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BattleMaster => Locals => East Island => Topic started by: Fleugs on April 22, 2015, 01:00:25 PM
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Since the previous topic heading this board points at "Is Perdan Dying?", I felt the need to emphasise the efforts made by both Perdan and Vix Tiramora to avoid the gruesome death-by-boredom. Hence this topic, where participants or observers can chitchat about the war in the South.
To summarize this war: Vix and Perdan have each declared a region up for grabs (Woolton & Dimwood respectively). The war is set to last 90 days unless a party concedes before that. It's an entire maze of agreements and like-mindedness between the two realms, but the key idea here is that both realms realized that without war nobles (aka players) would abandon ship and we would die anyway. Besides, both realms also accuse larger realms such as Sirion to put a strain on the entire Island, inducing or even breeding boredom due to their sheer dominance and will to intervene in any conflict rather than making their own (and growing a pair!).
For the latter reason, Vix and Perdan have made it quite clear that no foreign intervention is acceptable. It should be noted very clearly here that this also stems, at least on a personal level, from the idea that war breeds more nobles, and other realms should not directly benefit from the efforts we put into this war. Ha, so suck it, rest of EC!
Now, about the war itself. The start was a bit sketchy, mostly because me and Zakky both had limited access over the weekend. War was declared nevertheless, though, and Perdan swiftly moved into Woolton and began a TO. Two very close and very, very bloody battles followed (which was great fun and is the essence of everything) and saw Perdan come out battered, bruised but with a phyrric victory! There's no better way to tell if your realms are an equal match than fighting such close battles. I believe it's fair to say that the majority of the players in both Perdan and Vix are happy with the provisionary results of this war and the prospects of the future. It seems that conflict between the two realms will not fade away for the foreseeable future, but due to shifting war goals, each war will have a different sound to it.
Now, this topic also serves as a major billboard for anyone who's looking for a fun war. Battles two regions away from both capitals? Check. Small realms with open communication? Check. Inclusion of all characters in the affairs of the realm? Check. A mutual dislike of larger realms such as Sirion? Check. Looking for fun, war and a chance to prove your worth? Perdan or Vix Tiramora is your destination!
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For those of you wondering:
War will last until July 19th. The realm with most TOed regions will keep the opponent's region (For Perdan - they will keep Woolton, For Vix it will be Dimwood). All other conquered regions will be returned.
I must say this war is very enjoyable. Members of both realms know that this won't lead to a total destruction so everyone seems to be relaxed.
Vix also put new people as marshals to help them get into the game better.
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Now now Fleugs, what a hatred towards poor old Sirion. The Ibladeshian 'cult' has truly dispersed.
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Meh... You destroyed months worth of plans! You didn't bring war to the masses, you locked them out! Grrrr... >:[ We will have our revenge!
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Meh... You destroyed months worth of plans! You didn't bring war to the masses, you locked them out! Grrrr... >:[ We will have our revenge!
Except for the reality that months worth of plans had resulted in nothing so far but months of boredom for the continent. It might be exciting for the rulers and councils to bandy forth all these plots and plans, but it does nothing for the other 95% of the players that sit around wondering when something of note might occur.
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I have the intention of letting the masses create their own war. I see plenty of duchies that are not yet independent! ;) But yes, closing this war for any other realm was intentional, as it is aimed at hoping the other realms will realize they need to stir things for themselves if war is what they want.
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It would be hilarious to have every other realm on the island barreling down on Perdan and Vix Tiramona now.
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It would be hilarious to have every other realm on the island barreling down on Perdan and Vix Tiramona now.
I'm not sure if "hilarious" is the word I would use.
More like "depressingly predictable."
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I doubt it would happen though tbh.
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I doubt it would happen though tbh.
Well it is pretty much standard on EC for any war to escalate to a continent wide one.
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That's true these days for any continent. Although I have the feeling there are some changes brewing here and there.
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The rest of EC getting involved would completely validate my ingame arguments. Arguments which are not privy to all East Continent rulers, perhaps. Arguments that state that the "old way" of EC is what is killing the island. And by extension the entire game, really. It's better to have several fluid, smaller wars than these large, boring, "let's travel a full week for one battle" wars. In short it's all about emancipating the smaller realms and encouraging dukes to emancipate their own duchy into a proper realm, because, as said before: more realms = more war! That's not necessarily true, I know, but I think it shows some people are at least trying to change things or do things differently.
Should any realm try to get involved manu militari, Vix and Perdan will stand as a stalwart alliance against these old ways! And on a sidenote, Perdan went from 13 nobles to 18 nobles in one week time. Some were characters being unpaused because there was a war, and De-Legro already announced his return a while ago and it was mostly a coincidence... but still.
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The rest of EC getting involved would completely validate my ingame arguments. Arguments which are not privy to all East Continent rulers, perhaps. Arguments that state that the "old way" of EC is what is killing the island. And by extension the entire game, really. It's better to have several fluid, smaller wars than these large, boring, "let's travel a full week for one battle" wars. In short it's all about emancipating the smaller realms and encouraging dukes to emancipate their own duchy into a proper realm, because, as said before: more realms = more war! That's not necessarily true, I know, but I think it shows some people are at least trying to change things or do things differently.
Should any realm try to get involved manu militari, Vix and Perdan will stand as a stalwart alliance against these old ways! And on a sidenote, Perdan went from 13 nobles to 18 nobles in one week time. Some were characters being unpaused because there was a war, and De-Legro already announced his return a while ago and it was mostly a coincidence... but still.
No no, I specifically returned to Perdan because of the current situation.
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I have the intention of letting the masses create their own war.
We intended to. We were about to start a war that would have involved three, or maybe four realms, which specifically would not have involved any realm dying, but would also have had some meaning to it. Wars without meaning are pretty boring. You have to have risk, or the game's no fun.
I see plenty of duchies that are not yet independent! ;) But yes, closing this war for any other realm was intentional, as it is aimed at hoping the other realms will realize they need to stir things for themselves if war is what they want.
You're implying that no one realizes this, or that no one is tryng to start something. However, no one wants to just jump in and start something, and suffer the resulting bull!@#$ gangbang, like happened on FEI.
If Fiona hadn't suicided, there would already be two more realms involved in the war. And no, it wouldn't be some realms trying to shoehorn their way into your war. It would be a war that more realms had been trying to set up and get started, that everyone had expected, and was looking forward to fighting.
Don't get me wrong here. It's great that you got your war started. EC definitely needs more war. But your assertion that everyone else had been sitting around picking their noses waiting for something to happen is so wrong it's ridiculous.
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Don't get me wrong here. It's great that you got your war started. EC definitely needs more war. But your assertion that everyone else had been sitting around picking their noses waiting for something to happen is so wrong it's ridiculous.
It does highlight a common problem, though. This is hardly the first time someone has launched one plan assuming it was the only one going on, because he had no way of knowing about any others.
Not sure what the best way to deal with the problem is, but you can hardly blame Fleugs for not knowing that another war was being planned if all the planning was happening in channels his character had no access to.
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True, the question is, if you can do anything about it at all. Duke scheming against their realms wouldn't start bragging about it. Kings trying to plot their way into a war won't go screaming about it, or it will most likely fail. At the same time that you can't blame Fleugs, Fleugs can't really put this much blame on the others.
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As far as my ingame character goes, he knows nearly nothing. So far all my messages to other rulers have been done from new principles. I suppose it was made easier for me to approach EC because I simply didn't know what was going on. I am also happy that this didn't become a 2v2 or whatever. Perdan (and Vix) is a small realm. In any other war Perdan would not be the main supplier of the force. It would be harder to make our own war, to chose where we fight. Considering that, I am happy it's only Perdan vs Vix. This way both realms are equally matched and not dependent on some bigger realm.
Should I have crossed any plans, I'd apologize. But that wouldn't be the sincerest apology. After all, if realms were gambling on a conflict between Vix and Perdan (and yes, it was a gamble, looking at how it turned out now), that should raise more questions as to how such realms approach the concept of creating war. I guess, though, when I am the ruler of a realm I simply do not try to rely on other realms to create conflict. I take my own realm and put it up front, and that could end bad or incredibly good. But it's a gamble I'll take every single time.
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As far as my ingame character goes, he knows nearly nothing. So far all my messages to other rulers have been done from new principles. I suppose it was made easier for me to approach EC because I simply didn't know what was going on. I am also happy that this didn't become a 2v2 or whatever. Perdan (and Vix) is a small realm. In any other war Perdan would not be the main supplier of the force. It would be harder to make our own war, to chose where we fight. Considering that, I am happy it's only Perdan vs Vix. This way both realms are equally matched and not dependent on some bigger realm.
Should I have crossed any plans, I'd apologize. But that wouldn't be the sincerest apology. After all, if realms were gambling on a conflict between Vix and Perdan (and yes, it was a gamble, looking at how it turned out now), that should raise more questions as to how such realms approach the concept of creating war. I guess, though, when I am the ruler of a realm I simply do not try to rely on other realms to create conflict. I take my own realm and put it up front, and that could end bad or incredibly good. But it's a gamble I'll take every single time.
The plans were "months" in the making. What proof does anyone have that they would not have taken months more before the realms felt suitably insulated against risk to actually do something, assuming they ever reached that point. A war that is happening is worth two that "are going to happen, honest"
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Should I have crossed any plans, I'd apologize.
I have no problem with anyone seeking out wars, or anyone's IC plans screwing up my own IC plans. (Though I admit that I will grumble and bitch about it :p )
My gripe is the assertion that everyone is trying to shoehorn in on your war because they can't think of any other way to get involved in one. The Perdan/Vix Tiramora conflict, and the situation surrounding Vix's formation is something that affects several other realms. There are perfectly valid reasons other realms might want to get involved in it, in one way or another. (And not just from the lame "we support our ally!") If you'd bothered to talk to your neighbor when you got the throne, you'd know all about it.
But that wouldn't be the sincerest apology.
No one is asking for an apology.
After all, if realms were gambling on a conflict between Vix and Perdan (and yes, it was a gamble, looking at how it turned out now),
Yeah, it is a gamble. Everything is a gamble. Your war is a gamble. It could easily start the next continent-wide war that you're hoping to have prevented with your war games. (Again, talking to your neighbors and scoping out the political landscape would have helped here.)
that should raise more questions as to how such realms approach the concept of creating war.
Definitely a fair point. Starting wars, and then ending them, is definitely something that has always been very difficult. It is always incredibly difficult for a realm to start a war without 90% of the other realms on the island using that as an opportunity to declare you an "aggressive, land-grabbing, expansionist menace", and then piling on against you. Just like it's nearly impossible to go to war, grab a region or two, and then end the war. As soon as you start one, everyone wants to call in their allies to punish you, and use it as an excuse to grab three or four regions from you.
I don't know that staged "war games" are quite the answer to this problem, but I suppose it's worth a shot.
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It does highlight a common problem, though. This is hardly the first time someone has launched one plan assuming it was the only one going on, because he had no way of knowing about any others.
Yeah, you're right. Plans get stomped and derailed all the time. Don't worry, though, we're adapting. :)
Not sure what the best way to deal with the problem is, but you can hardly blame Fleugs for not knowing that another war was being planned if all the planning was happening in channels his character had no access to.
Not knowing? No. But for a character new to the island, and brand new to the throne, to launch the plan without even sending a letter of introduction to the neighbor that they had been in the middle of signing an alliance with? No one in Perdan bothered to see what was going on with that alliance they were negotiating with Eponllyn? You know, the alliance that was supposed to protect them from being the subject of a gang-bang once they started that war with Vix Tiramora? That's not "We don't know what's happening", it's "Not only do we not know what's going on, we don't want to know, and we will do everything in our power to avoid finding out".
And no, De-Legro, this wasn't a private plan between only two characters. It was a public discussion at least in Eponllyn. And unless Fiona in Perdan was deliberately not sharing it with Perdan, they knew it, too. And Caligus sure knew it was going to happen, as did everyone in Vix Tiramora (since they seceded from Caligus.) As did Sirion, Nivemus (At least their ruler), and Fallangard. In fact, Sirion marched their entire army down to Castle Ubent to force the secession, and thus guarantee the circumstances for the war. The coming war was one of the biggest "open secrets" I've ever seen in the game. In fact, the public explosion between Fiona and Meivmayr on the ruler's channel already promised it was going to happen as soon as Sirion's two-week grace period expired.
How anyone can seriously claim they didn't know the war was going to happen is beyond me.
Now, it is quite possible that Fleugs knew all about this, and decided that he just wanted to do something different. That's fine. But claiming that this was some secret plan between only a very few characters? No way.
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+1
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I may have been aware of it on some level, but this is, for example, the first time I hear Sirion's army marched south. Ironically I maintain some contact with Sirion's general, so I suppose I should've known (maybe she said it and I forgot). Oh, and it's true that I didn't address Eponnlyn. Well, I did. To be fair I mistook Vita as Eppy's ruler (that shows how much I know/care, right?) and talked with him. I think I may have addressed you. I had the intention, at least, but I suppose other things occupy me now.
It's true that I was aware of the conflict between Perdan and Vix branching out into a larger war. It's also very true that I am intentionally trying to avoid that. Don't ask me which realm would be on which side. I really have no idea, except for believing Eponnlyn would probably ally with us against Sirion, Nivemus, Vix and Caligus. Not sure about the last realm. It should be stressed that Fiona, in her latter days, barely said anything. Perdan was a desolate place. And even if Caligus does not take any side in the conflict, I would still pass for a war on that scale. Perhaps my years of BM have made me skeptical, but that setup sounds like some realm is going to be erased. I suppose the prospect of both Vix and Perdan risking total destruction is what sort-of brought us together.
So yes, on a level I knew this war could be way bigger, and yes I'm intentionally trying to avoid that. And yes, I did not send you a letter (but neither did you send me one ;) ). If you wish to understand my reasoning, consider every single realm a potential enemy. It's best not to buddy up too much with potential enemies. That totally takes away your chance for a war!
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I think the difficult part is that there was stratification of the alliances following the North South war, the change in Eponllyn's stance was an opportunity to split the alliances up and devolve the continent into what would very likely be a larger more disparate set of struggles.
I get why you wouldn't want Perdan or the new realm to be caught in the thin edge of the wedge, which may or may not have happened, and nobody will criticise you for doing what is right for your realm. Personally speaking I find the concept of war games a bit bland, that is what SI is for, when you buy into that you check into that type of game/fun. For me on EI, Bel or Dw there is supposed to be some decent intrigue leading into a war, so that there is something you can have some passion to fight for, that is what is supposed to add depth to the game.
What you wanted was to shake up the continent and its bonds, I get that. Things are pretty entrenched on EI and the coming war was looking like a place where the entrenchment may change things a bit. We'll just have to see what comes next and how we can craft things a little differently.
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I think the difficult part is that there was stratification of the alliances following the North South war, the change in Eponllyn's stance was an opportunity to split the alliances up and devolve the continent into what would very likely be a larger more disparate set of struggles.
I get why you wouldn't want Perdan or the new realm to be caught in the thin edge of the wedge, which may or may not have happened, and nobody will criticise you for doing what is right for your realm. Personally speaking I find the concept of war games a bit bland, that is what SI is for, when you buy into that you check into that type of game/fun. For me on EI, Bel or Dw there is supposed to be some decent intrigue leading into a war, so that there is something you can have some passion to fight for, that is what is supposed to add depth to the game.
What you wanted was to shake up the continent and its bonds, I get that. Things are pretty entrenched on EI and the coming war was looking like a place where the entrenchment may change things a bit. We'll just have to see what comes next and how we can craft things a little differently.
Um, SI is unrestrained total war were the goal is destruction of your opponents. That could not be FURTHER from highly organised War Games that are stifled with rules and win conditions that aim to restrict the war.
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Personally speaking I find the concept of war games a bit bland, that is what SI is for, when you buy into that you check into that type of game/fun. For me on EI, Bel or Dw there is supposed to be some decent intrigue leading into a war, so that there is something you can have some passion to fight for, that is what is supposed to add depth to the game.
There's more to it than would appear on the surface, but spoiling intrigue... well... then it stops being intrigue.
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Oh, so that how we can call them: Tiramorans. Not Tiramisu cake? :P
About limited war, sound like fun way. Lose a couple regions every now and then, without losing entire realm, or entire culture that goes along with it.
On another note, look like everyone need find their own wars and create their own. Oh well, time to look to the south is over then :-\
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I may have been aware of it on some level, but this is, for example, the first time I hear Sirion's army marched south.
Huh. Caligus was pretty upset, I hear, that Sirion made the march.
It's true that I was aware of the conflict between Perdan and Vix branching out into a larger war. It's also very true that I am intentionally trying to avoid that.
That's understandable, not wanting to be the center point in an island-wide war. Although it was kinda fun being on the front lines between Sirion/Perdan in the last war.
It should be stressed that Fiona, in her latter days, barely said anything. Perdan was a desolate place.
That's too bad. Perdan was always a hit-and-miss realm, sometimes really active and sometimes not. Though I suppose most realms are like that.
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Fleugs, I'm quite curious to learn why you would think Sirion would ally with Nivemus (Caligus) and Vix against Perdan and Eponllyn. The fact that you didn't know of Sirion's march is rather surprising to me tbh. We upset Caligus quite a bit and there was some further turmoil as well. Due to the north/south war and the victory of the north, politics have become slightly strained. However believe it or not, there are people actually working to fix that situation again. But there are opportunities for war if you ask me, even without vix and Perdan. They will just take slightly longer to be made possible I fear.
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Fleugs, I'm quite curious to learn why you would think Sirion would ally with Nivemus (Caligus) and Vix against Perdan and Eponllyn. The fact that you didn't know of Sirion's march is rather surprising to me tbh. We upset Caligus quite a bit and there was some further turmoil as well. Due to the north/south war and the victory of the north, politics have become slightly strained. However believe it or not, there are people actually working to fix that situation again. But there are opportunities for war if you ask me, even without vix and Perdan. They will just take slightly longer to be made possible I fear.
Simple, past actions of the realm.
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Simple, past actions of the realm.
I see, because I would have sooner expected the opposite to happen if Sirion would get involved in the war in the first place.
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As a recent returner to the game, i can definitely testify that during Fiona's last couple of weeks I was under the impression the whole continent was eager to gobble up what was left of Perdan.
No one had any idea that Sirion had marched south or that anyone would have supported Perdan in the pending war. Fiona did share some messages regarding Vix/Caligus and but the impression I had was that both realms were planning to march against us within 2 weeks. I don't think any of it sounded promising...but I may need to go reread them.
I would have expected the 'more experienced' or current leaders to have contacted the new King immediately instead of waiting for him to act, especially if there were complicated plans pending. Without outside advice, the leader's only choice is to do what he feels is best for the realm, and I think that's exactly what was done.
I'm sure the upcoming tournament could serve as a catalyst for a new war with some well-timed insults or a brawl or two.
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I would have expected the 'more experienced' or current leaders to have contacted the new King immediately instead of waiting for him to act, especially if there were complicated plans pending. Without outside advice, the leader's only choice is to do what he feels is best for the realm, and I think that's exactly what was done.
A few reasons this didn't happen:
First, I was away for a few days when Fleugs' character was elected. During the time I was gone, Fleugs had sent a message to the rulers announcng himself, and stating that he would be sending a letter of introduction to those rulers that were important. I'm paraphrasing here, I don't remember the exact words. Essentially "If I want to talk to you, I'll send you a letter." Given this, and that it had been two or three days since he was elected, the presence or absence of a letter from the new ruler is an important piece of information. Saying "I'll send you a letter if you're important to me" and then NOT sending a letter is a VERY important piece of information, and a deliberate snub, *especially* when your realms had been in direct negotiations to sign an alliance.
Second, Fleugs isn't a new player who doesn't know how things work. He's been around the block a few times, and knows how to play the game.
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A few reasons this didn't happen:
First, I was away for a few days when Fleugs' character was elected. During the time I was gone, Fleugs had sent a message to the rulers announcng himself, and stating that he would be sending a letter of introduction to those rulers that were important. I'm paraphrasing here, I don't remember the exact words. Essentially "If I want to talk to you, I'll send you a letter." Given this, and that it had been two or three days since he was elected, the presence or absence of a letter from the new ruler is an important piece of information. Saying "I'll send you a letter if you're important to me" and then NOT sending a letter is a VERY important piece of information, and a deliberate snub, *especially* when your realms had been in direct negotiations to sign an alliance.
Second, Fleugs isn't a new player who doesn't know how things work. He's been around the block a few times, and knows how to play the game.
Indirik is entirely right. The only reason why Odoaker would seek an alliance with Eponnly at this point is if it meant a larger realm could be broken down into several realms (or to stop a large realm from expanding even further at Eponnlyn's cost). But really, Eponnlyn is only considered a possible tool to use in order to break up larger realms before it itself is broken up in two pieces. Now, of course, you will not hear that explicitly said ingame. That would be very foolish. But perhaps now you can understand Perdan's new course better.
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Indirik is entirely right. The only reason why Odoaker would seek an alliance with Eponnly at this point is if it meant a larger realm could be broken down into several realms (or to stop a large realm from expanding even further at Eponnlyn's cost). But really, Eponnlyn is only considered a possible tool to use in order to break up larger realms before it itself is broken up in two pieces. Now, of course, you will not hear that explicitly said ingame. That would be very foolish. But perhaps now you can understand Perdan's new course better.
If my char gets his way Sirion might actually be broken up. But Perdan's new course does bring back most of the former political background as we've known it for so long. South vs North.
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If my char gets his way Sirion might actually be broken up. But Perdan's new course does bring back most of the former political background as we've known it for so long. South vs North.
About damn time! Sirion broken down into single city realms? Good.
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About damn time! Sirion broken down into single city realms? Good.
Sirion has 8 duchies and 58 nobles - that would amount to ~7 nobles per single-city realm.
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That would be horrible.
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If it were divided into 3 or 4 parts, however, each would have between 15 and 20 nobles, and 2 or 3 cities.
That's a perfectly reasonable size for a realm in today's BattleMaster, I'd say...though, as always, much depends upon just how active those 15-20 nobles actually are.
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If it were divided into 3 or 4 parts, however, each would have between 15 and 20 nobles, and 2 or 3 cities.
That's a perfectly reasonable size for a realm in today's BattleMaster, I'd say...though, as always, much depends upon just how active those 15-20 nobles actually are.
No stop it, the common sense, it BLINDS ME
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Yes, three 20-character realms would be much better. That's about the average size on EC and BT.
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About damn time! Sirion broken down into single city realms? Good.
That will certainly spice things up ;)
Sirion has 8 duchies and 58 nobles - that would amount to ~7 nobles per single-city realm.
7 nobles per single city realm is kind of overstretch it, doesn't you think?
I have been thinking along a line. Why not we all agree to gang up and kill any realm holding more than 1 city?
Now that would make every realm holding more than 1 city to break up :P
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I have been thinking along a line. Why not we all agree to gang up and kill any realm holding more than 1 city?
Now that would make every realm holding more than 1 city to break up :P
That would be interesting, but who would make such an agreement? The only two realms with only one city are ... Fallangard and Perdan. And those two together aren't really going to be able to force anyone to do anything. If you start to include larger realms in the mix, then you're being kind of hypocritical, unless you first split up yourself. Then you kinda lose effectiveness.
Although< i do have to admit, it would be kind of funny to see the entire island except Sirion split up into city states, and then try to mob Sirion into submission. :D
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That would be interesting, but who would make such an agreement? The only two realms with only one city are ... Fallangard and Perdan. And those two together aren't really going to be able to force anyone to do anything. If you start to include larger realms in the mix, then you're being kind of hypocritical, unless you first split up yourself. Then you kinda lose effectiveness.
Although< i do have to admit, it would be kind of funny to see the entire island except Sirion split up into city states, and then try to mob Sirion into submission. :D
The agreement, ahem. It has been done on Colonies island, though I do not know how we can apply it on East Island just yet. Most likely enforce by the strongest realms. If all strongest realms agree, the rest will have to abide by it. A good example will be how Lukon, Outer Tilog enforced this agreement on Colonies island(each of this realm hold 2-3 cities each); not a surprise they can pull this off. I remember how player of Valast, Valakyrie done this agreement and setup a so-called Colonial Senate guild, consists of all realms representatives, to help shape up the agreement and island future. We will probably need 1 strong noble who command awe and fear of all realms, an agreement and a few strongest realms; ah, the formula for success on Colonies island ::)
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UPDATE
In a twist of events, Perdan's general sent the orders meant for the realm to the ruler channel. A mistake, obviously, but we stood by our orders. Vix seemed to want to profit from this legitimately obtained information but forgot Bisciye has lvl 2 walls. Was this all a very elaborate ruse by Perdan's general or did Vix oversee some details? Anyway, the Tiramorans bravely charged onto the walls of Bisciye but were stopped short of taking the fortifications themselves. Yet another battle two regions away from Aix! (And three regions away from Partora. Vix is totally commiting)
Perdan now has 20 nobles. A net gain of about 7 nobles in a week and a half. Starting this war was a good decision so far. Nobles literally flock to the banner quoting "a need for action". If only I could write to members of other realms. Oh well. It seems Vix isn't seeing an increase of nobles that much, so anyone looking to join one of both realms... Perdan still, since it's my realm, but in the future my propaganda shall try to divide nobles between Vix and Perdan equally!
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UPDATE
The Tiramoran military seems to be running crooked ever since they bravely died on the walls of Bisciye. The attempts to break the takeover in Woolton only scratched the Lion, causing it to speed up efforts to incorporate the region. This has now been done: Woolton flies the Perdanese banner! It was mentioned however that the Tiramoran military leaders were rather new players. I'm assuming they are quickly learning more about the game, and will soon be able to challenge us properly (well, like the first two battles, really).
Considering this was one of the two war goals in this war, Perdan now has a distinct advantage, region-wise. I am sure that Vix will do everything they can to take the region back and in return take over Dimwood. We'll see what happens next.
In addition, several nobles from other realms seem to wish to scout our regions. Like, allover the place. Will this escalate the conflict and put Perdan/Vix against several realms? Probably not, it'll probably be defused, in order to keep this war small.
Oh, also good news: in this war, infiltrators will not be banished when caught for their actions. We're trying to let infiltrators have more freedom and certainty, so they stick around longer.
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I'm deleting Erik to start a new char in Tiramora.
Erik is ending his time extremely unhappy with Sirion and although I know that, unfortunately, the Sirion division is up to Sirion, this is the biggest prize and will surely be the goal of the new character as it evolves. Let's see if we can do it, even while I think it's very hard to see the entire map against Sirion when they still have Nivemus/Caligus as allies...
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The only reason why Odoaker would seek an alliance with Eponnly at this point is if it meant a larger realm could be broken down into several realms
*cough* Caligus *cough*
Also, call me stubborn but all this 'fake war' doesn't really feel to be in the spirit of the game to me. When Perleone tried to set one up between Eponllyn and Armonia, I was sure that previously it had been said such pretend battles weren't allowed. That war was meant to be serious and there were meant to be real consequences. You might have found an easy distraction for your boredom but I can't imagine that it's particularly satisfying and I would go so far as to say it's not good for the rest of the island to have to play around this small vacuum or even good for the game as a whole.
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None of your implications seem to be true.
The war is not fake. It is real, armies clash and people die. It is different from a generic war by being codified in the same manner a duel is different from a brawl.
There will be serious consequences to this war. Kingdoms will lose land. But they will not be crippled or utterly destroyed. The loser will stay relevant and be able to take part in future conflicts, which is actually good for the entire continent.
It is quite satisfying already, seeing a lot of action. I have no idea what made you think otherwise.
Other kingdoms do not have to play around this conflict. Everyone can do as they please, there is no DM veto or something.
Don't be bitter and go create fun for your realm. :)
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With the new realm losing every battle, I wonder how long it will be before apathy sets in or there will be calls to make it a proper war. On the whole though I find myself in agreement with Deytheur. BM is supposed to be a realistic experience and a wargame where people die and the victors pat the losers on the back and wish them better luck next time is just kind of hollow and I would have thought against the ethos of the game.
I do agree that it is a good thing that you are fighting in a war that will see nether realm fully crippled and where the object of the war is not total annihilation, I just wish it were little more 'real'.
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About the war: it looks like Vix is taking over Dimwood, the Tiramoran war goal. Meanwhile Perdan is taking over Ar Mosul. Fronts are shifting, but I'll believe that in a week or so Vix will have taken Dimwood and Ar Mosul will still be theirs. That will balance things out (certainly because Dimwood borders BOTH capitals).
Vix actually won battles in the past week. Not sure if apathy will still set in after those events. We'll see. Perdan could be more communicative, but I suppose I can't demand everyone to constantly chatter, and it's proving hard for myself to do that as well. Hence why I continue to strive for a division of positions. As such the burden is shared, as well.
And yes, perhaps a pre-defined war is not ideal. I'll counter all those arguments, though, by stating we are in a balanced war with very frequent battles, while the others on the continent (or entire other continents) are sitting around idle boring the players of this game. I have repeatedly seen it written that BM is to be played like you would play a boardgame with friends. Well, I have the feeling we're playing a version of Risk, and it's definitely not set in the cold war period. I'll go even further: I am a big fan of Paradox' Grand Strategy Games. In those games (in accordance to history), it is the norm to declare war on someone with the specific goal of taking a region (varying in size). It's even impossible to kill a realm that is not tiny. Perhaps Battlemaster's community has evolved to a point where war often leads to destruction or turning a realm irrelevant. Considering that, I prefer this war over the countless of other wars in Battlemaster that have more vague declarations of wars, often boiling down to "a slight has been made" or "this is not in our geopolitical interest". The war between Perdan and Vix is about real ground, a real region. It doesn't go further than that, but does it really have to? I disagree. It's possible, but not necessary. We have chosen the latter option. It's a valid choice, that benefit both realms the most. Besides, by turning this into a defined not-entirely-destructive one versus one, we ensured that both realms would not get roflstomped by some bigger realm. As well as ensuring that both realms are now the core of this war, not some auxiliary force that supports a much bigger army. Also, not having to account for allies makes planning your battles and wars a thousand times easier.
I honestly have no qualms about what this war is, even if it may be perceived as a fake war. I know I am doing the right thing for my realm and I know Zakky has the same idea. The single most important thing you do as a ruler is creating and nurturing a fun experience for the players who have chosen to play in your realm. I am completely confident that I am doing this. Any outside criticism is irrelevant to me.
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With the new realm losing every battle, I wonder how long it will be before apathy sets in or there will be calls to make it a proper war.
Wow, you really want this to fail, don't you. :D
BM is supposed to be a realistic experience and a wargame where people die and the victors pat the losers on the back and wish them better luck next time is just kind of hollow and I would have thought against the ethos of the game.
Actually that's what many feudal wars in Europe were about. A whole bunch of peasants would die and then noblemen would meet and decide who gets what as a result.
Oftentimes desired peace terms were presented to an opponent simultaneously with the declaration of war.
You seem to be more in favour of colonial wars, where an empire would pretty much steamroll some country oversea, steal all their land and never give a damn. You're welcome to practice that, but that sort of war will only be fun to you and fun won't even last long because this sort of military paradigm eventually leads to Atamara.
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I think the part that most bothers Deytheur, Chamberlain (and please do correct me if I'm wrong), and myself is the manner you've set up the war game that seems so artificial. It has nothing to do with hating on your war. Agreeing to a war where you only take a region or two from each other is fine. Agreeing to a war where you engage in a full war and on the 90th day agree to end hostilities with the 'winner' getting their wagered region and the returning all the other conquered regions back to the original realms seems extremely artificial and fake. Which is what Odoaker announced to the rulers.
And if I seem particularly grumpy about this, I'll fully confess I've been having trouble getting over how IC events fell out (IC stuff happens, we will move on, gives us reasons for a new direction etc.) and THEN constantly being accused OOCly of sitting around on our hands doing nothing when that is exactly what didn't happen. It's just hypocritical oocly.
"we are in a balanced war with very frequent battles, while the others on the continent (or entire other continents) are sitting around idle boring the players of this game."
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Ah, you finaly managed to name it, then. ;) I'll agree I may not take into account the efforts of others, but may I suggest making things less complicated and just going for it?
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You seem to be more in favour of colonial wars, where an empire would pretty much steamroll some country oversea, steal all their land and never give a damn. You're welcome to practice that, but that sort of war will only be fun to you and fun won't even last long because this sort of military paradigm eventually leads to Atamara.
This is exactly what Battlemaster politics remind me of: Victorian era politics. Big blocks of alliances, with half the kings roleplaying dapper statesmen (and the other half uncommunicative). It's why it takes months to organize a war. They need to go through the long dance that all sophisticated politicians have to, with all the proper etiquette and protocols, accords and ultimatums. A real king, one with an iron crown and a pelt slung over his shoulder, would just declare war and be done with it.
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This is exactly what Battlemaster politics remind me of: Victorian era politics. Big blocks of alliances, with half the kings roleplaying dapper statesmen (and the other half uncommunicative). It's why it takes months to organize a war. They need to go through the long dance that all sophisticated politicians have to, with all the proper etiquette and protocols, accords and ultimatums. A real king, one with an iron crown and a pelt slung over his shoulder, would just declare war and be done with it.
Yes, problem is the Victorian mentality is closer to our own modern one, and thus much easier for players to understand and enact.
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Vix Tiramora now holds Dimwood, Perdan still holds Woolton. The war goals have been exchanged, but in reality, this turns this war into a draw. Ar Mosul was at like 99% taken over by Perdan but Vix charged in and won the battle. Another bloody battle, I love them. Anyway, everything's forcefully wedged open in this war... which is good news! It means even more battles!
There was some minor Tiramoran looting in Woolton, by the way, but it was assured to Perdan that this was not ordered and thus not sanctioned. We'll see where this goes. Perhaps looting should gradually be introduced? 8)
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It's the logical way to turn the fake war into a real one. :)