BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: bluexmas on October 18, 2013, 06:34:59 PM
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I've been an on and off battlemaster player for 3 years now, and have some thoughts I'd like to share about the current state of the game as well as my experiences as a player. As a way of bolstering my credibility about the playing experience I'd like to note that my time has been spent on Dwilight, Atamarra, FEI, and BT, and that at one time, I was the ruler of both Toupellon (aww) and Talerium. I've held every council position and military position, and played every class except for trader, as well as started a new religion. I've been lucky enough to experience a wide array of the politics, battle, frustration, and joy possible in this game.
I love battlemaster as a game and an idea, and have dedicated countless hours to it. One of my breaks from the game came from getting too involved - I bit off more than I could chew when I was ruling two realms at the same time.
I wasn't around for the "good-old-days" that so many posters seem to harken back to, but the times I've played have been plenty good-enough. I suspect that our shrinking player base is actually an opportunity for the game. Wouldn't it make more sense to condense players and characters into fewer environments so that the RPing, battle, and intrigue that we love becomes robust again? Who cares if we lose two continents if the environment drastically improves. I think that would create the kind of robust world that new players would find enjoyable again. Perhaps we need to shrink to start a new cycle of growth. I suspect that like many organizations and institutions BM grew at a slightly unsustainable level; there's no shame in realizing that and taking steps to reframe the game at an appropriate density.
The new player experience, despite years of talking about it, still falls short of being hospitable or engaging. I've encouraged several real life friends to try out BM and none of them has ever stuck around more than a few weeks. What grabbed me about the game immediately when I made my first knight was the sense of being part of something bigger than myself. That gave me both excitement and ambition, because I could see characters that wielded real power in the game and I wanted to prove that I could do that too. In that vein, I loved the old +/- system for knights because I feel it encouraged a Lord to take responsibility as a mentor for knights, and to be able to concretely reward their behavior, service, and loyalty. My mentors set goals for my knights to attain, and then would give me that affirmation when I had completed them. I believe that resizing the game would help to encourage the development of these kinds of personal relationships again, and encourage people into the model of mentor/protege that I think is the best way to build up new players to a level where they can engage the politics and power of Battlemaster. Without people who helped show me the way as a new knight I would never have known that this slow-paced game was worth putting in the time and effort to build lives and legacies for my characters.
Finally, I'd be remiss in writing this without thanking Tom for his long-suffering hard work and effort, and the devs who also put in a huge amount of work to make this game run.
Submitted for the approval of the midnight society...
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We've known that we need to cut the game down to size or it'll die for months now. Sadly, progress is crazy slow in big things like this.
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We've known that we need to cut the game down to size or it'll die for months now. Sadly, progress is crazy slow in big things like this.
I understand also from Ban's posts that the dev team is working hard on this and nearing completion.
However any kind of updates about all this work would be very very welcome.
We are quite excited/concerned about it.
Or at least i think many of us are.
This will hugely effect/change the game as far as i understand and as you said your self it is important to get it done as quickly as possible, as far as possible.
While this is in progress we shouldnt be left in the dark.
Many of us still have little idea of what is going to change exactly and how.
While you work on it, you could explain it some more.
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While you work on it, you could explain it some more.
I agree, but I'm not working on it.
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Some thoughts about the idea that Battlemaster is dying.
Firstly we need to look at the medium. Think back to when you started playing Battlemaster. Now consider, how many other games that you were playing at the time are you still playing? And just HOW often you play them. In general, no matter how good or how much you enjoyed a game, you are going to move on. People achieve the goals that mattered to them, or simply find other games/hobbies/activities that are more interesting to them.
This is why, while having long term players leave is sad, it is also mostly inevitable. Now people will bring up games like MOO, CIV and others that remain popular, and sure they do. But even those gaming classics have nothing like the popularity they once enjoyed. I fire up my favourite old games for a couple of weeks in a given year. When CIV first came out I played it for 4-6 hours daily for 3 months.
So if you assume that at least some percentage of long term players leaving is unavoidable, you arrive at the next problem - New player retention, The golden days of text based web game is long gone in terms of popularity, the advent and popularity of casual web based games has massively changed peoples expectations for web games in general.
All this doesn't mean we can't improve aspects of the game, nor does it mean the decline couldn't have been less significant then it has been. I do however think the reality is that we are likely never going to see the player numbers we had in the past. I think we can make the game more approachable to those that actually fit the niche, which will help new player retention, however the reality is more then likely that there just isn't a huge pool of new players interested in this style of game.
In terms of retaining old players, it is sometimes a catch 22. Improving the game surely keeps it interesting and can help retain players, but you have to remember that no two people want the same thing from Battlemaster. New feature X might be just what we need to keep one group of players interested, while another group either hate it so much they leave, or they leave because while implementing feature X we did not have time to implement feature Y, which would have been interesting to them.
The game needs to be changed so that it remains viable with fewer players. I would think that we actually need to modify it in such a way that it remains viable should the player base continue to decline so that in 2-3 years we don't run the risk that low player density is significantly detracting from the game for those that remain. We also need to be clever enough with the changes that in the case that numbers do increase, we don't have the opposite issue where higher player density is causing issues.
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Some thoughts about the idea that Battlemaster is dying.
Firstly we need to look at the medium. Think back to when you started playing Battlemaster. Now consider, how many other games that you were playing at the time are you still playing? And just HOW often you play them. In general, no matter how good or how much you enjoyed a game, you are going to move on. People achieve the goals that mattered to them, or simply find other games/hobbies/activities that are more interesting to them.
This is why, while having long term players leave is sad, it is also mostly inevitable. Now people will bring up games like MOO, CIV and others that remain popular, and sure they do. But even those gaming classics have nothing like the popularity they once enjoyed. I fire up my favourite old games for a couple of weeks in a given year. When CIV first came out I played it for 4-6 hours daily for 3 months.
So if you assume that at least some percentage of long term players leaving is unavoidable, you arrive at the next problem - New player retention, The golden days of text based web game is long gone in terms of popularity, the advent and popularity of casual web based games has massively changed peoples expectations for web games in general.
All this doesn't mean we can't improve aspects of the game, nor does it mean the decline couldn't have been less significant then it has been. I do however think the reality is that we are likely never going to see the player numbers we had in the past. I think we can make the game more approachable to those that actually fit the niche, which will help new player retention, however the reality is more then likely that there just isn't a huge pool of new players interested in this style of game.
In terms of retaining old players, it is sometimes a catch 22. Improving the game surely keeps it interesting and can help retain players, but you have to remember that no two people want the same thing from Battlemaster. New feature X might be just what we need to keep one group of players interested, while another group either hate it so much they leave, or they leave because while implementing feature X we did not have time to implement feature Y, which would have been interesting to them.
The game needs to be changed so that it remains viable with fewer players. I would think that we actually need to modify it in such a way that it remains viable should the player base continue to decline so that in 2-3 years we don't run the risk that low player density is significantly detracting from the game for those that remain. We also need to be clever enough with the changes that in the case that numbers do increase, we don't have the opposite issue where higher player density is causing issues.
+1
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We may even have to simplify the game further so it would require less people to rebuild a region or take a region over eventually.
Maybe this generation of players don't enjoy text based browser games like BM as much as people 10 years ago.
I know a few people who moved on from BM and they all seem to tell me they've achieved all they could and they just cannot feel the same excitement they previously had. - I think I am reaching this point myself as well.
I think the dev team is doing the right thing by trying to cut the game down. Let's hope it will make the game more lively.
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Are there any stats such as age of players, frequency of play, etc.? If we knew more about the demographics involved and their habits, it would probably give some clues about where the game is headed and what changes should be made.
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Are there any stats such as age of players, frequency of play, etc.? If we knew more about the demographics involved and their habits, it would probably give some clues about where the game is headed and what changes should be made.
I remember seeing some... I think Vellos had compiled them somehow. They would date somewhat now, though. I think it was in the "retention revisited" thread in this forum.
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Stats mm there somewhere...
Too be honest its mostly old players leaving that makes me sad. Who is going to remember North and south Darka with me or when Tom openly had characters playing along side us, or even when Loren beat me out of a banker election in Fontan or when Indirk came to darka or when Lavagina's sister killed Herumor.
But in with the new out with the old... only if we could improve retention of the new!
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With all respect to the dev team and I know that they do as lot...if we all know how important it is to get new players or have old ones return to their old realms, why are such bugs not fixed ASAP?
And don't say it is Christmas, it is now January 5th.
http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7918
It was also posted to the forum without any official answer.
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5355.0.html
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5356.0.html
I know of at least one player that we lost/did not get this way.
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While the Perdan estate bug doesn't seem to be fixed, there is an easy workaround solution: Using the old character creation system. No issues there, as I've just established by joining Perdan with a new character. And I'm positive this option was available at the time as well.
Also I must say that if your guy bailed because he couldn't join one specific realm, he doesn't sound like a huge loss to the BM community. And to be perfectly frank, this comes across less as 'We lost a player' and more as 'I lost a minion'...
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While the Perdan estate bug doesn't seem to be fixed, there is an easy workaround solution: Using the old character creation system. No issues there, as I've just established by joining Perdan with a new character. And I'm positive this option was available at the time as well.
Also I must say that if your guy bailed because he couldn't join one specific realm, he doesn't sound like a huge loss to the BM community. And to be perfectly frank, this comes across less as 'We lost a player' and more as 'I lost a minion'...
I can confirm that this worked out...
New Knight (just in)
A new knight has emerged from the ranks of the Perdan nobles. Drustan Andrasta is starting his career today.
He originates from Partora. He comes from a new noble family (OOC: 1 days in the game) and he might need some assistance to get started. Mentors, take note. You can check the background of this family or send a welcome message.
...but insulting people here is not helping at all.
It was no friend of mine nor anyone that would be my minion...
Another player from Perdan reported this, don't forget that.
Also, I believe that large realms are more attractive than smaller ones for new players (although this never applied for me personally).
Still, I believe that such bugs need maximum attention IMO and if an old player like Nightmare didn't see that what you say, how can we expect that a new one does?!
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Because the link is right there on the character creation page. I didn't know it existed either until I tried creating a character, but it isn't hidden or anything. I spotted it almost as soon as I read the bottom of the page. If the new guy would have taken the time to read everything properly he would have spotted it just as easily as I did. The only way I can think of to make the link more visible is to put it at the top of the page.
Also, this isn't a huge bug from a neutral point of view. It's not a game-wide bug that screws everyone. This affects only one realm as far as I can tell, and a solution is on the very same page.
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Stats mm there somewhere...
Too be honest its mostly old players leaving that makes me sad. Who is going to remember North and south Darka with me or when Tom openly had characters playing along side us, or even when Loren beat me out of a banker election in Fontan or when Indirk came to darka or when Lavagina's sister killed Herumor.
But in with the new out with the old... only if we could improve retention of the new!
If we had some good data showing when and why players drop out, then we could try to think of a way to prevent them dropping out. I'd bet that there are some recognizable trends. For example, let's say newbies have an 80% chance of dropping out in the first month, but if they stay beyond a month, their likelihood goes down to 50%, or something like that. Then you can take a closer look at both groups and look for what the drop-outs have in common with each other and what sets them apart from the non-dropouts. You might find, for example, that newbies who received welcome messages from their realm-mates were more likely to stay in the game than those that didn't. And you could do a similar analysis of the old-timers. I know everybody has theories, so let's put them to good use.
P.S. There was a character called Lavagina???
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With all respect to the dev team and I know that they do as lot...if we all know how important it is to get new players or have old ones return to their old realms, why are such bugs not fixed ASAP?
And don't say it is Christmas, it is now January 5th.
Have you forgotten, O Mighty Arbiter of All Things, that the entire dev team works for free in our spare time?
And have you also forgotten, O One Who Is Clearly Superior, that I'm basically the only active member of the dev team right now?
Or did you just fail to make the connection that when I'm spending most of my time with family (because Christmas Day isn't the only part of the Christmas holidays), I'm probably not going to be spending any time on bugfixes?
this comes across less as 'We lost a player' and more as 'I lost a minion'...
That's definitely the vibe I'm getting, too.
You need to chill, Atanamir. You've already shown yourself to be way, way too personally invested in how well your realm does.
If Perdan doesn't get any new players for a while...that's neither an insult to you personally, nor is it something that is going to harm you in any material way.
I'll probably be starting to work on BM fixes and improvements again over the next week, and how highly I prioritize this particular fix may or may not be dependent on how little you bug me about it.
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If we had some good data showing when and why players drop out, then we could try to think of a way to prevent them dropping out. I'd bet that there are some recognizable trends. For example, let's say newbies have an 80% chance of dropping out in the first month, but if they stay beyond a month, their likelihood goes down to 50%, or something like that. Then you can take a closer look at both groups and look for what the drop-outs have in common with each other and what sets them apart from the non-dropouts. You might find, for example, that newbies who received welcome messages from their realm-mates were more likely to stay in the game than those that didn't. And you could do a similar analysis of the old-timers. I know everybody has theories, so let's put them to good use.
P.S. There was a character called Lavagina???
It will be difficult to stop old players from leaving. These 'old' players have played this game for years and you might be able to convince them to stay for a bit longer but they will eventually move on. Even if they stay, they may just turn into one of those silent zombies.
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P.S. There was a character called Lavagina???
...I can never spell her original characters name right Lavigna... 10 years later
Stats can be found on this thread, you'll have to sort through them.
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4894.0.html
Stats
http://battlemaster.org/Statistics.Players.php
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With all respect to the dev team and I know that they do as lot...if we all know how important it is to get new players or have old ones return to their old realms, why are such bugs not fixed ASAP?
And don't say it is Christmas, it is now January 5th.
http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7918
It was also posted to the forum without any official answer.
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5355.0.html
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5356.0.html
I know of at least one player that we lost/did not get this way.
I'll just go tell the missus that BM bug fixes are more important then spending time with my young son and her good self over the Christmas break.
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I know a few people who moved on from BM and they all seem to tell me they've achieved all they could and they just cannot feel the same excitement they previously had. - I think I am reaching this point myself as well.
There's a lot of truth in this. The game has a definite shelf life for most players (as do the vast majority of games). It's particularly marked by the number of basically inactive rulers I've encountered over the years. I think that the participation in the game often drops away after people reach the higher title levels (although there are obviously several long-term players to whom this doesn't apply).
I think this shelf life varies significantly from player to player, and those who drop out largely just become bored with the game after they've reached a certain level of achievement. I'm not sure if there's any solution to this aside from a massive injection of new content to extend the life span (and that's clearly not going to happen because we don't have enough devs to create such things).
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And have you also forgotten, O One Who Is Clearly Superior, that I'm basically the only active member of the dev team right now?
I can't forget something that I don't know.
I'll probably be starting to work on BM fixes and improvements again over the next week, and how highly I prioritize this particular fix may or may not be dependent on how little you bug me about it.
I won't bother even replying to your personal attacks.
If you don't want me to bug you, then don't tell me on IRC 1 week ago, "you will fix it today or tomorrow".
Say you will do it after the xmas holidays.
I work here with what I get told, so as I already told you in another thread you may want to be more precise in what you say.
It's not my problem if you can't hold your word. It is your credibility that is lacking.
But it is the problem of those who ask me because nobody else cares to come to the forum due to the way ppl are treated here.
Even I don't report bugs since long cause when I do it, you never fix them and tell me that it is only in my interest. As can be seen again here.
The last bug I reported and got fixed was to vita but with you it is always the same.
Anyway, thank you and so long.
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I can't forget something that I don't know.
I won't bother even replying to your personal attacks.
If you don't want me to bug you, then don't tell me on IRC 1 week ago, "you will fix it today or tomorrow".
Say you will do it after the xmas holidays.
I work here with what I get told, so as I already told you in another thread you may want to be more precise in what you say.
It's not my problem if you can't hold your word. It is your credibility that is lacking.
But it is the problem of those who ask me because nobody else cares to come to the forum due to the way ppl are treated here.
Even I don't report bugs since long cause when I do it, you never fix them and tell me that it is only in my interest. As can be seen again here.
The last bug I reported and got fixed was to vita but with you it is always the same.
Anyway, thank you and so long.
Why are you reporting bugs to individuals? We have a bug tracker. It is a handy thing since those Dev's who like me don't hang out in IRC can fire it up, quickly check which bugs are outstanding and don't have a Dev working on them and get them fixed.
If you don't want personal attacks, don't go baiting Anaris by somehow implying that since it is the 5th of January the Devs should all be finished whatever holiday plans they may have had and be back dedicating their time for free working on this project. It doesn't take long to check and see that there are many outstanding bugs which affect far more players then the bug you are personally interested in.
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Moderator note: I know that many of us are very passionate about this game. Please let's try and keep things civil on all accounts.
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Too be honest its mostly old players leaving that makes me sad. Who is going to remember North and south Darka with me or when Tom openly had characters playing along side us, or even when Loren beat me out of a banker election in Fontan or when Indirk came to darka or when Lavagina's sister killed Herumor.
I remember the first three =)
I have noticed that new players tend to disappear more often since we got rid of the Mentor class/people stopped mentoring as much. That's anecdotal but I think real.
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I remember the first three =)
I have noticed that new players tend to disappear more often since we got rid of the Mentor class/people stopped mentoring as much. That's anecdotal but I think real.
I agree. I believe the intent was that it would be replaced with something better but I see 0 downside to keeping the class going until that something better is made.
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I remember the first three =)
I have noticed that new players tend to disappear more often since we got rid of the Mentor class/people stopped mentoring as much. That's anecdotal but I think real.
Hmm? Did we get rid of Mentor already? ???
This is because 2 of my characters are Mentors still... I like to help the new players settle down in the game.
Maybe we can consider how to grow Battlemaster by putting in Realm Description how many Mentors a particular realm has, so that it becomes friendly to the new players. Just an idea though ;)
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The ability to become a mentor is gone. I believe the special mentor perks are as well. Anyone who was already a mentor should still be listed as one, since I don't believe they were ever kicked out of the mentor class when it was removed.
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I remember the first three =)
I have noticed that new players tend to disappear more often since we got rid of the Mentor class/people stopped mentoring as much. That's anecdotal but I think real.
I think the class had its uses but few held its numbers for long. Though I bet it would help retention some.
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Battlemaster marketing came up in another thread, and this was the first that seemed appropriate that I found.
If you have any good (non-obvious) ideas about how to market the game, I'd be more than happy to hear them (preferably in a different thread). It's just not something I know much about, and BattleMaster doesn't have a budget, so the obvious answer isn't really a viable one.
Has anyone tried a targeted campaign? A few short-term dedicated posters might be able to round up a grass-roots effort fairly efficiently. Online meeting-places for D&D, medieval fantasy literature, and/or general Roleplaying could probably yield 3 or 4 players apiece to try Battlemaster (to see what it is like). They may not stick, but that is always the case with new players. 50 well placed posts, links, or name drops might generate 10 to 30 long term players, a whole realm for a weekend of deskwork.
I've only really dabbled in marketing in my professional capacity. I'm not unfamiliar with some processes, but I could use some help if I wanted to get something started. The growth-cycle is waning right now, anyone want to try waxing it?
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Battlemaster marketing came up in another thread, and this was the first that seemed appropriate that I found.
Y'know, you are allowed to create new threads...
Has anyone tried a targeted campaign? A few short-term dedicated posters might be able to round up a grass-roots effort fairly efficiently. Online meeting-places for D&D, medieval fantasy literature, and/or general Roleplaying could probably yield 3 or 4 players apiece to try Battlemaster (to see what it is like). They may not stick, but that is always the case with new players. 50 well placed posts, links, or name drops might generate 10 to 30 long term players, a whole realm for a weekend of deskwork.
I've only really dabbled in marketing in my professional capacity. I'm not unfamiliar with some processes, but I could use some help if I wanted to get something started. The growth-cycle is waning right now, anyone want to try waxing it?
I'm just not in a position to do anything like that, because I'm not a member of any forums like that, and while I'm sure I could find some if I put my mind to it, I'd just be some random person jumping in to advertise his own irrelevant crap. I dunno about you, but I wouldn't appreciate it if someone joined the BattleMaster forum solely to advertise for his own pet project.
If anyone knows of such places, though, they are invited to speak up...
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Y'know, you are allowed to create new threads...
I'm just not in a position to do anything like that, because I'm not a member of any forums like that, and while I'm sure I could find some if I put my mind to it, I'd just be some random person jumping in to advertise his own irrelevant crap. I dunno about you, but I wouldn't appreciate it if someone joined the BattleMaster forum solely to advertise for his own pet project.
If anyone knows of such places, though, they are invited to speak up...
I figure there are probably 3 or 4 relevant threads around already. For now I am brainstorming, and revisiting old discussions brings people back to it.
When I said a weekend of deskwork, I meant that fairly literally. Maybe spread over a month, but it still applies to about 48 hours. A full+ work-week (or light part-time, spread over a month) of research, testing of various forums, casual to dedicated posting (depending on how many you think you could attract). It might need to be well-worded, audience tailor-made, and require learning/trying some new hobby.
It would be a job (although possibly enjoyable) to juggle 70 or 80 forums fairly regularly, but almost all well traveled forums have a place or way to attract 100-500 views to a link. That isn't as much as a google ad or a expensive catch-all, but look at the efficiency of targeted ads. Facebook would know what your farts smell like if they could generate more clicks.
If a newbie came on, posted regularly and meaningfully for about a month (1 a day) on the forum, posted a link to RoyalConquest-Free Online Game (off the top of my head as something that might be equivalent to this audience) on the 'other games' board and you wouldn't think anything of it. Hundreds of views on each thread (on this forum) of less similar-geared tags for this audience. If we hit the right people, they click out of interest (say, even 10-20 clicks out of the hundreds of views). If we hit the right audience, they will be engaged and make an account (spare-time, interest in x part of game). Perhaps say 1 or 2 long-term players stick with it. Multiply that by 50, we have a continent.
Of course, like I said, this is all brain-storm. I could be vastly over-estimating my capability, I could be vastly over-estimating the appeal of Battlemaster. Regardless, all efforts would have to be made to:
A) Improve and distribute the good-name of Battlemaster and its owner/devs,
B) As un-official representatives, efforts would have to be made to make sure the name of Battlemaster is not associated with any negative connotations (no trolling, no flaming, no divisive topics, and other etiquette demands for marketing purposes)
C) Be unpaid....although I would hope if I (and others) could actually get a whole continent of players to battlemaster that we could get like....$20 and a good business reference. That might be enough incentive for me to try, not sure about others.
But, like I said...I've never tried anything like this. Do people think it is worth a new thread to see if we can get volunteers? Do you think it would actually effect the growth of Battlemaster?
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If we hit the right people, they click out of interest (say, even 10-20 clicks out of the hundreds of views). If we hit the right audience, they will be engaged and make an account (spare-time, interest in x part of game). Perhaps say 1 or 2 long-term players stick with it. Multiply that by 50, we have a continent.
Ah...do you have any idea how many players are on a continent?
The smallest continent, the Colonies, has over 50 players even now. The largest, Dwilight, has nearly 300.
To bring BattleMaster's density back up to where it should be, without removing any regions, we'd need to bring in around 1000 new players.
Now, I'm not saying your strategy couldn't achieve that, over time. But 50 players, even long-term ones, do not a continent make.
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Ah...do you have any idea how many players are on a continent?
The smallest continent, the Colonies, has over 50 players even now. The largest, Dwilight, has nearly 300.
Shhhh, I'm trying to sell something. I don't need your logic and skepticism all up in my rhetoric and misleading numbers. :P
I see what you are saying, that it would take time and not attract near enough to cover Battlemaster at its height. But more people can't hurt us (as long as we don't hit a patch of serious griefers). Without throwing money at advertising, you need an efficient (and volunteer in this case) approach to marketing. This is all first-day spit-ball, so I welcome any input.
If it doesn't work, I know I can't into viral marketing and I've wasted time/effort (and any who have helped). If it does, we have a good bump in numbers in Battlemaster and could probably re-campaign later. There may come a point where you don't get as much return on posting after exhausting the best places....but by then enough people might know about it and word of mouth might spread on its own.
Has there been a marketing effort for Battlemaster that attracted players more than posts on the Dwarf Fortress forum? I recall lurking old threads and finding a fair amount of players coming from there (that might be hindsight bias, though). I know the team has put together some really neat stuff for Battlemaster (which all can be used for hype, not to mention 10 year histories), but how much of it has been circulated?
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Shhhh, I'm trying to sell something. I don't need your logic and skepticism all up in my rhetoric and misleading numbers. :P
I see what you are saying, that it would take time and not attract near enough to cover Battlemaster at its height. But more people can't hurt us (as long as we don't hit a patch of serious griefers). Without throwing money at advertising, you need an efficient (and volunteer in this case) approach to marketing. This is all first-day spit-ball, so I welcome any input.
No, I completely understand that this is exactly the right kind of effort, and that any results is produces are worth it. I just want to make sure you're not getting unrealistic expectations, that's all ;D
Has there been a marketing effort for Battlemaster that attracted players more than posts on the Dwarf Fortress forum? I recall lurking old threads and finding a fair amount of players coming from there (that might be hindsight bias, though). I know the team has put together some really neat stuff for Battlemaster (which all can be used for hype, not to mention 10 year histories), but how much of it has been circulated?
I think that the biggest single bump was when it got a front-page mention on Slashdot, several years ago. Aside from that, I think the influx of Bay12ers was, indeed, the best we've had.
I haven't tried to circulate much of anything, since I don't really much run in the right circles to do so. In fact, BattleMaster is really the main online circle I run in at all. Never really had time for another one ;D
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I haven't tried to circulate much of anything, since I don't really much run in the right circles to do so. In fact, BattleMaster is really the main online circle I run in at all. Never really had time for another one ;D
I've not been active in a lot of forums, but I've lurked my fair share. I may be pulling all of this out of my ass, but I might as well try using my BA in psychology for something other than RP evil.
I'm in a strange spot in life and this seems like a feasible project for me. Not sure how long my free-time will hold, but I'm willing to try. If it is fruitful, I'm serious about that 20 bucks and good references, btw.
I'll sleep on it and make a new thread tomorrow (or so) with a more coherent plan. Let this thread return to the nether pages or return to its previous discussion.
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Enoch, look around the wiki for stuff. I know there's older marketing idea pages on there. Maybe start in community section or miscellaneous? There's 3-4 wiki pages which I do believe link to each other.
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It may be possible buy advertisements on targeted sites where people who are interested in rpgs often hang out. If, for example, anyone knows of rpg-specific sites that sell banners, we may be able to buy them. Or perhaps web comic sites about fantasy rpg themes. Or sites like schlockmercenary.com, where the author of the comic often talks about rpg and gaming, even though it's a sci fi comic.