BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Anaris on December 25, 2013, 10:43:01 PM
-
Please post your feedback on the just-released rebalance.
Please note that while we are sympathetic to people whose regions or realms ended up losing out, we will not simply be making changes because people complain. The only way to avoid some regions losing out is to simply increase stats across the board, which is not a reasonable way to achieve the goals of the rebalance.
This does not mean that we will not change anything, however. If a situation is brought to our attention where a given area has become both unable to feed itself and unable to purchase the food required, or something similar to that, we will give it serious consideration. We have done a number of spot-checks and reining in of outliers (regions both vastly too rich and devastatingly poor), but we do not know the "normal" nature of all the regions in the game, and we did not have time to investigate all the changes by ourselves, so something may have slipped by us.
Finally, let me make clear that overall, every continent has been adjusted to have approximately a 25% food surplus (island-wide) and approximately a 10% boost in total gold. (And yes, we know that gold is already abundant—we have some other plans that will help with that, but they take more time and care to implement.)
-
As I wrote elsewhere, Desert of Silhouettes on Dwilight is down to producing 34 (!) gold. I was merely curious if this was intentional or something that has been forgotten or how the general thinking went on incredibly poor regions.
Haven't noticed any trouble except that yet!
-
It is not our intention that, over the long run, there be any regions that are truly more trouble to take and keep than they will ever be worth.
We do know about regions like the Desert, and we have some ideas for how to make them less unpalatable. At present, without additional goods to produce, our thinking is that if it can't be a region that's economically valuable, it should be a region that's strategically valuable.
We do not have all the details worked out yet, however.
-
In my opinion, there should be regions which are considered useless. Those can be used to form natural borders.
-
In my opinion, there should be regions which are considered useless. Those can be used to form natural borders.
Sure, they can create "natural borders" which is wonderful in real life but why is it good in battlemaster?
Natural borders lessen conflict and conflict is what's fun in battlemaster ;)
-
I'm reserving most judgement on the rebalance until I can see the realm statistics change. So far it seems like a nice bump in the right direction, but who knows what it will do. More food will certainly effect the food market, but with gold coming in to different regions it might drive the price up.
I am flabbergasted at the Divides (I'm assuming other mountains as well), though. They were such bad regions I had ignored them mostly. Now they are economic jewels. That might change some things. Places like the Desert are fine, though. Everyone has ample lordships/estates, so why not leave it rogue? Do people really travel it that often or need the room? It's a piece on the board, yeah, but not all pieces have to be yours.
-
Hmm. I see more rurals and woodlands that are richer than cities and cities that make more food than rurals. Don't know what kind of impact that will have yet though.
-
I see many region in Beluaterra lost gold and food while region in Dwlight gain more gold. Especially mountain. North Divide before this only produce 100+ but increase greatly to 1100+ gold..
This rebalance should be changed. I personally see the post-rebalance as more good rebalance.
-
I see many region in Beluaterra lost gold and food while region in Dwlight gain more gold. Especially mountain. North Divide before this only produce 100+ but increase greatly to 1100+ gold.. I only see this as sabotage to make everyone leave Beluatera and emigrate to Dwlight. Then Beluaterra will be sank right?
No, not even a little bit.
The rebalance is just the rebalance. It has nothing whatsoever to do with sinking or not sinking an island.
Dwilight's mountains before the rebalance were utter crap. They had about 1/5 the population of any mountain regions on other continents (at best).
Beluaterra went down a lot in food production, because it was in a state of massive permanent surplus due to losing a bunch of cities in the Last Invasion. As I said above, every continent gained approximately 10% more gold production overall, so your observation about BT's gold simply isn't even true.
This rebalance should be changed. I personally see the post-rebalance as more good rebalance.
There will likely be more changes at some point in the future; however, I do not anticipate anything more than localized tweaks in the next few weeks.
The rebalance is certainly not going to be rolled back unless some sort of massive systemic problem with it is discovered.
-
First of all thank you!
This must have taken quite the planning and discussion.
The game needs an overhaul as you(the dev team) have been working.
However to comment on the recent changes fully, it would be handy if more information is disclosed concerning the changes to come.
I have heard some references to planned features that will offer more options to invest gold, or increase prices.
Most likley, there are also changes planned that will influence how food is handled etc.
And as Timothy already disclosed, economy will eventually become broader, with different resources needed for various investments which will also change the way we have to judge the current changes.
All in all i am exited about the changes, yet find it hard to evaluate, or judge them as i miss the bigger picture.
Some more disclosure on the coming features and changes would be very helpful.
Ofcourse we also want to hear what island will sink :)
-
I hope Dwilight will be sink..
-
I got coal for Christmas. Rettleville (Dwilight) needs to feed 4.500 more peasants with a 300 gold tax loss. Similar cities produce much more than 778 gold, such as Koshtlom, Shinnen, Fissoa, Chrysantalys & Sallowtown (both with an even smaller population). Besides that, 35% of all townslands are richer than Rettleville, while even more are more valuable because they do produce food, and Rettleville needs to import it. To complete the list, 5 mountain regions and two strongholds have a larger income while some don't even have half the population of Rettleville. This just doesn't sound very fair.
-
I hope Dwilight will be sink..
You're probably quite alone in that opinion considering that Dwilight always ends up on top as the most popular continent.
I got coal for Christmas. Rettleville (Dwilight) needs to feed 4.500 more peasants with a 300 gold tax loss. Similar cities produce much more than 778 gold, such as Koshtlom, Shinnen, Fissoa, Chrysantalys & Sallowtown (both with an even smaller population). Besides that, 35% of all townslands are richer than Rettleville, while even more are more valuable because they do produce food, and Rettleville needs to import it. To complete the list, 5 mountain regions and two strongholds have a larger income while some don't even have half the population of Rettleville. This just doesn't sound very fair.
I'm sorry to hear of your...coal. Sadly some lose out by this balance change. But as sympathetic as I am, I wish to remind you that population size does not equal absolute wealth in the real world either. Iran is about as wealthy as Sweden in absolute terms, but has 8 times the population. Ukraine is about as wealthy as Romania in absolute terms but has more than twice the population, just to take two examples.
-
I'm reserving most judgement on the rebalance until I can see the realm statistics change. So far it seems like a nice bump in the right direction, but who knows what it will do. More food will certainly effect the food market, but with gold coming in to different regions it might drive the price up.
I am flabbergasted at the Divides (I'm assuming other mountains as well), though. They were such bad regions I had ignored them mostly. Now they are economic jewels. That might change some things. Places like the Desert are fine, though. Everyone has ample lordships/estates, so why not leave it rogue? Do people really travel it that often or need the room? It's a piece on the board, yeah, but not all pieces have to be yours.
Yea, I'd like to see the results up on the statistics page...
-
I was wondering.. Many woodland regions on EC got 1k+ gold income, with the added ability to feed themselves and to some extent export food. So did woodlands on other islands also got overhauled?
-
Most of the woodlands I've checked out on Dwilight so far seem to have gotten a nerf in food production (50% less?) and either a slight decrease in gold, or a slight increase in gold production, depending.
-
I'm sorry to hear of your...coal. Sadly some lose out by this balance change. But as sympathetic as I am, I wish to remind you that population size does not equal absolute wealth in the real world either. Iran is about as wealthy as Sweden in absolute terms, but has 8 times the population. Ukraine is about as wealthy as Romania in absolute terms but has more than twice the population, just to take two examples.
That indeed doesn't apply to the real world, however when comparing similar regions with each other, knowing that the rebalance are based on the statistics of each region, I simply didn't expect such difference between regions that are very similar.
-
Would it be possible to get up to date realm statistics so we have a more graphical way to see how this balance has affected things? Or a nice graph with food/gold production per part of the continents. As it's a game afterall, I would like to see that some parts of the continent aren't favored too much regarding gold/food income above other parts.
I hope that you already have such a picture and it can easily be shared with us.
-
I was wondering.. Many woodland regions on EC got 1k+ gold income, with the added ability to feed themselves and to some extent export food. So did woodlands on other islands also got overhauled?
No, Cren, "many" woodland regions on EC did not get 1k+ gold income. Two did, and they are woodlands with populations larger than many cities in the game.
In the rebalance, population matters a lot. If you have a lot of people, you end up with a lot of production.
-
Would it be possible to get up to date realm statistics so we have a more graphical way to see how this balance has affected things? Or a nice graph with food/gold production per part of the continents. As it's a game afterall, I would like to see that some parts of the continent aren't favored too much regarding gold/food income above other parts.
I hope that you already have such a picture and it can easily be shared with us.
Unfortunately, we don't have such a graph, and there's no consistent way to break up "parts" of the continents to aggregate food/gold production over. (If there were, believe me, I would have done it; that would have been really useful when analyzing the numbers.)
The only major subdivisions the continents really have is realms, and since we are explicitly not balancing the numbers based on realms, it seemed like a bad idea to use them as part of our analysis.
-
I got coal for Christmas. Rettleville (Dwilight) needs to feed 4.500 more peasants with a 300 gold tax loss.
I'm afraid Rettleville was a victim of crime.
When working on the rebalance, we found that cities started to become totally absurdly wealthy when they got to high population densities. So crime was added to balance that out. Rettleville is unfortunate in that it is very small (in terms of area), but not especially high-production, so it got a fair amount of crime, but not much actual gold.
Sorry. :-\
-
I'm afraid Rettleville was a victim of crime.
When working on the rebalance, we found that cities started to become totally absurdly wealthy when they got to high population densities. So crime was added to balance that out. Rettleville is unfortunate in that it is very small (in terms of area), but not especially high-production, so it got a fair amount of crime, but not much actual gold.
Sorry. :-\
Wait what?
Can a crime stat be displayed?
Also, on regional aggregation: you might try aggregating by weather area. Is that not feasible?
-
Wait what?
Can a crime stat be displayed?
Population density information is available in the game already.
-
Population density information is available in the game already.
That doesn't tell you effects of crime though, just population density.
-
So with the change in gold values the amount needed for family investments has also changed, right?
-
So with the change in gold values the amount needed for family investments has also changed, right?
Yes, that should be the case.
-
Would it be possible to get up to date realm statistics so we have a more graphical way to see how this balance has affected things? Or a nice graph with food/gold production per part of the continents. As it's a game afterall, I would like to see that some parts of the continent aren't favored too much regarding gold/food income above other parts.
I hope that you already have such a picture and it can easily be shared with us.
This shows the changes on Dwilight by climate region.
(http://wiki.battlemaster.org/images/thumb/Rebalance_chart_Dwilight.jpg/800px-Rebalance_chart_Dwilight.jpg)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B85AasBw9ZoxekNkUDY1TU1aWW8/edit?usp=sharing
-
This shows the changes on Dwilight by climate region.
This is hilariously wrong. Dwilight had overall food production greatly increased, not decreased.
-
It's compared to the levels back in April or May.
-
I'm afraid Rettleville was a victim of crime.
When working on the rebalance, we found that cities started to become totally absurdly wealthy when they got to high population densities. So crime was added to balance that out. Rettleville is unfortunate in that it is very small (in terms of area), but not especially high-production, so it got a fair amount of crime, but not much actual gold.
Sorry. :-\
Rettleville wasn't wealthy to begin with. So the crime you added greatly affects small cities as well.
This shows the changes on Dwilight by climate region.
The only realm in the South Forest region in Barca. While everyone has seen an increase in wealth, we are the only one who lost wealth.
-
The only realm in the South Forest region in Barca. While everyone has seen an increase in wealth, we are the only one who lost wealth.
Asylon, Niselur and Phantaria also lost gold.
-
The only realm in the South Forest region in Barca. While everyone has seen an increase in wealth, we are the only one who lost wealth.
Niselur also lost wealth, still hoping for official numbers from the devs.
-
The game tracks statistics for food and the like, but doesn't display them for a week. This means that the stats are there, since the game isn't able of divination to see into the past, it relies on records it enters every day, even if it doesn't share them for a while. The devs should have access to this table and thus be able to rather easily produce the stats by realm for all to see and judge.
-
Asylon, Niselur and Phantaria also lost gold.
Looking at the chart you provided, by climate regions, Barca is the most apparent one.
-
Looking at the chart you provided, by climate regions, Barca is the most apparent one.
If you click the link underneath it, you can see the spreadsheet I used with the realm and region-level data.
-
Before I file anything in the bugtracker that might be caused by the rebalance, did any of the rest of you notice production changing in your regions but the official morning reports saying "unchanged"?
In Balance's Retreat, it has said no change for the last 12 days or so but it has in fact dropped 4 percentage units in production. From 99 to 95.
-
Before I file anything in the bugtracker that might be caused by the rebalance, did any of the rest of you notice production changing in your regions but the official morning reports saying "unchanged"?
In Balance's Retreat, it has said no change for the last 12 days or so but it has in fact dropped 4 percentage units in production. From 99 to 95.
I believe the only time it will say it has changed is when the words change, like thriving to busy.
-
If you click the link underneath it, you can see the spreadsheet I used with the realm and region-level data.
Great spreadsheet. I used it and added a few values for the cities, such as total population and the population density at total population, and used that to change the value of GPC post. Then you see that a higher population density doesn't mean a lower GPC. With the added crime at high population density you would think this should imply, but seemingly it doesn't.
-
Then you see that a higher population density doesn't mean a lower GPC. With the added crime at high population density you would think this should imply, but seemingly it doesn't.
There is very little in the regional economy calculations as simple as "Higher density > More crime > Less gold". There are quite a few dependencies that interact with each other to produce the final numbers. It's been a while since I looked at the actual code for it, and ^ban^ and Anaris probably changed it quite a bit since then, but there could be triggers in there where pop density doesn't cause crime until it hits a certain threshold. And how much crime is produced at any particular density could depend on the region type, or the presence of a particular subtype.
Also, comparing two regions and expecting the numbers to correlate is rarely going to work. Two regions that you may think are fairly similar could yield quite different results. The final values depend on so many things that are seemingly insignificant, or non-obvious details that could have a huge impact. For example: the length of the coastline, the percentage of the border that is coastline, the *type* of coast (river, lake, ocean), the Location of the region, pop density, etc. If one of these shifts, then the population works in different sectors, each of which has its own gold and food producing stats.
It's a fairly complex system that does not easily yield its inner mechanisms to external observation.
-
I have seen some cities in Astrum and Morek gain huge gold boost cca 800+, while some cities down south and west didnt get almost any. Is there a reason why some northern regions gained huge gold boost?
-
I have seen some cities in Astrum and Morek gain huge gold boost cca 800+, while some cities down south and west didnt get almost any. Is there a reason why some northern regions gained huge gold boost?
For the umpteenth time, the dev team did not in any way consider realm affiliation when adjusting the numbers for the rebalance. So no, there's no reason why some northern regions gained a huge gold boost, or some southern regions gained a huge food boost, or any other such accusatory, discriminatory statement.
For the most part, we didn't even look at individual regions at all. We adjusted the formulas for the rebalance so that the regional averages and the continental totals hit certain targets, then we looked for outliers and tried to rein them in somewhat (regions that were extremely rich or extremely poor).
The rebalance may end up causing your realm inconvenience or peril. It may end up relieving a minor nuisance or saving it from destruction. None of that was important to us in designing the rebalance. We knew that some places would win and others would lose, and there's absolutely no way to avoid that to make the entire system fair, and have a set of formulae we can use to ensure the game is, at least to the best of our ability, balanced.
-
For the umpteenth time, the dev team did not in any way consider realm affiliation when adjusting the numbers for the rebalance. So no, there's no reason why some northern regions gained a huge gold boost, or some southern regions gained a huge food boost, or any other such accusatory, discriminatory statement.
All he was doing is asking what the reason was. For that, you should simply point him at Indirik's post:
Also, comparing two regions and expecting the numbers to correlate is rarely going to work. Two regions that you may think are fairly similar could yield quite different results. The final values depend on so many things that are seemingly insignificant, or non-obvious details that could have a huge impact. For example: the length of the coastline, the percentage of the border that is coastline, the *type* of coast (river, lake, ocean), the Location of the region, pop density, etc. If one of these shifts, then the population works in different sectors, each of which has its own gold and food producing stats.
It's a fairly complex system that does not easily yield its inner mechanisms to external observation.
-
Not sure this is a 25% surplus for FEI:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/velax/da149b8f818a8c88c7eb37f41e2ee4ab.jpg)
-
I took a "visual data" course a few years ago, and I'm pretty sure this is what's known as a cluster!@#$.
-
This was my initial thought about FEI too, but now I'm not so sure.
Some of the realms were running huge surpluses of food before the re-balance. The more southern regions have never been fantastic in terms of food production, so this might just represent a more balanced leveling out of food production in the northern and northern-central regions when it's taken over the long term (rather than the very short period that's showing the sudden downward spike here).
Combined with the seasonal variations in FEI, it'll be difficult to decide conclusively until we see more data.
-
Seasonal variation has nothing to do with it. The change happened either at the beginning of Autumn, when lots of food should be produced, or the end of Summer when the "normal" amount of food should be produced.
I'm also not sure which FEI you play on, but the north has always had the majority of the poorly producing regions. If we take Ahael as the arbitrary mid-point of the island, the north has nine of the lowest 10 food-producing regions. Nine of the lowest 10 gold-producing regions as well. If you want to expand that to the lowest 20, the north has 16 of the lowest gold and 16 of the lowest food-producing regions. 24 of the lowest 30 gold producing regions and 21 of the 30 lowest food producing regions. So, please. I don't think you'll win that particular argument.
-
Seasonal variation has nothing to do with it. The change happened either at the beginning of Autumn, when lots of food should be produced, or the end of Summer when the "normal" amount of food should be produced.
Autumn started two days ago on FEI, and multiple weather areas are experiencing poor weather right now. (As an aside, the worst time to have poor weather is Autumn)
The 25% surplus is targeted across all seasons and ignores weather.
-
So it was Summer then. When food production should be normal.
And what was the weather like 9 days ago when the changes came in?
-
So, please. I don't think you'll win that particular argument.
There is no argument. We're just collectively trying to figure out if there's a broad problem with the island.
the north has always had the majority of the poorly producing regions. If we take Ahael as the arbitrary mid-point of the island, the north has nine of the lowest 10 food-producing regions. Nine of the lowest 10 gold-producing regions as well. If you want to expand that to the lowest 20, the north has 16 of the lowest gold and 16 of the lowest food-producing regions. 24 of the lowest 30 gold producing regions and 21 of the 30 lowest food producing regions.
I'm not contesting your claims, but the short period covered by the downward spike is too little to determine what's actually happening. Most of the realms appeared to be running large overall (i.e. realm-wide) food surpluses pre-rebalance. From the broad stats given in the graph, it's impossible to break down what's happening on a region-by-region basis so soon. The Food Surplus or Deficit stats are also a bit of a deceptive indicator. Take Zonasa as an example. The stats showed them to have had a surplus of about 100, but that presumably came in via trading rather than the actual production from their one rural region. The Production stats tell a different tale: pre-rebalance 380, compared with post-rebalance 258. Or Cathay's 'pre' of 1,539, to their 'post' of 1,387. Sorraine: 'pre' 712, to 'post' of 583. Those aren't huge drops in food production. The downward incline in the Production stats is much less dramatic, and even appears to have levelled out over the last couple of days. But it's such a short space of time that it's difficult to say.
-
Levels of production mean nothing when we're talking about whether not or there's a 25% surplus. Before this, only three realms had a 25% or higher surplus in the last three months - all small realms, making up just 20% of the continent combined. Every other realm had well under 25% surplus, according to the stats. If 80% of the island had well under 25%, chances are the whole island had an average of under 25%. We needed an increase in food to get to that, not a drop. But every realm did drop - aside from Kindara, of course, who managed to get away with the by far smallest drop in surplus and the by far largest increase in gold.
Given that we needed an increase in food to get a 25% surplus, it seems unlikely that weather alone has turned our needed increase into a huge drop.
-
Given that we needed an increase in food to get a 25% surplus, it seems unlikely that weather alone has turned our needed increase into a huge drop.
Only Dwilight had food increased.
-
Only Dwilight had food increased.
The stats don't show it though.
-
The stats don't show it though.
Bring numbers of their production values summed and then you can talk, the picture is meaningless when talking about whether or not the production values result in a 25% surplus.
-
... its like nothing changed really in my perspective at least saw some quotes though they were worth the read. ;D
-
Bring numbers of their production values summed and then you can talk, the picture is meaningless when talking about whether or not the production values result in a 25% surplus.
Or I can just look at the stacked statistics for food production on Dwilight and see how they drop in stead of rise on the day of the rebalance and then come here to point that out. Even if there's bad harvests and whatnot, it should still have risen that day. Unless only rogue and Zuma saw their production rise, which isn't very likely.
Now before you say anything else, go look up all the numbers and prove me wrong.
-
Looks like some people who did the rebalancing must hate Corsanctum on Dwilight. The glorious city of Mimer has almost been reduced to smithereens thanks to that beggar and his glowing whore... destroying holy cities in the process of "rebalancing" isnt too cool.
-
They weren't rebalancing in mind of realms. It just the continent overall in general.
-
Looks like some people who did the rebalancing must hate Corsanctum on Dwilight.
Can you either please read the thread before replying? or other wise remain respectful towards the devs who voluntarily work for our game?
And if you disagree, please reply constructively.
Its in my opinion very hard to form a good opinion on the recent changes (yet), due to lack of information, that's why i refrain from it and kindly ask for more information.
Perhaps good advise for you.
What your doing now is senselessly bugging them with nonsense, it does not help them improve their work or motivate them to do more work for all of us.
-
Stop beeing such a wimp Bhranthan... If its really so hard to read between the lines for someone whos !@#$ting rainbows I will try to be a little bit less rude.
I just wanted to point out that some of the changes in Corsanctum have been rather brutal. And hey, I thought this is the place to tell someone.
I love you DEVs and fully understand how tough it must be from times to times trying to improve this awesome game. You doing a great work! Keep on rocking...
-
Moderator note: I know that many of us are very passionate about this game, and our realms. Even so, please let's try and keep things civil on all sides.
Rebalancing was done via formulas which calculated new stats based on regional characteristics. They were *not* arbitrarily assigned by hand, nor were changes made based on realm borders. The same equations were applied to *all* regions equally.
-
Your realm was "doomed" by the rebalance? Seek new borders. You can just consider that Mother Nature is a bitch... she is. Dwilight is specially good for this kind of endeavor.
-
Autumn started two days ago on FEI, and multiple weather areas are experiencing poor weather right now. (As an aside, the worst time to have poor weather is Autumn)
The 25% surplus is targeted across all seasons and ignores weather.
It would have been nice of them to account for the effects of seasonality, and not just a global average based on production alone... By my calculations, shared on these threads back when it was in the making, weather resulted in considerably greater rot (9% more, I think, but that's off the top of my head), as food, on average, stayed in warehouses longer become being consumed. And that was theoretical minimal rot, assuming all of the food had enough warehouses for it: something which is particularly untrue when seasons are factored in because it becomes somewhat onerous to build enough warehouses for the peak season. A greater "surplus" would have been nice to compensate for this. And this doesn't even cover the increased expenses of realms on thoses continents when they do try to build up enough warehouses...
As for the FEI stats shared here... you must also account that these are relative numbers: food production minus consumption divided by production. Thus, even if almost all realms are below the 25% mark, it's more than possible that those few above the 25% mark, just due to their size, balance out the average. That being said, I am not aware of which of these realms is large or not. Also, as others have mentioned, there are other factors, such as weather, to account for.
-
Additional note: it would sure be nice to have statistics on the raw food surpluses of the realms (production-consumption), instead of just the ratio. With the population statistics, it's all public info anyways, just tedious to crunch in for the players. I've always been of the opinion that if something is available to players, then it should be easily so, so that one must not waste large amounts of his life's time to remain competitive, this being a "light-weight" game after all.
-
As for the FEI stats shared here... you must also account that these are relative numbers: food production minus consumption divided by production. Thus, even if almost all realms are below the 25% mark, it's more than possible that those few above the 25% mark, just due to their size, balance out the average. That being said, I am not aware of which of these realms is large or not. Also, as others have mentioned, there are other factors, such as weather, to account for.
Before this, only three realms had a 25% or higher surplus in the last three months - all small realms, making up just 20% of the continent combined. Every other realm had well under 25% surplus, according to the stats. If 80% of the island had well under 25%, chances are the whole island had an average of under 25%.
-
On Dwilight, I can't notice any significant changes... neither in gold nor food, when looking at the stats. The changes came in on dec 25th?
-
On Dwilight, I can't notice any significant changes... neither in gold nor food, when looking at the stats. The changes came in on dec 25th?
Almost 20.000 people in my city were killed in a VERY short time and we are still struggling to feed our realm. And since we never had great problems with starvation I was a bit suprised at the changes.
-
Almost 20.000 people in my city were killed in a VERY short time and we are still struggling to feed our realm. And since we never had great problems with starvation I was a bit suprised at the changes.
Your city didn't lose those people due to the rebalance but due to starvation. And as you could have noticed, it's happened all around the continent. For example, Luria Nova held on to Port Nebel with it going from 30k pop to 1.5k pop. And in the meantime, Giask started starving and revolted. Look at Gelene, look at Libidizzed, look at Chrisantalys. Starved. Rogue. So maybe don't complain so much but welcome the rebalance that brought more food to Dwilight?
-
In regards to Astrum cities, they were already in a bad place in terms of food production. Consider even pre-war they were dependant on food imports to get by. So them revolting was not too surprising, although I assume the changes may have hastened their fall.
-
Prewar, Astrum was able to feed ourselves. The rebalance didn't really have a chance to affect anything for us. We were way to bad off by the time it happened for it change our situation.
-
Almost 20.000 people in my city were killed in a VERY short time and we are still struggling to feed our realm.
To clarify:
Did your city lose 20,000 currently living peasants or 20,000 maximum population?
The former is starvation. The latter is the rebalance. And in nearly all cases, when cities had their populations reduced, it was to help make sure they would not lose more gold due to crime and density effects.
Furthermore, if your city lost maximum population, you should be having an easier time than before feeding it.
-
Almost 20.000 people in my city were killed in a VERY short time and we are still struggling to feed our realm. And since we never had great problems with starvation I was a bit suprised at the changes.
By my calculations, had dwilight ever had full population in all regions, it would have been running a yearly deficit of food. The rebalance therefore should have considerably incrased total food supply potential.
That being said, there are a lot of rogue regions to hide any effects of the rebalance...
-
All I am going to say is that Yule became a junk region after this re-balance. Yule was barely feeding it self before, now it cant really do it on a daily basis.
With a lord and a knight.. each only gets about 37 - 40 gold a tax.. yet the near by city knights make something like 200 - 250 gold each. Well... good for them. As soon as I run out of money I'm going to make my courtiers go unit less. -.-
-
All I am going to say is that Yule became a junk region after this re-balance. Yule was barely feeding it self before, now it cant really do it on a daily basis.
With a lord and a knight.. each only gets about 37 - 40 gold a tax.. yet the near by city knights make something like 200 - 250 gold each. Well... good for them. As soon as I run out of money I'm going to make my courtiers go unit less. -.-
Sounds like it's always been. (Maybe a bit worse, but it never was a very useful region.)
-
All I am going to say is that Yule became a junk region after this re-balance. Yule was barely feeding it self before, now it cant really do it on a daily basis.
With a lord and a knight.. each only gets about 37 - 40 gold a tax.. yet the near by city knights make something like 200 - 250 gold each. Well... good for them. As soon as I run out of money I'm going to make my courtiers go unit less. -.-
Sounds like it's always been. (Maybe a bit worse, but it never was a very useful region.)
Badlands are intentionally very poor regions right now. We are planning to add a different type of utility to those regions (and others) beyond food/gold stats that will make them more attractive.
-
Badlands are intentionally very poor regions right now. We are planning to add a different type of utility to those regions (and others) beyond food/gold stats that will make them more attractive.
That is all well and good, I understand the need to change things... I still have to say that currently it is just is not feasible to have anyone be a knight or lord of Yule, (unless luckily like me they are not part of the realms main army. Such as a priest or a courtier who will not mind not having a unit at all)
The lord will literally take months to improve anything if they never spend a single piece of gold. The knights might as well move to the city if they expect to field a unit of any kind.
The future utility of a region is only useful in the future. If the rebalanced economy was not complete why launch it? Change for the sake of change is not always good change.
(As per the earlier comment that Yule was useless.. I had the region up to 70 ish for a knight and 100 ish for the lord. Not the best, but good enough to have a small police unit and enough gold to keep the region funded and fed.)
I'm not really complaining, I look forward to whatever changes are to come. (However if I wasn't the lord of my self, I would have to recommend to my knight to leave for the city.)
-
I have always seen badland regions as garbage regions but they do hold strategic value so as Duke I was willing to support the Lords with financial aid. I would never want to see a knight holding oath to one of these lords though.
-
So what was the net result in terms of raw food and gold output for Dwilight? I just can't see any difference on the stats page...
-
Well it would have been nice if after the rebalance they set all weather region to "good" so it would be easier to tell the difference.
-
huh so we were right.
-
I have always seen badland regions as garbage regions but they do hold strategic value so as Duke I was willing to support the Lords with financial aid. I would never want to see a knight holding oath to one of these lords though.
Actually, they sound like good regions to give to dukes, since they'll tax all of the other lords of their duchies anyways.
huh so we were right.
Indeed. Will we get to roast more monsters?
-
Actually, they sound like good regions to give to dukes, since they'll tax all of the other lords of their duchy anyways.
Because the greedy duke is so going to settle for a badlands. Every duke I know of has a region, and it is always of a city, stronghold, or townsland.
-
Because the greedy duke is so going to settle for a badlands. Every duke I know of has a region, and it is always of a city, stronghold, or townsland.
I've always wondered about this. Maybe it is far more fun to get all the gold and have to divy it up for every knight in the realm.
Some of the badlands have far better names to be lord of than the cities to me, so I'd prefer to let the mechanics distribute the gold.
-
Because the greedy duke is so going to settle for a badlands. Every duke I know of has a region, and it is always of a city, stronghold, or townsland.
Give me a big enough duchy to tax, and I'll take the desert, I don't mind. ;)
Paisland is of greater emotinal value to Machiavel than it is of fianancial value. He was the first to build that region from the ground up, and did so a few times, and it always served him as a great region when he wasn't lord of Paisly itself.
-
I've actually given up my city and assigned myself a mediocre rural, not to spread around the gold more equally but to create another rich and powerful bastard in my realm.
But speaking a few months later, I admit that it really stings to see a lord earn more than you, his duke... That's why I decided to add another mediocre rural to my personal domain a little while ago when no lord candidate presented himself. It didn't quite help the stingy feeling or my finances but on the plus side, I feel pretty cool ruling directly over two regions. 8)
And it's a good precedent. *whistles*
-
I've actually given up my city and assigned myself a mediocre rural, not to spread around the gold more equally but to create another rich and powerful bastard in my realm.
But speaking a few months later, I admit that it really stings to see a lord earn more than you, his duke... That's why I decided to add another mediocre rural to my personal domain a little while ago when no lord candidate presented himself. It didn't quite help the stingy feeling or my finances but on the plus side, I feel pretty cool ruling directly over two regions. 8)
And it's a good precedent. *whistles*
Run higher ducal taxes!
-
I've actually given up my city and assigned myself a mediocre rural, not to spread around the gold more equally but to create another rich and powerful bastard in my realm.
But speaking a few months later, I admit that it really stings to see a lord earn more than you, his duke... That's why I decided to add another mediocre rural to my personal domain a little while ago when no lord candidate presented himself. It didn't quite help the stingy feeling or my finances but on the plus side, I feel pretty cool ruling directly over two regions. 8)
And it's a good precedent. *whistles*
Hmm, I didn't know you could control more than one?
-
I think dukes also tend to have cities, etc. because that used to be a requirement and most duchies are still from before that change was made. New dukes, admittedly, aren't keen on embracing that change.
-
And there's no reason they have to. The change was to make it possible, not mandatory.
It can, however, be smart. I know of at least a few savvy Dukes who have won themselves lifelong supporters by appointing someone else as the Margrave of a city within their duchy...
-
I think dukes also tend to have cities, etc. because that used to be a requirement and most duchies are still from before that change was made. New dukes, admittedly, aren't keen on embracing that change.
Sure, it's no longer hard-coded that duke=city lord, but lords of cities and townslands are STILL the only candidates to be promoted to become dukes. Dukes also have the power to appoint themselves to their duchy's best region whenever it opens up. Hardly surprising that most dukes are city lords.
And there's no reason they have to. The change was to make it possible, not mandatory.
It can, however, be smart. I know of at least a few savvy Dukes who have won themselves lifelong supporters by appointing someone else as the Margrave of a city within their duchy...
Machiavel was lord of Paisly for large periods of time, but he also wasn't for significant periods of time as well, letting another hold the seat instead. Not sure how common this sort of thing is, but I'm pretty sure it does happen here and there.
-
Sure, it's no longer hard-coded that duke=city lord, but lords of cities and townslands are STILL the only candidates to be promoted to become dukes. Dukes also have the power to appoint themselves to their duchy's best region whenever it opens up. Hardly surprising that most dukes are city lords.
I believe that this is false. If you are a lord of a rural/woodsland/mountain/badlands region, I'm pretty sure you can still be made duke.
-
I believe that this is false. If you are a lord of a rural/woodsland/mountain/badlands region, I'm pretty sure you can still be made duke.
You can be named Duke of an existing Duchy; however, only Margraves can be named Dukes of a new Duchy.
-
I believe that this is false. If you are a lord of a rural/woodsland/mountain/badlands region, I'm pretty sure you can still be made duke.
You can be named Duke of an existing Duchy; however, only Margraves can be named Dukes of a new Duchy.
That's what I meant.
Vacant dukeships are rather rare, and rulers often jump on the opportunity to name themselves dukes when the opportunity arises, due to the fact that 1) they can (wasn't always the case) and 2) it's the only way for them to be able to be lords. New dukes often result from the creation of new duchies, which as stated above, can only be made in cities or townslands.
-
I feel pretty cool ruling directly over two regions. 8)
And it's a good precedent. *whistles*
As far as I can tell, Dunbor is only Lord of Crim. Rafferty is without a Lord. What exactly were you referring to?