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BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: Indirik on January 19, 2015, 05:34:57 PM

Title: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 19, 2015, 05:34:57 PM
You now officially suck.

That is all.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on January 19, 2015, 05:55:34 PM
Velax has gone over the reasons this was a stupid idea multiple times.

I was a little surprised when Bofeng spoke up, but his reasoning makes sense, too (surprisingly enough, based on our history with Cathay ;D ).

This really isn't a matter of "the first war that happened, and everyone dogpiled on the aggressors." No, you could have picked a war that would have been seen as perfectly reasonable. In fact, it's possible that you couldn't have picked a worse thing to do, though part of that is because of Coralynth's part in it, which I suppose you can hardly be blamed for.

I agree that what it resulted in kinda sucks for Sorraine, but I honestly don't see why you thought wiping out Ohnar West so soon after Velax very carefully kept them alive in the last war would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 19, 2015, 06:27:15 PM
Still sucks.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Zakilevo on January 19, 2015, 06:56:31 PM
What happened? :o
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Chenier on January 19, 2015, 07:48:31 PM
I agree with Indirik.

Even if Coralynth gave every reason in the word for Arcaea to get involved, they didn't have to. Wasn't Velax boasting about how he was OOC intent on making things fun on the continent? What Arcaea chose to do doesn't fit with that claim.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 19, 2015, 08:39:46 PM
Sorraine and Coralynth declared war on OW. The entire island feigned morale outrage and declared war on Sorraine and Coralynth.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on January 19, 2015, 09:01:48 PM
Sorraine and Coralynth declared war on OW. The entire island feigned morale outrage and declared war on Sorraine and Coralynth.

Right—because there's no such thing as real moral outrage.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: GundamMerc on January 19, 2015, 09:23:16 PM
Right—because there's no such thing as real moral outrage.

And just because there is such a thing as real moral outrage doesn't mean it is either right, nor what happened in this case. Please try an actual argument, rather than just a sardonic reply.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Stabbity on January 19, 2015, 09:27:09 PM
And just because there is such a thing as real moral outrage doesn't mean it is either right, nor what happened in this case. Please try an actual argument, rather than just a sardonic reply.

My only info is hearsay, but I do believe Delvin's character is actually morally outraged at the circumstances surrounding Coralynth's involvement.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Chenier on January 19, 2015, 09:30:08 PM
How real the moral outrage is doesn't matter, that doesn't force everyone to jump in on a new gangbang.

The sanctions could have been different, and they could have been differed.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Stabbity on January 19, 2015, 09:31:06 PM
I was only speaking on Delvin's behalf.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on January 19, 2015, 09:44:49 PM
How real the moral outrage is doesn't matter, that doesn't force everyone to jump in on a new gangbang.

The sanctions could have been different, and they could have been differed.

Well, that's true.

At the time when Baranion decided and announced that Zonasa would join in the fight, it was just Sorraine and Coralynth vs Ohnar West. His expectation was to provide a relatively minor distraction to Sorraine by opening up a second front.

I don't think it's necessary for Arcaea to be involved, in this case. However:


So, yes, this sucks for Sorraine. But it's far from the worst thing that could be happening on the FEI right now, and is pretty much entirely the result of Sorraine and Coralynth ignoring recent history (and at least one relatively obvious diplomatic issue) and thinking that disposing of Ohnar West would be a "short, victorious war" they could get out of the way quickly.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: De-Legro on January 19, 2015, 09:49:29 PM
Personally my character has spoken against our involvement. I also suggested that if we are truly outraged then our actions should only be against Coralynth. Due to geography we can do little against Coralynth, thus it would seem the "rational" thing to do is to prevent their goals from being completed by attacking their ally.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 19, 2015, 10:17:10 PM
Thing is, IC, all the reasons people are giving, so far as they are making it to my character, are pure bull!@#$. Zonasa demanding that we condemn the actions, and swear an oath not to let it happen again? Let what happen? Declaring war? (And yeah, i know more ooc, but I'm talking ic, and what my character knows.) So far, all we did was declare war, and then invade 7 days later. What's to condemn?

Everyone is claiming they are taking OWs side, but that they don't really have any objections to war on OW. And, really, who ×would× care about OW? Everyone should despise them, except perhaps Cathay. And maybe Velax cares about the exact number of rulers who bow before the imperial throne.

And if the objection is really about the way Coralynth acted in declaring the war, then why start bitching about a gang-bang against poor, defenseless OW, then start roflstomping Sorraine? What's next, when Cathay does something, do we declare war on Zonasa and start looting them?

This has all the indications of a bunch of realms looking for a safe war they can participate in, and jumping on the bandwagon. And yeah, you may have some ic reasons you can claim to be safely following. But you know what? It really doesn't matter. It still sucks. People have to start wars to keep this game from becoming a !@#$ing gold harvesting sim. And in order to start wars, you need to sometimes do things that the knight in shining armor wouldn't do. If someone does that and the entire island breathes a collective sigh of relief because now they can pretend to be the good guy and not be the one bent over the table, then it's gonna suck.

And, really, that's where the FEI is now. Right in the middle of a big heaping helping of suck. Sorraine has no choice but to knuckle under or die. And we go back to another six months of gold farming. And another two dozen people quit the island.


Edit: stupid phone typos.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Chenier on January 19, 2015, 10:22:10 PM
If Arcaea only ever has two options (do nothing and be bored, or roflstomp a realm and making FEI boring), then they really suck and don't care at all for the rest of the players.

How long would it have taken for OW to be destroyed? If they had decided to wait just a little to let that happen, and then striked Coralynth (and ONLY Coralynth), then maybe it wouldn't be as bad.

It really doesn't matter how badly Coralynth messed up, it should have been handled differently.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: De-Legro on January 19, 2015, 10:56:30 PM
Thing is, IC, all the reasons people are giving, so far as they are making it to my character, are pure bull!@#$. Zonasa demanding that we condemn the actions, and swear an oath not to let it happen again? Let what happen? Declaring war? (And yeah, i know more ooc, but I'm talking ic, and what my character knows.) So far, all we did was declare war, and then invade 7 days later. What's to condemn?

Everyone is claiming they are taking OWs side, but that they don't really have any objections to war on OW. And, really, who ×would× care about OW? Everyone should despise them, except perhaps Cathay. And maybe Velax cares about the exact number of rulers who bow before the imperial throne.

And if the objection is really about the way Coralynth acted in declaring the war, then why start bitching about a gang-bang against poor, defenseless OW, then start roflstomping Sorraine? What's next, when Cathay does something, do we declare war on Zonasa and start looting them?

This has all the indications of a bunch of realms looking for a safe war they can participate in, and jumping on the bandwagon. And yeah, you may have some ic reasons you can claim to be safely following. But you know what? It really doesn't matter. It still sucks. People have to start wars to keep this game from becoming a !@#$ing gold harvesting sim. And in order to start wars, you need to sometimes do things that the knight in shining armor wouldn't do. If someone does that and the entire island breathes a collective sigh of relief because now they can pretend to be the good guy and not be the one bent over the table, then it's gonna suck.

And, really, that's where the FEI is now. Right in the middle of a big heaping helping of suck. Sorraine has no choice but to knuckle under or die. And we go back to another six months of gold farming. And another two dozen people quit the island.


Edit: stupid phone typos.

Zonasa wants you to condem the actions of Coralynth, not necessarily your own actions. Though some within the realm believe your realm was fully aware of the stunt they were going to pull, and thus are guilty by extension. It is possible that Zonasa might pull out of the war if Coralynth did, though that is just my opinion and I'm not particularity keen on the war to start with. There are those within the realm that simply want to prevent any spread of Sartan, and I have no idea which realms follow that religion.

However it was a gang bang from the start, when two realms larger then OW both declared upon them. All that has happened is the rest of the island has joined in and the party being gang banged has changed. It was a poor war from the start, now it is simply a poor war with everyone involved.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on January 19, 2015, 10:56:41 PM
Thing is, IC, all the reasons people are giving, so far as they are making it to my character, are pure bull!@#$. Zonasa demanding that we condemn the actions, and swear an oath not to let it happen again? Let what happen? Declaring war? (And yeah, i know more ooc, but I'm talking ic, and what my character knows.) So far, all we did was declare war, and then invade 7 days later. What's to condemn?

What's to condemn is Coralynth's actions.

And to be honest, Baranion's being a little cagey in that still. What he really wants is to see Sorraine pledge never to use its military might to try to spread Sartanism, but he's a little afraid that saying so would be dangerous.

Plus, y'know, asking a Theocracy not to support the spread of the religion it's based on isn't likely to go over too well ;D
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 19, 2015, 11:36:42 PM
You're war declaration message didn't say anything about Coralynth. It said "What we seek is a denunciation of the acts taken thus far by Sorraine and Coralynth, and oaths sworn that such acts will never occur again." No further explanation.

But really, it's pointless. This should have been the safest, most bland, inoffensive war that anyone could have dreamed up. A nice little test of FEI in the post imperial era. And it failed.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on January 19, 2015, 11:50:31 PM
This should have been the safest, most bland, inoffensive war that anyone could have dreamed up.

See, this, right here? This is what shows a total and utter lack of consciousness of current and recent (well, going back a ways into the last war) diplomatic events.

Just because you think wiping out Ohnar West should be something that no one would ever care about doesn't make it so. And proceeding with this as one of your basic premises is, I think, what's leading you to be so frustrated and angry about the results.

My advice? Forget this idea entirely. Because it's totally wrong, and leading you into bad places.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 20, 2015, 04:27:19 AM
My advice? Forget this idea entirely. Because it's totally wrong, and leading you into bad places.
Yeah, see, that's not the root of the problem. If you think that's what I'm thinking, then I'm not explaining properly and/or you're just not getting it.

FEI is dying. More so than any other island, and it hasn't have much life for at least the past year to begin with. Any possible dissenting voices have been beaten into submission. All that's left is bland uniformity. And yeah, maybe there are soop3r s33kri+ pl4nz in some backroom that may, if we're lucky, see the light of day in a year or two of hard work and reconstruction. But let's face it, in 6 months it will be too late. So many people will have left that every realm other than Arcaea will be a depopulated wasteland.

And just to be clear, I am NOT blaming Velax the player here. All my references to "Velax" in this thread are meant to refer to the IC character only. Slim distinction, yeah, I know, but it's there.

I had a longer rant prepared, but I'll most likely shelve it and forget it. My IC frustration is obviously spilling over into OOC frustration. But I still maintain my original assertion: FEI sucks.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: De-Legro on January 20, 2015, 04:44:55 AM
Yeah, see, that's not the root of the problem. If you think that's what I'm thinking, then I'm not explaining properly and/or you're just not getting it.


That would be my guess. Was it not for the fact I don't generally believe it to be part of your nature, I would have thought from your messages so far that your complaint centres around the war not going the way you wanted it to.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Antonine on January 20, 2015, 12:56:12 PM
I agree with Indirik.

Coralynth has played some bad moves diplomatically and should experience repercussions for them. And Ohnar West was saved the minute Arcaea decided to step in and promise to defend their lands and loot the lands of their attackers.

But none of that explains or justifies Zonasa and Cathay declaring war on Sorraine when they're not the ones who've done anything wrong - especially when they're declaring war on Sorraine alone and not Coralynth too.

Guys, this kind of behaviour is how Atamara happened. Please don't make FEI Atamara.

And as for Sartanism, at least it's good thing for causing conflict. ICly you might be worried about the prospect of aggressive religious expansion but wouldn't fighting off a crusade be slightly more fun than curbstomping the theocracies as soon as they start, god forbid, using an IC motive as a way to start a war which is good for the game OOC?

Also, speaking as someone who's now in Coralynth, Ohnar West versus Sorraine and Coralynth was actually a fair fight given how incompetent and inept Coralynth's military activities are.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Fleugs on January 20, 2015, 01:26:33 PM
Have you considered using religion as a tool of war? I recently did a check of how well Church of Sartan is spread, and 75% of all FEI regions have a 90-100% follower base. Priests could wipe regions away without much effort. But it would turn this entire shindig into a religious conflict, of course.

I mean, not to point things out, but Topenah (95% followers last I checked) has been sitting entirely undefended at Sorraine's border since... well, ever. That was until I informed Velax, of course, that this was a significant leak in our defences. But to reiterate, that is a (albeit small and not fully populated) city with no militia or units present, ready to be taken by a Sartanian priest in the blink of an eye.

I'm not saying that this course would have been appropriate for Sorraine, let alone that the Church of Sartan is worth a damn, but Arcaea is not the big powerhouse you would make it out to be.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Antonine on January 20, 2015, 02:04:35 PM
Oh, I know very well. Religion could easily be used to do all sorts of damage.

(Though it's not quite as easy as you think - you can't takeover regions which have high realm control)

But the problem is that this is a qausi-religious war. As in the cause of it is mostly religious and there are lots of Arcaeans intolerant to Sartanism but it's not yet at the point where it's a case of Sartanism versus Arcaea. If it was then things would be different but as it is there's no enthusiasm for the entire religion picking a battle with Arcaea in case it loses.

The only way religious takeovers will happen is if Arcaea makes this a religious conflict - the elders of the church don't want to escalate things.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on January 20, 2015, 04:26:07 PM
Yeah, see, that's not the root of the problem. If you think that's what I'm thinking, then I'm not explaining properly and/or you're just not getting it.

Um...what?

I literally quoted something you said, and said it was wrong. Now you're saying that the thing you said is not what you're thinking?

But let's try a different tack.

Let's assume we just let Sorraine and Coralynth roflstomp Ohnar West with nary a peep. Zonasa keeps rebuilding, Cathay and Arcaea do whatever the hell it is they were doing before.

Then what?

What would you propose as a reasonable alternative to what's happening right now? People aren't going to just sit around and do nothing forever, and the game is, in fact, called BattleMaster for a reason. It is intended that most realms should be involved in one war or another most of the time, and the Far East just doesn't have that many different matchups available to it right now. Thus, to be perfectly honest, this seems to me like one of the best, most interesting wars we could reasonably have expected coming off the last war.

(At least, based on the apparent power levels involved. People keep saying how Sorraine and Coralynth are, despite their size, really terrible at warfare, so it's possible this will be just as much of a roflstomp as it looked like you two vs OW would have been...but if that's the case, then I'm not sure there's really much we could have done for you anyway.)
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Sacha on January 20, 2015, 04:39:04 PM
(http://replygif.net/i/187.gif)
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Antonine on January 20, 2015, 05:09:01 PM
A better war might have been Cathay versus Zonasa since they both lay claim to Haul - for example.

Two evenly matched realms having their own conflict rather than dogpiling into one which is nothing to do with them and making things ridiculously onesided.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: De-Legro on January 20, 2015, 10:20:18 PM
A better war might have been Cathay versus Zonasa since they both lay claim to Haul - for example.

Two evenly matched realms having their own conflict rather than dogpiling into one which is nothing to do with them and making things ridiculously onesided.

Treaties, they are a wonderful thing. No doubt that war will come, but not when the matter was so recently "resolved". The thing was ridiculously one-sided from the outset, what changed was which side had the numbers.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Antonine on January 20, 2015, 10:49:19 PM
Treaties, they are a wonderful thing. No doubt that war will come, but not when the matter was so recently "resolved". The thing was ridiculously one-sided from the outset, what changed was which side had the numbers.

I'm going to go ahead and say that two versus one is much more balanced and fair than four versus one - which is what the war has become for Sorraine.

Again, I find it ludicrous that everyone's attacking Sorraine when it's Coralynth who they claim to be complaining about. To declare war on Sorraine but not Coralynth is completely hypocritical and illogical.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: De-Legro on January 20, 2015, 11:02:11 PM
I'm going to go ahead and say that two versus one is much more balanced and fair than four versus one - which is what the war has become for Sorraine.

Again, I find it ludicrous that everyone's attacking Sorraine when it's Coralynth who they claim to be complaining about. To declare war on Sorraine but not Coralynth is completely hypocritical and illogical.

No its not, you are simply ignoring the fact that several members have more then one reason to enter the war. Cathay defends their only remaining true ally in there mind so far as I understand things, thus they will defend them against both aggressors. If I understand the politics in Zonasa correctly, our Regent is angry with Coralynth's actions, but also sees this war as important in regards to stopping the spread of a Theocracy whom's religion he dislikes, thus Coralynth would appear to have given him the excuse to do what he really wants to do, which is fight Sorraine and prevent them from expanding into OW. For Zonasa this is not about liking or even caring about OW, there are two matters here, the first the public out cry against dishonourable actions, the second OW is preferable to Sorraine. Even without that one could argue that since we can no directly threaten Coralynth due to geography, we must prevent their goal by preventing the success of their coalition. The only reasonable way we can do that is to prevent their "partner in crime". Remeber that Sorraine is currently held in only slightly better esteem then Coralynth, since Zonasa believe they knew of Coralynths plans, and in the end went ahead with the war knowing how things would play out. Condoning the dishonourable acts of your allies is dishonourable as well you know.

And yes, the sides are more one sided now. Such things happen when one group attempts to overwhelm another. Coralynth and Sorraine sought a war that favoured them, the backlash has resulted in a war that does not.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 20, 2015, 11:31:16 PM
FWIW: There's a TL;DR at the end...

Quote
I literally quoted something you said, and said it was wrong. Now you're saying that the thing you said is not what you're thinking?
Yes, you literally quoted one small part of one post, and claimed that it summed up my entire position. You lasered into that small piece of the issue with surgical precision, stated that that tiny piece was wrong, and therefore my entire position was invalid.


Quote
Let's assume we just let Sorraine and Coralynth roflstomp Ohnar West with nary a peep.
To be clear, lets set up the whole situation here:
Ohnar West and Coralynth both had, I think, about 7 nobles when the ball dropped. (OW had *5* when we started planning this. 5 nobles (three players, I think) for a 6 or 7 region realm. They gained some exiles from Kindara and/or Cathay, and they're up to 10 now. Coralynth had 10, double that of OW at the start. That shifted that to about 8 each when it finally started. Both realms are so small that even a single character moving in or out is important.) A war of 8 nobles against 8 nobles, when both realms already have basically as much land (if not more) than they can control. And both realms have at least one priest. I can't imagine a more boring war that was ever fought in the history of the game. They would both be totally ineffective against each other, and unable to reach any kind of decisive resolution. A war of OW against Coralynth is non-event. OW takes Nbasah and the war ends there. Neither one could effectively cross the ocean.


Every other realm on the island is *way* bigger than OW. Sorraine against OW? Sorraine wins. An inevitable lingering death for OW as they are squeezed and starved out. The final assault against Sasrhas may be difficult, and may take a couple tries before OW runs out of money, walls, and recruits.


IF OW gets into a war with *anyone* other than Coralynth, they get wiped out. Not to mention that the only people they *can* fight are Sorraine or Coralynth. So unless we institute some kind of sterile, institutionalized, no-risk "realm duel" system, they *will* get wiped out as soon as they get into a fight.


Quote
Then what?
We move on to something else. How about a meaningful war that can actually involve realms that can, you know, actually fight a real war against each other.


The major problem with picking out wars on FEI is the huge disparity in realm sizes and noble counts. Almost any war that anyone can get happen is a blowout. FEI has a huge problem with this. The worst by far. The only "fair" war that can really happen is Sorraine v. Cathay. Literally every other war is a blowout. You want to try a Cathay v. Zonasa right now? (Now, not next year when Zonasa finally finishes rebuilding.) How about Arcaea v. Zonasa? You think Zonasa could survive either of those short of some Imperial decree that makes it illegal to wipe out another realm? (And that gets us into some lame, ritualized "realm duel" scenario.)


So how do you get around that? You equalize some of the realm sizes. Sorraine picks up a couple rurals, but nothing too serious, and gets a tiny bit closer to Arcaea's size. Coralynth gets a city foothold on the mainland, preventing them from being a completely marginalized and ineffectual island-only realm. Sets up a possible Sorraine/Coralynth v. Arcaea thing. Maybe even the next attempted Sartanian takeover of the island, given the anti-Sartanian movement in Arcaea, and the apparently now-active anti-Sartanian CoH.


Quote
People aren't going to just sit around and do nothing forever
Wanna bet? They have no choice, because you just killed war on the FEI. You pulled the exact same gang-banger stunt that we've been railing against all over the game for years. Someone went to start a war, and every realm not already in that war, jumped them! And what makes it even worse, is that two of them said "How dare Realm A attack Realm B! You used dishonorable tactics! We're going to register our displeasure with Realm A by attacking Realm C!"


How long do you think it's going to be before someone else gets up the nerve to try a war again? Probably a long time. And when they do, it's going to be a sanitized, risk-free, "friendly" war, completely devoid of meaning. Hell, this war was halfway there, with declarations like "It's OK, we're not going to take any land" and "of course you can loot my land, no hard feelings, I'll understand completely". The only people who want to change the status quo are Sorraine and Coralynth, who got jumped by everyone for wanting to do so. Arcaea and Zonasa just want things to go back to the status quo. Cathay is just pulling the standard opportunistic land grab, declaring that Sorraine is evil for doing just that. (Which isn't too bad, actually. We need more opportunistic land grabs.) Arcaea and Zonasa are spending too much time complaining about Sorraine's blatantly greedy land grab to object to Cathay's blatantly greedy land grab. (Or maybe they are complaining and I just haven't seen that yet. But I doubt it.)


Quote
It is intended that most realms should be involved in one war or another most of the time, and the Far East just doesn't have that many different matchups available to it right now.
No kidding. It has exactly one possible "fair" war right now. Instead we ended up with what has become the typical BattleMaster-style dogpile-on-the-instigator war. Sorraine will knuckle under or get wiped out, while trying to get the Imperial Blessing to limit the war to Sorraine v. Cathay. (Which will be a boring war, as both realms stall at matched, fortified cities and turn Lenamaziel into a ritualized battleground. Which leaves Zonasa, Arcaea, Coralynth, and OW sitting around twiddling their thumbs, uninvolved in any war. Coralynth will shrivel to nothing in their insignificance and impotence. OW will go back to being the cesspool of the FEI, collecting the traitors and refuse of all the lost wars on FEI. Arcaea will sit smugly in their own land, congratulating themselves on being top dog, and waiting for the next upstart they can smack down. Zonasa will ... make a killing selling frozen cocktails to the people observing the only war that cold possibly happen on FEI without being called a total blowout. Or whatever it is that Zonasa does while also shriveling up into irrelevance.


But yeah, more to your point, everyone should be involved in one war *or another*. Everyone doesn't always have to be involved in the same war, though. How about some people find themselves that "or another" war and get involved in *that* one instead?


Let's face it: In order to start a war, someone has to do something bad. Something that Dudley Do-Right would charge off and try to fix. But the problem is that too many people in BattleMaster are trying to be Dudley. As soon as someone does something that may be mildly offensive, all those Dudley clones instantly condemn them, and charge off to right the world's wrongs, and shut it the !@#$ down before it can gain any traction. Who cares if they have a multitude of perfectly valid, historical, and RP reasons to have made that first attack to begin with.


If everyone keeps playing Dudley Do-Right, then no one will ever be able to get any traction to get something going.


Quote
Thus, to be perfectly honest, this seems to me like one of the best, most interesting wars we could reasonably have expected coming off the last war.
Sure, if you define "most interesting" as "no risk at all for Arcaea, Zonasa, and Cathay" and "complete blowout of Sorraine and Coralynth".


Quote
People keep saying how Sorraine and Coralynth are, despite their size, really terrible at warfare, so it's possible this will be just as much of a roflstomp as it looked like you two vs OW would have been...but if that's the case, then I'm not sure there's really much we could have done for you anyway.
We all like to have a good chuckle at the incongruity of the worshipers of the god of war being really bad at war. It's a BattleMsgter trope by now. But, really, have you seen the size of the armies that Arcaea tosses around? Have you seen the size of the armies that everyone *else* has to make do with? Arcaea tossed half their nobles into Sorraine, which comprised an army larger than all of Sorraine put together could muster. It doesn't matter *how* good you are at war, when *one* of the four realms you are at war with sends in an army that is larger than your entire mobile force. And when that realm happens to be your intimate neighbor, you're screwed. Oh, and don't forget to add in your other neighbor who tosses in an army that is equivalent to your own, too.


Yes, Sorraine has land. It's also got some !@#$ty geography, poorly positioned to either attack Arcaea or defend itself. It doesn't have lots of nobles. It also has a priest and a couple courtiers. So, maybe 13 actual combatants. (One of those just arrived today.) You think 13 people can possibly stand off against Arcaea? Even at 1,000 CS each for all 13 of those, it'd barely match the single army Arcaea tossed at it, which comprises less than *half* of Arcaea. Assuming perfect movement from every noble in Sorraine (as if you could get that in *any* realm), facing off against the most active people in Arcaea, Sorraine still gets trounced simply because a *part* of Arcaea has more than Sorraine could ever muster.


And that's your idea of the "best, most interesting war" that FEI can produce? That right there is the ultimate indictment of how much FEI sucks.



==TL;DR==
Go find your own damn war.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: GundamMerc on January 20, 2015, 11:59:11 PM
I read the entirety of your post, but didn't want to quote it since it would take up so much room.

I see you've finally converted to the dark side, young apprentice. See now how frustrating it is from my end? This is the same frustration I feel for Dwilight. This is why I railed against the death of Barca. The stillborn death of change, new politics, and new powers.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Antonine on January 21, 2015, 02:07:07 AM
Thing is, on Dwilight at least it was a genuine attempt to make things better. It might not have worked necessarily but at least it had good intentions and no one knew what the outcome would be.

The same can be said the FEI empire concept.

The problem is that right now everybody knows that dogpile wars suck for the game as a whole but people are doing it anyway.

I'm pretty much on the verge of telling Sorraine and Coralynth IC that they should surrender since there's no way they can win (and they'll probably listen) and then we'll be back to twiddling our thumbs in bored silence. But I'd rather have that than see FEI become Atamara.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 21, 2015, 02:18:37 AM
I already proposed that to Sorraine yesterday. Only got one comment, and that guy wasn't too happy about it. Thing is, it only got *one* comment. To me, that's even more important than the fact that the guy didn't like it.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Indirik on January 22, 2015, 03:04:56 AM
Topic split:  http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,6393.0.html
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Kainaq on February 04, 2015, 05:46:53 PM
Indirik i do hope your finding FEI a bit more interesting over the last two weeks :D

however i do believe that there is a better then average chance that FEI could start to transform into Atamara 2.0 over the next couple of months....
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on February 04, 2015, 05:53:13 PM
That depends very strongly on how the various realms react to the events of the past few days.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: dustole on February 04, 2015, 07:49:47 PM
I think the dynamics are changing.  Arcaea still has the disgruntled Sartanians within their realm to deal with.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Anaris on February 04, 2015, 08:01:49 PM
I think the dynamics are changing.  Arcaea still has the disgruntled Sartanians within their realm to deal with.

Indeed. One of the worse-case scenarios, from my perspective, would be for that faction to actually gain the upper hand within Arcaea and start using it to spread Sartanism.
Title: Re: Dear FEI
Post by: Sacha on February 04, 2015, 08:42:21 PM
When I hear people talking of Sartanists as a threat, I always picture these guys:

(https://dimpost.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/nihilists012105.jpg?w=300&h=198)

"No, Arcaeans, these men are Sartanians. there's nothing to be afraid of."