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BattleMaster => Locals => Atamara => Topic started by: Moto_o on November 18, 2015, 05:03:44 PM

Title: Darka's return?
Post by: Moto_o on November 18, 2015, 05:03:44 PM
I hear my buddy CElion is no longer ruler of the empires litter box. Did the darkans finally take control of Talerium?
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on November 18, 2015, 05:59:56 PM
This is probably one of the most confusing sentences I've heard in a while.

But I can assure you, while the Darkan-originating Taleri get a fair and equal say in Talerium, if they had the only say, we might be banging on the CE's back door.

As it stands now, it's just natural diplomacy based upon how Strombran's actions have appeared to other realms and the CE's somewhat unfortunate burden of supporting them.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Moto_o on November 18, 2015, 06:46:36 PM
When I was on IRC I called the player of the Tezokian family CElion "Ecthelion". While Talerium is a desert realm above the empire, hence the litter box.

All atamara jokes.

I heard atamara has finally decided to get things rolling for now and Tara\CE are finally coming to blows. Aldarion isn't ruler any more so I thought the darkans finally had enough of the unshakable aliance between CE and Talerium.

To bad the Motosuwas are missing out on the fun. But my money is on the alliance falling back into place after a few months or right before stormbrans destruction.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on November 18, 2015, 06:56:38 PM
When I was on IRC I called the player of the Tezokian family CElion "Ecthelion". While Talerium is a desert realm above the empire, hence the litter box.

All atamara jokes.

I heard atamara has finally decided to get things rolling for now and Tara\CE are finally coming to blows. Aldarion isn't ruler any more so I thought the darkans finally had enough of the unshakable aliance between CE and Talerium.

To bad the Motosuwas are missing out on the fun. But my money is on the alliance falling back into place after a few months or right before stormbrans destruction.

If Jean Luc stays in the Prime Minister's position, you can bet your ass on it.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on November 18, 2015, 07:22:12 PM
I don't think so actually. Tara and CE have found a strong reason to fight now and the longer this continues, the deeper the dislike will become. Diplomacy on Atamara has changed dramatically these last few months, curious to see where it'll end.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on November 19, 2015, 04:48:51 AM
I don't think so actually. Tara and CE have found a strong reason to fight now and the longer this continues, the deeper the dislike will become. Diplomacy on Atamara has changed dramatically these last few months, curious to see where it'll end.

Have you been in the same CE I've been in lately?
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GoldPanda on November 19, 2015, 10:36:33 AM
If Jean Luc stays in the Prime Minister's position, you can bet your ass on it.

That's assuming that moto didn't already lose his ass in a poker game years ago.  :o

Also, moto please come back the Empire needs you. XOXO  ;D
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on November 19, 2015, 11:10:51 AM
Have you been in the same CE I've been in lately?

No, I've been in Caergoth, Talerium and Shadowhaven. But what I said is what usually happens, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on November 19, 2015, 04:47:46 PM
When I was on IRC I called the player of the Tezokian family CElion "Ecthelion". While Talerium is a desert realm above the empire, hence the litter box.

All atamara jokes.

I heard atamara has finally decided to get things rolling for now and Tara\CE are finally coming to blows. Aldarion isn't ruler any more so I thought the darkans finally had enough of the unshakable aliance between CE and Talerium.

To bad the Motosuwas are missing out on the fun. But my money is on the alliance falling back into place after a few months or right before stormbrans destruction.

Ohhhhh, okay. Yeah, actually, I'm Captain of the ship now. (Pun totally intended... if you don't get it, well, sorry.)

Yeah, diplomacy has changed quite a lot and yet not at all in some regard... We'll see how this all shakes out, provided the island doesn't sink before it does.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: jaune on November 19, 2015, 06:48:35 PM
Darka's return were discussed some time ago.

Hawthorne going with that Shadowhaven thing kind of makes it  a bit moot. If Darka would start now it would be only Azzal & Massilion and not sure how many nobles would join... Even thought Talerium is a bit boring situation atm. Darkans have been taken as full Talerium members and we have enjoyed our stay... althought war would taste good :P

-Jaune
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Indirik on November 19, 2015, 07:01:22 PM
So... Attack someone. Stop accepting being bored. Make an unreasonable demand. Take insult at an innocuous phrase. Do SOMETHING to make waves. We as players are responsible for our own fun. Start making things fun.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on November 19, 2015, 08:39:45 PM
Working on it, but the rest of the continent likes being involved in the same war at the same time. :(
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on November 19, 2015, 09:05:27 PM
Darka's return were discussed some time ago.

Hawthorne going with that Shadowhaven thing kind of makes it  a bit moot. If Darka would start now it would be only Azzal & Massilion and not sure how many nobles would join... Even thought Talerium is a bit boring situation atm. Darkans have been taken as full Talerium members and we have enjoyed our stay... althought war would taste good :P

-Jaune

Trust me, I, and plenty of others, would welcome a return of Darka.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: jaune on November 20, 2015, 07:11:11 AM
Well, i dont remember too many successfull realm returns... now that i think of only AA has lasted for a while for those realms which have re-born?

If Darka returns one day, it need to start strong, i'm afraid it would become punch bag easily at Atamara.

-Jaune
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on November 20, 2015, 07:49:45 AM
Well, if we let this war go on a while, it should break things up some and make room for something like a new Darka...

Personally, I'd love to establish a new BoM (conceptually the same, not reviving the heritage) that can pull off good raids... but the island is probably too small to get away with it for any amount of time.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on November 20, 2015, 09:27:11 AM
Well, if we let this war go on a while, it should break things up some and make room for something like a new Darka...

Personally, I'd love to establish a new BoM (conceptually the same, not reviving the heritage) that can pull off good raids... but the island is probably too small to get away with it for any amount of time.

This is the attitude that makes things NOT happen. People keep waiting for things to happen, leading to the large powers sorting things out and consolidating in such a way that prevents any factions from seceding successfully.

In fact now would be the perfect time to secede. All of the realms are too busy to pay attention to anything going on in the north, and I wouldn't be surprised if much of Talerium's noble population is sympathetic to a renewed Darka.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on November 20, 2015, 07:38:04 PM
Actually, not always. Thanks for the generalization, though. If anything, I'd say the problem is more the group mentality and the Atamaran tradition of ganging up on a few realms.

What you clearly don't understand is that this war can easily be over in a heartbeat. Right now, the war in the "South" (let's be honest, the "North" is now what was once mid-continent) is fairly well balanced. If Talerium joins Tara (the obvious choice), the CE and Strombran's only logical choice is to surrender. War ends, the League reforms, likely with Tara taking top seat, and looks for a new enemy, which they find in Darka. It's the same result if Darka breaks off now - they will obviously attack the CE, so the CE will surrender to Tara and crew.

However, if the war goes on (which is still stacked against Strombran / CE a bit), tensions rise and Tara pulls farther apart from the CE.

Darka is still symbolic. The big reason the League is fighting itself is the lack of other viable candidates. Give them one now and I assure you, they will take advantage of it.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on November 20, 2015, 08:48:05 PM
Actually, not always. Thanks for the generalization, though. If anything, I'd say the problem is more the group mentality and the Atamaran tradition of ganging up on a few realms.

What you clearly don't understand is that this war can easily be over in a heartbeat. Right now, the war in the "South" (let's be honest, the "North" is now what was once mid-continent) is fairly well balanced. If Talerium joins Tara (the obvious choice), the CE and Strombran's only logical choice is to surrender. War ends, the League reforms, likely with Tara taking top seat, and looks for a new enemy, which they find in Darka. It's the same result if Darka breaks off now - they will obviously attack the CE, so the CE will surrender to Tara and crew.

However, if the war goes on (which is still stacked against Strombran / CE a bit), tensions rise and Tara pulls farther apart from the CE.

Darka is still symbolic. The big reason the League is fighting itself is the lack of other viable candidates. Give them one now and I assure you, they will take advantage of it.

Where did I say always? You're the one making a generalization about my statement that isn't even there. Please reread, I in no way stated that this is always the case, but that it is the case much of the time.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on November 20, 2015, 09:39:30 PM
Where did I say always? You're the one making a generalization about my statement that isn't even there. Please reread, I in no way stated that this is always the case, but that it is the case much of the time.

This is the attitude that makes things NOT happen.

That's an absolute. If you didn't mean it so, fine. Thanks for the clarification.

I would be interested to hear what you think of my suggestion that an immediate surrender situation would sabotage an effort to rebuild Darka, though. Or if you completely disagree, that's cool, too. I think we've got a good war going on, but Talerium's in a complicated situation. If this helps generate an idea that is fun for the continent and makes sense, I'm all for checking it out.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Indirik on November 20, 2015, 10:15:08 PM
Could be interesting if Talerium attacks, Tara leaves the war in the south to go after the New Darka, leaving Strombran to face the south alone. Would even the odds against Strombran. Not sure how Darkalerium would fare against CE and Tara. I doubt Rieleston would help them against the Empire. ::)
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Medron Pryde on December 06, 2015, 11:30:08 PM
Wouldn't have happened.

My OOC goal was to break most of the realms into 1 or 2 city nations either by encouraging secessions or by just smashing them until something broke and then walking away to find the next target.

I never sought the destruction of any realm.

Heck, I was "this close" to announcing that I would be giving a certain city to Minas Leon in order to force a breakup in Tara.  My final goal was to see three Taran realms.  One centered on Foda, one on Aja, and one on Tucha or Shanandoah.  I and the duke of Shanandoah actually talked about it, in full IC.  And he is not the only duke I talked to about secessions from their parent realms.  NEVER to join Tara.  I didn't want Tara any more powerful than we were.  That is why I was so quick to ally Tara with Wayburg.  That secession was a total surprise to me, but it was the kind of thing I'd been working towards for a year.  Breaking up all the powerful realms so we could get some wars going on again.

The alliances, the federation, the big realms, they were all too limiting.  They all had to go, and I never would have supported wiping out any nation simply because it dared to secede from an ally.  A new Darka would have tickled my funny bone.

But yeah...I've been playing cards REAL close to my chest for a year now.  These comments on this forum are the closest I've come to revealing them at all.  Even my closest allies and friends in game never heard all of this.  Just the bits I was hoping they would help with.  Nobody knew the whole picture.  Even I didn't actually.  I just knew things couldn't stay the way they were, so I was banging walls and knocking on doors to see what I could shake loose.  And finding people who were happy to help.

While at the same time doing it all just small enough that I didn't turn Tara into the whole continent's new target number ONE....That was honestly the most delicate part of the entire tap dance...
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on December 06, 2015, 11:53:24 PM
Wouldn't have happened.

My OOC goal was to break most of the realms into 1 or 2 city nations either by encouraging secessions or by just smashing them until something broke and then walking away to find the next target.

I never sought the destruction of any realm.

Heck, I was "this close" to announcing that I would be giving a certain city to Minas Leon in order to force a breakup in Tara.  My final goal was to see three Taran realms.  One centered on Foda, one on Aja, and one on Tucha or Shanandoah.  I and the duke of Shanandoah actually talked about it, in full IC.  And he is not the only duke I talked to about secessions from their parent realms.  NEVER to join Tara.  I didn't want Tara any more powerful than we were.  That is why I was so quick to ally Tara with Wayburg.  That secession was a total surprise to me, but it was the kind of thing I'd been working towards for a year.  Breaking up all the powerful realms so we could get some wars going on again.

The alliances, the federation, the big realms, they were all too limiting.  They all had to go, and I never would have supported wiping out any nation simply because it dared to secede from an ally.  A new Darka would have tickled my funny bone.

But yeah...I've been playing cards REAL close to my chest for a year now.  These comments on this forum are the closest I've come to revealing them at all.  Even my closest allies and friends in game never heard all of this.  Just the bits I was hoping they would help with.  Nobody knew the whole picture.  Even I didn't actually.  I just knew things couldn't stay the way they were, so I was banging walls and knocking on doors to see what I could shake loose.  And finding people who were happy to help.

While at the same time doing it all just small enough that I didn't turn Tara into the whole continent's new target number ONE....That was honestly the most delicate part of the entire tap dance...

What you've done so far is admirable. It's the first time I've found AT to be any kind of enjoyment. Unfortunately, Atamara was stagnating for so long before hand that it is simply too little, too late. I too would have been interested in what would happen on Atamara, but right now there are too few people to play on all the continents.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Medron Pryde on December 07, 2015, 01:01:50 AM
I COULDN'T have done it any faster without making Tara target number one for the continent.

And without other rulers helping and proposing ideas as they did it never would have worked.  I could not have made the changes we did alone.  No way.  No how.

We all worked hard and long to turn Atamara around.

The story I just told was merely MY story of what I did.  And it is a very fragmentary one.  ;)

I most certainly did not "do" this.

We all did.

And I don't agree with the "too little too late" idea.  I know it is easy to say.  And I know many people agree with it.  I simply do not.  In my opinion, we did what we needed to do.  It was obviously too late.  The devs were already determined to sink the island.  But I don't agree on the too little.  We did what needed doing.  And the fractures that we generated to do it promise a far more fractured and interesting Atamara to play in.

And more than that, the rulers of Atamara know how bad things CAN get.  And we all know how hard we fought to mix things up.  If there is any island in Beluaterra less likely to have this problem crop up again it is Atamara.  Because we as a group, the rulers and the advisers and active nobles of just about every nation on the island, worked to break the problem.

I think it is an error to sink Atamara.  It has one of the best maps in the game.  And it has an effective and active player base devoted to a total war that promises to throw the entire continent into a new dark age of successor states to the grand League of the Eagle.

I think it is an error to throw that away and tell all those players they have to go somewhere else now.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: jaune on December 07, 2015, 08:51:19 AM
It was already agreed that Darka were about to being created. Azzal and Massilion would have seceded and form Darka.

Just few hours before announcment about the sinking i had sent message to Talerium Prime Minister if he had discussed yet about it with Tara & Rielston.

Oh wells.. .Let see if Darka will be created somewhere else.

-Jaune
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Moto_o on December 07, 2015, 10:51:17 AM
The Atamaran conspiracy continues.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on December 07, 2015, 11:47:07 AM
I COULDN'T have done it any faster without making Tara target number one for the continent.

And without other rulers helping and proposing ideas as they did it never would have worked.  I could not have made the changes we did alone.  No way.  No how.

We all worked hard and long to turn Atamara around.

The story I just told was merely MY story of what I did.  And it is a very fragmentary one.  ;)

I most certainly did not "do" this.

We all did.


Well you always would've had Caergoth's support in such efforts to the grave and I'm pretty sure Minas Leon would have gladly assisted and Talerium would prob have stayed out. But yeah, that would still have been suicide prob. In the south (Suville/Caergoth) we had been attempting to find solution after solution to create fun for our players, which I think we did as well as possible.

But you're right, without a larger concencus that something had to happen, I'm not sure how far we'd gotten.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Medron Pryde on December 07, 2015, 12:50:08 PM
Unfortunately, I had successfully torpedoed Minas Leon and Taran relations before I had a chance to truly figure out what was going on.  Not returning Shanandoah to Minas Leon right away was probably the biggest mistake I made as Tyrant.  It robbed Tara of a lot of the moral high ground especially when Strombran started pulling their stuff with Caergoth.  And it alienated someone who could have been an ally if I'd been smarter.

And everyone was allied with Cagil or Strombran, so I judged that if I tried to push things right then Tara would have been attacked from the south, west, and north...and the army we could deploy at the time was pretty sucky...

The fact that Tara and Minas Leon got back to friendly relations at all is a bloody surprise to me after what I pulled there.  We were on the way towards mending fences, but that mistake on my part poisoned the well there for a good year.  If there is any single action I took as a Tyrant that I would reverse if I had the chance, that would be the one.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on December 07, 2015, 01:36:42 PM
Unfortunately, I had successfully torpedoed Minas Leon and Taran relations before I had a chance to truly figure out what was going on.  Not returning Shanandoah to Minas Leon right away was probably the biggest mistake I made as Tyrant.  It robbed Tara of a lot of the moral high ground especially when Strombran started pulling their stuff with Caergoth.  And it alienated someone who could have been an ally if I'd been smarter.

And everyone was allied with Cagil or Strombran, so I judged that if I tried to push things right then Tara would have been attacked from the south, west, and north...and the army we could deploy at the time was pretty sucky...

The fact that Tara and Minas Leon got back to friendly relations at all is a bloody surprise to me after what I pulled there.  We were on the way towards mending fences, but that mistake on my part poisoned the well there for a good year.  If there is any single action I took as a Tyrant that I would reverse if I had the chance, that would be the one.

Yeah you noticed that a bit late, hence my efforts to reconcile the two of you. Although CE really helped also with their 'let's turn ML into a toy' attitude.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Ossan on December 07, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
Jena Luc's war declaration letter was bloody embarrassing to read.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Indirik on December 07, 2015, 04:21:05 PM
It was hilarious, awesome, and depressing all at the same time.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Medron Pryde on December 07, 2015, 04:23:07 PM
Yup...

That was the error that Cagil made that turned Minas Leon favorable towards toward Tara.  That and some of my messages and notes that I was looking to find a way to return Shanandoah to Minas Leon.  But as he said talk is easy and actions are hard.

And we aren't going to get a chance to see what happens there now.  But one way or another, whether through secession from Tara or as a gift to Minas Leon, I was pretty much decided that that city would leave Tara in the future.  Just didn't know how...;)

I actually had very few hard plans.  I had a basic idea I wanted to see but I didn't trust anybody enough to tell them what it was because I didn't know who would betray me.  And Tara was too weak to survive something like that.

So I took the dual strategies of breaking up other alliances while sending Taran troops into Minas Leon as practice.  Maneuver lessons.  Warfare training.  Not that I ever said that at the time.  It would have been an insult even worse than what I'd already given Minas Leon.  But Tara needed the practice.  We could barely field a 6k army when I became Tyrant.  So I practiced the army and then we...well...

The last year has been a wild ride...:)
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on December 07, 2015, 05:17:27 PM
Yup...

That was the error that Cagil made that turned Minas Leon favorable towards toward Tara.  That and some of my messages and notes that I was looking to find a way to return Shanandoah to Minas Leon.  But as he said talk is easy and actions are hard.

And we aren't going to get a chance to see what happens there now.  But one way or another, whether through secession from Tara or as a gift to Minas Leon, I was pretty much decided that that city would leave Tara in the future.  Just didn't know how...;)

I actually had very few hard plans.  I had a basic idea I wanted to see but I didn't trust anybody enough to tell them what it was because I didn't know who would betray me.  And Tara was too weak to survive something like that.

So I took the dual strategies of breaking up other alliances while sending Taran troops into Minas Leon as practice.  Maneuver lessons.  Warfare training.  Not that I ever said that at the time.  It would have been an insult even worse than what I'd already given Minas Leon.  But Tara needed the practice.  We could barely field a 6k army when I became Tyrant.  So I practiced the army and then we...well...

The last year has been a wild ride...:)

Not so sure about error from a player's perspective I think they did it on purpose. But IG that was a grave error yeah.

And pff, even Caergoth had a bigger army than that. I was very surprised to see how weak CE's army had become though...
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on December 07, 2015, 08:28:22 PM
Not so sure about error from a player's perspective I think they did it on purpose. But IG that was a grave error yeah.

And pff, even Caergoth had a bigger army than that. I was very surprised to see how weak CE's army had become though...

It was an IC decision for an OOC problem (not having war) that I and several others had a HUGE problem with.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on December 07, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
It was an IC decision for an OOC problem (not having war) that I and several others had a HUGE problem with.

It wasn't part of a bigger plan to alienate Minas Leon (and with it prob Rieleston) from CE, preparing for strife?
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on December 08, 2015, 04:04:59 AM
It was already agreed that Darka were about to being created. Azzal and Massilion would have seceded and form Darka.

Just few hours before announcment about the sinking i had sent message to Talerium Prime Minister if he had discussed yet about it with Tara & Rielston.

Oh wells.. .Let see if Darka will be created somewhere else.

-Jaune

For the record, I consequently never got around to sending that letter... I figured it no longer mattered. :/
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Fuchs on December 08, 2015, 04:13:49 AM
Will it be recreated in the East Continent? I just joined the only realm at war on the island and I hope the new realms stir up some fun.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: GundamMerc on December 08, 2015, 04:59:12 AM
It wasn't part of a bigger plan to alienate Minas Leon (and with it prob Rieleston) from CE, preparing for strife?

No, but is sure did lead to that.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Gabanus family on December 08, 2015, 06:56:04 PM
No, but is sure did lead to that.

Then I must agree with Medron that it was a very poor move from CE's side. I though it was part of a bigger plan, but apparently not. Then the announcement was CE's biggest mistake yeah.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Medron Pryde on December 08, 2015, 07:06:52 PM
I would judge the three great mistakes we made thusly:

Tara - Keeping Shanandoah

Cagil - Declaring war on Minas Leon

Strombran - Dealing dishonestly with Suville


Each of those three actions greatly weakened the nation that performed them, even if it gave us temporary perceived power...
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Schancke on December 08, 2015, 11:32:53 PM
And pff, even Caergoth had a bigger army than that. I was very surprised to see how weak CE's army had become though...

Well, at the last encounter CE fielded a mobile army of 20k CS.  We (by that I mean General Tharan) made some maneuvers to beat them in the first round - but after the second round we (Tara) were annihilated and CE ha 9 k CS left.

In the latter day Atamara, I wouldn't call that a weak army. They just needed some proper motivation, and a play war with Minas Leon didn't turn them on.
Title: Re: Darka's return?
Post by: Eirikr on December 09, 2015, 03:34:28 AM
Well, at the last encounter CE fielded a mobile army of 20k CS.  We (by that I mean General Tharan) made some maneuvers to beat them in the first round - but after the second round we (Tara) were annihilated and CE ha 9 k CS left.

In the latter day Atamara, I wouldn't call that a weak army. They just needed some proper motivation, and a play war with Minas Leon didn't turn them on.

You have no idea how much I've had to try and convince people this could/would happen. It'd get even bigger if the island wasn't going to be an epic bathtub. Which, in some ways, means it's a good thing this is happening.