BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => East Island => Topic started by: Gustav Kuriga on July 28, 2014, 09:38:42 AM
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Please, just do it. Yes, some of our noble characters are being roleplayed as hot-headed, but the majority of us players just want it to end. While I'm on the side who agreed with the ban of a certain player who I won't mention here, as it will just lead to a flame war, the sudden loss of players as they paused/deleted their characters in protest has devastated the realm. We're barely able to put lords into regions, let alone fight a war. It isn't fun any more.
No, I'm not whining that we're losing, but when we start asking for terms and the first response we get is a letter that is basically telling us too go !@#$ off (my own interpretation, not the exact words), it is very disheartening to continue trying to rebuild the realm knowing that we're at the same time in a hopeless war against those who want to tear it down.
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Sounds like Karma is pounding Perdan.
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Why not just play it out?
If you are tired of the war, immigrate to somewhere else.
I don't know if it is just the way it seems to me, but since coming back to this game I see more "OOC fix-its" than any time I can think of. You've still got 37 nobles - the second most on the island - so someone must be sticking around for some reason.
If it's no fun, jump on a boat. Otherwise - what is happening is happening. Play through it, like was always expected of you in the past.
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I have no IC sympathy for Perdan so I'd want to cover them in death and destruction, as payback for all the atrocities they have committed in the past against realms both small and big, still living or extinct. As for OOC stuff, well, the loss of those nobles is quite bad since they were the upper nobility I guess. You just need a strong leader to come up reverse the odds!
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I have no IC sympathy for Perdan so I'd want to cover them in death and destruction, as payback for all the atrocities they have committed in the past against realms both small and big, still living or extinct. As for OOC stuff, well, the loss of those nobles is quite bad since they were the upper nobility I guess. You just need a strong leader to come up reverse the odds!
I can bet you that many of these current noble either had no control over or were not here for those actions. Not to mention that since all the upper nobility are the ones that left, we still haven't replaced all of the lordships. Scio is one of those in which there is no lord.
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Do you understand that just because they are leaving, it does not change what their characters did in game until now, right!?
Perdan promised many times to destroy Sirion in the figure of at least 3 Kings. The OOC does not change IC history. Many people in Sirion wants to punish Perdan.
Perdan did it to itself and I doubt you will fix it OOC. When you ask for surrender you must handle the consequences, accept the terms or continue fighting. Sirion did it many times, with the difference that we won against our enemies instead of accept many shameful offers. Perdan always vowed to destroy Sirion and divide it among its allies, building colonies. I believe it's not so fun when it happens against yourself.
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If you take over responsibility for a realm from the people or groups that previously held that responsibility, that means you inherit responsibility for their decisions, whether you agreed with them or not.
You do get the opportunity to try to convince the world that you are not, in fact, enough like them that you should be considered the same realm, but that is—and should be—an uphill battle.
If the issue is that the previous King was foul-mouthed and outspoken in his personal hatred of certain other rulers or realms, you've got a decent chance of persuading people that you're going to be different.
If, on the other hand, your realm has, for many years and through multiple rulers, adopted policies and made statements favouring the destruction of a certain realm for deeply-seated cultural reasons, there's very little chance you'll be able to get them to see you as different.
And, after all, unless you've also uprooted that underlying culture, you probably aren't.
In Perdan's case, yeah, a bunch of the Old Guard left. But it's still a very long way from a hostile takeover by a rival internal faction, and I've seen those be treated with deep skepticism even on Beluaterra, which tends to be a much more dynamic continent. On the EC...yeah, no. You're Perdan; you better get used to the political positions Perdan has held for the past decade, because they'll take a loooong time to get yourselves out from under.
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Well look at that, another player left. Fun times. Definitely for the health of the game.
I understand that you want to do your roleplaying and everything, but sometimes OOC considerations, like say, the health of the game, should outweigh IC ones. Once again, it isn't that we're losing that I'm saying something. It's that any and all attempts to negotiate a surrender are being refused. It isn't even a war anymore, it's just a !@#$ing curbstomp.
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It isn't even a war anymore, it's just a !@#$ing curbstomp.
In this entire war, which started in RL 4 months ago, this is the first time that Sirion and allies actually set foot in Perdan's lands. We've looted a bit, one region is being taken over, the TO not over yet.
The first attempt at a negotiated end was made a whopping 36 hours ago.
Aren't you overselling your case a little?
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It's that any and all attempts to negotiate a surrender are being refused.
This is wrong. Completely wrong. 1,000% wrong.
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Well look at that, another player left. Fun times. Definitely for the health of the game.
I understand that you want to do your roleplaying and everything, but sometimes OOC considerations, like say, the health of the game, should outweigh IC ones. Once again, it isn't that we're losing that I'm saying something. It's that any and all attempts to negotiate a surrender are being refused. It isn't even a war anymore, it's just a !@#$ing curbstomp.
ANY realm death, or even just when a realm is doing badly leads to players leaving. What is so special about Perdan that it deserves special treatment that no other struggling realm in all the years of BM deserved? In a game that focuses on warfare, logically when people are losing a war you will have those that quit.
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No, I'm not whining that we're losing, but when we start asking for terms and the first response we get is a letter that is basically telling us too go !@#$ off
I have seen letters to the contrary.
It isn't even a war anymore, it's just a !@#$ing curbstomp.
Uhh, we have had like one or two battles since it happened and now we are still taking over the first of your regions that we have got to. We aren't exactly rampaging through your regions burning them to the ground and chasing down your armies. Which is by the way what Perdan did to us :p
The nature of the game is that realms rise and fall in power and some realms die completely and it's not even certain Perdan will die. Too many players take it too personally and overreact that if their one favourite realm is threatened it's all over but keep playing and you never know what will happen in the future, there are plenty of avenues for revenge.
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Please, just do it. Yes, some of our noble characters are being roleplayed as hot-headed, but the majority of us players just want it to end. While I'm on the side who agreed with the ban of a certain player who I won't mention here, as it will just lead to a flame war, the sudden loss of players as they paused/deleted their characters in protest has devastated the realm. We're barely able to put lords into regions, let alone fight a war. It isn't fun any more.
No, I'm not whining that we're losing, but when we start asking for terms and the first response we get is a letter that is basically telling us too go !@#$ off (my own interpretation, not the exact words), it is very disheartening to continue trying to rebuild the realm knowing that we're at the same time in a hopeless war against those who want to tear it down.
You get what you give. How often did Perdan's players/(circle of friends of player you won't mention) give one iota about their enemy player's fun or easing up on a war or surrender terms? If you play a realm aggressively, expect that realm to be dealt with aggressively when it falls. Perdan isn't the first and it won't be the last.
As for the IC terms offered, I don't believe you were told to !@#$ off (even with leeway for your interpretation). You were told by a very old character that he's been betrayed by Perdan many many times before, so he's cautious about 'deals'. Therefore, sit in a city during the remainder of terms discussion instead of the realms you're surrendering to leaving your lands. I actually think that is rather novel - enemy armies literally sitting around a realm while terms are discussed and the surrendering realm remains garrisoned in the city.
It's that any and all attempts to negotiate a surrender are being refused.
Absolutely not true.
Why not just play it out?
If you are tired of the war, immigrate to somewhere else.
I don't know if it is just the way it seems to me, but since coming back to this game I see more "OOC fix-its" than any time I can think of. You've still got 37 nobles - the second most on the island - so someone must be sticking around for some reason.
If it's no fun, jump on a boat. Otherwise - what is happening is happening. Play through it, like was always expected of you in the past.
This. Completely. In every way. Vote with your feet. I used to stick in realms for roleplay reasons, but having learned to just move somewhere that looks fun instead of sticking around - I enjoy the game far more, even when I'm barely playing.
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Ok. I've left. Have fun with that.
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You get what you give. How often did Perdan's players/(circle of friends of player you won't mention) give one iota about their enemy player's fun or easing up on a war or surrender terms? If you play a realm aggressively, expect that realm to be dealt with aggressively when it falls. Perdan isn't the first and it won't be the last.
I'd go one step further here and say not just enemy players but allied players too as far as other people's fun. If you don't like what's happening, then you have numerous options. I didn't like the fall of Westmoor so I had my character defect (and he consequently died for his new realm), and that was fun to do. I didn't enjoy the fact that the Church of Humanity on EC had become a politicized faith with everything conducted behind closed doors. Nothing had been said in the public halls for quite some time, maybe even on the scale of months. So, I removed Ravier (and even then I was informed OOCly that people were glad he'd pissed off) and began working on the concept for a different faith.
In other words it comes down to "Don't like something? Do something!". From what I've seen, Lappy is trying to do just that and being decried by certain others for it.
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This is why you invest yourself in more than one realm. You get to know different players and you don't stand to lose everything in 1 war.
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Hmm. Leave for a while come back to this.
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Hmm. Leave for a while come back to this.
\o/ T STRIKE! Welcome back buddy.
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Losing is part of the game. At any one time, odds are there are almost as many losers as there are winners.
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Realms I've been in that were destroyed:
Sartania, Ash Sea Islands, NeoSartania, Mesh and Hetland.
Did I quit playing after any of those? Did I come whining to the forums asking people to spare my realm for OOC reasons? Hell no.
Realms fight wars. Sometimes they get destroyed. Deal with it. Losing can be a really fun experience. The best times I've had in this game were Sartanians travelling from one realm to another in exile in an attempt to find a new place to live.
What's more, in this case, it's quite clear that Perdan still has a good chance of not being destroyed and, if it is destroyed, it will only be because that's exactly what Perdan has wanted to do to the realms it's now losing to. If OOCly you don't want your realm destroyed then a first step would be don't try to destroy the realms of others. It's really not complicated.
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... Perdan still has a good chance of not being destroyed and, if it is destroyed, it will only be because that's exactly what Perdan has wanted to do to the realms it's now losing to.
If Perdan is destroyed, it will be because they want to be destroyed. If that happens, they'll just be added to the long list of realms that refused to surrender. Which will be sad. They are, after all, the *first* realm of BattleMaster. (Island 1, Realm 1.)
Perdan has, in the past, accepted extremely harsh surrender terms from their enemies. Both times they have bounced back and become a giant, only to eventually burn out. I had a character in Perdan that went through these cycles, once as the ruler. If the core of the realm can hold together, then this is a great source of motivation and backstory for characters. Not to mention that the explosive regrowth when you finally get going again is an awesome experience.
Caligus has been through the same thing, too. Sirion, not so much. They've been beaten back, and had their nose bloodied quite badly, but never to the point of near-extinction.
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I doubt people are thinking about destroy Perdan. Take some regions? Yes. Destroy the entire realm? I doubt. It's different from the last Kings' previous speech to destroy Sirion to the ground and divide it at will.
Nothing different of any war in BM. I had my part of destroyed/defeated realms as everyone else.
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In a game that has more than a single player, sometimes things will not always go your way. Deal with it, make the best of it that you can, and try to have as much fun with it as possible.
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Losing is part of the game. At any one time, odds are there are almost as many losers as there are winners.
I would disagree with this point. Gang-bangs seem to happen often enough to create a disparity at any given time. Although, having so many 'winners' typically makes winning cheap...but if a smaller group/realm can overcome insurmountable odds, their glorious win has some meaning.
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If Perdan is destroyed, it will be because they want to be destroyed. If that happens, they'll just be added to the long list of realms that refused to surrender. Which will be sad.
Well, sometimes surrenders are not accepted(I have no clue if this is case here). Example Darka. CE wanted it dead and no other options available.
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Well, sometimes surrenders are not accepted(I have no clue if this is case here). Example Darka. CE wanted it dead and no other options available.
Yes but last time I was on the island which wasn't too long ago, he was ruler of a realm on the other side of the war, which makes him quite qualified to state that surrenders can be accepted but with the victors terms.
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Like what our good old friend Alexandros used to say, RP it. That is my answer. Just play it through. Losing a war isn't a big deal. If you don't want to lose be like me, be on the both sides! You can never lose!
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There is a common belief that if you are on both sides of a war then one of them is kept for spying.
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There is a common belief that if you are on both sides of a war then one of them is kept for spying.
True. But if you stick around long enough and follow orders all the time, they will eventually give up on trying to get rid of you and let you stay around. Westmoor is a good example :) Then again, people in that realm already knew me so... wait they knew me as their former enemy #1!
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There is a common belief that if you are on both sides of a war then one of them is kept for spying.
There are some families that often end up on both sides of a conflict, and whom have established enough trust that most would not think they are spying. Besides is that their character thinking, or paranoid players.
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There are some families that often end up on both sides of a conflict, and whom have established enough trust that most would not think they are spying. Besides is that their character thinking, or paranoid players.
So much this. It's a player reaction brought into character actions, and it's one of the little things that work to suck the fun out of the game.
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It's not paranoia if it's true. It has happened, and will continue to happen.
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The reason I've never enjoyed or felt it was "right" to be on both sides of a war is that you simply can't "un-know" what your other character knows and reads.
I've seen some players who let their one char walk into a massacre and be captured even though the player surely knew what was coming, but I think more often they'll "arrange things" to avoid that. There's always plenty of decisions each turn, and easy to take one that won't be terrible for you without actually looking like power-gaming.
That's not what anyone would call spying, but it's not a good thing, IMHO, and it lessens the enjoyment for the player as well. Certainly if I had one char in a position of power in the war, I would make my other char at least stand down and be a courtier or priest or something.
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On a more relevant note in regards to Bescannon: Ha!
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The reason I've never enjoyed or felt it was "right" to be on both sides of a war is that you simply can't "un-know" what your other character knows and reads.
I've seen some players who let their one char walk into a massacre and be captured even though the player surely knew what was coming, but I think more often they'll "arrange things" to avoid that. There's always plenty of decisions each turn, and easy to take one that won't be terrible for you without actually looking like power-gaming.
That's not what anyone would call spying, but it's not a good thing, IMHO, and it lessens the enjoyment for the player as well. Certainly if I had one char in a position of power in the war, I would make my other char at least stand down and be a courtier or priest or something.
It depends on what the player's objectives are. Sometimes, two characters can fight on different sides while still pursuing the same objectives. Wars aren't always an ends in themselves, and there isn't always a reason to favor one side over the other.
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It depends on what the player's objectives are. Sometimes, two characters can fight on different sides while still pursuing the same objectives. Wars aren't always an ends in themselves, and there isn't always a reason to favor one side over the other.
I find myself agreeing with this. The world must be coming to an end.
It's not paranoia if it's true. It has happened, and will continue to happen.
It can be. Paranoia revolves around the intensity and reasonable nature of the fear. If something proves true, but you were in a historical fear on very little substantial evidence, that is still paranoia. People have multi cheated as well, but if we approach every single successful player with good support as a multi where would that get us? We talk endlessly in other threads that people must accept loss, yet loss due to spying is so terrible that we must accuse anyone playing in a perfectly reasonable way of being a spy? If so change the system, either allow only 1 character per continent or force all characters into the same realm. If I play in two friendly realms which then have a falling out and go to war am I supposed to move one of my characters just because people feel spying is too dangerous.
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I really hope eventually one character per continent restriction transfers over to all continents.
I really liked Dwilight for that. But being on the both sides making your characters hate each other does have its charm.
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I would just like to make it clear that I did have several characters in different realms on different continents, so it wasn't me being too involved in one realm. I mean, how could that even be? I'd been in the realm for only a short time.
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On a more relevant note in regards to Bescannon: Ha!
Good battles. So the war continues...
I would just like to make it clear that I did have several characters in different realms on different continents, so it wasn't me being too involved in one realm. I mean, how could that even be? I'd been in the realm for only a short time.
I think they talking about those characters that have only character in a single realm, not you. Do not take into heart everything they said ;)
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Good battles. So the war continues...
I think they talking about those characters that have only character in a single realm, not you. Do not take into heart everything they said ;)
No, they were talking about me, I'm Gustav.
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No, they were talking about me, I'm Gustav.
Thought you left? But you are still playing Tom's other game right? Where do you play?
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Thought you left? But you are still playing Tom's other game right? Where do you play?
He is currently in command of the White Company within Hawks/Grand Fate. Not sure about his other characters, there is a character with the same family name running around Arimias.
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He is currently in command of the White Company within Hawks/Grand Fate. Not sure about his other characters, there is a character with the same family name running around Arimias.
If you see the Ishida surname, that is me. I make it a habit to spread my characters out, so that if something happens to one, I have others that I can play. I've done this from the very beginning of when I started playing Battlemaster, some, what, 6-8 years ago at the minimum I believe. So when people start coming in and saying "this is why you shouldn't play just one realm"/"this is why you should spread your characters out", it gets kind of annoying...
But anyways, to answer your question, yes, I did leave, and am not planning on coming back to Battlemaster. I am, however, playing Might&Fealty. I don't plan on quitting that, since the community is helpful and welcoming. I have a character in the White Company, a character in Linthain Plains of Ariamis, and another character in Ascalon. I also have a fourth character that I will not reveal the location of, so that I have at least one where OOC preconceptions will not have any factor whatsoever as a fallback character.
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Good battles. So the war continues...
You know just as well as everyone else that Perdan is defeated. Once Sirion's armies return they will have too few soldiers to stop them.
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You know just as well as everyone else that Perdan is defeated. Once Sirion's armies return they will have too few soldiers to stop them.
Time to sue for peace and rebuild. I believe there are proposals being drafted and sent out by now~~
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Time to sue for peace and rebuild. I believe there are proposals being drafted and sent out by now~~
True, then Perdan can accept and we can all begin a new chapter in history.
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This whole conversation is ridiculous. Interactions like this completely defeat the purpose of roleplaying- what is the purpose of playing in-character if all the important decisions are made out-of-character? These are things that should be discussed in-game, or not at all.
Play the course as it lies, play the hand you're dealt, let the chips fall where they may.