BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Madigan on June 26, 2014, 03:39:09 AM
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Hello everybody,
You may or may not know me, which is fine, as I tend to steer away from the forums. I've been playing since I was thirteen, over eight years now, first as the Jazuma family, now as Madigan. Over the years, and transitioning from being a kid to an adult within the community, I have seen my fair share of ups and downs, strife, turmoil, camaraderie, kindness, and moments that seem quintessential to this amazing game. Nothing has ever held my interest longer than Battle Master, and I look forward to many more years of play.
That said, of late, there are things which drive my interest, commitment, and appreciation for this beloved world downward. OOC feuds, metagaming, vitriol, questionable movements by the development team (and I will say here that, by and large, I consider them to be selfless, heroic, passionate people), and gridlock within game have all adversely affected mine and, I'd assume, other players' experiences.
I think the biggest casualty for me, however, is to see these things cause players to leave the game entirely. After the Ice Age, I saw accounts drop like flies, during OOC wars I saw people leave in a huff, and I have definitely witnessed players leaving due to either not being part of the metagaming or out of dissatisfaction with larger game decisions.
This game has never had a huge player count, thankfully in some aspects, but we seem to be dwindling.
I think the reason, the blame in a sense, lies with all of us. For not being proactive members of a community, for not playing fair. I include myself in this. That many of our players seem to see the game as a private clubhouse, or a way to carry out personal vendettas, or else use untoward or outside methods in an attempt to 'win'. I see this as the most pressing affliction of our community.
Imagine a new player, or as casual player, feeling cut off from the secret canals that manipulate the game (I'm being hyperbolic, but I think you'll see my point). Imagine being exposed to OOC problems that drive you away from the game (I think people on the new War Islands might understand what I mean, by way of recent example).
Try and remember what your first day, week, month was like in this game. And maybe we can return to that more idyllic state.
Maybe this is all in my head, or I'm overreacting, but I've wanted to express this for a long time.
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Also, this was written from my phone, so if there are errors or unclear thoughts, I apologize. I swear my English degree isn't for show.
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Well I deleted my character when I felt I was too attached cause I felt I was starting to take things too personally.
Gotta say starting fresh does help a lot with that. Just delete/pause and move on to a new younger character on a different realm full of people you haven't played before.
I must agree the game has changed over the years. When I first started, the atmosphere was less serious(I blame SMA for this!) and people were more casual. They also did a lot of silly things. These days if you do something silly you get branded as a traitor or an idiot.
Either people have lost their sense of humor or the game got a lot more serious than before. Also, there are too many people who want to mess things up than try to do something together with others.
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Imagine a new player, or as casual player, feeling cut off from the secret canals that manipulate the game (I'm being hyperbolic, but I think you'll see my point). Imagine being exposed to OOC problems that drive you away from the game (I think people on the new War Islands might understand what I mean, by way of recent example).
Try and remember what your first day, week, month was like in this game. And maybe we can return to that more idyllic state.
As a very new player (less than 2 months), I would like to comfort you by saying that BM is actually very newbie friendly and I'm having a blast.
Not only I don't feel "cut off" from any game's avenue, but some veteran realm-mates even seem to go out of their way to help and promote my characters.
On the other hand, some old players got really entangled in OOC friendships and animosities, which of course steals a huge chunk of fun from them. And some seem to not be content with being just players and go pushing admins' buttons.
So I wouldn't worry about new players at all, but you're right that old players apparently grew to treat this game somewhat differently and it is the main source of their disappointment with it.
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My only regret in the last few years is that I lack the time I used to have to play this game, meaning I lack the time and effort to help create a good atmosphere in the realms I play in.
When in high school there used to be times that me and Lorgan would chat about Battlemaster all day long, get home, and type stuff out on our computer. We would design religions that way - shape realms. Growing up sucks.
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When I first started, the atmosphere was less serious(I blame SMA for this!) and people were more casual. They also did a lot of silly things. These days if you do something silly you get branded as a traitor or an idiot.
I started a year ago or so and I did wonder why everyone is so serious here %)
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I really like the more serious atmosphere. I remember playing back during the last days of Norland and all the silly RP was irritating to me. Seriously, a 'viking' leader with a bushy tail? I'll take SMA everywhere over that again. At the same time, I also remember feeling more clued in back then. Most chatter was realm wide and the environment felt inclusive (not just in Norland).
Of late, I always dread the first few days of near silence after creating a new character. No estate, no army, no groups == little chatter. I have heard that getting an estate and thus an army assignment is a lot easier now but have not tried it myself. I still think it would be awesome if you could get assigned to an army by Leader or General even if you don't have an estate!
Of course, a lot of this is player driven. Most realms I have been in over the last few years seemed to be obsessed with relying on a small, trusted, inner circle for very valid in character reasons. One of my older characters had to fight like a madman to try and keep things inclusive back during the founding of Barca and that was amongst a group of fairly welcoming individuals. I remember the back and forth between Galvez and myself on the matter!
Now I am rambling...
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Apologize if my post too long. I feel I need to contribute to this topic.
1) My Introduction
First, let me introduce myself. I played as Ketchum family on a few islands like East Continent(EC), Colonies, Atamara, Far East Island. Due to my playfulness, I avoid Dwilight due to what they called SMA(Serious Medieval Atmosphere) and the description kind of scaring me away. I guess that SMA label is a bit intimidating for me for now still. As I am more of the light and funnier side players and not so heavily into Roleplays which SMA seems to be about, some players do encourage me to go and experience Dwilight island.
2) My part as member of the BM community
Probably due to my playfulness, I tend to create Roleplays and include other into them as well if they like to. Also partly due to my job of training people in my work line, I took up Mentor class regularly in almost all my characters. One of my most memorable experiences is having mentoring many new players, which give me a lot of pleasure of watching them growing up their characters. One such new player did not want to embrace the realm sanctioned religion, he instead devoted himself to pray to the tree and hug the tree. I have been suggesting on forum for quite sometime about having more perks and benefits for Mentor so that the older players can give back something to the BM community; The older players understand the game mechanic much better than the rest, and if we give them some ways to teach, train, guide and nurture the newer players besides the newbie tutorials, it gives some incentive and encouragement to older players. Most older players went through growing up period, some of us become parents in our own right and teaching our kids along the way. I also try my best to include as many players into my schemes as well, lot of conflicts, sharing of information that not regularly share out by Rulers, Military Leaders to normal Knights and Region Lords. As Rulers and Region Lords, I try to promote my knights and my nobles to become Region Lords, and taking more responsibilities as long as they can. I willing to guide them and teach all I know about Battlemaster knowledge, mechanic to them. There have been instances where I even take a step back to become normal Knight when I feel my busy Real Life catching up with me or when I feel there are more worthy candidates for the leaderships than me. I not sure why but somehow I end up climbing the leadership ladders, probably due to my knowledge and my letters.
3) My characters and whether they reflect my player in any way
And if I wish to share more, there are some evil sides to my character, as not all characters can be perfect. Jaron is probably the only one player who can guess my actions correctly as I talked with him about Battlemaster outside the game. Both of us are from same country, Malaysia, which is most likely why we both able to talk easily due to same culture. Though we do our own ways of course, he has his own style, as do I. If truth be known, one of my characters somehow shaped an island landscape to what it is today. I cannot share much here what evil my character has done, as some of them are still ongoing. Jaron, I am still not evil enough :P
I do enjoy playing with the rest of you. Who can forget Hendrix family and Jaron family just to name a few.
4) My first day, week, month, year in Battlemaster
Ah, the new player experience that we all should remember and recall, thus sharing and helping the new players on their first journeys to a lifetime of playing the game. I recalled starting my first character Ash in Oritolon realm on Colonies island. At that time it was war between Oritolon realm and Alowca realm, which almost settled down. As the war completed with demise of Alowca realm, I became the Region Maintenance Master, Courtier class, then Mentor, then slowly rose up from a normal Knight to Region Steward, then Region Lord when the lord went missing. In fact, I would stress that Region Steward and the amount of Region Maintenance Master made me understand few unknown game mechanic, especially to a new player like myself back then. I learn and appreciate Civil Work, Policework, Survey Admin. Then I moved to learn to manage food in a region warehouse as a Region Steward, which later influenced me greatly to give every new players characters Region Steward role and taught them everything I know about food and trade management stuff. Some new players are keen to get involve straight away in region affairs, especially in time of peace and no war. This gives them something to do, as they ask questions and we give answers to them, providing that much missing interaction between players/characters. I think our game should emphasize on this part if we wish to improve further. You will be surprise to know that Region Steward can be enjoyable experience for some players, as much as Mentor does(Although in game there is no title as Region Steward when you send out your message as Steward).
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Well I deleted my character when I felt I was too attached cause I felt I was starting to take things too personally.
Gotta say starting fresh does help a lot with that. Just delete/pause and move on to a new younger character on a different realm full of people you haven't played before.
This.
We really need more people willing to take a break instead of deleting.
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I still think it would be awesome if you could get assigned to an army by Leader or General even if you don't have an estate!
Pro Tip: If you are a noble without an estate or lordship, you can assign yourself to an army. Go to the Politics menu and you will find an option to assign yourself to an army. Enjoy!
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Of course, a lot of this is player driven. Most realms I have been in over the last few years seemed to be obsessed with relying on a small, trusted, inner circle for very valid in character reasons.
This is an unfortunate truth. It's hard to be inclusive when you know that every message you send to the realm will most likely be sent by someone in your realm to all of your enemies or potential enemies.
Case in point: When Eponllyn was migrating north to flee the ice advance, we ordered all of our people to bring siege engines in case something happened and we needed them. We didn't plan on needing them, but you never know. When we got to Oligarch and started talking to the ruler of Westmoor, he insisted that we came north specifically to attack them, because we ordered all of our people to bring siege engines. WTF?! How does the ruler of a potentially hostile foreign realm know that our army was ordered to bring siege engines with them?
This kind of behavior, sharing realm messages with hostile foreign powers, is why planning is done in secret. Of course that makes people cranky because they don't like being left out, and then more likely to share information with other realms to lash out at their government, which makes those in power control information even closer, etc., etc. Begin vicious circle...
Anyway, this is one of the more recent examples I remember of how being open and inclusive with your whole realm came back and bit me in the ass.
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Pro Tip: If you are a noble without an estate or lordship, you can assign yourself to an army. Go to the Politics menu and you will find an option to assign yourself to an army. Enjoy!
That is awesome! Was this added recently or was I simply unable to find it? It has been almost a year since I last played...
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If you left a year ago, then it was probably added after you left. But it has been there for many months.
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This kind of behavior, sharing realm messages with hostile foreign powers, is why planning is done in secret. Of course that makes people cranky because they don't like being left out, and then more likely to share information with other realms to lash out at their government, which makes those in power control information even closer, etc., etc. Begin vicious circle...
I do not mind the occasional ferret it makes the game fun. I would not mind losing a battle due to such treachery. It makes the game fun in my opinion. I would honestly rather lose most battles to to information leaks if it was the cost of being open and inclusive. It is just sacrificing one form of fun for another to me. I am even naive enough to believe that by maintaining a friendly, inclusive realm people who come to cheat you may just be won over. A guy can dream right?
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If you left a year ago, then it was probably added after you left. But it has been there for many months.
I haven't left... Just taking an extended break. With three boys and a new baby on the way I felt I had to prioritize my time. The baby is now here and just about old enough for me to start up again! Or perhaps I am just unable to resist that little itch I get whenever I skim the forums much longer...
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Case in point: When Eponllyn was migrating north to flee the ice advance, we ordered all of our people to bring siege engines in case something happened and we needed them. We didn't plan on needing them, but you never know. When we got to Oligarch and started talking to the ruler of Westmoor, he insisted that we came north specifically to attack them, because we ordered all of our people to bring siege engines. WTF?! How does the ruler of a potentially hostile foreign realm know that our army was ordered to bring siege engines with them?
Because a couple of Eponllyn nobles came to Westmoor and joined us because they didn't agree with Eponllyn's hostile attitude to the Southern Alliance, and Westmoor in particular. They said, "Hey, Eponllyn is planning to attack Westmoor". Combined with some other diplomatic stuff that was going on, it was more than enough to persuade Thomas and others that Eponllyn had hostile intent.
There was no 'spying' or "sharing realm messages with hostile foreign powers". Just an old fashioned defection by dissidents.
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I do not mind the occasional ferret it makes the game fun. I would not mind losing a battle due to such treachery. It makes the game fun in my opinion. I would honestly rather lose most battles to to information leaks if it was the cost of being open and inclusive. It is just sacrificing one form of fun for another to me. I am even naive enough to believe that by maintaining a friendly, inclusive realm people who come to cheat you may just be won over. A guy can dream right?
^^^^ Muy Importante.
Keeping your plans secret from your realm is the reaction of control freaks with trust issues.
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Because a couple of Eponllyn nobles came to Westmoor and joined us because they didn't agree with Eponllyn's hostile attitude to the Southern Alliance, and Westmoor in particular. They said, "Hey, Eponllyn is planning to attack Westmoor". Combined with some other diplomatic stuff that was going on, it was more than enough to persuade Thomas and others that Eponllyn had hostile intent.
There was no 'spying' or "sharing realm messages with hostile foreign powers". Just an fashioned defection by dissidents.
That's not exactly what happened but this isn't the thread for it. They didn't join Westmoor until after we had Oligarch and we banned them and you knew about it before then. Also I'm sorry to say they lied to you because we weren't planning to attack Westmoor.
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That's not exactly what happened but this isn't the thread for it. They didn't join Westmoor until after we had Oligarch and we banned them and you knew about it before then. Also I'm sorry to say they lied to you because we weren't planning to attack Westmoor.
No, we had at least one noble from Eponllyn join us while you were still in the south. But, as you say, we don't want to derail this thread into a history discussion. Plus, with hindsight and since the ripples from it are still being played out in the game, maybe it's best to keep the info in-game.
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I haven't left... Just taking an extended break. With three boys and a new baby on the way I felt I had to prioritize my time. The baby is now here and just about old enough for me to start up again! Or perhaps I am just unable to resist that little itch I get whenever I skim the forums much longer...
Heh. I remember when Indirik here got his new child. Made him quite busy 8)
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They still keep me busy. :D And probably will for at least the next 16 years.
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Well I deleted my character when I felt I was too attached cause I felt I was starting to take things too personally.
Gotta say starting fresh does help a lot with that. Just delete/pause and move on to a new younger character on a different realm full of people you haven't played before.
You sure your accident hasn't scrambled your brain too? :P
But seriously, this. This! It links to another point in the Atanamir thread which is we have to stop seeing people as "the enemy". Before I played in two realms with Tony here, I saw him as "the enemy" because he was prominent as a Ruler of Sirion and as such wouldn't give him the time of day. Now I play with him in Westmoor and in Sandalak and I actually see he's a nice bloke who's trying to make things interesting.
In nearly three years of playing, the biggest thing to try and do is just jump in to new places and see where it takes you. You may find yourself pleasantly surprised. And if not.. try again! I've got one noble free at the moment and to be honest, I'm not sure where I'd put him/her. Atamara is the only island I haven't played yet (bar Colonies and that was only briefly in Outer Tilog).
Also, on the topic of being busy.. I know the feeling, though not children (my new wife and I are considering that *next* year) - I emigrated to the US to be with her this January just gone and it's taken years of planning and paperwork. And there's still at least another 3-4 to go.
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But seriously, this. This! It links to another point in the Atanamir thread which is we have to stop seeing people as "the enemy".
I highly recommend this, as well. I've never gone back to a realm after a character has been killed or moved on. And so far, I've only really been disappointed once. Getting to know new people, and new situations and viewpoints on the political situation, is pretty cool.
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I highly recommend this, as well. I've never gone back to a realm after a character has been killed or moved on. And so far, I've only really been disappointed once. Getting to know new people, and new situations and viewpoints on the political situation, is pretty cool.
I'm always sitting on same area with my chars :D Chars change, realms change... but I will be there. Central Atamara i havent been for a while.
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Of course, a lot of this is player driven. Most realms I have been in over the last few years seemed to be obsessed with relying on a small, trusted, inner circle for very valid in character reasons.
It's all player driven! I think sometimes people forget that realms are really a reflection of their rulers and their histories. A realm fighting for its survival against multiple enemies, spies and assassins, is going to be a lot more paranoid and dark than a realm that is at peace and harmony with all of its neighbors. A friendly ruler will run a friendly realm. An isolated recluse of a ruler will not be running as friendly of a realm.
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I think the reason, the blame in a sense, lies with all of us. For not being proactive members of a community, for not playing fair. I include myself in this. That many of our players seem to see the game as a private clubhouse, or a way to carry out personal vendettas, or else use untoward or outside methods in an attempt to 'win'. I see this as the most pressing affliction of our community.
in my opinion, being "constructively proactive" means playing in-game and stay away from other means. as you will be ignored most of time as almost all important communication went ooc, you can be "proactive" in different way - to fight for forums shutdown and to push titans to fight against ooc clans. that "proactivity is hopeless, though as after some considerations forums stayed alive and ooc clans are the most protected bm asset...
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They still keep me busy. :D And probably will for at least the next 16 years.
Make it 30, or, probably, forever. You just need to find time for your interests.
I try to be at the game as much as possible and when I cannot, I leave my chars doing nothing at some safe place till I can play again.
I need to say the last years didnt allow me to play as before but I have good times anyway.
I learned to enjoy the small things and don't expect too much but I am lucky to be in realms that give me good times very often.
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huh.
It's funny. For all the talk about the us vs them thing, ultimately it's about player/character separation. I've played against a lot of players on the ''other'' side, but not hated them. Case in point, players of the Indiriks, Ecthelions, Kronagos', even ''of Astora'', who just killed my main character, all fun to play with. My family even declared a blood feud against the ''of Astora's'', and half of my characters aren't planning on doing anything just because it doesn't fit with their character personas. But with some of mine it serves as an interesting thing to play through.
Ironically, the only family who I truly have thought of as ''the enemy'' since I've started playing is the ''of Umbar''
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EDIT: Moved to other thread... got created while I was posting.
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This thread has now been split, with the spying discussion moved to its own thread (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5949.0.html).