BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Ironsides on April 15, 2011, 08:54:12 AM
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Its one of my most favourite things about the whole game (in case you aren't aware my character is an active Dean of History). How come no one else sees it/uses it for the potential it has? Outside of a few once-in-a-whiles the University is sadly quiet. Military Studies or Arts alone I figured would be competitive.
What do you think, team?
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I'd love to contribute more to DwiUni and to the Wiki in general but my problem is that my english is so poor it takes me a lot of time to write down just some lines . If I was english mother tongue I'd be more prolific for sure.
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I've never heard of the Dwilight University. Perhaps you could enlighten me about it?
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I do my share for the history feeding info to bowie, is there anything better than that? :p
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Dwilight University is a historical/intellectual institution on Dwilight that records the various historical events, cultures, and realms. They do their best to be as historically accurate as possible while maintaining an objective viewpoint on the matter they are writing on.
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I was quite surprised to see that it had so many members. I did not expect it to have more than 10. The boards should be updated to reflect the fact that it is no longer "starting up".
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My IC opinion: Dwilight University is a pseudo-intellectual institution founded in Springdale by anti-SA Torenist zealots. It is now used mostly by Bowie Ironsides as a front to gather information to continue his anti-SA propaganda, and to disseminate information designed to make SA look bad.
:D
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There are SA members in Dwi Uni. They make up the majority I believe.
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My IC opinion: Dwilight University is a pseudo-intellectual institution founded in Springdale by anti-SA Torenist zealots. It is now used mostly by Bowie Ironsides as a front to gather information to continue his anti-SA propaganda, and to disseminate information designed to make SA look bad.
:D
Your character should check out who the founder is... it wasn't Sejieda but Sammael. The former is now a Light in the church.
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It was founded by Sammael /for/ Sejieda. His taint still corrupts the institution.
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Oh, I know that. My character is a member of the guild. But with Sejieda and Bowie being prominent members, at least as viewed from the outside, the University's reputation has been permanently tarnished.
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My IC opinion: Dwilight University is a pseudo-intellectual institution founded in Springdale by anti-SA Torenist zealots. It is now used mostly by Bowie Ironsides as a front to gather information to continue his anti-SA propaganda, and to disseminate information designed to make SA look bad.
:D
Pasha made an alternative chronology of the Aquilegion Civil War that eliminated Bowie's bias, I happily included it in my work. Plus, just because Bowie is anti-SA and loving it doesn't mean he is right! He doesn't own the University or control any of it, you have just as much to contribute as him. Challenge him, write counter-arguments etc. The University is secular, and above realm/political/religious affiliations. At least that is how I view it. It should be a place to debate and discuss, like an IC forum.
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Oh, I know that. My character is a member of the guild. But with Sejieda and Bowie being prominent members, at least as viewed from the outside, the University's reputation has been permanently tarnished.
There is no reason your character can't become a Dean. I hope to have a diverse cast of elders in the university.
Basically, what this article is about is to discuss and shape the University to what it should be instead of how it is now. I wish more contributed their own original works be it History, Geography (like all the awesome maps) etc, and to make it something that is shared by all of Dwilight. Ideas can exchange, contacts across the continent could be made, and characters can find another element to their lives outside of the routine realm business.
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The University is secular,
Ergo, anti-SA.
For theocrats, neutrality is hostility.
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Hmm, Mathurin passed a University guildhouse recently. Perhaps he should sign up to see what they've got in their library.
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They reportedly have the only copies of the only heretical works as declared by SA.
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I just joined. Forgot to PM Ironsides back.. he jumped on me so instantly :-X
It's definitely a good place to expand my social side.
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lol, you mean you actually got a message on joining? ??? :o ;)
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I frequently read the University's articles on the Wiki ;D
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There hasn't been much recent activity really. Most of the time you sit and wait for Bowie to send out his next "historical" article.
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That is what I want to address in this post. A) How come no one participates in the many available departments, all different from the others and all open to everyone. B) If everyone claims they want unique culture and identity then how come they aren't participating in something I think is a catalyst to Dwilight wide originality. History is a major part of a nations identity. Being aware that other realms have a history should compel one to "be in the game too." The Dwilight University is a place to mesh that (and that is just one example).
Besides the characters involved, what do you think the university could do differently, or do in general that you would like it to?
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That is what I want to address in this post. A) How come no one participates in the many available departments, all different from the others and all open to everyone. B) If everyone claims they want unique culture and identity then how come they aren't participating in something I think is a catalyst to Dwilight wide originality. History is a major part of a nations identity. Being aware that other realms have a history should compel one to "be in the game too." The Dwilight University is a place to mesh that (and that is just one example).
Besides the characters involved, what do you think the university could do differently, or do in general that you would like it to?
Probably a lack of time and/or inspiration. In my experience it takes a fair bit of time that to produce an article of this type. In my case, where I am struggling to find the time to even right a RP once or twice a week, things like articles are at the bottom of my to-do list when I have time for BM activities.
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Same here, although I will have more time to do things during the summer before I start college.
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It doesn't have to be a thesis, just a paragraph about some minor incident etc, add it to the library and eventually if enough people add paragraphs you have a functional library.
The only reason I haven't joined is because its so drat far away. Where is the closest one to Asylon?
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There doesnt seem to be many southern guild houses.. Am guessing a Lurian would have to travel north past the Divide Mountains to get to a guild house?
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Nearest campuses in the Occidens are Dunnbrook and Chesney, as for Toprak Minors..., hmm, Ashrak? I tried to make a deal to get one built down there but it didn't go through...I lost Flowrestown before I could uphold my end of the bargain. Too bad they didn't just build one anyway. Looks like those students will have to do a bit of leg work. Maybe something can be arranged between the University and any Lurian Lord willing to make the trip?
It doesn't have to be a thesis, just a paragraph about some minor incident etc, add it to the library and eventually if enough people add paragraphs you have a functional library.
And for those interested in creative writing we offer space in the Illiterati, the university's own fiction journal :)
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There doesnt seem to be many southern guild houses.. Am guessing a Lurian would have to travel north past the Divide Mountains to get to a guild house?
Ashrak.
For me to join, I had to travel from Terran... to Ashrak. Join, return, build. The guildhouse in Dunnbrook was built by a Caerwynian who traveled to Terran.
Honestly, I recommend a Lurian lord come to Chesney, in Terran. I have TONS of guilds you can join.
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That is what I want to address in this post. A) How come no one participates in the many available departments, all different from the others and all open to everyone.
My honest opinion? It's Bowie. The problem as I see it, is that Bowie has a huge personality that overshadows just about everything, and everyone, else in the guild. He's the most active, the loudest, and the most prolific contributor. Just about everything that comes out of the University seems to be, in one way or the other, connected with him. And Bowie is widely hated. Ergo, the University is widely hated. And when the most visible Dean of the University is sending out letters to foreign governments telling them he hopes they kick SA's ass, that's not going to win the University any love in the northern half of Dwilight.
I can only think of two members of the University off-hand. One is Bowie, and the other is Sejieda. Both people that would be perfectly happy if SA were to disappear today, if not sooner. Both were strong advocates of the University.
B) If everyone claims they want unique culture and identity then how come they aren't participating in something I think is a catalyst to Dwilight wide originality.
Perhaps you haven't demonstrated to people that the University can provide what they want? Or perhaps they don't want what you think they do.
Besides the characters involved, what do you think the university could do differently, or do in general that you would like it to?
You can't divorce the university from the personnel involved with it. Not in the kind of game we are playing. The people *are* the guild.
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That is what I want to address in this post. A) How come no one participates in the many available departments, all different from the others and all open to everyone. B) If everyone claims they want unique culture and identity then how come they aren't participating in something I think is a catalyst to Dwilight wide originality. History is a major part of a nations identity. Being aware that other realms have a history should compel one to "be in the game too." The Dwilight University is a place to mesh that (and that is just one example).
Besides the characters involved, what do you think the university could do differently, or do in general that you would like it to?
While I think some of what Indirik said is true, I don't think that Bowie doing less would necessarily inspire other people to do more.
I haven't contributed a ton largely due to time. But I may go from here to my long-standing Maroccidens project and work on it some.
What you need, frankly, is a high-ranking Astroist priest to hold the Dean of Theology position. Think about how medieval universities functioned. Uh-huh. That's right. Church backing. The Dwilight University essentially has official church backing from Triunism in Terran. You need SA.
Find a smart, active SA priest who will write a treatise or two but, more importantly, who wants to RP the university's theology department as a kind of "intelligentsia of the SA priesthood." Like monks or Jesuits or something.
Get a big SA priest on board in a high position, and you will have the necessary clout to counter the anti-SA reputation. And have the most important seat filled (Dean of Theology on Dwilight seems like a pretty big deal).
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Get a big SA priest on board in a high position, and you will have the necessary clout to counter the anti-SA reputation. And have the most important seat filled (Dean of Theology on Dwilight seems like a pretty big deal).
That is an excellent suggestion. I wouldn't necessarily say that it would have to be a priest. But a very highly influential, senior member of the faith would be an excellent move if the University were to correct their image. To expand and gain popularity and usage, they will have to play a bit of politics.
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Giving a SA priest such position you will affect the objectivity of the theological department.
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No matter who it is given to, the argument could be made that it will affect the objectivity of the department. For example, If you give it to a Torenist, they'll be biased against SA, as SA killed their faith. Since *everyone* follows some religion (and please don't try to claim that there's such a thing as an atheist on Dwilight, of all islands), their faith will affect their decisions and outlook.
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Dean by Committee. More than one person can be in an elder spot, and that could be seated by an authoritative figure from each religion on Dwliight.
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Offer a Dean slot to any religion that finances a guildhouse.
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I am on my way to join. Big bad SA member on his way to take over the university. 8)
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If everyone claims they want unique culture and identity then how come they aren't participating in something I think is a catalyst to Dwilight wide originality.
People want unique culture and identity, but many (most?) don't have the time, or don't have the inclination, or don't feel they have the ability to significantly contribute towards it.
It's up to those who do have the time, inclination and ability to shoulder the burden and create awesomeness! ;)
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Giving a SA priest such position you will affect the objectivity of the theological department.
Giving the position to anyone not in SA would affect the objectivity of the department. You need a theologian to follow the one true religion, or else it's not theology, it's just superstition.
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People want unique culture and identity, but many (most?) don't have the time, or don't have the inclination, or don't feel they have the ability to significantly contribute towards it.
It's up to those who do have the time, inclination and ability to shoulder the burden and create awesomeness! ;)
Looks like I'm the man for the job... 8)
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Giving the position to anyone not in SA would affect the objectivity of the department. You need a theologian to follow the one true religion, or else it's not theology, it's just superstition.
Then you wouldnt want to give it to anyone in SA since its just superstition at best ;)
Maybe a Theological Board rather than 'Dean' would be best. Allow no religion to hold the majority so only 1 member each on the board.
The only thing stopping me from taking such a journey is the damn Monster Invasions Waves that Lupa Lapu seems to attract - wish we would just abandon it to be honest. But I shall certainly journey north, I do want to visit the other realms and see what its like up there north of the Divides :D
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Giving the position to anyone not in SA would affect the objectivity of the department. You need a theologian to follow the one true religion, or else it's not theology, it's just superstition.
:o I almost have no words for that. Only the word 'arrogance' passes my mind. Haha..
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I'm part of the university and I'm one of the most dedicated fighters of SA :o
I also follow no religion or faith as it is part of my vow to serve as High Magistrate with an unbiased opinion on all religion in Caerwyn. ::)
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Even then it is Tom's opinion that no noble man or woman was an atheist. So even though you are not registered by a recognized religion, you still believe in a higher power/being.
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I can understand that many people are busy in real life and are not able to play the University as I hope they would, that is not what I am addressing. So far, however, it seems to me that the University has an image problem.
First, it should never be looked at as "Bowie's University" because he is not the sole authority. If for instance a "History of Sanguis Astroism" was submitted to his department he would never reject it just because he is the religion's opponent. He can't, he is the Dean of History, it would contradict his position. Sure in his work he injects his views but he has never done so to distort the facts and he has never ignored a challenge to his work. Anyone is free to submit an alternate history, as happened with the Chronology, and he will have to accept it. And Sejieda is rarely active, but even if he was I am sure he would agree with me on this point. We could never, in spite of ourselves, throttle the vitality of the University because of our own personal decisions. It is not a political institution, it is academic and social. That is why leaders from opposing realms are members, and can freely chat with each other without outside strings attached. Inside the University is secular (that is to say available to all members of any religion) and a free and open institution.
Regarding the Dean of Theology position, Pasha Blatkovechkin should have been promoted (and he applied several times, Bowie even vouched for him) because of his contributions to the department, not because he was an SA priest. The Theology department should be an academic field for all religions not a bell jar over the ones not pertinent to the Dean. Deanships should be given to the best regular contributors of a field. A Dean of Theology then is someone who examines, explores, challenges, analysis, experiences etc. religions of Dwilight. This position has to abide by the same point I made above. If the Dean of Theology accepted or rejected works based on her own policies and not the open spirit of the institution then she should not be the Dean. What they submit is their own, but what they allow submitted should depend on the quality (not content) of the work.
And, the University is not strictly for realm or political interaction spawning material, there is an Arts department (perhaps for avid writers/roleplayers), a political science department (for those who have ideas or experiences on how realms/elections/positions and more are handled), and other fields that are open to core roleplay source building, to wholly invented works, and to entertaining Dwilight focused material. I guess all of this depends on the time and commitment of the player, but I think it is rewarding if even you submit something small. Contributing to the game (and wiki) is a way of playing the game in my mind.
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Regarding the Dean of Theology position, Pasha Blatkovechkin should have been promoted (and he applied several times, Bowie even vouched for him) because of his contributions to the department, not because he was an SA priest. The Theology department should be an academic field for all religions not a bell jar over the ones not pertinent to the Dean. Deanships should be given to the best regular contributors of a field. A Dean of Theology then is someone who examines, explores, challenges, analysis, experiences etc. religions of Dwilight. This position has to abide by the same point I made above. If the Dean of Theology accepted or rejected works based on her own policies and not the open spirit of the institution then she should not be the Dean. What they submit is their own, but what they allow submitted should depend on the quality (not content) of the work.
That is stupid.
You have an academic institution on a continent with a huge, deeply RP-ed, well-financed, politically-powerful religion that geographically overlaps your university, and you want to make your Dean of Theology a dean of, what, sociology of religion? Comparative religion?
Hell no! Make it the Jesuit boot camp. Make it mandatory for priests over a certain rank to get a "Degree" from Dwilight University's Theology department.
You claim to have an OOC desire to create culture. Prove it. Use the big RP institution at your disposal (Dwilight University) in tandem with another big RP institution (Sanguis Astroism) to create synergies of RP.
In other words, make Mathurin Hossenfeffer your Dean of Theology. Or, actually, maybe Hireshmont II will have a little chat with Labell Enstance... (that way, Terran could still have a lock on the University, even as in Astroizes!)
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It might become true that a religion could dominate the department of theology, one thing could lead to another and bamo there is your idea in play. I argue though that it is a Dean not a Prophet. Their judgment is academic, not spiritual. This is not the University of Sanguis Astroism it is the Dwilight University. It can't be strictly one thing. That's what the actual religion is for. Let the temples and churches create their own education system if they want. Actually, that would make a hell of a great article for the Department, and this debate would have done well to originate in the University. (Ah ha!, there's the rub! We are doing in this thread exactly what we should be doing in the University!)
Culture can originate from things other than religion. I hoped the Illiterati would produce fictional works from various realms for us to enjoy. Like a story of a noble who lived in the Occidens battling the monsters, etc. It would give other players insight into those realms through the eyes of another character. A realm could become famous for its heroes and adventurers. Why not? The Keepers of Lore tried to do something like this but suffered from the same lack of contribution as the University is.
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I can understand that many people are busy in real life and are not able to play the University as I hope they would, that is not what I am addressing. So far, however, it seems to me that the University has an image problem.
First, it should never be looked at as "Bowie's University" because he is not the sole authority. If for instance a "History of Sanguis Astroism" was submitted to his department he would never reject it just because he is the religion's opponent. He can't, he is the Dean of History, it would contradict his position. Sure in his work he injects his views but he has never done so to distort the facts and he has never ignored a challenge to his work. Anyone is free to submit an alternate history, as happened with the Chronology, and he will have to accept it. And Sejieda is rarely active, but even if he was I am sure he would agree with me on this point. We could never, in spite of ourselves, throttle the vitality of the University because of our own personal decisions. It is not a political institution, it is academic and social. That is why leaders from opposing realms are members, and can freely chat with each other without outside strings attached. Inside the University is secular (that is to say available to all members of any religion) and a free and open institution.
Regarding the Dean of Theology position, Pasha Blatkovechkin should have been promoted (and he applied several times, Bowie even vouched for him) because of his contributions to the department, not because he was an SA priest. The Theology department should be an academic field for all religions not a bell jar over the ones not pertinent to the Dean. Deanships should be given to the best regular contributors of a field. A Dean of Theology then is someone who examines, explores, challenges, analysis, experiences etc. religions of Dwilight. This position has to abide by the same point I made above. If the Dean of Theology accepted or rejected works based on her own policies and not the open spirit of the institution then she should not be the Dean. What they submit is their own, but what they allow submitted should depend on the quality (not content) of the work.
And, the University is not strictly for realm or political interaction spawning material, there is an Arts department (perhaps for avid writers/roleplayers), a political science department (for those who have ideas or experiences on how realms/elections/positions and more are handled), and other fields that are open to core roleplay source building, to wholly invented works, and to entertaining Dwilight focused material. I guess all of this depends on the time and commitment of the player, but I think it is rewarding if even you submit something small. Contributing to the game (and wiki) is a way of playing the game in my mind.
The fact it is view as Bowie's University should be a indication of exactly what kind of esteem Bowie is held in by other characters. It matter little what you tell us OOC about how he won't do this or that. You will have to work IG to correct the IG views that characters hold of the institution.
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The fact it is view as Bowie's University should be a indication of exactly what kind of esteem Bowie is held in by other characters. It matter little what you tell us OOC about how he won't do this or that. You will have to work IG to correct the IG views that characters hold of the institution.
I fully agree with De-Legro. You can make all the OOC claims on the forum you want. But the forum isn't the game. You need to be doing all that in-game. Convincing people in the forum, then expecting them to change what they do IG, is a blatant violation of the spirit of the game.
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Culture can originate from things other than religion. I hoped the Illiterati would produce fictional works from various realms for us to enjoy. Like a story of a noble who lived in the Occidens battling the monsters, etc. It would give other players insight into those realms through the eyes of another character. A realm could become famous for its heroes and adventurers. Why not? The Keepers of Lore tried to do something like this but suffered from the same lack of contribution as the University is.
Because there is no reason to contribute. I have contributed the Occidens article because Hireshmont has political objectives that necessitate Occidentalism. It's political positioning. Many, maybe most, characters and objectives do not require such subtleties.
But Sanguis Astroism could. If it allows its theology department to become co-opted by SA, there will be a reason to contribute, as the University's Theology department becomes SA's intellectual wing. It is a reason to contribute that ties in to the game and other RPed institutions.
I don't really understand the downside here, unless you are suggesting that the University should be anti-SA. Medieval Universities are not secular, enlightened, liberal places for neutral assessment of information.
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I fully agree with De-Legro. You can make all the OOC claims on the forum you want. But the forum isn't the game. You need to be doing all that in-game. Convincing people in the forum, then expecting them to change what they do IG, is a blatant violation of the spirit of the game.
Well I started this discussion hoping to figure out what people thought of the University and why most aren't playing it. I guess I am directly the cause of that...? :-X Anyway, Bowie is what he is and does what he does and if no one bothers to challenge him its their own fault. What I thought was important was the activity of the University as a populated community not the fact that one of the only contributors was a push factor. I'm really not sure how that could be fixed, because then it would turn into me playing Bowie differently (which is the opposite effect of this post)
Because there is no reason to contribute. I have contributed the Occidens article because Hireshmont has political objectives that necessitate Occidentalism. It's political positioning. Many, maybe most, characters and objectives do not require such subtleties.
Excellent and hopefully one of the many reasons other players could have to play the University too.
But Sanguis Astroism could. If it allows its theology department to become co-opted by SA, there will be a reason to contribute, as the University's Theology department becomes SA's intellectual wing. It is a reason to contribute that ties in to the game and other RPed institutions.
I don't really understand the downside here, unless you are suggesting that the University should be anti-SA. Medieval Universities are not secular, enlightened, liberal places for neutral assessment of information.
Okay, I get how that would work but then what about nobles not SA? Would a VE priests be allowed to work for the Theology Department? Probably not, which removes the pan-Dwilight appeal of the University. Hence why I stress keeping the department and the whole guild neutral. It is fine for a realm to say only this type of religion may hold government positions, but in a guild that is not supposed to be realm specific it is not alright. I am not suggesting it is anti-SA, just not SA only.
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schola_Medica_Salernitana
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_university
Pretty sure they were secular to some degree, while religious in the theological department. Much of the science taught at these schools were based off either ancient Greek or Roman texts, or Arab teachings. Jewish academic texts were also included in the top school, if not in general.
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And yet in medieval Europe the Church could decide which books and texts were acceptable to be taught, so even when it appears secular, the Church was dictating the curriculum.
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If the school was being run by the church, yes.
"Universities were generally structured along three types, depending on who paid the teachers. The first type was in Bologna, where students hired and paid for the teachers. The second type was in Paris, where teachers were paid by the church. Oxford and Cambridgewere predominantly supported by the crown and the state, a fact which helped them survive the Dissolution of the Monasteries in 1538 and the subsequent removal of all the principal Catholic institutions in England."
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It matters not, since the Church simply placed the book on the banned list, and persecuted any who produced it, read it or taught from it as a heretic to the church. Although it is a bit later then the period generally accepted that BM takes place in Galileo was placed under house arrest by the church for his work Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, the book banned from being published in Catholic countries, and all his future work was also banned and all his previous work was also banned. He was also forced to publicly recant the theory.
You don't need to control the University when you have such control over the countries the University operates in.
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Sources. You need to prove this was case for all universities and not just those under the directly under the control of the church. I went through the trouble of looking it up, now it is your turn.
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"It was the potentially dangerous subject of theology that concerned the Church far more than natural philosophy and most examples of discipline relate to the former. These systems were essentially the internal disciplinary procedures of the universities and, as we have seen, the usual sanction was little more than having to recant the error and amend ones work to correct it. Matters would only usually leave the auspices of the university if there was an appeal or if the matter became notorious and widely known as, for example, in the case of the Amalricians of Paris where the teaching of a university theologian threatened to produce a heretical sec"
"As many academics were also members of the mendicant orders, even in institution not nominally run by the Church so they were also under the governance of their order and could face disciplinary proceedings from this direction. The most famous case of this is Roger Bacon who appears to have been imprisoned by his superiors in the Franciscans for not having his work vetted by them before publication"
"The most infamous agents of medieval church discipline, the inquisitors, do not appear to have had a major role in dealing with academics but could become involved in certain cases. Word that someone had been teaching heretical opinions could reach the ear of the local inquisitor who would investigate and, on finding the allegations to be true, get the teacher to admit and recant his error before handing down his penance. As the inquisitor was not part of the university it is likely that the case would already have acquired a degree of notoriety, perhaps due to public disputations or lectures, before he heard of it and having done so he would be obliged to act."
"The facts are set out in the condemnation of Cecco who was burnt at the stake in Florence on 15th December 1327 [NOTE]. Three years previously, he had been found guilty of “utterances against the Catholic faith”, by the inquisitor Lambertus of Cingulo in Bologna where Cecco was a professor, with the result that he was fined, had his books confiscated and was banned from teaching or practising astrology. Unfortunately, the condemnation does not tell us what the offending utterances were, although later authorities, such as the fifteenth century inquisitor, Franciscus Florentinus, mention that he had taught and written that Jesus lived and suffered the way he did because he was born under a special star which had also led the magi from the East [NOTE]. Contrary to what Franciscus insists, Cecco does not mention any such thing in his extant books (even those that were burnt with him) so his utterances were in all likelihood verbal and made in lectures. As Cecco was not more severely punished we can also assume he confessed to and repented of his errors. However, his was clearly a serious heresy as he did not get away with a simple recantation such as required of Blasius of Parma in 1396 when he was also convicted of “utterances against the Catholic faith” [NOTE]. Cecco left Bologna and made his way to Florence where he promptly flouted the inquisitor’s strictures and became court astrologer to Jacob of Brescia. This wilful disobedience immediately marked him out as a recalcitrant heretic and when he found himself before the Florentine inquisitor, Accursius, it is no surprise that the he was handed over to the secular arm. As burning was the expected fate of a re-offender the judicial machinery seems to be working as expected."
What you need to remember is the Catholic church was in many ways central to life in Europe, and that many secular powers relied on the Church in some way to maintain their power. The power to declare someone a heretic was indeed powerful, and it was expected that ALL Catholic Rulers and Lords would enforce Church rulings within their holdings, both in regards to heretical rulings and other less serious offenses. Obviously they interfered most in Universities that either taught Theology, or in area's the Church had a vested interest in such as astronomy.
Another factor to remember is that the thing that made them Universities in the modern sense rather then the studium generale (university) and universitas (corporation of students or teachers) that preceded them was the issue of a Papal Bull which rendered them autonomous and provided the mechanism by which anyone admitted to be a teacher in the recognised university had the right to teach everywhere without further examinations.
Finally there was the concept of Studium generale or a registered institution of international excellence by the Holy Roman Empire, and these were considered the most prestigious places of learning in Europe. This may be part of receiving the Papal Bull, I'm not 100% sure if you could be issued a Papal Bull yet not be a Studium generale. Both theological and secular universities were registered. I believe the Vatican still does confer this title on Universities, but I'm not sure anyone really cares anymore.
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Well I started this discussion hoping to figure out what people thought of the University and why most aren't playing it. I guess I am directly the cause of that...? :-X Anyway, Bowie is what he is and does what he does and if no one bothers to challenge him its their own fault. What I thought was important was the activity of the University as a populated community not the fact that one of the only contributors was a push factor. I'm really not sure how that could be fixed, because then it would turn into me playing Bowie differently (which is the opposite effect of this post)
I wouldn't suggest that you play your character IG any other way than makes sense for him IC. But that also means that some of the things you as a player might like to happen, may not happen IG. If you really want it to happen, though, perhaps Bowie needs to somehow realize what's going on himself, and figure out how to change it.
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If the school was being run by the church, yes.
"Universities were generally structured along three types, depending on who paid the teachers. The first type was in Bologna, where students hired and paid for the teachers. The second type was in Paris, where teachers were paid by the church. Oxford and Cambridgewere predominantly supported by the crown and the state, a fact which helped them survive the Dissolution of the Monasteries in 1538 and the subsequent removal of all the principal Catholic institutions in England."
And what type of degrees were primarily given?
Philosophy, Medicine, Divinity, and Law.
Philosophy is obviously in the hands of the Church. Divinity too. Law, especially at Bologna, was largely canon law.
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And what of us who do not subscribe to the idea's of Sanguis Astroism, or even those that subscribe to them being inherently evil?
Yes Sanguis Astroism is a very large religion by Dwilight standards, however it is also largely based in the north, then again everything is pretty much North by PeL standards ;).
What of us in the South? Are we to be denied the full possibilities of the Dwilight University because we in character and roleplay we could never subscribe to the idea's of Sanguis Astroism? If so then it stops being the Dwilight University and should be renamed the Sanguis Astroism University of Dwilight.
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Bowie's got no affiliations with SA, except possible enmity, yet he's apparently the History Department.
The Military Studies Department at some point was also not affiliated with SA, and I believe that was back when Jefferson Vita was doing that department. There's not much going on there right now.
The Theology Department has mostly been SA because that's the largest religion in the area where the University is most concentrated. Want to get heard? Put in the effort to be heard I guess.
The Arts Department isn't really SA, I think. Just a bunch of poetry or something.
The Humanities Department was also not really SA. I think it was about Unterstrom being run by the mob, and I think Bowie did something talking about how Sallowtown was...something.
The Arcana Department currently is only about Hericus Lefanis talking about how he chilled out with daimons in the past.
And I think that handles everything in the University. As you can see, it is not much affected by SA. In fact, one could even say it is not affected by much of anything recently.
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Yes Sanguis Astroism is a very large religion by Dwilight standards...
I'm pretty sure SA is the largest religion in the game. We blew past the previous religion records long, long ago. So I would say we are a large religion by BM standards. ;)
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And what of us who do not subscribe to the idea's of Sanguis Astroism, or even those that subscribe to them being inherently evil?
Yes Sanguis Astroism is a very large religion by Dwilight standards, however it is also largely based in the north, then again everything is pretty much North by PeL standards ;).
What of us in the South? Are we to be denied the full possibilities of the Dwilight University because we in character and roleplay we could never subscribe to the idea's of Sanguis Astroism? If so then it stops being the Dwilight University and should be renamed the Sanguis Astroism University of Dwilight.
Contribute to other departments.
Start competing university.
Convert to Sanguis Astroism.
Your CHARACTER would be denied the opportunity to engage with equity in theological discussions based on your RP. My character in the University is also fairly anti-SA.
However, ya'll in PeL are irrelevant anyways. To my knowledge, no Lurians have joined the University, so I'm unsure why your opinion would matter. Ironsides asked why people don't contribute: it's at least partly because he has succeeded in alienating the largest contiguous RP base in Dwilight, which also happens to control most of the University.
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I would love to join but I'm stuck in the south where there are no guilds.
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It probably takes about two weeks at most to go from even the southernmost point of Dwilight (Most likely Madina, but I don't know the actual coordinates) to the nearest DU guildhouse. That would be in...Chesney, maybe? Failing that sail over to D'Hara and hop up to Mimer. From there the rest of the northeast is open.
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Yes, Chesney.
And, while in Chesney, you can also join:
Visit the "Dwilight Trade Company" guildhouse
Visit the "Dwilight University" guildhouse
Visit the "Hunters of Dwilight" guildhouse
Visit the "Keepers of Lore" guildhouse
Visit the "Libidizedd Trading Company" guildhouse
Visit the "Path of the Sword" guildhouse
Visit the "Sanguis Astroism" temple
Visit the "The O'Deaghaidh Library" guildhouse
Visit the "Triunism" temple
Visit the "Véinsørmoot" guildhouse
Any of those.
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All of them. I'll be there in about a week. Don't even think about refusing my applications! ^_^
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I would love to join but I'm stuck in the south where there are no guilds.
I've tried to construct one in the Duchy of Giask, but failed because the Univeristy in Flowrestown was seemingly dissolved when I arrived in Aquilegia to sell them some food. So couldn't join th university back then.
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I am in Underroot on my way into Terran as we speak to join some of these guilds. Travel is really slow in winter.
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I've tried to construct one in the Duchy of Giask, but failed because the Univeristy in Flowrestown was seemingly dissolved when I arrived in Aquilegia to sell them some food. So couldn't join th university back then.
It's in Ashrak, now Flowrestown.
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It's in Ashrak, now Flowrestown.
Flowrestown - Built by Duke Vesuvis Adriddae (Student) in the autumn of Year 7 (July 29, 2009). Destroyed by Duke Caxias Flowres (Unaffiliated) in the winter of 10 YD (May 7, 2010).
And I had no time to travel to Ashrak after I visited Flowrestown. My region was being invaded by monsters and there came no military aid to liberate my region. I had to return to PeL, or loose my Lordship.
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Ah, well, there is also one in Ashrak.
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If you want to join another fun guild, myself and a few other high ranked nobles in Caerwyn are constructing an new system to trade unique items/repair them with adventurers. If enough adventurers join we could set up a roster of the best to worst :D
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If you want to join another fun guild, myself and a few other high ranked nobles in Caerwyn are constructing an new system to trade unique items/repair them with adventurers. If enough adventurers join we could set up a roster of the best to worst :D
Or you could join one of the guilds that already exist for this purpose.
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Or you could join one of the guilds that already exist for this purpose.
eewww yucky! but some of the other guilds are probably being controlled by a cabal of Sanguis Astroist reallife friends!
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If you want to join another fun guild, myself and a few other high ranked nobles in Caerwyn are constructing an new system to trade unique items/repair them with adventurers. If enough adventurers join we could set up a roster of the best to worst :D
Really?
I'll be sure to join it, and build a guildhouse in Chesney. Economies of scope, you see. They're pretty awesome.
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The Fissoa Verminators also offer repairs :) damn I didn't intend to advertise like this though.
Adventurer's guilds seem to be booming, though?
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Does anyone know where to find informations about the "The O'Deaghaidh Library" ?
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Does anyone know where to find informations about the "The O'Deaghaidh Library" ?
COntact its elders. Hireshmont, my character, is one of them.
Its a nearly-dead guild though.
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... how many of these kind of guilds are there?
joined one called "Sorun Society"... seems dead.
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... how many of these kind of guilds are there?
joined one called "Sorun Society"... seems dead.
Whoa, necromonposty much?
There are a few by the way. I'm probably in about 4 of them at the moment.
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only asked, seeing as the previous posts were a few days ago.
as for that guild joined... the elder just disappeared XD
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Yeah, I think Dhalgren was the necromancer, reviving a thread almost exactly a year dead.
When I saw the new post in it, I was reading through the pages a while before realising, "What the...that's April 2011!"
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Yeah, I think Dhalgren was the necromancer, reviving a thread almost exactly a year dead.
When I saw the new post in it, I was reading through the pages a while before realising, "What the...that's April 2011!"
Same here. I was reading the dates and was like is there something wrong because that says it was posted tomorrow? Then I saw that it was 2011 and thought the exact same thing.
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Pardon me for employing the dark arts of necromancy and for conjuring the spirits of the dead - wanted to avoid opening a new tread for a small quick question.
bad forum etiquette?
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bad forum etiquette?
I don't think any would say it was a bad thing just surprised us with you going to post in a year old thread.