BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: dustole on August 16, 2015, 03:53:51 PM
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I'm splitting up Arcaea and founding a new empire!
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(http://s16.postimg.org/8u87bc01x/treebeard.png)
Edit: Oh hey, what a nice 900th post!
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Not unopposed.
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I'm splitting up Arcaea and founding a new empire!
I can see the first part happening but not the second part.
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maybe you are right about not being able to fully form an empire. It may not cover the entire continent but I'll get a significant portion.
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If you consider "significant portion" as <50%, then sure! I'm not sure you realize how much resentment there is against the empire these days. It was only every established through the might of Arcaea's armies. Time and attrition has mostly wiped that out. And now you're going to split up what little remains. Which is fine with me. Arcaea is too big for the island's good.
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I have to try. FEI is boring and Claudio is likely the only noble capable of pulling it off at this time.
But yea Arcaea is too big for such a small continent.
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Not sure how many realms will submit to a new Empire, but I appreciate someone shaking things up some.
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There's still a lot going on with this and I understand many of us have characters in some way involved... Any chance we could either keep the conversation more generalized or hold on to comment until after it pans out a bit? Just from what's been said here, it could alter how I would approach the topic in-game.
Luckily, I took a pretty strong stance from the get-go and I'm good at keeping these things separate, so it'd be pretty obvious if my character's mindset changed at this point.
If you guys don't see it as a potential issues, I'm cool with that, too, just thought the concern should be raised.
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Eirikr,
We arent talking any specifics. No details have been discussed.
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Youre right, though. This is to specific for a forum conversion right now.
Though my character has already taken a definite ig stance. :p
This is pretty much the last gasp for FEI. I'm about to bail for greener pastures.
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Eirikr,
We arent talking any specifics. No details have been discussed.
That's what I was getting at, though and why I asked politely - there's definitely enough information in here to affect how a person plays the situation in-game. Is it enough to fundamentally change it? No, probably not. But there is still story to be written.
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Thanks, now that some things have shaken out, we're probably more in the clear.
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It should be interesting to see how this shakes out.
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Yeah, despite my character's severe opposition to it all, I'm very glad something of such scale is happening. I don't mean to sound self-serving, but I think it'd have been really boring if Arcaea just agreed with Claudio. The plan would've given FEI some juice in any case, but now I think it's got waaaaaaay more.
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My other Ducal supporter couldn't log in. Remton Duchy will be sorely missed in this upcoming fight. I look forward to seeing who is elected as Ruler of Arcaea.
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I still can't change the allegiance of Nocaneb, either. I tried to delay banning Sythia as long as possible, but we can't sit and wait on game mechanics. :-\
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I'm splitting up Arcaea and founding a new empire!
So how's that going for you? 8)
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So how's that going for you? 8)
Considering how dustole usually plays to create conflict and chaos, pretty well. So your smugness is rather misplaced.
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Whether he succeeds of fails, its that only thing that could possibly save FEI. And, hey, at least he's doing something to create some fun.
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It's sad the whole thing fizzled so fast.
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It still caused a change that can bring about more changes and conflict. Its not over yet. Depends on how many people want change, and how many will roll over to prevent losing positions or status.
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This thread makes me miss the pre-forum BM days.
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This thread makes me miss the pre-forum BM days.
In what way?
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On an unrelated note, I've found that when I start being bold and making stands (good or bad) I go and make my character a hero... so they can die...
When is that death toggle coming? :P
EDIT: Well, not actually because I want them to die, but because it feels right and it's only fair. Plus, dat random element. 8)
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This thread makes me miss the pre-forum BM days.
With the previous incarnation of the forums (with the terrible thread view), the irc channels and all of the Bay12 forum people, does the current forum really make any difference?
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*yawn*
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Er, yeah. Is GDD dragging its feet? One big battle with Cathay and then silence?
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Er, yeah. Is GDD dragging its feet? One big battle with Cathay and then silence?
Don't worry, things are afoot. ;3
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So your smugness is rather misplaced.
Ummm....
I'm splitting up Arcaea and founding a new empire!
Wait.... I'm the one who's smug?
Gotcha.
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Ummm....
Wait.... I'm the one who's smug?
Gotcha.
You seem to ignore the fact that dustole never has played their characters in a way that allows for lasting power. His goals involve creating more conflict to keep islands interesting. I would label him a destabilizing force.
I doubt that dustole ever expected for the realm led by him to last forever, but he splintered Arcaea and left it unstable, which I think was the point.
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From interactions ic and ooc I can say fairly certainly that dustole fully believed he was going to be crowned emperor, and while his intent may have been to open up fei for more conflict, it would have been fun only for his side.
This is a much more fun result which looks to be ramping up to a fun and fairly even war, so we can give him credit for that much.
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Although more credit is due to those who stood against him. 8)
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From interactions ic and ooc I can say fairly certainly that dustole fully believed he was going to be crowned emperor, and while his intent may have been to open up fei for more conflict, it would have been fun only for his side.
This is a much more fun result which looks to be ramping up to a fun and fairly even war, so we can give him credit for that much.
From my YEARS of interaction with dustole, I can fairly confidently state that while he would have liked to be crowned emperor, he never counted on it. And assuming it would only be fun for his side is a very, very cynical way of viewing things.
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The war for empire on fei was fun for a few years, so long as the outcome was in doubt. As soon as it became inevitable, it became a long slog of boredom waiting for it to be over already.
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@gundammerc: the plan he discussed with me was to ally every realm except ow and coralynth and then declare war on each of them until they swore allegiance to claudio. he was quite sure in both ic and ooc communication that he would have the support of arcaea, sorraine, zonasa and gdd, and alternately made promises and threats according to this assumption to get myself and others on board with his plan. when he failed to gain my/jonn's support he announced to myself and others that cathay would be "destroyed", not just beaten into submission, but ended as a realm.
what is cynical is to assume that this plan would be somehow fun for the players of the realms being ganged up on. losing wars can be fun but impossible ones are not. had his plan succeeded it would have resulted in less nobles and less realms for the already depopulated far east, a point which i made several times in the course of trying to negotiate a more universally palatable version of his plan.
in fact it would not have been fun for hardly anyone, unless easy mode gangbang wars are your sort of thing. i would like to think of most bm players as appreciating the challenge of a good even war. which it looks like we are about to have, so that's fun.
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"he was quite sure in both ic and ooc communication that he would have the support of arcaea, sorraine, zonasa and gdd"
My character, the ruler of Sorraine, was quite explicit both privately and publicly, that she directly opposed the reformation of the empire. I told him directly, and announced openly to all rulers, that i opposed the plan. Dustole was trying to fast talk and bull!@#$ his way into getting what he wanted. It's awesome, hes good at it, and we love him for it. He was at least trying to make something happen, which is more than most of us. (Me included...)
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"he was quite sure in both ic and ooc communication that he would have the support of arcaea, sorraine, zonasa and gdd"
My character, the ruler of Sorraine, was quite explicit both privately and publicly, that she directly opposed the reformation of the empire. I told him directly, and announced openly to all rulers, that i opposed the plan. Dustole was trying to fast talk and bull!@#$ his way into getting what he wanted. It's awesome, hes good at it, and we love him for it. He was at least trying to make something happen, which is more than most of us. (Me included...)
Pretty much this, right here. He's so good at it that I genuinely believed Arcaea was alone - only when I made my stand public did I find out that so many people were being hoodwinked. If I'd just rolled over as was intended, it would have just as easily become reality because it would look exactly like he said it would. It sounds simple, but it was really clever.
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@indirik yeah, for the sake of brevity i condensed all the various plans dustole/claudio presented. it was around his second or third permutation that I realized he was just riffing on bs and probably spinning all sorts of tales to others as well.
@eirikr this is exactly why jonn urged nairii and optimus to get in touch with foreign rulers to let them know that someone somewhere was totally against claudio's plan and willing to stand against him.
and yes, while I was adamantly against his plan ic and ooc I have to give credit where it's due, the whole thing was a near-masterful act of political trickery.
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Good job ruining it whoever was involved in electing the ruler of Arcaea. Far East is dead now.
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If only we'd elected Claudio as Emperor of the Far East everything would have been perfect!
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If only we'd elected Claudio as Emperor of the Far East everything would have been perfect!
Anyone who'd butt out of wars that aren't their business when they already have a war of their own would have been fine. But you've been an idiot from the start Qyasogk, and can't see anything for what it is.
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My character has been wounded. Who was elected?
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i wondered when the crying would start. didnt have to wait long, i guess.
it was noticeably absent when cathay was outnumbered three to one, had no relevant allies and no food.
maybe thats why weve been winning anyway.
buck up guys, every time arcaea enters a war someone starts crying that fei is dead. yet it keeps going and i would posit is more interesting now than it has been in a while. figure something out.
@indirik ruler doesnt vacate as easily as other council positions (maybe depending on govt type, cant speak for republics) so taylin is still queen.
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i wondered when the crying would start. didnt have to wait long, i guess.
it was noticeably absent when cathay was outnumbered three to one, had no relevant allies and no food.
maybe thats why weve been winning anyway.
buck up guys, every time arcaea enters a war someone starts crying that fei is dead. yet it keeps going and i would posit is more interesting now than it has been in a while. figure something out.
@indirik ruler doesnt vacate as easily as other council positions (maybe depending on govt type, cant speak for republics) so taylin is still queen.
lol, someone's a moron. Cathay isn't outnumbered by nearly that much, and what it does face is hardly as coordinated as they are, being three small realms trying to work together. You'd have a point if it were a 1vs1 with the one realm being smaller than the other, or even a 1vs3 where all realms are equal in size. But that's not the case. All of the realms facing Cathay are smaller, and have to coordinate their actions with one another besides the coordination needed for their own armies.
Besides which, Arcaea doesn't even have the balls to declare on any of the other realms, they're content to kill off the newest realm. So pretty much what's going to happen is the nobles that were in that third realm will go to the other two realms, concentrate the forces of the realms allied against Cathay more, and provide an even larger enemy for Cathay. So Arcaea is pretty much screwing Cathay over.
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I thought someone meant that arcaea had a new ruler...
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I thought someone meant that arcaea had a new ruler...
gotcha. they were referring to viridiana.
@gundammerc if youre going to throw insults at least read my post. "was" is a past tense verb. at the peak of your alliance's noble count it was 36 vs 12 nobles, exactly three to one. even before myern existed it was 30 on 12 when sorraine and GDD each had 15. Previous to Arcaea's entrance to the war, or maybe previous to your most recent embarrassment in Lenamaziel, your alliance had 24 or 26, cant recall exactly, so you still had twice our number.
Now you're down to 18 and if you do the math, we were surviving against (and beating in skirmishes) Sorraine and GDD as two realms with nearly double that noble count, and beating you guys badly as three realms with 2.5x that noble count. So no, Arcaea isn't screwing us over, because it doesn't matter how many realms you are, but a good try at spinning the situation.
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gotcha. they were referring to viridiana.
@gundammerc if youre going to throw insults at least read my post. "was" is a past tense verb. at the peak of your alliance's noble count it was 36 vs 12 nobles, exactly three to one. even before myern existed it was 30 on 12 when sorraine and GDD each had 15. Previous to Arcaea's entrance to the war, or maybe previous to your most recent embarrassment in Lenamaziel, your alliance had 24 or 26, cant recall exactly, so you still had twice our number.
Now you're down to 18 and if you do the math, we were surviving against (and beating in skirmishes) Sorraine and GDD as two realms with nearly double that noble count, and beating you guys badly as three realms with 2.5x that noble count. So no, Arcaea isn't screwing us over, because it doesn't matter how many realms you are, but a good try at spinning the situation.
Yes, and you aren't reading mine. Or did you miss the part where I specifically mentioned the lack of cooperation because it is separate smaller realms? Oh, and love the required use of the word "spinning" as if that makes your argument correct. But it doesn't matter what I say, because you'll still be whining about how the smaller realms outnumber you. Here, let me put it another way to show you how little you actually face.
Principality of Zonasa: A paper tiger that doesn't even have enough nobles to rule its own lands. Basically what Morek was on Dwilight, except only an equal to Cathay if it were actually populated. Half of its regions don't even have lords.
GDD: A realm currently in the process of imploding on itself. Has had a ruler, lord and a duke leave the realm, and I believe the General paused their character. Fat chance much resistance will be found there.
Myern: Still in the process of stabilizing itself after the formation, barely avoided a war with GDD, and currently under attack from two sides. Possibly also leeching off of the death throes that GDD is going through. Out of the war, so not even a threat.
Sorraine: The only strong, stable realm of the four. Pretty much your main threat, as they don't need to worry about Arcaea unless something major happens.
Oh yes, you're clearly in the fight of your lives here. *rolls eyes*
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Lol ok.
First off I didnt address your lame excuse of "its so hard to coordinate three realms" because... it's a lame excuse. You had three on one odds and completely botched it. That's not some inherent handicap of being multiple realms, that's just poor leadership and strategy.
Spinning is the exact word for what you're doing, and yes, my argument is correct and yours is wrong. Arcaea is not screwing Cathay in any way.
I'm not whining, I'm winning.
Your realms are now smaller because we beat you a few times and your realmmates quit in droves. When I talk about odds being against Cathay I am talking about the past, what part of that are you missing out on? At one point GDD and Sorraine each had more nobles than Cathay, either realm should have been capable of doing some serious damage on its own.
My entire point is that no one came on the forums crying WHEN the odds WERE (notice the use of past tense) against Cathay, most of our nobles just hung tough and followed their leaders. Their leaders took responsibility for bringing them through hard times and lo and behold we came out on top without any help. Arcaea is late to the party and we will see how much leftover cake they want before they leave.
In contrast, your side completely crumbled as soon as we put up any resistance and its most vocal leader is showing us why - excuses on excuses instead of knuckling up and taking responsibility.
I have no idea why PoZ is on that list, we are at peace with them. "Paper tiger" is a term for something that looks threatening but isn't. PoZ doesn't look threatening to Cathay.
Sorraine is not a threat at ten nobles and no functional allies.
To sum up: you lost when you should have won. The odds are against you now because that's how things go when you lose over and over to a smaller enemy and people get tired of it and leave. You should not whine about it after the fact.
rip
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Now you're down to 18 and if you do the math, we were surviving against (and beating in skirmishes) Sorraine and GDD as two realms with nearly double that noble count, and beating you guys badly as three realms with 2.5x that noble count.
Three realms? What are you talking about? The realms fighting Cathay were Sorraine and GDD. (Well, that's *after* some slick political maneuvering changed it from EVERYONE V. Sorraine, in which Cathay was more than willing to engage in a one-sided gang-bang against someone else.) It may *technically* be three realms against Cathay now, but that's pretty much your own fault. Your ruler has been extremely hostile and provoking on the ruler's channel. (Which is great, because it keeps the war going.) While Sorraine and GDD were already at war with Cathay, she deliberately brought Myern into the war against Cathay.
When it was Cathay v. GDD/Sorraine, you guys were losing, as evidenced by the fact that we took Lenamaziel back, GDD was roving your lands looting, and we were launching assaults against your capital. (Mostly because it was the ONLY region we could attack. We would have much rather attacked somewhere else.) Sure you were winning the occasional battle, and so were we. But beating us badly? That's a ridiculous stretch.
The entire Sorraine/GDD war against Cathay slowed to grinding halt for a couple reasons, even before Arcaea imploded. First, Sorraine/GDD sucked at coordination. Not because "coordinating is HARD", but because we sucked at it. And because we didn't give a !@#$ about the war, mainly because of the second reason: The battle front was a single region sitting between _two_fortified_cities_! And on Cathay's side it was your friggin' *capital* which you stocked with a militia force that by itself was nearly as big as our entire mobile army! And our our side, GDD packed Colasan with nearly as much, I think. No one could do anything. IIRC Cathay attacked Colasan a couple times and lost miserably, and the north attacked Anacan a couple times, also losing miserably.
This isn't anyone's fault, and I don't blame you or GDD for going the militia route. It's become a pandemic problem. Gold is way too plentiful, and player count too low. What's the best defense? Stock up in militia! Entire wars have ground to a shrieking halt because one or both sides just started cramming regions full of militia. The Sorraine/GDD v. Cathay war is only one of them. Myern's entry into the war (which Cathay's ruler insisted on fighting) doesn't change anything. Neither side can do crap to the other except waste armies.
More nobles is a great argument for why some particular war should be won or lost, especially these days when nobles are so scarce overall. But it only goes so far. Double the nobles? Maybe. I don't think I ever really counted. It just didn't matter. What did matter is that even if we had full participation of both the Grand Duchy and Sorraine, we couldn't have broken through Anacan. We tried and lost several times. When GDD went through PoZ lands to loot Cathay and draw Cathay's army away from Anacan, Sorraine tried to attack, but had to rush the attack and botched it, because no one from GDD bothered to tell Sorraine they were doing it until it was almost over. (Yeah, we sucked at coordination.) Cathay, for their part, also launched a few equally pathetic attacks on Lenamaziel and Colasan.
Face it: The war sucked. For both sides. That's why people are leaving. Not because one side is losing, but because wars on FEI just aren't fun for either side. Too many fortifications and choke points. Not enough nobles to bust through them.
In contrast, your side completely crumbled as soon as we put up any resistance
Yeah... no. The entire war fell apart when Claudio decided to become emperor, and everyone stopped caring about Cathay. Several nobles left Sorraine and GDD to join the newly formed realms. Sorraine stopped fighting to gather forces to prepare for a fight against the reformed empire, and GDD was gutted of nobles. And ever since, the war against Cathay has been fought half-heartedly, if at all, mostly because no one cares about FEI.
FEI is falling apart. The only two realms that have enough nobles to really function are Cathay and Arcaea.
As an aside, my character just recovered after being wounded for nearly four days. A lot has changed in four days. Too bad none of it really makes the island any better.
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Lol ok.
First off I didnt address your lame excuse of "its so hard to coordinate three realms" because... it's a lame excuse. You had three on one odds and completely botched it. That's not some inherent handicap of being multiple realms, that's just poor leadership and strategy.
Spinning is the exact word for what you're doing, and yes, my argument is correct and yours is wrong. Arcaea is not screwing Cathay in any way.
I'm not whining, I'm winning.
Your realms are now smaller because we beat you a few times and your realmmates quit in droves. When I talk about odds being against Cathay I am talking about the past, what part of that are you missing out on? At one point GDD and Sorraine each had more nobles than Cathay, either realm should have been capable of doing some serious damage on its own.
My entire point is that no one came on the forums crying WHEN the odds WERE (notice the use of past tense) against Cathay, most of our nobles just hung tough and followed their leaders. Their leaders took responsibility for bringing them through hard times and lo and behold we came out on top without any help. Arcaea is late to the party and we will see how much leftover cake they want before they leave.
In contrast, your side completely crumbled as soon as we put up any resistance and its most vocal leader is showing us why - excuses on excuses instead of knuckling up and taking responsibility.
I have no idea why PoZ is on that list, we are at peace with them. "Paper tiger" is a term for something that looks threatening but isn't. PoZ doesn't look threatening to Cathay.
Sorraine is not a threat at ten nobles and no functional allies.
To sum up: you lost when you should have won. The odds are against you now because that's how things go when you lose over and over to a smaller enemy and people get tired of it and leave. You should not whine about it after the fact.
rip
Some of the most deluded, self-centered bull!@#$ I've ever seen. GDD collapsed because literally no one was active, and dustole left the realm. This had nothing to do with whatever fighting you did, because no one even heard anything about it. There weren't enough messages for any kind of picture to be made.
Oh, and a paper tiger is exactly what PoZ is. Their realm size and production should make them equal to Cathay, but they can't actually fight at their full potential because of lack of nobles. I'll leave why I put them in for future discussion.
Myern hasn't even been fighting the war for most of the time I've been there, more like we're doing triage from crisis to crisis. Besides that, we don't even have enough regions to support the nobles we have to the same efficiency as other realms. Also, lol at you saying people are leaving, Myern has nobles throwing themselves at us. We've doubled in noble population within a week or two.
By the way, would love to see you coordinate three realms without having an OOC teamspeak with everyone on it. Tell me how that goes. I can tell you how it went for CE, Tara, and friends on Atamara against Darka, and that's stalemate until the glaciers intervened. Anyone who's done even a cursory glance at military history can tell you that without a unified command structure, allied armies will often get in each others way more than they do the enemy.
Your entire point has been how you've been outnumbered, but you really haven't. That's my entire point. In theory you are right, but in all practicality I am right. People leaving has nothing to do with Cathay being strong, despite how much that may hurt your ego-stroking. It has everything to do with internal issues, or even lack-thereof from inactivity in realm leaders.
Face it, the realms you faced were never this overwhelming force you claim them to be.
Indirik stole pretty much the words out of my mouth regarding how I feel about this continent.
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History lesson:
Coralynth and Sorraine tried to gangbang OW. Cathay entered the war to defend their ally, a move everyone knew they would make. This would have been a good war if others hadn't gotten involved. Velax's decision to enter the war was what made that war so bad.
The only attacks on Colasan were during the Bofeng era. Since he left no attack has been made on Colasan by anyone.
Some of you may recall that Jonn was initially in Cathay for the purpose of brokering peace between Cathay and Sorraine (what? :o ) and only got directly involved when Claudio betrayed Cathay with the slaughter in Colasan (declaring war on his former ally when their military was already in a level 5 walled region stocked to the gills with troops)
GDD was able to capture Lenamaziel right after because they and Sorraine were able to jump on the region while Cathay's military was destroyed, a huge portion of their nobles were wounded, and then Bofeng quit, leaving Cathay without a leader.
What most of you don't know is that Jonn was so fed up with the war against Sorraine (a war in which he didn't fight at all) that he was going to defect to Coralynth during the tourney in Enlod. I figured if Bofeng wasnt going to listen to me I may as well join the underdogs directly. Then claudio betrayed cathay during the tourney, bofeng quit, and suddenly it was a completely different war. So Jonn left his homeland behind once again and returned to Cathay to do the honorable thing and keep the realm alive.
I hear so much whining about inactives in this thread and it makes me laugh. What you guys seem to forget is that Cathay after Bofeng left was like a dead realm for weeks. No one thought we had any hope of survival. Nobles were leaving left and right. The only active characters were Jonn and Nairii. Our first attack on Lenamaziel failed badly because we got only four nobles to march on time with about three days' notice and constant reminders. It was a suicide attack anyway, hoping to use our better refit times to launch a second attack before GDD and Sorraine could recover, but even that failed.
The point is that we didn't give up. The "roving raiders" you refer to were our best break. We destroyed them despite about half our force being inactive, because instead of whining about how the game has changed I just adapted our strategy to deal with it. Once we beat the GDD raiders it breathed new life into Cathay. Suddenly it looked like we could win, at least battles if not the war, and a lot more people got active.
The point is it is the responsibility of the leaders of each realm to inspire their nobles, and if they fail to do so defeat follows. It's not the map, it's not militia, not player density, not any of that crap. It's a question of quality leadership and strategy. The Nairii/Jonn/Optimus triumvirate has succeeded using the same materials--players and ingame resources-- that Bofeng and your realms failed with. We even succeeded with a lesser amount of those materials.
There's a lot of things I could say here but you guys have been playing long enough that I shouldn't have to teach you how to lead wars. Please feel free to keep making excuses. I am not saying any of this to insult you but I have grown tired of the constant excuse making in BM especially on FEI. The difference in our abilities to take responsibility for our actions is the reason for the differing levels of success of our realms. As leaders you always had the ability to make things better for your realms but you failed to do so. Take it as a lesson.
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Also since Jonn has been running the war for Cathay we have lost only one battle, that being the aforementioned failed attack on Lenamaziel when everyone was inactive. Since then we have won every time. If that's not beating you badly I'm curious to hear your definition.
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*manages to stop laughing for a moment* H-hey Indirik, he's trying to give you, of all people, a history lesson.
And I love the condescending tone of his trite speeches regarding "never giving up" and a number of other cliches. It makes for a pretty picture, the way he says it would make it sound like we have been completely inactive sitting on our asses while this has been going on. Unfortunately for that inflated ego of his, we haven't been sitting on our asses. I myself have been directing my efforts to Dwilight, since that is where my attention will probably have more of an effect. And there Indirik and I have definitely helped to make that continent a better place. The implosion of Morek, which has subsequently seen three new realms in active, localized wars, turning around what looked to be a slow death of the continent.
Compare that to FEI, where Arcaea is too closely entwined with the politics, and too close at hand to be ignored, you begin to see a very different situation. Unless Arcaea loses another duchy, they're still the dominant force on the continent, and the other realms have to tiptoe around it to get a good war going.
But we're sorry that simple facts are seen as "excuses" by those who can't be bothered to analyze the situation around them.
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People in different realms interpretted a situation differently? !
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I'm aware that Indirik is a veteran and Taylin has been active since the early days of OW. I am attempting to help distinguish between the bofeng and post-bofeng parts of the war, which indirik's post has all jumbled together.
the breakup of morek was a great move for dwilight, congrats. not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand.
ill stop being condescending when i stop reading lame excuses. deal?
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Can we just drop this? The war is still going on now. Arcaea and Myern are brokering peace, Cathay once again has reason to pursue war with Sorraine given Colasan's defection. We still have things going on! On one hand, no I don't think Sorraine or Myern crumbled because Cathay is winning. On the other, no I don't think the continent has gone to !@#$ just because Arcaea entered into the war.
And i would just like to clarify, I don't know what Nairii did that antagonised all the other realms. She wants Colasan. And she's pissed at Claudio because he lied. Myern was the one who declared war on Cathay. Nairii had no intention on pursuing war until Alexander kept insulting her. So I don't see how Nairii is suddenly the one being 'hostile and provoking everyone'.
But whatever. I keep away from this forum because of OOC debates like this. Never liked it, never will. But I jut had to step in after reading all of this. Now we can all continue playing the game, or debate here like little children. You guys decide. But I'm going with the former option.
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Coralynth and Sorraine tried to gangbang OW.
Correct. We blew it. We waited too long, then Velax declared "No wars until everyone has had a chance to settle into the new diplomacy." Then when we finally tried to get started, Coralynth delayed the start at the last minute for a couple weeks to take some other region. Then when we finally got going, Coralynth botched the diplomacy, and we all botched the attack. This provided Arcaea and PoZ the opportunity to play paladin and jump in.
Cathay entered the war to defend their ally,
Wrong. Cathay entered the war to take Colasan. This was made crystal clear when Cathay, on multiple occasions, offered to exit the war and abandon OW to their fate if only we would let them have Colasan. It wasn't about OW. No one cared about OW. Ever. PoZ, Arcaea, and even GDD were all quite explicit in that they were entering the war due to Coralynth's false/misleading (your choice of interpretation) statements regarding the attack.
If Cathay had come out and said "We are defending our ally", then things may very well have gone different. But the way it went down, Bofeng's chosen approach to the war (including the infamous "I want a new summer palace in Colasan" line) caused a lot of problems for Cathay. Even now, Cathay's reasoning for carrying on with the war has nothing to do with OW. It's all about Colasan. Just like it always was.
a move everyone knew they would make. This would have been a good war if others hadn't gotten involved. Velax's decision to enter the war was what made that war so bad.
Correct on all three. Even as it was with Arcaea in the mix, If GDD stayed out and the south honored their neutrality, would have been OK. Cathay and PoZ could have kept going after Colasan, and the war would have kept on for along time. Arcaea was not using their full might to steamroller everyone. Sorraine was able to go to-to-toe with Arcaea's armies several times, despite the fact that Arcaea was more than twice our size. Both OW and Sorraine were constantly getting looted, and OW and Corlaynth were having fun beating each other up.
That wasn't enough for Claudio, though. He had aspirations. His entrance into the war on the south's side, and letting the south's troops have access to Sorraine's southern lands, would have quickly brought about the end of the war. The only reason that GDD attacked Sorraine was that I couldn't close the Colasan deal fast enough.
Anyway... Following the collapse of Cathay after the infamous Battle of Colasan, the war quickly died down. We got peace in the north, and returned to the south. GDD/Sorraine v. Cathay may have worked. But the war quickly turned into trench warfare between fortified cities. No one liked it, and people started to leave. Once we signed peace with OW, I think that probably 5 or 6 people quickly left Sorraine. And OW has lost 5 or 6, too.
The only attacks on Colasan were during the Bofeng era. Since he left no attack has been made on Colasan by anyone.
Wrong. There were at least two attacks on Colasan after Bofeng left. Apparently you just didn't know about them. I was there on the walls defending the region during the attacks.
Some of you may recall that Jonn was initially in Cathay for the purpose of brokering peace between Cathay and Sorraine (what? :o )
Wait.... Jonn... I vaguely remember some Cathay guy trying to play the grand manipulator. Was this the guy that Taylin basically told to bugger off? There were at least two, if not three, Cathay nobles that contacted Taylin during the course of the war, offering to play spy/traitor, or to try and manipulate the course of the war. There were two that had almost identical names... Jonnn/Jonnny/Johnn or something.
Claudio betrayed Cathay with the slaughter in Colasan (declaring war on his former ally when their military was already in a level 5 walled region stocked to the gills with troops)
Wrong. GDD did not declare war. GDD explicitly forbid Cathay from entering Colasan. Cathay ignored Claudio's warning, and moved in anyway, saying something like "We're at peace, and you're in the way of us getting to our enemy, so we're going to go through Colasan whether you like it or not". When Cathay moved into Colasan, GDD canceled the peace treaty, going to neutrality. Claudio even warned Cathay that he was going to do this several hours in advance. The following battle was a result of Cathay using Aggressive encounter settings while in neutral territory. Pretty much everyone not in Cathay was convinced that Cathay staged the entire attack *on purpose* in order to have justification for declaring war on GDD so they could take Colasan. If this had been true, then it would have been a great maneuver. Seeing as how soon after that Bofeng quit, it appears that the battle was simply a mistake on Cathay's part.
If you had better control of your noble's encounter settings, you could halved waltzed through Colasan and attacked Sorraine, forcing GDD to be the ones to declare the war. Try talking to Tara about it. They've gotten really good at using encounter settings to control whether or not battles happen.
The point is it is the responsibility of the leaders of each realm to inspire their nobles, and if they fail to do so defeat follows.
In some ways, this is true. But it's not just up to the leaders. It is the responsibility of *everyone* in the game keep things going. The leaders may bear a bigger share of it, but it's still up to each and every player to help make with the fun.
It's not the map, it's not militia, not player density, not any of that crap.
They all play a part in the big picture. Maybe you've been successful enough with it in Cathay to halt the bleeding. Maybe you can stabilize at 14 nobles. But the overall state of FEI has gone too far. A war of Arcaea/Cathay/Myern (and probably OW, too) v. Sorraine is as pointless as Sorraine/Myern/GDD/PoZ v. Cathay. Noble count is too disparate to fight open battles, and realms don't have enough land to defend them from enemies. Massed militia in fortified chokepoints, inability to go around, and people get bored and leave.
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Reading these recent posts, it's like the nastier days of the Atamara forums... Hasn't a moderator rolled through here yet? I can't tell the difference between "spirited" and "toxic" (to use the usual buzzword) from the language being used.
Anyway, I just popped in here because I saw new posts and it's a continent I play on... and from what I'm gathering, Arcaea is supposed to either split its parts between everybody else or just sit in the corner and be quiet so everyone else can play? I recognize we're in a position of power (though, let me tell you, it hardly feels like it), but our players need something to do, too. As it is, I think we dragged our feet getting involved in the war at all. (There were [are] solid IC reasons for our reluctance, but in normal circumstances, any other realm would've declared war long ago.)
I know it's an arrogant thing to say, but the real reason "FEI is dying" (which I don't think it is) is the fear of losing. It's been said that when Arcaea enters into the war, it stops the war... well, why? Because our opponents just fold. It's never even tested. There's just an assumption that our participation is a death sentence and therefore the war becomes pointless to continue. What about sticking to your convictions? You might find that your resistance brings you allies. I honestly thought Arcaea was dead in the middle of Claudio's orchestration. If it wasn't for that, we probably wouldn't have allied with Cathay... I worked with them because I raised the call and they answered. That simple.
Which leads me to another point... pissing off Arcaea and then claiming you have to "tip toe" around them to fight a war is an illogical standpoint. What do you expect? I get that it was a move to try alleviating the problem (which I think it actually has done to some extent anyway), but you needed to be prepared to accept and deal with the situation if it didn't work out... not complain about it. At least now there are much clearer allies and enemies and Arcaea isn't at peace with absolutely everybody. (In terms of actual relationships - I don't think our diplomacy reflects this quite yet.) - I feel like I need to elaborate on this point more fully, but I'm not quite finding the right words... I'll try to return to this.
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Wrong. Cathay entered the war to take Colasan. This was made crystal clear when Cathay, on multiple occasions, offered to exit the war and abandon OW to their fate if only we would let them have Colasan. It wasn't about OW. No one cared about OW. Ever. PoZ, Arcaea, and even GDD were all quite explicit in that they were entering the war due to Coralynth's false/misleading (your choice of interpretation) statements regarding the attack.
Actually, Velax did sell part of our support of OW as a promise he'd made to OW that we would protect them. Coralynth's actions made for a catalyst to get the nobility to actually care about keeping the promise. (So you're effectively right, but there's that little extra that was missing.)
If you had better control of your noble's encounter settings, you could halved waltzed through Colasan and attacked Sorraine, forcing GDD to be the ones to declare the war. Try talking to Tara about it. They've gotten really good at using encounter settings to control whether or not battles happen.
I got a good chuckle out of this.
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The only person who's being toxic (and an ass) is GundamMerc.
But you've been an idiot from the start Qyasogk, and can't see anything for what it is.
Thanks buddy. Keep up your fine tradition of insulting your fellow players.
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Jonn never offered to spy on cathay.
Not surprised about Bofeng.
Pretty sure no one ever besieged Colasan while GDD had it. At least not intentionally. Cathay sure didnt.
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Also I dont consider this thread toxic just spirited disagreement. I certainly dont feel offended or desire to offend anyone.
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Jonn never offered to spy on cathay.
Must have been someone else,. Maybe more n's, like Jonnnor Johnnnny or something. Remember anyone like that? Not that it matters...
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There was a rather long-time Johnnny character around, I vaguely recall.
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hi vita <3
im actually more inclined to believe that you just misinterpreted jonn's intent, as taylins letters and your posts here indicate. i/jonn never tried to play the grand manipulator, never had any ulterior motives, and never offered to spy on cathay. jonn was simply in cathay to try to convince bofeng to make peace because at that point sorraine looked done and coralynth was going to be next.
corresponding with taylin was like talking to a crazy person with delusions of persecution. whole lot of wild and inaccurate assumptions and insults.
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Yeah, talking to people from other realms you haven't had a long history with can be like that. People's individual experiences are so different, you wonder if your even talking about the fame thing sometimes.
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agreed.
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Good job ruining it whoever was involved in electing the ruler of Arcaea. Far East is dead now.
I haven't read this thread in a while so I'm a little behind on what people are saying but.... seriously? My 90 year old character who has been in Arcaea since she was 17, has been a ruler and duchess among other things was supposed to vote for a guy who was going to transform Arcaea from the most powerful realm on the island into a single stronghold afterthought? How does that even begin to make any kind of IC sense at all? Dentara was ruler when Arcaea was only Remton and Saex, there is no way in hell she was going to vote for someone who would bring that back and worse.