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BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: Bedwyr on March 01, 2011, 06:05:16 AM

Title: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 01, 2011, 06:05:16 AM
I thought I'd bring back two things I always liked.

1. I've heard tales of people on the FEI originally talking about plans and the like OOC so that those who couldn't be in the loop for IC reasons could still hear about the fun stuff.

2. A few newspapers used to do interviews with various nobles, and I always liked reading them.

So!  Anyone who's interested, ask away.  Just direct the question to Matthew for OOC questions and Jenred (with titles as appropriate) for the IC ones.

For those who just want to level accusations and question Jenred's sexuality and the like, keep it IG.  This is just for a bit of Q&A.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 01, 2011, 05:36:11 PM
Heehee. 
King Jenred of Arcaea, do you....

Nah.

 Hey Matthew.  What's up?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Indirik on March 01, 2011, 08:17:25 PM
Well you asked for questions, so here goes.  If this is over-the-line in OOC discussions of IC plans, let me know and I'll delete it.  :D

How go the plans for the Arcaean Empire? Have you finished allocating all the cities on the entire island yet?

I'm actually helping with the new island realm, being in the assault on Enlod. (Best battle I've seen so far on FEI. Too bad I got wounded in the second battle. Though that did save me from having to plow through all the post-battle trash talking.  ::) ) Is the CTO actually running? I can't see region details, being wounded and all...

Then there's rumours of a secession that will happen after that. So that's three realms that will owe fealty to the Empire.

I'm curious to see if you can pull off the "rulers swearing fealty to an RP'd position" thing. Seems awfully fragile. With so much of the game being dependent on communication and interaction, I'm not sure how you're going to prevent the resentment of owing fealty to a "foreign interloper" from developing. Seems to me that with Jenred being in the new realm, the people in Arcaea will, over time, come to resent the implied subservience. All it will take is one ruler who doesn't feel like following along with it, and at least some people in the realm willing to go a long with it, and it will fall apart.

I remember when Sanguis Astroism formed on Dwilight we discussed various plans for the realms owing fealty to the leader of the church. One idea was that the church was to decide who would be the judges in the various theocracies. Over time, though, as the nobles in the realms were out of contact with each other for longer periods of time, they were less and less willing to pass along power to a foreign realm. "Who are you to tell us what we should be doing?"

It's an interesting idea, but I wonder how it will work in actual practice.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: vonGenf on March 01, 2011, 08:40:59 PM
Morek tried to pull off the same kind of thing with Aquilegia, the idea being to send a Morekian to serve in Aquilegia's council. In the end, the problem was no one wanted to do it! People don't really want to leave a realm they like.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 01, 2011, 09:38:36 PM
Not out of line at all, especially since it'll be going public in (hopefully) short order.

And no, CTO isn't running yet as loyalty is too high.  Which is an annoying mechanic, even if it does make a certain amount of sense.

Indeed, three realms are going to be swearing to the Empire.  I think there are a few things that are going to make it viable.

1. We're going to have (the guild has been built, just need to finish the fighting so everyone has time to join) an empire-wide guild.  Now, Arcaea currently has discussions in three main ways: The whole realm, the Phoenix Court (where most everything gets discussed), and the Military Conclave.  The guild is going to simulate that with the all guild, full members, and elder members.  The idea being that a good portion of the conversations will shift to empire-wide instead of realm-wide, helping with the unity problem.

2. I fully anticipate that over time (though probably a long time for Jenred if he stays in the position) people in one of the other realms will decide they don't like someone from a different realm being in control.  This is one of the (many) reasons why there is going to be an internal war system with internal rankings.  Each realm will have a rank, which will also determine what percentage of their taxes have to go to the Imperial throne, and the highest ranked realm chooses the Emperor.  The Emperor then stays in position until their realm loses their rank and a new Emperor is chosen.  Ranks change via a formal challenge where no outside assistance is allowed and the two realms fight from the first day of Spring to the last day of Autumn, with the winner taking the higher of the two ranks and the loser the lower of the two ranks in dispute.  Determining winners and losers may be non-trivial in some cases, but I think a system where the loser is whoever has the worst change in weighted production (production of a region multiplied by its population) on a percentage basis over the course of the challenge would work well enough.

3. The secession you referred to is going to be Topenah and Talex duchies, leaving the Kingdom of Arcaea with Lasop, Remton, Nocaneb and Niel in an excellent defensive position but not the best offensive position and being much less scary without the context of the Empire.

4. One of the (probably few) powers of the Emperor is going to be the ability to declare whether a campaign season is open or restricted.  Open means each realm of the Empire can fight whatever wars it pleases (challenges, other internal wars, external wars, what have you).  Restricted means wars require the approval of the Emperor as there may be a situation where the entire Empire need work together for some goal.  Clearly there needs to be some check there, and Jenred is going to set a very firm precedent that restricted campaign seasons are only used sparingly.

5. The empire is certainly going to have the one position per family per realm rule Arcaea does now (at least after the initial colonization stages where it may be unavoidable) and I'd really like to make it one position per family for the entire empire.  The idea is to suck as many interested people in as we can by making positions more available than they are most places.

I'm happy to explain more if you have further questions (hey, this helps me organize my thoughts for the big speech Jenred's going to have to give about all this, which is handy).
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Vellos on March 01, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
If my advie can ever get some unique items, I'm excited to see where this goes. The idea of simply awarding the title of "Emperor for the Year," as it sounds like, is kind of odd though.

My real question is about powers. It sounds like the only powers of the emperor are to declare open or restricted seasons. Anything else? Power to... define common external diplomacy? Legitimize (or de-legitimize?) rulers of participating realms?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 01, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
The precise powers of the Emperor vs the constituent Monarchs is...Unclear as of yet.  (Fairly) definitive powers at this point are:

1. Control of X% of each realm's income, where X is their ranking, delivered each winter (going to try and make winter the party/tournament/RP season).

2. Right to set campaign seasons.

3. Right to influence diplomacy if there is a major benefit to the empire as a whole.

4. Right to disallow religions/guilds/nobles throughout the empire (though /not/ to force acceptance).

5. Right to all communications upon request.

Some of that is, of course, vague.  We may leave it that way, though I'm not sure yet.

Common external diplomacy will sometimes fall into point 3, but again that should be a power used sparingly if ever.  Emperor will have no direct powers over the legitimacy over member Rulers (though informally having the Emperor as your enemy would make life quite difficult).
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Perth on March 02, 2011, 12:12:51 AM
This sounds really cool if it works out well.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 02, 2011, 01:38:55 AM
My "What's up?" was a question. 
Anyway, did my character really torture Tammo?  How did he get injured if not?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Foundation on March 02, 2011, 02:00:11 AM
So, Matt.  This is the experiment of an empire of reals that you are running on FEI?  Maybe I'll join you there.  Seems fun.  :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 02:44:43 AM
Gloria:

Everything Jenred sent to you is true so far as he and I know it.  I confirmed with various people OOC, and while it is possible they were all lying, I rather doubt it.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 02, 2011, 03:07:02 AM
Weird.  As far as I know, Ortisia only tortured a commonner... but I don't remember who Tammo is. 
Was he the one crying about silk slippers and chocolate?   I swear I don't remember, and I don't drink and play.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 05:05:18 AM
Sundar's the one who talked about slippers and stuff.

Guy who played Tammo shot me the torture report, as I recall, so unless he decided to forge that OOC to send to me as well as lie repeatedly since then about it, I'm pretty sure it happened.  Maybe a misclick/misread?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Heq on March 02, 2011, 06:12:29 AM
What?  She didn't torture anyone?  Feh!  I was really, really hoping I was out peddling a huge passel of lies.

I think this could really work out well provided the more "set" realms can get into it.  This isn't so much a question as just an overall agreement that this last war has worked out pretty well from an RP standpoint, really seems to have gotten a lot of folks (at least in Arcachon) back on their horses.

If Ohnar West hadn't gotten inovolved it would have complete snoozefest pretty fast.

Anyway, any plans on how to get the really stodgy realms to get more active once the empire is formed?  Some sort of formal challange system?

Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 06:34:38 AM
Well, Cathay is crumbling, with people leaving on a semi-regular basis, and I keep thinking James is going to auto-remove out.

Aenilia is willing to fight so long as there's no possible risk for them to do so...But Xarnelf's latest trip to Enlod is going to make things very interesting, and I might be able to spin a war out of that.

Zonasa and C'thonia are fighting with Kindara getting more annoyed that the two aren't listening, and Kindara is worried about Zonasa getting more powerful, so you may see the southern war get bigger shortly.

And if all else fails, we wait and do internal wars until the peaceniks collapse or start a war in desperation...But I really doubt it'll get that far.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Indirik on March 02, 2011, 02:15:12 PM
Oooh... I really want a shot at GA so bad....  >:(
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 02, 2011, 03:08:16 PM
Wait. Tammo has an adventurer in the family, right?  Are you sure the one tortured was Tammo and not Silan?   It was unfortunately so long ago that I don't have a torture report or anything stored in my actual human memory.  All I remember is that when Ortisia was accused of torturing an Arcaean noble, I said "no noble was tortured" because the one tortured had been a commonner and shouldn't matter.  Now I'm confused, lol. Am I the one with the evil character? (I swear one of these days I'll go schizoid)
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Corwyn on March 02, 2011, 04:00:36 PM
But Xarnelf's latest trip to Enlod is going to make things very interesting
Yeah, that caught me by surprise.  I asked some fellow Arcachon nobles if anyone had any idea, and of course no one replied.  Can't wait to find out!   :D
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Igelfeld on March 02, 2011, 09:24:17 PM
We all know about the personality of Arcaea as a realm, and one of the things that was interesting about Arcachnon was its unique style.

 So do you think that this the realms under your rule will have the ability to develop unique characters? or will the central guild influence everyone to be a lot like Arcaea is now?

It would be interesting if the empire consisted of a variety of styles... Along those lines, have you considered directly offering Arcachon a position within the empire if they would accept a new ruling council?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 02, 2011, 09:41:43 PM
I don't think it will work.  All puppeteering plans fall apart because at some poing the puppet resents its strings being pulled. Also, because I do not think it is very enjoyable to people in other realms to play along.  So, the empire will fall because it's not cool nor fun.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Indirik on March 02, 2011, 10:08:35 PM
I talked to Matt about some of this via IRC, but here's some of my thoughts organized here for the forum readers.

1. We're going to have (the guild has been built, just need to finish the fighting so everyone has time to join) an empire-wide guild.  Now, Arcaea currently has discussions in three main ways: The whole realm, the Phoenix Court (where most everything gets discussed), and the Military Conclave.  The guild is going to simulate that with the all guild, full members, and elder members.  The idea being that a good portion of the conversations will shift to empire-wide instead of realm-wide, helping with the unity problem.

Depending on how large your guild gets, with the people of three realms in it, I think you're biggest issue will be message traffic. I stepped down as leader of Sanguis Astroism on Dwilight so I could get away from all the messages. I just couldn't handle the flood of traffic, hundreds of messages in a couple hours, when some topic came up that *everyone* had to argue over.

And in guilds, you can't have separate channels like you can via the realm message groups. Everyone in a tier automatically gets all messages to their tier and all the lower tiers. This means that Elders can't escape the rabble.

Quote
2. I fully anticipate that over time (though probably a long time for Jenred if he stays in the position) people in one of the other realms will decide they don't like someone from a different realm being in control.  This is one of the (many) reasons why there is going to be an internal war system with internal rankings.  Each realm will have a rank, which will also determine what percentage of their taxes have to go to the Imperial throne, and the highest ranked realm chooses the Emperor.  The Emperor then stays in position until their realm loses their rank and a new Emperor is chosen.  Ranks change via a formal challenge where no outside assistance is allowed and the two realms fight from the first day of Spring to the last day of Autumn, with the winner taking the higher of the two ranks and the loser the lower of the two ranks in dispute.  Determining winners and losers may be non-trivial in some cases, but I think a system where the loser is whoever has the worst change in weighted production (production of a region multiplied by its population) on a percentage basis over the course of the challenge would work well enough.

Ritualized combat? What if one of the realms is in danger of wiping out the other? How far will the Empire let things go before he steps in and stops it? War without risking your life, or the life of your realm, is a bit stale.

Quote
5. The empire is certainly going to have the one position per family per realm rule Arcaea does now (at least after the initial colonization stages where it may be unavoidable) and I'd really like to make it one position per family for the entire empire.  The idea is to suck as many interested people in as we can by making positions more available than they are most places.

I hope you get enough people interested in that many positions. That's always been one of the most difficult things I've encountered lately: Finding enough volunteers to fill position vacancies.


I'm sure I had more ideas/comments, but I don't have time now to write them down.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Indirik on March 02, 2011, 10:10:10 PM
Yeah, that caught me by surprise.  I asked some fellow Arcachon nobles if anyone had any idea, and of course no one replied.  Can't wait to find out!   :D
You'll have to wait until he recovers. ;)
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 10:16:18 PM
Gloria:

Yes, I'm fairly certain that an experienced player can tell the difference between his noble character and his adventurer.  As for your other comment, I would suggest that this is not the proper place for it.

Igelfeld:

I'm sad about Arcachon's culture as well, but you may recall that Arcaea already did one of those "restore good relations and give back regions to a new group of ruling characters".  The response was to ignore all provisions of the peace treaty except territory, refuse to negotiate on imaginary disputes over what the terms meant, and send an assassin.  Second chances, sure.  Third?  Not so much.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 10:25:12 PM
I talked to Matt about some of this via IRC, but here's some of my thoughts organized here for the forum readers.

Depending on how large your guild gets, with the people of three realms in it, I think you're biggest issue will be message traffic. I stepped down as leader of Sanguis Astroism on Dwilight so I could get away from all the messages. I just couldn't handle the flood of traffic, hundreds of messages in a couple hours, when some topic came up that *everyone* had to argue over.

Might be a problem, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Quote
Ritualized combat? What if one of the realms is in danger of wiping out the other? How far will the Empire let things go before he steps in and stops it? War without risking your life, or the life of your realm, is a bit stale.

If your realm gets wiped out during a challenge, then tough luck.  No one, Emperor included, will be able to intervene in challenges (with the possible exception of some threat arising that is a danger to the existence of the Empire as a whole, but I'm not certain even that should be an acceptable excuse).  In practice the only way I see challenges interrupted is if one of the Order of the Hawk military requirements is activated.

The Emperor will probably intervene with realms that are getting wiped out by out-Empire realms, but for internal wars, why would the Emperor care?  Only changes who owes him fealty, not how much.  Now, if you're wiping out the realm of, say, the Emperor's wife, when he's psychotically obsessed with her to the point where he thinks destroying realms and leveling cities and sowing the ground with salt because someone offered her a minor insult, then you may have a problem, but that's just politics.

Quote
I hope you get enough people interested in that many positions. That's always been one of the most difficult things I've encountered lately: Finding enough volunteers to fill position vacancies.

Oh, it'll be interesting, I'm sure, but even if I can't make it a hard rule it's going to be a rule to appoint anyone without a position over anyone with a position if they are a candidate.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 11:06:18 PM
We all know about the personality of Arcaea as a realm, and one of the things that was interesting about Arcachnon was its unique style.

 So do you think that this the realms under your rule will have the ability to develop unique characters? or will the central guild influence everyone to be a lot like Arcaea is now?

Forgot to respond to this part:

Yes, I think at least some of them will have unique characters.  The new realm on the Dark Isle, for instance, is going to take Arcaea's general friendliness toward infiltrators to its logical conclusion along with a state-sponsored religion, and is going to at least try to function as a place where people can find infils-for-hire.  The Kingdom of Arcaea itself is likely going to become considerably less confrontational, as both the main candidates to take the throne are more inclined toward talking than fighting, while I expect the new realm in Talex/Topenah to be even more confrontational than Arcaea currently is.  Beyond Arcachon, anyone interested in joining will be free to do so as long as they abide by the various rules, so we may end up incorporating other existing realms after wars or the like.  There's certainly not going to be an attempt to limit the variety of realms.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Heq on March 02, 2011, 11:44:26 PM
Just my .02$ on this, Arcachon had a unique style, but a lot of that was attached to the way the nobles were and really does transfer very quickly.

One of the problems was that as old players left the types and styles just didn't mesh as much, especially as the Arcachonian method was based around a religion which really had only a few driving personalities behind it.

Given that the religion lives on, that part of the style likely will as well, and as new realms come up they will have new styles of their own and hopefully some of them will be unique and fresh as well.  It really does just depend on the work those who run the realms put in, which means it's up to Matt to pick the right people to ensure the realms have a good "flavour".  Hell, I'm fairly sure that once Ciann and her wobblies get squared away large chunks of Arcachonian culture (let's be honest, Ulster Kelt) culture will continue to plague the lands.

Don't worry, with any luck Aenelia will end up in a war with C'thonia sooner rather then later (with luck by next spring season).

Though now I am seriously tempted to just move to Cathay and run a coup, but I can't come up with a valid IC reason.  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Igelfeld on March 03, 2011, 12:28:12 AM
Though now I am seriously tempted to just move to Cathay and run a coup, but I can't come up with a valid IC reason.  Any suggestions?

You could aim for some high office you know that you will be rejected for and leave in disgust. But then you will have to harbor resentment for a time.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 03, 2011, 12:29:41 AM
Yeah, that'll be fun...The wandering Sartanian and Arcachonian exodii fight across the entire continent for eternity!  <grins>

As for Cathay...They're friends with Arcaea, and overturning them and attacking might help you get your old lands back?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Indirik on March 03, 2011, 03:16:31 AM
The new realm on the Dark Isle, for instance, is going to take Arcaea's general friendliness toward infiltrators to its logical conclusion along with a state-sponsored religion, and is going to at least try to function as a place where people can find infils-for-hire.
Oooooh.... color me interested.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on March 03, 2011, 04:58:48 AM
Yup, we figured it was the perfect location. Long as the colony maintains good relations with their southern neighbours they should be able to send out infils AND avoid a war at their front door.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on March 03, 2011, 05:10:36 AM
Gloria, while I sat in your prison we received two separate torture notices. I've no idea WHO you tortured, but I know you did it more then once. Could have been the same character twice though.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Corwyn on March 03, 2011, 05:44:25 AM
You'll have to wait until he recovers. ;)
Is he your character?  Argh... I don't know which poster corresponds to which character(s).
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Indirik on March 03, 2011, 02:23:23 PM
No, I don't play Xarnelf. Oddly enough, I play the Indirik family. :p On FEI, that would be Taylin Indirik, Duchess of Akanos. I happened to notice yesterday that Xarnelf was wounded. I think he's having severe back pain.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Solari on March 03, 2011, 03:02:40 PM
Having heard vague mention of this but not the specifics, I'm now curious about something: is this possible on a continental scale?  In order to generate the king of dynamic you're looking for, you'd almost need to supplant realm identity with tribal identity, and that seems most plausible on the duchy level.  How do you propose to manage people who start thinking of themselves as autonomous?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on March 03, 2011, 10:50:13 PM
encourage the rest of the empire to beat them into submission or replace them with nobles more inclined to follow the laws of the empire? Really half the fun would be the politics and wars required to hold the empire together.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 03, 2011, 11:07:25 PM
Having heard vague mention of this but not the specifics, I'm now curious about something: is this possible on a continental scale?  In order to generate the king of dynamic you're looking for, you'd almost need to supplant realm identity with tribal identity, and that seems most plausible on the duchy level.  How do you propose to manage people who start thinking of themselves as autonomous?

I think it's possible because of a number of factors, but the primary factor is Jenred.  As arrogant and self-centered as it may sound, he recently concluded an alliance with another realm that is now helping considerably in achieving this goal strictly on the power of Jenred's personal reputation.  Likewise, the various Monarchs are all good and loyal friends of his, and I think that he can hold it together long enough for it to take on a life of its own.  People will want a chance at succeeding him...And he's very carefully ensuring that such succession can and will happen in an approved of way.

Put it another way: I'm trying to make something halfway between England and the Holy Roman Empire.  England had any number of civil wars and the like, but after the very early days of unification the goal of the various factions was to seize the crown and the entire country, as opposed to merely declaring their own independent kingdom.  It's going to be less centralized than the English Monarchy, of course, with each member realm encouraged to make its own diplomacy and fight each other, hence the HRE, but I think the lure of being able to seize the Imperial throne will prove too strong to resist if Jenred can hold it together long enough in the first place to make people believe it will last.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on March 03, 2011, 11:18:14 PM
Yes I would think the first few months will tell if it will be a long term success. Once these things get off the ground they tend to take on a life of there own.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 03, 2011, 11:25:11 PM
I think it's kind of nasty if you forge game-generated reports and then spread that as if it was the truth. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 03, 2011, 11:27:23 PM
I think it's kind of nasty if you forge game-generated reports and then spread that as if it was the truth.

The only person I know forging such reports and spreading them as truth is Vanimedle, so not sure why you're posting that here.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Igelfeld on March 04, 2011, 02:40:35 AM
One interesting aspect of this is that it will make it more likely that a duchy could declare independence from the realm as long as it remains within the empire. with a lowered strength and size for each realm, declaring independence could essentially amount to splitting a realm in two. Would the empire allow this action as long as the new realm declares allegiance to the empire?

Also, regarding the infiltrators that will inhabit the dark isle, do you plan to set up an laws governing their treatment if caught by another realm within the empire? essentially if you say they cannot be deported or executed you create a heaven for assassins, but if you allow those actions you will be starving the dark isle of valuable nobles. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on March 04, 2011, 04:13:14 AM
Gloria it is pretty much your word against his. You claim he forged the messages, he claims you are just lying. Since we KNOW you tortured at least twice from multiple sources, you'll forgive us that IC his claim seems the stronger.

Igelfeld two very interesting idea's. For the first my take on the Duchy splitting is that in MOST cases that would be an internal issue of the realm, not the empire. I could see the empire getting involved if the Duchy was not going to join, or if they broke some law like the ritual wars rules. In all other cases I would expect their survival would hinge on the same things a succession does now, power, relation with the old realm and allies.

With regards to the second, great question, I don't believe we have talked about it yet. To be honest unless the empire takes over the whole continent it isn't hugely important. I would expect that realms outside the empire will be deporting and executing as is the standard.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Gloria on March 04, 2011, 04:39:31 AM
Yeah, there were characters that were tortured, but there was no Tammo involved.  I'm pretty sure the tortured ones were adventurers.  So, even if IC that claim is strong, the whole getting Cathay involved and there being "signs of torture" wouldn't make sense.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 04, 2011, 04:43:49 AM
One interesting aspect of this is that it will make it more likely that a duchy could declare independence from the realm as long as it remains within the empire. with a lowered strength and size for each realm, declaring independence could essentially amount to splitting a realm in two. Would the empire allow this action as long as the new realm declares allegiance to the empire?

(grins) You have hit on one of the things that I hope will be more common.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 04, 2011, 04:45:47 AM
Yeah, there were characters that were tortured, but there was no Tammo involved.  I'm pretty sure the tortured ones were adventurers.  So, even if IC that claim is strong, the whole getting Cathay involved and there being "signs of torture" wouldn't make sense.

I will attempt to put this as simply as possible: It's your OOC word vs his.  I've made my decision on who to believe.  That's pretty much the end of it.  I can't stop you from continuing to post about it, but I'm not going to bother responding to this again.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on March 04, 2011, 05:17:32 AM
Any more sense then Arcachon RPing that a normal food sale was theft? RPs are just that, they aren't fact, they aren't limited to game mechanics and in general the rest of the island will ignore them if they choose.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Calanar on March 04, 2011, 07:29:57 AM
*Quietly reads, finding it all interesting*

How's it going? Haven't dealt with Jenred in a while or been on IRC.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Solari on March 04, 2011, 02:27:45 PM
Bedwyr,
 
Have you thought about a structure similar to a Japanese Council of Reagents, where acting out of step might lead to being cannibalized by your peers?  It was much safer to be king of a small piece of the world, in other words.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Anaris on March 04, 2011, 03:24:41 PM
Bedwyr,
 
Have you thought about a structure similar to a Japanese Council of Reagents, where acting out of step might lead to being cannibalized by your peers?  It was much safer to be king of a small piece of the world, in other words.

Council of Reagents, huh?  Well, they'd better have good chemistry, or it'll never work out.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 04, 2011, 07:16:59 PM
*Quietly reads, finding it all interesting*

How's it going? Haven't dealt with Jenred in a while or been on IRC.

Both of us are doing well, been more focused on Arcachon/Aenilia as you might imagine.  Arcaea's not going to be able to project more south than Aenilia for a good while anyway, and Jenred's not exactly known for being a mediator type.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 04, 2011, 07:19:05 PM
Bedwyr,
 
Have you thought about a structure similar to a Japanese Council of Reagents, where acting out of step might lead to being cannibalized by your peers?  It was much safer to be king of a small piece of the world, in other words.

I'm not familiar with the concept, you'll have to explain it to me later.  And since Tim already covered the chemistry joke, I'll let it slide (grins).
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Vellos on March 05, 2011, 12:25:31 AM
Quote
Council of Reagents, huh?  Well, they'd better have good chemistry, or it'll never work out.

All my good jokes are stolen by my predecessors!
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Haerthorne on March 05, 2011, 02:04:10 PM
I'll be eager to see how the Empire continues when the emperor becomes particularly unpopular. If Jenred manages to instill a precedent that its better inside than out, then we can have a fair few powerful people more interested in keeping the system for their own benefit. The political dynamics should be interesting for the knights as well if we sort out the odd dispute by a few raids here, a war there...

Now two proper questions: First, do you think the opinion of the Emperor and the other rulers would forcefully overrule another realm if they felt it was dangerous to the empire was a whole?

Second, when you talk about how external wars would be thought, do you mean to say you'd rather everyone do their own thing or do you think that the rest of the Empire will usually (say with a smaller realm of the Empire declaring war on a larger external foe) to avoid being weakened as a whole?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 05, 2011, 02:14:17 PM
Now two proper questions: First, do you think the opinion of the Emperor and the other rulers would forcefully overrule another realm if they felt it was dangerous to the empire was a whole?

Depends on how dangerous, but yes, I would think the Emperor could and would.

Quote
Second, when you talk about how external wars would be thought, do you mean to say you'd rather everyone do their own thing or do you think that the rest of the Empire will usually (say with a smaller realm of the Empire declaring war on a larger external foe) to avoid being weakened as a whole?

Individual.  If a tiny realm of the Empire starts a fight it can't win, then it'll lose.  Jenred's not interested in saving idiots from themselves.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Igelfeld on March 05, 2011, 05:02:31 PM
But isn't Jenred interested in expanding his Empire?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 05, 2011, 08:35:56 PM
But isn't Jenred interested in expanding his Empire?

Indeed he is.  But he's firmly of the opinion that, say, thirty regions under leadership that is all competent is better than thirty five with incompetent leaders.  It also makes good political sense, as the rest of the island will be far less likely to unite against the empire if they see that it only unites for good reasons and not just to save parts of itself.  Now, given that this is Jenred we're talking about (who is by far the most insane character I've ever roleplayed in or out of Battlemaster) "good" reasons may be a little flexible, but the Far East seems to have accepted that about him.  Not even the Zonasans really protested when he marched an army down to sack half their realm over Erandi's (quite mild) insult to Edara.

From the Monarch level...Why would you want to help one of your rivals for rank keep power against you unless the emperor made an issue of it?  Sure, there may be the usual politics and alliances, but everyone has to contend with those so that's not an empire-specific problem.

And even more importantly, from an OOC standpoint, that's just not fun.  I'm somewhat skeptical about how often people claim gangbangs happen for no reason (as I've seen just how many times those protesting thought that insulting every other Ruler and pissing on their religion didn't justify the gangbang) but I'm fully aware that the phenomenon does happen, and want to prevent it as much as possible.  Hence why I really like the challenge system.  Bringing legitimate, guaranteed, almost whenever you want one-on-one wars with both sides barred from accepting any outside help and a set time limit so the war doesn't get old and boring?  That's one of my dreams come true, and I think that holds for a lot of other people too.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Velax on March 06, 2011, 05:30:35 AM
Out of curiosity, what will be done with all the gold that goes to the Imperial Throne? You're talking about hundreds, perhaps thousands if the empire gets big enough, of gold each week. Loans to less-well off members of the empire? Tournaments?

And will the Imperial Throne have its own council? It's own judge, banker, general? Those positions would have to be RPed, I guess, given the Imperial Throne won't be its own separate realm...unless of course the Emperor took a single city for himself, seceded it and used that as the Imperial Seat.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on March 06, 2011, 06:11:26 AM
Out of curiosity, what will be done with all the gold that goes to the Imperial Throne? You're talking about hundreds, perhaps thousands if the empire gets big enough, of gold each week. Loans to less-well off members of the empire? Tournaments?

Infrastructure funding for badly hit areas, diplomacy, bribery (but I repeat myself), patronizing the arts, tournaments...The phrase in the Charter is going to be something along the lines of "for the good of the empire".

Quote
And will the Imperial Throne have its own council? It's own judge, banker, general? Those positions would have to be RPed, I guess, given the Imperial Throne won't be its own separate realm...unless of course the Emperor took a single city for himself, seceded it and used that as the Imperial Seat.

I don't think an imperial council will be necessary, and having a separate realm for the imperial seat would not mesh with the rest of the plans for how the emperor would be selected.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Nerukou on April 02, 2011, 03:03:42 AM
You forgot the fund that pays for the company of scantily-clad women with large bosoms.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Bedwyr on April 02, 2011, 04:39:17 AM
You forgot the fund that pays for the company of scantily-clad women with large bosoms.

(grins) Not in Jenred's court.  Obsessed with his wife, remember?  I imagine future High Kings might have something of that nature, of course...
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on April 02, 2011, 10:20:59 AM
(grins) Not in Jenred's court.  Obsessed with his wife, remember?  I imagine future High Kings might have something of that nature, of course...

They aren't for the King, they are for all the courtiers. I mean otherwise our attention will naturally be drawn to the only buxom Lady in the court, and nobody wants to see the consequences of that.
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Nerukou on April 02, 2011, 10:50:23 AM
Who said we were sharing with Jenred?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: Velax on April 02, 2011, 04:14:19 PM
Really? The courtiers have a thing for Sundar?
Title: Re: Phoenix Talk, with Jenred Kindon-Bedwyr or Matthew, as you choose
Post by: De-Legro on April 03, 2011, 05:29:57 AM
Have you seen Sundar in stockings? Irresistible.