BattleMaster Community

Toms Other Games => Shopkeeper => Topic started by: Tom on July 14, 2015, 10:57:23 AM

Title: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 14, 2015, 10:57:23 AM
Alpha 2 test is beginning. The towns are set up. Check them out here:

http://shopkeeper.lemuria.org/api/towns/1
http://shopkeeper.lemuria.org/api/towns/2

And pick your shop (simply give me the ID# - they are in the URL when you click on shop details).


You will notice shops now have layouts, meaning they do not allow all sections to be built anymore. There are three different layouts available for starting shops. Later on, you can upgrade to new shops.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Geminus on July 14, 2015, 12:50:53 PM
ID 7

Geminus Adventurer's Corner
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Crayne on July 14, 2015, 12:56:43 PM
ID#6. - Accoutrements for the Adventuring Gentleman
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 14, 2015, 01:08:43 PM
ID #5 please and thank you.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 14, 2015, 01:56:29 PM
ID #5 please and thank you.

I want 5 :(

Guess I'll go 2 instead...

Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 14, 2015, 02:09:41 PM
I want 5 :(

Guess I'll go 2 instead...

What is it worth to you :)
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 14, 2015, 02:21:27 PM
What is it worth to you :)

It's whether to be the sole trader of jewellery or armour that's the question... Everyone needs armour, but there's probably more money in jewellery in the longer term...
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 14, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
It's whether to be the sole trader of jewellery or armour that's the question... Everyone needs armour, but there's probably more money in jewellery in the longer term...

Having tried the Jewellery + potion route, it was not successful given the current quests. While parities would often have > 10 demand for damage and armour, they had relatively low demand for stat increases, really slowing down your growth. As it stands now I think specialised stores simply are too disadvantages compared to diversified ones.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 14, 2015, 05:41:36 PM
Having tried the Jewellery + potion route, it was not successful given the current quests. While parities would often have > 10 demand for damage and armour, they had relatively low demand for stat increases, really slowing down your growth. As it stands now I think specialised stores simply are too disadvantages compared to diversified ones.

Why have you picked a shop that specialises in potions and jewellery then???  ???
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 14, 2015, 08:23:42 PM
I just realized that renaming won't work in the client yet, so please modify your postings with the shop ID # and also include the name for it.

I will be sending out shop keys in private mail shortly.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Penchant on July 14, 2015, 08:26:05 PM
Id #4 Sansibar's Best Shop
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 15, 2015, 12:52:19 AM
Why have you picked a shop that specialises in potions and jewellery then???  ???

It was my understanding that shop layout is separate from location ID. I only just realised you can click on the shop to see what sections it can have. Thus I change my location

Shop ID#1
The Adventure's Emporium
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 15, 2015, 01:26:40 AM
ID 3
The Best Shop in Town
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 15, 2015, 08:38:34 AM
All shops set up.

Sansibar has 2 shops empty, Tilog 1. As I want to use one myself, and I think James is still missing, tell your friends that there is only one last slot available for the test, first come first serve.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Vita on July 15, 2015, 08:45:56 AM
Oh, I suppose I could give this a try as one of the shared-shops, if someone else wants to join on later?

Sansibar, ID2 is preferred. You need anything else from me?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 15, 2015, 10:32:55 AM
As I think it's now been abandoned...

ID 5, Rax's Rocks & Random Regalia
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 15, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
Oh, I suppose I could give this a try as one of the shared-shops, if someone else wants to join on later?

Sansibar, ID2 is preferred. You need anything else from me?

A name for the shop, please.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 15, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
Everyone, if you still can, please wait for the 3D client to buy shop sections. That's one of the few parts that works already.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 15, 2015, 02:30:59 PM
Everyone, if you still can, please wait for the 3D client to buy shop sections. That's one of the few parts that works already.

Oops... If you want to delete mine (and refund me) I can try again when it's ready. Apologies for rushing! :)
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 15, 2015, 02:39:52 PM
...looking at the available items list, delivery time is currently listed with a value of gold rather that turns/days :) is that to bribe the couriers to deliver more quickly?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Vita on July 15, 2015, 02:58:27 PM
A name for the shop, please.

I Can't Believe It's Another Best Shop
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 15, 2015, 03:20:33 PM
I have created the first 4 parties, and will create more during the first turns, to make sure they are not all in the same phase.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 15, 2015, 03:27:32 PM
ok, go ahead and buy your first shop section or two, everyone. 3D client is delayed because I just discovered a non-trivial bug.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 15, 2015, 03:52:50 PM
Ooh, it takes time for shop sections to be built now... Wondered why I couldn't buy any stock...
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 15, 2015, 08:56:02 PM
I will change that soon, for now I will just speed up the first few turns a lot. But the concept is that the first section in a shop comes immediately.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Crayne on July 15, 2015, 10:14:16 PM
Will shop for sections first thing tomorrow.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 16, 2015, 04:36:29 AM
What is my shop key? When I click upgrade shop I get "The server returned a "403 Forbidden"."
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 16, 2015, 06:59:18 AM
What is my shop key? When I click upgrade shop I get "The server returned a "403 Forbidden"."

Check your email
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 16, 2015, 09:40:13 AM
I sent shop keys to everyone by mail. If you haven't received yours, yell and I will send again.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 16, 2015, 09:40:44 AM
Got it. I didn't know you sent it by mail.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 16, 2015, 10:59:43 AM
I've run several turns, some sections should be constructed now, go and buy items.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 16, 2015, 11:10:22 AM
Trying to buy items gives me a 403 error :( (as does looking at upgrading the shop, or trying to sell to characters)
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 16, 2015, 11:54:26 AM
you might have to go to the account page and unlock your shop again.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 16, 2015, 12:38:45 PM
Hmmm, I can do it through my iPad, but not through the Mac... Used same key on both. Under 'your account' it does tell me (on both) that I have the key for my shop...

Looks like I needed to clear out my history... All sorted now.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Penchant on July 16, 2015, 03:24:34 PM
Hmmm, I can do it through my iPad, but not through the Mac... Used same key on both. Under 'your account' it does tell me (on both) that I have the key for my shop...

Looks like I needed to clear out my history... All sorted now.
It saved your old one though that also has the same name of your new one. The old shop wouldn't work with the new town, thus the issue on your Mac.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 16, 2015, 11:47:39 PM
I ran another turn to finish more sections and some deliveries. I will most likely enable automated turns over the weekend.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 17, 2015, 03:40:52 AM
These parties have so much gold but until they start going on their quests, can't really sell anything to earn profit.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 17, 2015, 05:48:15 AM
These parties have so much gold but until they start going on their quests, can't really sell anything to earn profit.

Each character appears to get 50 gold for starting equipment. You can make minor profits off them from this, and in doing so help ensure they actually complete their starter quests.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 17, 2015, 09:16:22 AM
I've given 100 gold to every shop to compensate for the initial maintenance and I've run another turn manually.


Automated turns have been enabled and will run once a day from now on.

Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 18, 2015, 09:19:33 AM
Automated turns are running properly, we've had the first this morning.

Question to you all: Do you want one or two turns a day?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Vita on July 18, 2015, 09:34:17 AM
I'd prefer two.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 18, 2015, 09:54:39 AM
I'd prefer two.

Same
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 19, 2015, 02:10:17 AM
I think the same, so we'll switch to 2 turns.

4 am and 4 pm server time (i.e. my time, GMT+1)
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 19, 2015, 09:08:09 PM
Just to let you all know: I ran a turn manually, because I needed debug output to fix a bug.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 20, 2015, 06:37:28 AM
Unfortunately, there's a bug causing a few quest logs to fail (server error 500).

I fixed the bug, but I can't fix the logs. So they will remain broken, but new ones will work.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 21, 2015, 07:30:40 AM
What I noticed is that so many parties fail their early quests because they have almost no equipment.

What's going on there? Nobody selling them weapons and armour?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 21, 2015, 12:34:42 PM
When they first visited our shops, our ordered items were still coming in. I sold knives and other cheap items for very small 1~2 gold profit but I couldn't really sell anything to help those parties with like armors and such since my ordered items had not arrived at the time.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Vita on July 21, 2015, 05:43:22 PM
In my experience, I got a customer the first day, before any shop sections were bought.

I got another customer 2015/07/19 04:30. Sold them plenty of armour. They went questing. They haven't finished their quest since. Several groups have finished/failed their quests, come back to town, shopped, went questining again, and finished/failed their quest again. My group? Still questing. Also, I've had no other customers.

EDIT: All your new parties showed up in the other shops again. Am I doing something wrong that they don't like my shop? I thought a shop sign at the beginning would attract more folks to my shop, but it doesn't seem to have done anything. I've got leather armour, scale armour, chainmail, torches, oil lamps etc.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 21, 2015, 11:37:12 PM
I've given every shop 200 gold to kickstart the game more.

The starting phase is tricky, I will have to manage it somehow differently.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 21, 2015, 11:38:03 PM
I got another customer 2015/07/19 04:30. Sold them plenty of armour. They went questing. They haven't finished their quest since. Several groups have finished/failed their quests, come back to town, shopped, went questining again, and finished/failed their quest again. My group? Still questing. Also, I've had no other customers.

Maybe it's stuck? Which party is this?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 23, 2015, 07:48:03 AM
Why are parties failing so many quests:


Nobody selling them any torches?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 23, 2015, 07:51:06 AM
Everyone has fallen very much silent. Summertime or some other reason?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Vita on July 23, 2015, 04:35:08 PM
I might be wrong, but I don't think Geminus or Crayne have been keeping up. The startup phase is slow, which is discouraging; I understand thats natural in an alpha, but others may not. And yeah, summer, I think some folks may be vacationing like James mentioned he would be earlier. And I think Zakky too from something mentioned on IRC?

I also think I'm the only one who has been selling torches and oil lamps.

I've started to get more parties, so yay.

If there's any type of feedback you'd like most, just ask.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 24, 2015, 05:27:01 AM
Everyone has fallen very much silent. Summertime or some other reason?

I am semi inactive and will be for another week. That said I can't sell torches but have sold quite a bit of armour and weapons. I still maintain that the parties shopping strategy sets them up for entering quests under prepared.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 24, 2015, 08:17:43 AM
I am semi inactive and will be for another week. That said I can't sell torches but have sold quite a bit of armour and weapons. I still maintain that the parties shopping strategy sets them up for entering quests under prepared.

Most of the things my shops sells are of very little use to start up parties. So if I do sell anything to the newer parties my reputation then flows downwards. I'm sure this will change once they start doing the harder quests though.

Perhaps shop layouts (or shop sections existing within a shop) should limit the experience level of parties that visit you?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Vita on July 24, 2015, 07:07:02 PM
Are parties 14(Provision Division) & 15(Corrupted Exterminators) stuck again? They haven't moved for 3 and 5 turns, respectively, now. Also parties 20, 22, 5, and 7 might be stuck after failing/finishing their quests? They haven't come back to either town yet and they usually return the next turn.

Edit: Also parties 3, 10, and 2 might be stuck on their quests? They left to quest 2 turns ago and haven't had a quest result while others who left at same time have finished, returned, shopped, and left on another quest.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 25, 2015, 08:34:30 AM
Yes, there was a turn bug that I just fixed.


I also see that the shop layouts and resulting limitation of sellable items might be detrimental to gameplay. I'll re-think it. Maybe I should limit not which sections you can buy, but how many of them?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 25, 2015, 09:43:41 AM
I also see that the shop layouts and resulting limitation of sellable items might be detrimental to gameplay. I'll re-think it. Maybe I should limit not which sections you can buy, but how many of them?

I think once there is a mix of parties from new to experienced then it will work. As it is, the layout I have is not good for new parties (although I can occasionally sell them items, they are generally not of use in the lower level quests those parties can do so my reputation with them suffers).

Maybe allow all shops a 'basic' table or such that allows items that can be bought for 5/10 gold to be sold on?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 26, 2015, 10:21:23 AM
I'm thinking about changing shop layouts so that most corners can have more than one section. So with a basic shop, for example, you could have 3 corners. One can have an assorted items table or a weapons section, two can have a weapons or an armour section, three can have a library or an alchemy lab.

This way, you can have 6 or so different layouts (you can't have two weapons sections). It would also add gameplay by giving you the option of selling sections and building a different one instead. I think it would be a good move, but it adds a lot of additional work to the 3D client.

But that said, maybe I need to make that step back, put the 3D client on the backburner and focus on the core gameplay first.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Zakilevo on July 26, 2015, 10:24:08 AM
There should also be more shop sections for later games. Only a couple layouts can have magic weapon or armor shop while corner shops can't have either of them meaning later on, they won't have much to sell.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 26, 2015, 12:06:37 PM
There should also be more shop sections for later games. Only a couple layouts can have magic weapon or armor shop while corner shops can't have either of them meaning later on, they won't have much to sell.

Not really true, there are always new characters replacing old, equipment broken which needs replacing and parties do not always have the gold to do either with top of the line equipment. The problem I still have at the moment is everything is party based, so selling one member a high end sword while ignoring another member having no weapon has little repercussion in many instances. The game revolves far too much around maximising profit on each item sold and no nearly enough on ensuring parties are well equiped.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 26, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
Reputation and customer loyalty are intended to provide the mechanics for that.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: James on July 26, 2015, 01:37:20 PM
So... Party 18 (the great guard) have a positive loyalty to my shop, yet when I look at them they don't appear to have any items I can stock, and reading through their logs, they haven't lost anything either.

nice to have someone like me, I just don't know why!
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 26, 2015, 07:48:35 PM
I've stopped the alpha for now, working on a new shop layout system that will hopefully fix these gameplay issues.

Not sure if I can update non-destructively. Probably not. I'm deploying the new system already and will see what happens. Expect lots of errors.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on July 28, 2015, 01:07:19 AM
Reputation and customer loyalty are intended to provide the mechanics for that.

Except all they do is introduce a system to be gamed on the road to profit.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on July 28, 2015, 06:14:12 PM
Can you elaborate on that?
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: De-Legro on August 02, 2015, 01:19:26 PM
Can you elaborate on that?

For example, does the party have high demand for some damage? Well sell them as many low value goods, like potions, as possible before hand to up your loyalty and allow you to sell the weapons for a even greater mark up. Since the systems are deterministic, they are simply another currency.
Title: Re: Heroes of Sansibar and Tilog
Post by: Tom on August 03, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
Ah. Well, that is only because at this time the implementation is simplistic. I do plan to make it more tricky.