing to factor in a question: How did the banker get all the gold to begin with? It has to come from somewhere, be it wealth taxes, nobles turning it over before they leave on a campaign, etc.
And yes, there could be the "action banker" scenario. But when bankers are frequently targeted by assassins or enemy patrols (their gold possibly being taken when thrown into an enemy dungeon), how willing will these far flung armies be to see that wealth suddenly vanish?
It simply gives us all another tactical option. Sure, it can extend a campaign, but it won't make it indefinite.
If this was added though, I'd suggest giving infiltrators an option to rob bankers, similar to the current assassination mechanic. Perhaps give the Banker an option for how heavily he'd resist, much like the current dueling options, and if he fights and loses, he may not only be injured, but lose X amount of gold.
There are many scenarios I can imagine if this happens, mind you. Could you see a banker waiting in an allied city for the army to report in for a quick gold trade, only to be stabbed and robbed by an unknown assailant? What if it happens repeatedly? How long would that nation remain an ally before suspicions tear the alliance apart?
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I believe that the question about robbing gold from anyone who wasn't already imprisoned was something that had been rejected in the past several times. Even if it is the banker, giving infiltrators that option will only create more problems than it would solve. For one, then that means the realm itself might start having some greedy infiltrators trying to get lots of gold without being detected from their own banker. As well, that could make the position of banker even more undesirable.
I don't really care much about shifting towards an action banker style for the position, as people would no doubt understand what they're getting into when running for the position. If it's appointed, well, hopefully the ruler knows what he's doing. However, there will be complaints and I am quite confident in predicting that there will be at least one realm that makes a ruckus about how the banker position would become a gold-transfer mule position.
As for obtaining gold, in any realm that's not in its infancy, or undergoing active repair, the banker could potentially obtain a really large amount in short order by altering realm shares, doing some covert stuff, and whatever else. It's probably not that hard, and I do believe there's even a "tradition" of sorts of shrewd bankers swimming in gold in almost every established realm. In short, for bankers of realms worth anything, gold is by no means hard to come by. Whether that means they can really finance an entire army is another question.
I think that while this option has the potential to bring something back to the banker position that was lost when realmwide food moving was taken away from it, there has to be some sort of restriction on just how often and how many nobles the banker can handle. Something like the militia assigning by generals could be used as a model. Don't let the banker keep handing it out all the time, or to everyone. Maybe give one or two, and then force him to recharge or something.
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I think that while this option has the potential to bring something back to the banker position that was lost when realmwide food moving was taken away from it, there has to be some sort of restriction on just how often and how many nobles the banker can handle. Something like the militia assigning by generals could be used as a model. Don't let the banker keep handing it out all the time, or to everyone. Maybe give one or two, and then force him to recharge or something.
We have hours in the game. How about each transaction takes 1-2 hours? If the banker is traveling with an active army that eats up mobility really quickly. If he's at an allied city waiting for the army..well, it'd still take a few days to hand out to everyone. Even then he'd have to be carrying a thousand or two in gold and that's a huge risk for most realms finances no matter how you look at it.
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I like the risk/reward idea, there should definitely be a risk involved. Problem is that right now there isn't, if you play it smart and stay out of enemy regions - you just can't lose the gold.
But, that could be fixed with a new infiltrator option: Abduction. Like assassination, and with a similar bad chance for success, it could throw the target into your realm's dungeon, where gold can be stolen.
And yes, handing out gold should take an hour, just to limit it a bit.
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I like this idea, gives the Banker something more than just paperwork to do. ;)
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Hellz yeah!
And it would require the realm to trust the banker managing all that gold ...
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To be clear, my request was for transferring golds to nobles from different realms, not within. How else am I supposed to pay off my spies, or my war instigators? *grin*
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You go to their capital and suffer a 50 gold charge upfront...And likely give away your secrecy.
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To be clear, my request was for transferring golds to nobles from different realms, not within. How else am I supposed to pay off my spies, or my war instigators? *grin*
Or use guilds, religions and secret societies like the rest of us
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http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,511.0.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,511.0.html)
I guess I should have posted this here...oh well.
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Interesting...