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BattleMaster => Locals => Atamara => Topic started by: jaune on April 28, 2014, 07:35:40 AM

Title: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on April 28, 2014, 07:35:40 AM
So, how people see future of Atamara?
It looks like small realms are fading/dying away.

There is 162 non rogue regions atm. Average size of realm is ~15 regions.
There is 2 realms about 30 regions.
There is 2 realms about 20 regions
and 5 realms 8-14 regions.
2 realms 1-2 regions.

There is federation which has:
71 regions combined.
Realms allied with Cagilan Empire including Cagilan Empire itself holds:
142 regions.

Outside this coalition there is 20 regions which belong to realms which are not allied with CE.

Conclusion, CE has won Atamara. But what we can do now?
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on April 28, 2014, 08:23:15 AM
I'm sure the dozens of Falasani, Carelian, Hammard, Ithilian, Estonite, and Makarian nobles who fled to Darka over the years will think of some way to keep fighting CE.

I see that one plan has already been set into motion. ;)
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: stuartalexmc on April 28, 2014, 01:26:29 PM
So that Glacier did so much for war in Atamara...

Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Anaris on April 28, 2014, 02:22:32 PM
So that Glacier did so much for war in Atamara...

The primary purpose of the glacier was never to directly increase or stimulate war.

Whatever changes in the political and military situations on the continents affected by the glaciers and the monsters came about because of the players' decisions. That is the way BattleMaster works.

In this case, from everything I have heard, the realms affected by the glacier on Atamara were too afraid to actually try to do anything about it, so rather than go down fighting, even if it meant their death at the hands of another realm, they just let the ice swallow them up.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Bael on April 28, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
The primary purpose of the glacier was never to directly increase or stimulate war.

Whatever changes in the political and military situations on the continents affected by the glaciers and the monsters came about because of the players' decisions. That is the way BattleMaster works.

In this case, from everything I have heard, the realms affected by the glacier on Atamara were too afraid to actually try to do anything about it, so rather than go down fighting, even if it meant their death at the hands of another realm, they just let the ice swallow them up.

Yes, especially in the case of Kindara, where practically the entire realm was covered by the glacier. That was an awesome decision that Kindara made - to freeze the entire south of their realm. Damn these player decisions! Damn them!

Its was especially foolish on their part to do this, because the distance south from other realms was the only thing that made the war viable. Such silly players.

Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Anaris on April 28, 2014, 03:56:34 PM
Yes, especially in the case of Kindara, where practically the entire realm was covered by the glacier. That was an awesome decision that Kindara made - to freeze the entire south of their realm. Damn these player decisions! Damn them!

Its was especially foolish on their part to do this, because the distance south from other realms was the only thing that made the war viable. Such silly players.

Um...no, actually; I think Kindara's reaction was one of the strongest and most positive I saw. And did you not notice the part where I explicitly said "the realms affected by the glacier on Atamara"?

Kindara and Eponllyn both reacted quite sensibly, in their different ways. Kindara was unlucky enough that the enemy it hoped to take new lands from was able to hold it off for long enough (and now, from what little I hear, they're planning to fight to the death rather than accept living in a reduced realm with a chance to come back later; though it's not the choice I would make, it's their choice), and Eponllyn is small, but still fighting hard to survive in their new home.

There seem to be mixed results with the displaced Dwilight realms, too. Niselur more or less joined Luria, while Barca has now managed to get some new regions carved out of Luria, after some near-disastrous early results of that strategy. I don't know offhand how (or what) Asylon's doing at the moment. Astrum and D'Hara, from what I can see, are just accepting the loss of their western regions, though I would be shocked if D'Hara didn't try to take at least a little more on the eastern mainland from Luria :)

From, again, what little I hear about Atamara, however, Darka has utterly refused to try to take any new lands, and the realms losing land in the east of AT have either tried and failed, or just sort of run around like chickens with their heads cut off until it was too late to try anything. However, I'd be most pleased to be proven wrong in this.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on April 28, 2014, 04:33:58 PM
Darka tried to expand to previous Lyoness lands. Darka tried to co-operate with other realms effected ice. Both were failures.

CE destroyed our army and looted 3 regions to rogue and other realms never replied to our Queens messages as far as i know.

But that is now past, and i'm worried about the future. As i said. 142 regions of 162 regions are allied with each other. That doesnt look too bright and good future as game wise. In real world that would be great :)

-Jaune
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Indirik on April 28, 2014, 05:53:16 PM
There are alliance chains on AT, but they are not solid. There are cracks. Some are wider than others.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Roran on April 28, 2014, 08:12:33 PM
Maybe the possiblity of CE having a civil war should it grow too big is not impossible? Remember that this game cannot be won. Even when a single nation rules an entire continent, the game isn't won. That'd simply mean that everything was reset, and in a sort of way would mean that Atamara would simply be renamed to that nation in a way, and new factions/realms would be born inside of it and fight for power. That even happens without controlling an entire continent.


I don't see any reasons to be pessimistic about this at all in fact.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on April 28, 2014, 08:58:03 PM
Atamara has been a bit similar situations before. But back then we constantly got new players and those who quit through frustrating were not such a big deal. But lets hope you are right and something comes up soon.

And looks like glacier keeps coming to south, so maybby it will start to effect those biggies at center too...

-jaune
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Bael on April 29, 2014, 12:28:44 AM
Um...no, actually; I think Kindara's reaction was one of the strongest and most positive I saw. And did you not notice the part where I explicitly said "the realms affected by the glacier on Atamara"?

hehe, I was more focused on the preceding paragraph, which opened with a blanket statement :P

I still wonder what would have happened if Kindara put their capital in Zonasa instead of the middle of Cathay.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Anaris on April 29, 2014, 12:44:59 AM
I still wonder what would have happened if Kindara put their capital in Zonasa instead of the middle of Cathay.

Well, it might have caused some extra trouble for Zonasa, but it would also have opened Kindara to having their capital assaulted—and probably sacked—very quickly by Arcaea.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on April 29, 2014, 06:27:27 AM
Darka tried to expand to previous Lyoness lands. Darka tried to co-operate with other realms effected ice. Both were failures.

The Hawthorne duchy flies the Darkan flag now. Darka has every single Lyonesse region that is not covered by ice. How is that a failure?

CE destroyed our army and looted 3 regions to rogue and other realms never replied to our Queens messages as far as i know.

Two regions, which Darka promptly retook when CE withdrew to refit. And if you think your Queen is being ignored, then either someone is lying to you, or my PM is creating an elaborate fake conversation with your Queen for some bizarre reason.

We're lathering on the victimization rather thick here, aren't we?

My assessment:
Darka: Annexed Lyonesse. Made out as well as it could have under the situation.
Lyonesse: Was previously reduced to a single duchy realm. Managed to piss off both Darka and CE somehow. Probably would have been annexed by Rieleston, if the ice didn't get to them first.
Rieleston: Lost the duchy of Icegate. Annexed Eston and gained the duchy of Barad Lacirith. That's a net gain. I give them an A+.
Minas Leon: Lost their northern holdings, but they are in no danger of being destroyed, so they can afford to make long term plans, instead of making short term gambles. They are certainly not being idle.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Jens Namtrah on April 29, 2014, 07:13:52 AM
And if you think your Queen is being ignored, then either someone is lying to you, or my PM is creating an elaborate fake conversation with your Queen for some bizarre reason.

What an ironic way to learn that your Old guard really IS silent & excessively close to the chest about plans, eh jaune?  ::)

That beats the Duchess of Azzal dragging half the realm into Talerium without bothering to mention it to anyone first
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on April 29, 2014, 07:23:16 AM
Two regions, which Darka promptly retook when CE withdrew to refit. And if you think your Queen is being ignored, then either someone is lying to you, or my PM is creating an elaborate fake conversation with your Queen for some bizarre reason.

I was referring Rielston & Minas Leon.

I also want to point out... This is about the discussion of FUTURE of Atamara. There is half dozen threads where the glacier and other parts of this project has been discussed.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Jens Namtrah on April 29, 2014, 08:19:55 AM
Well, Talerium is turning out to be terrifically fun to play in so far, even without the thoughts of war. And there are a few little subplots starting. It will take time.

Hopefully players will start to roleplay  a bit more, make new plots & relationships, counter cultures, and then...figure out ways to pick at The Empire. Perhaps something like  the the Roman Empire vs. the constant barbarian threats & Senate plots.

It will sort itself out, if the leaders give players enough freedom to experiment a little
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Eirikr on April 29, 2014, 08:04:39 PM
Lyonesse: Managed to piss off both Darka and CE somehow.

First you start with some miscommunication and then elect a Himoura. Let simmer for a week.

As for the future of Atamara, though, I'm not sure. I think it'll entirely depend on how Darka disperses and who they egg on... There'll be a lull while anti-CE characters are becoming trusted enough to actually take a seat of power anywhere else. I hope it doesn't get too boring in that time...

Then again, maybe the CE will have time for its own internal issues now that it has no clear enemy. It's a fact of human civilization that people are easily united when presented with an enemy, but begin to fragment when they have to work to figure it out.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Indirik on April 29, 2014, 09:39:50 PM
That just means they need to manufacture a new enemy.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Anaris on April 29, 2014, 09:42:51 PM
I think part of the point is, they're running out of regions where an enemy can reside...

However, I think you're actually right. What is most likely to happen in a situation like this (especially if the people in charge of CE, or similar monolithic empire-realm at the heart of such a bloc, are politically savvy and recognize the danger of complacency) is for some of the outlying realms—particularly those almost-most-recently added to the Empire—to be declared somehow in rebellion, and "reconquered." Repeat as needed to keep your populace in line.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on April 30, 2014, 03:57:38 AM
If you are looking to piss of the empire just make a realm called Motoland. It will drive them crazy.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Blue Star on April 30, 2014, 05:15:20 AM
I think part of the point is, they're running out of regions where an enemy can reside...

However, I think you're actually right. What is most likely to happen in a situation like this (especially if the people in charge of CE, or similar monolithic empire-realm at the heart of such a bloc, are politically savvy and recognize the danger of complacency) is for some of the outlying realms—particularly those almost-most-recently added to the Empire—to be declared somehow in rebellion, and "reconquered." Repeat as needed to keep your populace in line.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

I think the CE leadership is a little wiser than that, plus you all forget CE nobles know how to RP quite well and they enjoy it. Never really dull in the realm. mm what sad is everyone is switching their duchies to other realms... I am getting confused on who to speak to who not to speak too. busy busy bees
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on April 30, 2014, 05:59:26 AM
You can talk to moto .... But do you want to speak with the old hag ........ How brave is wind lol.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Indirik on April 30, 2014, 06:10:46 PM
I imagine someone will put on the red shirt and stand up. Even if they have to be volunteered for the "honor" by someone else. It's not too difficult to find someone to go to war with, if you can be pretty confident that you'll win.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on April 30, 2014, 06:23:23 PM
BattleMaster in spaceeee.........
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: LilWolf on May 01, 2014, 12:59:56 PM
From, again, what little I hear about Atamara, however, Darka has utterly refused to try to take any new lands, and the realms losing land in the east of AT have either tried and failed, or just sort of run around like chickens with their heads cut off until it was too late to try anything. However, I'd be most pleased to be proven wrong in this.

Darka didn't refuse. There simply was no chance. It was already in a situation where CE would side with any realm we chose to attack, making any land gains improbable at best. We only managed the former Lyonesse lands because the lord of Hawthorne decided to join us and effectively kill his former realm. The ice simply moved too fast and crippled our recruiting ability while we were defending what little we gained against CE. The preceding Ice Trolls made it that much worse since we lost regions even before the ice took them over. The way the whole thing works really screwed us over and the little bonuses given to help were as good as an insult.

Did I propose a joint action plan with Rieleston and Minas Leon? I did. Rieleston largely didn't bother replying to anything. Maybe after a third letter they'd reply something that didn't address anything I'd asked or said. Minas Leon simply said it was too risky. So yeah..not much you can do in that situation.

That beats the Duchess of Azzal dragging half the realm into Talerium without bothering to mention it to anyone first

You still insist on calling him a her. Don't wonder why he doesn't like you.
Quote
Future of Atamara?

Every day I care less and less about it, but over all I don't see it being that bright.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Blue Star on May 02, 2014, 05:22:46 AM
Every day I care less and less about it, but over all I don't see it being that bright.

Good I'm not the only one feeling this way
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Jens Namtrah on May 02, 2014, 08:43:25 AM
I think the stories of CE having taken over the entire island are just a tad exaggerated. Look at the map.

There only needs an alliance of Realms concerned about that to band together to splinter the whole place again. Depends on leaders being able to shake off "We've always been friends of CE" for a few minutes and look at them as a threat to their own sovereignty, and enough players to get their nobles behind a fight. 
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 02, 2014, 08:49:14 AM
I think the stories of CE having taken over the entire island are just a tad exaggerated. Look at the map.

There only needs an alliance of Realms concerned about that to band together to splinter the whole place again. Depends on leaders being able to shake off "We've always been friends of CE" for a few minutes and look at them as a threat to their own sovereignty, and enough players to get their nobles behind a fight.

:D
Been there, done that.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: trying on May 02, 2014, 09:08:57 AM
Someone ought to set their unit to murderous.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Jens Namtrah on May 02, 2014, 11:19:31 AM
Conversely, if CE are such good role-players, and considering the heady days that must be occurring there right now, perhaps a faction will push to "finish the job" and control the whole island, forcing the issue a bit.

Assuming that isn't already happening.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Eirikr on May 02, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
I think the stories of CE having taken over the entire island are just a tad exaggerated. Look at the map.

There only needs an alliance of Realms concerned about that to band together to splinter the whole place again. Depends on leaders being able to shake off "We've always been friends of CE" for a few minutes and look at them as a threat to their own sovereignty, and enough players to get their nobles behind a fight. 
:D
Been there, done that.

For a minute there, I thought he was quoting Silverfire word for word. (And others before him.)
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Sonya on May 02, 2014, 03:36:58 PM
Whatever changes in the political and military situations on the continents affected by the glaciers and the monsters came about because of the players' decisions. That is the way BattleMaster works.

I agree on this one, on BM specially on Atamara is mostly the player/character decision that made the things like they are now.

I have complained "8950739582" times why on Atamara, the loser realm always join the conqueror. You guys have no idea how easy is to cripple a realm as the Empire in a continent with the size of Atamara.

But on this world (BM) reasons work in strange ways, every new realm brainwash the nobles and makes them forget who was the enemy who destroyed their past realm, and makes them love their past enemies and hold hands.

The Empire has always been CE, Tara & their long time ally Tallerium, the rest are just Posers:

Silnaria
Lyonesse
Minas Leon
Rieleston

All of those realms occupy the same geographical location and even is made of nobles who fought  the Empire before, and now they are allies to it.

Don't talk about regions talk about Players/Nobles, The size of the Empire haven't changed, all what they have done so far is conquered the enemy to make them fight another enemy.


Is too late to blame the Ice....... it has nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 02, 2014, 04:34:11 PM
You forget Suville(Abington)

The problem is that Federation owns half of the continent. It would need other half to be united to compete with it, we had that coalition but it was far from united, so we failed. I doubt there will be anybody anytime soon who would challenge any of the core parts of that alliance. Only hope is that it will have internal strifes which would make it weaker.

-jaune
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on May 02, 2014, 08:24:17 PM
I think the stories of CE having taken over the entire island are just a tad exaggerated.

Well, jaune is the only one saying that, and he is obviously biased. If you are getting beaten, you would want to describe your opponent as some unstoppable monster, so that you don't come off looking too bad for losing.

CE might be the strongest realm on AT (debatable), but she is far from hegemony. Being able to defend herself is a very different thing from being able to subjugate the entire island.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 02, 2014, 08:26:39 PM
I'm not talking about only CE. CE is federated with Tara & Strombran. Thats landmass of over half of Atamara. It is allied with  every other except 20 regions overall on Atamara.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on May 02, 2014, 10:06:13 PM
Jaune has may good points. The empire is evil...... Evil.

It would take a unified front to defeat them because should CE be invaded it would have the backing of Talerium, Tara, and Strombran which is more then half the map now. In the past no one card to join to gather in fear that there realm would be destroyed or they were involved with their own petty wars, fast forward and there realm gets destroyed anyways.

They only thing that would break the empires grasp is if one of their allies turned on them and they have the backing of what ever scrap realms are left.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on May 02, 2014, 10:15:04 PM
I'm not talking about only CE. CE is federated with Tara & Strombran. Thats landmass of over half of Atamara. It is allied with  every other except 20 regions overall on Atamara.

But Darka is not facing Taran or Strombran troops anymore. You are fighting CE forces only.

If you want to go back to when the southern realms were actively working together, it was to defend themselves from the Northern Federation. The match up, as I recall, was CE + Tara + Talerium + Coria versus Darka + Eston + Barony of Makar + Norland + Minas Ithil + Hammarsett + Carelia + Caergoth + Suville. Your side had more landmass, more manpower, and more wealth. Darka did not start out as the underdog.

Your main complaint seems to be "my side lost".
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 02, 2014, 10:30:52 PM
I dont mind losing. Realms i have lead have lost before. Situation now is far worse than it was when that war started, back then we were able to get some sort of agreement to attack CE with that huge coalition. CE did outstanding job, on military sector and especially on diplomatic sector. And our side sucked donkey balls and failed miserably.

Situation now is that there is no way that anybody dares to raise hand against any of the (core)coalition members. Props to Suville that it has conflict  with Tara, even thought Tara seem to have agreed not to attack them as far as i know.

Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on May 02, 2014, 10:49:59 PM
I think your information is incorrect. Norland was long dead before Hammarsett and Hammersett was created when the Empire and friends spanked MI. Eston didnt jump into the fray until after Ml was fourmed I believe.

Suville was also sided with the empire I do believe that they sent forces to Falasan.....

It was long ago so I may also be incorrect.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Penchant on May 02, 2014, 10:55:31 PM
I dont mind losing. Realms i have lead have lost before. Situation now is far worse than it was when that war started, back then we were able to get some sort of agreement to attack CE with that huge coalition. CE did outstanding job, on military sector and especially on diplomatic sector. And our side sucked donkey balls and failed miserably.

Situation now is that there is no way that anybody dares to raise hand against any of the (core)coalition members. Props to Suville that it has conflict  with Tara, even though Tara seem to have agreed not to attack them as far as i know.
Correction. Suville has not had conflict with Tara, they had conflict with Carelia, and Carelia called in their allies to help.
Well, jaune is the only one saying that, and he is obviously biased. If you are getting beaten, you would want to describe your opponent as some unstoppable monster, so that you don't come off looking too bad for losing.

CE might be the strongest realm on AT (debatable), but she is far from hegemony. Being able to defend herself is a very different thing from being able to subjugate the entire island.
What are you talking about? CE is obviously strongest realm on AT and is completely a hegemony.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Indirik on May 02, 2014, 10:56:23 PM
The last war didn't start until after Norland was dead.

Suville started on the non-Empire side, but quickly turned and attacked Carelia when Carelia didn't deliver a promised city to Carelia. Or something like that. Anyway, Suville wasn't really on the non-Empire side very much.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Penchant on May 02, 2014, 11:04:23 PM
The last war didn't start until after Norland was dead.

Suville started on the non-Empire side, but quickly turned and attacked Carelia when Carelia didn't deliver a promised city to Carelia. Or something like that. Anyway, Suville wasn't really on the non-Empire side very much.
I joined the game midwar, so I can't say for sure how long Suville was an ally, but I would say at least 2 months after I joined. The deal was at the end of the war Carelia was to give each realm a duchy. Caergoth demanded theirs midwar before I joined and got it, then Suville demanded theirs. Suville got told no, because we were in the middle of the war and starting to lose so we could not just go and give them a duchy. So Suville flipped sides and CE and Suville looted the crap out of Carelia at the same time.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on May 02, 2014, 11:09:02 PM
We should invade the empire and remove all "holy hand grenade of antioch".

This is the weapon that gives them power!
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on May 03, 2014, 06:00:02 AM
CE did outstanding job, on military sector and especially on diplomatic sector. And our side sucked donkey balls and failed miserably.

Thank you. :) I think you're selling Darka short though. Someday I will find out exactly how large of a pile of gold Darka is still sitting on.

What are you talking about? CE is obviously strongest realm on AT and is completely a hegemony.

Except we couldn't even make a dent in Darka by ourselves so far. Not very impressive for a supposed hegemon. Maybe things will change now that Darka lost three duchies to the ice and another duchy to defection, but any victory after this will be a hollow one.

In a way, CE is a victim of the ice too. A year from now, people will probably say "oh CE only won because the Devs intervened and saved their butts."

The last war didn't start until after Norland was dead.

I went back and re-read some of the old threats. You're right. My bad. We definitely were fighting Hammarsett, though, which was mostly composed of Norland refugees. (No surprises there.)

As for the future, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Doomsayers have been saying "there will be no more wars on [insert island name here] ever again!!1!" for years. And yet someone always volunteers to put on the red shirt in the end.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Noldorin on May 06, 2014, 01:19:29 PM
In a way, CE is a victim of the ice too. A year from now, people will probably say "oh CE only won because the Devs intervened and saved their butts."

A year from now? Now thats funny.

Concretely, you actually did only win because of the ice. Darka had been increasing its borders since your arrival, and unless you would have brought several armies from the south you (CE) would have gained 0 progress in this war since all you managed was to loot some rurals which Darka reclaimed before your next arrival.

Now however CE is attacking and looting a broken, divided and crushed realm. The honour-points for CE keeps on collecting I suppose. From what I hear, CE is refusing to accept the diplomatic surrender of Darka, most likely to build the idea that CE somehow managed to beat Darka by force. If this is not caused by ooc inactivity I consider it truly despicable and dishonourable warfare by a realm trying to manufacture a victory out of falsehood.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on May 06, 2014, 10:07:09 PM
Concretely, you actually did only win because of the ice. Darka had been increasing its borders since your arrival, and unless you would have brought several armies from the south you (CE) would have gained 0 progress in this war since all you managed was to loot some rurals which Darka reclaimed before your next arrival.

You hear that, jaune? Darka was growing bigger! CE made 0 progress! Darka was obviously #winning!

It was a good thing that the Devs saved us.

Now however CE is attacking and looting a broken, divided and crushed realm. The honour-points for CE keeps on collecting I suppose. From what I hear, CE is refusing to accept the diplomatic surrender of Darka, most likely to build the idea that CE somehow managed to beat Darka by force. If this is not caused by ooc inactivity I consider it truly despicable and dishonourable warfare by a realm trying to manufacture a victory out of falsehood.

You should get some better sources, preferably ones that won't lie to you.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Noldorin on May 06, 2014, 11:57:37 PM
You hear that, jaune? Darka was growing bigger! CE made 0 progress! Darka was obviously #winning!

It was a good thing that the Devs saved us.

You ought to learn to see the difference between black and white. Darka was expanding, clear as fact. If you want to deny it, go ahead. Did I say it was at CE's expense? No. Did CE have any kind of progress in the war? No. You looted regions and Darka took them back and had them under full control again when you came back (except when you in the early stages came with several realms armies).


You should get some better sources, preferably ones that won't lie to you.
This means then that CE truly does accept Darkas surrender? The contentious attacks and lootings points to other directions, but Im glad to hear you sharing your thoughts on the issue.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Eirikr on May 07, 2014, 02:19:04 AM
This means then that CE truly does accept Darkas surrender? The contentious attacks and lootings points to other directions, but Im glad to hear you sharing your thoughts on the issue.

I don't want to jump back into this discussion, but I will say: You don't sit around doing nothing when surrender comes on the table. Even if it's being discussed (be it a breakdown in communication or disagreement on terms), you keep pushing. How else do you get the terms you want, regardless of how fair they are?
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 07, 2014, 05:14:22 AM
I don't want to jump back into this discussion, but I will say: You don't sit around doing nothing when surrender comes on the table. Even if it's being discussed (be it a breakdown in communication or disagreement on terms), you keep pushing. How else do you get the terms you want, regardless of how fair they are?

Except those few occasions when Darka was attacking CE i got whined that while i try to negotiate my armies are attacking and negotiations pretty much ended there :)
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Penchant on May 07, 2014, 05:30:19 AM
Except those few occasions when Darka was attacking CE i got whined that while i try to negotiate my armies are attacking and negotiations pretty much ended there :)
If you are looking for peace you don't attack, if you are looking for surrender you do. The point being Darka has no advantage and thus was just angering CE during peace talks. CE is looking for surrender, they get peace regardless its what they get from the surrender that is being determined.

Just because its during surrender talks doesn't make it ok, so you can still bitch about it in ruler's channel if you want, but I don't know how much that will help.

At Noldorin,

I am calling complete BS on the ice being the reason that Darka lost. The ice sped up Darka's loss, but it didn't cause it. Darka was losing that war and it was not improving for Darka. Darka stole some of Lyonesse's regions, good for Darka, they were still losing that war.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 07, 2014, 05:47:57 AM
We were not losing, but we were not winning either :)
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: skiarxon@gmail.com on May 07, 2014, 06:01:35 AM
I am calling complete BS on the ice being the reason that Darka lost. The ice sped up Darka's loss, but it didn't cause it. Darka was losing that war and it was not improving for Darka. Darka stole some of Lyonesse's regions, good for Darka, they were still losing that war.

Give me some of your drugs please. They sure seem cool.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: GoldPanda on May 07, 2014, 06:36:31 AM
You ought to learn to see the difference between black and white. Darka was expanding, clear as fact. If you want to deny it, go ahead. Did I say it was at CE's expense? No. Did CE have any kind of progress in the war? No. You looted regions and Darka took them back and had them under full control again when you came back (except when you in the early stages came with several realms armies).

Um, I was agreeing with you? That's pretty much what I've been telling people for the entire last page on this thread.

Except we couldn't even make a dent in Darka by ourselves so far. Not very impressive for a supposed hegemon.

You just can't please some people, I suppose.  :(

This means then that CE truly does accept Darkas surrender? The contentious attacks and lootings points to other directions, but Im glad to hear you sharing your thoughts on the issue.

... I was going to say something here... but we're not supposed to discuss current IC events here anymore, so I'm keep my mouth shut on this one.

Except those few occasions when Darka was attacking CE i got whined that while i try to negotiate my armies are attacking and negotiations pretty much ended there :)

I think it's fine to attack during negotiations. I also think it's fine to whine about it on the diplomatic channels. For gods's sakes, what are the diplomats supposed to do if they are not even allowed to whine anymore?

We were not losing, but we were not winning either :)

I agree completely. I think Darka had slightly more momentum, though.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Penchant on May 07, 2014, 06:57:11 AM
We were not losing, but we were not winning either :)
Perhaps I should rephrase it. You were going to lose that war. Darka refused to go on the offensive AFAIK. Thus there was no way that war was ever going to end except in a loss for Darka. As was already said, CE was looting your regions rogue thus it was a slow damage. CE is fine, Darka is getting slowly worse. That means Darka will lose the war.

You can't win a war on defense. You can come to peace on the defense, but I don't see CE ever ending that war unless they won or lost, and without Darka on the defense they were never going to lose the war.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 07, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
You cant win war without having border either. CE had already lost her allies to help them. They were able to bring only half of the strenght they used to be able until ice came. Allies of CE were fighting each other... that was where Darka based its defence. CE will lose intrest for that war cause their friends did so, and they were not able to advance on it. Darka had lost its faith to actually win that war long time ago, now their goal was to not lose any regions before the end of war and stay strong force on the island. All did decently until ice came.

We had grown some regions, we were able to defend our self with the income we get without exhausting our gold reserves.

When initial plans about the glacier advance were shown, we even thought we still can keep this war going even if we dont grow with our gold reserves, but ice came much more deeper on Darka side than it was shown on those drawings and we run out of space. We lost so much RC's that we were not able to rebuild our armies and those trolls + CE togheter destroyed those new regions we had acquired.

So, we lost this war for real.

This is not to put CE down, CE was true underdog when this all started. If we had planned this better and everybody would have commited to this war for real. CE would have been beaten. But our coalition sucked so much.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Forbes Family on May 11, 2014, 03:25:43 AM
I got a funny feeling AT is about to explode.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Blue Star on May 16, 2014, 05:53:18 AM
Explode or Implode?

Depends on how you see the current situation  ;D

Man the walls gather the militia... Who are we fight?.... Just get ready!
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Indirik on May 16, 2014, 06:50:31 PM
I got a funny feeling AT is about to explode.
Nothing has happened yet, so far as I can see. Does this qualify as a hangfire or a dud?
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Sonya on May 16, 2014, 08:41:36 PM
Well...  :o

scratches head

SOOoooo... Carelia is Federate with the Empire now.... that means we fight Darka now?

shrugs  ???
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 16, 2014, 09:21:43 PM
Darka vs. Carelia would be even fight :) Both have 2 regions, Darka more nobles thought... but Carelia better economy :P

-Jaune
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Andre on May 16, 2014, 10:18:51 PM
Yeah it doesnt look good for you Darkans, you better join Talerium, i heard they were really nice, you can likely chat with the other Darkans :P.
(Newb here, dont know anything about previous history of Atamara!)
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Indirik on May 16, 2014, 11:11:13 PM
Darka vs. Carelia would be even fight :) Both have 2 regions, Darka more nobles thought... but Carelia better economy :P
Hey, waitaminnit! We're not done with them Carelians yet!  >:(
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on May 16, 2014, 11:23:25 PM
Hey, waitaminnit! We're not done with them Carelians yet!  >:(
Yeah, we have to take care of CE too, so Carelia first take care of you and we take CE... after that friendly duel between Carelia and Darka  ;)
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: jaune on June 12, 2014, 02:11:34 PM
I woke up this morning and were very tired and bad mood... drove to work and were still pissed off to every single thing at this world... logged in BM and readed the news my mood was still bad... until i realized... and i saw the light. Clouds went off from my mind and i giggled like a baby... and giggling became to laughing and laughing becmae to maniac laughing...

Rielston finished its TO of Hawthorne, and Thyk became Margrave and Hawthorne is part of Nazamroth Duchy Talerium... Oh boy, this day turned good day :)

Gotta see how Rielston and Talerium relations progress...
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Dante Silverfire on August 10, 2014, 07:14:51 PM
:D
Been there, done that.


For a minute there, I thought he was quoting Silverfire word for word. (And others before him.)

Hey now...

I think I was a lot more pragmatic than that. I usually wouldn't make statements without also taking action.
Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Thehatter on August 11, 2014, 04:07:09 AM
Moto* is excited to see some one post in the Atamara forum and even better its Silver fire.

Title: Re: Future of Atamara
Post by: Eirikr on August 12, 2014, 06:16:27 AM
Hey now...

I think I was a lot more pragmatic than that. I usually wouldn't make statements without also taking action.

Hey there, how ya been?

True, you did always take the leap, too. I just tried to be conveniently placed when you did. :P