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BattleMaster => Locals => Atamara => Topic started by: Moto_o on November 24, 2015, 05:48:54 AM
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If The island does close. It should be due to a massive invasion of white rabbits.
"Any island that sinks should be given an epic event that is unbeatable and forces everyone to flee."
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Mongol rabbits.
Though really if any continent needs sinking it's Dwilight. I like the SMA atmosphere/rules/idea but the continent doesn't work very well.
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Mongol rabbits.
Though really if any continent needs sinking it's Dwilight. I like the SMA atmosphere/rules/idea but the continent doesn't work very well.
How? Please explain this? The continent works fine when the second half is available to play, which it will be when far east and beluaterra are probably sunk. It's working fine now, since we have a bunch of rulers dedicated towards creating conflict rather than trying to win the continent.
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Pseudorandom tidbits of information about the continents mentioned above:
Dwilight has been the most consistently active continent, and seen the most positively by players.
Beluaterra has always been much more active and interesting than its noble count would suggest.
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And EC is Tom's favorite
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Pseudorandom tidbits of information about the continents mentioned above:
Dwilight has been the most consistently active continent, and seen the most positively by players.
Beluaterra has always been much more active and interesting than its noble count would suggest.
Dwilight needs to sink, we have war island back... when it was full it was annoying to play on and when half it had few bright spots. Only bright spot is sea travel since that makes being a pirate more authentic.
EC original contient = Ubent ftw
BT = fun during the invasions
FeI and Colonies ZZZzzz
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How? Please explain this? The continent works fine when the second half is available to play, which it will be when far east and beluaterra are probably sunk. It's working fine now, since we have a bunch of rulers dedicated towards creating conflict rather than trying to win the continent.
Dwilight has been the most consistently active continent, and seen the most positively by players.
I don't believe that. At least not by a majority, especially those who have quit or at least left the island over how awful waging war there can be.
The problem with Dwilight is that the islands are too narrow, so unless you force realms to break up or otherwise conspire OOC to keep them to a certain size you're going to have very long and extremely boring travel times to get anywhere. The north has been a lot more exciting, though I have to be honest that I am quite disappointed with Antiqualia's poor performance. The south is pretty much dead, I haven't head anything from there in ages and the remains of Fissoa seem pretty low pop.
Beluaterra at least has an interesting mechanic to shake things up.
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Well the majority of people who have played Dwilight disagree with you. Besides, the islands are not too narrow. Realms being too large is a problem caused by players, not by the game. We can see this by looking at Atamara, where it took OOC means to break up the gridlock on that continent, even though it is much MUCH larger and wider than either island on Dwilight.
Besides that, I've been on Dwilight for a long time. Do you want to know why most of the people left? It wasn't the travel times. It was the fact that the western half was overrun with monsters. Travel times had nothing to do with it. In fact the size of Dwilight as a whole was a large draw, as it meant that one realm or alliance of realms couldn't control the whole of the continent as we've seen happen to Atamara and Far East. Even when the Astrum/Corsanctum/Morek Empire Triple Alliance was still a thing, the west was largely able to determine their own fate, with realms like Asylon and Niselur (and sometimes even the Farronite Republic) actively fighting a war with Astrum without having to worry about being teamed up on by the Morek Empire and Corsanctum. Meanwhile the south west of the continent had their own diplomatic sphere that was largely independent of the rest of the continent. That kind of thing was unique to Dwilight, where independent spheres of influence actually had space to form.
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Well the majority of people who have played Dwilight disagree with you. Besides, the islands are not too narrow. Realms being too large is a problem caused by players, not by the game. We can see this by looking at Atamara, where it took OOC means to break up the gridlock on that continent, even though it is much MUCH larger and wider than either island on Dwilight.
Besides that, I've been on Dwilight for a long time. Do you want to know why most of the people left? It wasn't the travel times. It was the fact that the western half was overrun with monsters. Travel times had nothing to do with it. In fact the size of Dwilight as a whole was a large draw, as it meant that one realm or alliance of realms couldn't control the whole of the continent as we've seen happen to Atamara and Far East. Even when the Astrum/Corsanctum/Morek Empire Triple Alliance was still a thing, the west was largely able to determine their own fate, with realms like Asylon and Niselur (and sometimes even the Farronite Republic) actively fighting a war with Astrum without having to worry about being teamed up on by the Morek Empire and Corsanctum. Meanwhile the south west of the continent had their own diplomatic sphere that was largely independent of the rest of the continent. That kind of thing was unique to Dwilight, where independent spheres of influence actually had space to form.
I can attest. Back when I was still somewhat of a bigshot in Luria, I mostly had little or no idea what happened beyond the Divides. For the longest time, Luria was focused on dominating the southeast pocket of the island, in between waging war amongst themselves. I don't think a Lurian army even went past the Divides until they started tangling with the remnants of the SA block.
I like it that way. Dwilight puts something of a limit on people's ambitions of dominating almost the entire island.
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I never let little things like island size limit my ambitions. I still wanted it all.
And I could have done it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids! >:(
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Well the majority of people who have played Dwilight disagree with you.
The majority being mostly Lurians or have you actually talked with everyone who has played in the last two years, including the dozens who quit the game entirely?
Besides, the islands are not too narrow. Realms being too large is a problem caused by players, not by the game. We can see this by looking at Atamara, where it took OOC means to break up the gridlock on that continent, even though it is much MUCH larger and wider than either island on Dwilight.
Besides that, I've been on Dwilight for a long time. Do you want to know why most of the people left? It wasn't the travel times. It was the fact that the western half was overrun with monsters. Travel times had nothing to do with it. In fact the size of Dwilight as a whole was a large draw, as it meant that one realm or alliance of realms couldn't control the whole of the continent as we've seen happen to Atamara and Far East. Even when the Astrum/Corsanctum/Morek Empire Triple Alliance was still a thing, the west was largely able to determine their own fate, with realms like Asylon and Niselur (and sometimes even the Farronite Republic) actively fighting a war with Astrum without having to worry about being teamed up on by the Morek Empire and Corsanctum. Meanwhile the south west of the continent had their own diplomatic sphere that was largely independent of the rest of the continent. That kind of thing was unique to Dwilight, where independent spheres of influence actually had space to form.
To say that the map design has no effect upon the game and realms that form is just plain silly. It very much directs the flow of troops and some areas can be easier to hold on to multiple cities than others. Not that players can't still deadlock things, but the narrowness of the east island is a major problem. It's also equally silly saying that travel times had nothing to do with it. Travel times were a huge complaint in the war with Luria and definitely, going to or from Morek was basically an all month commitment IRL to get ready, sail there, land, do a few things, fight one maybe two battles and then go back. Swordfell's mountain range makes for a nice divide to separate spheres of influence, but it also means there are few possible realms in the north let along ones for the existing ones to fight with (Morek is basically dead, Antiquallia is... IDK what they're hoping to do, they could have ended the war a month ago and not wound up a 1 province shut in).
I agree that the western half being closed is a major factor (the entire thing was unfortunately badly handled and bungled by both the players and devs), but it's closed and there are no signs of it reopening again anytime soon. I thought it would be clear that I was talking more about the east island since that is the only part that is actually relevant to BM today. The west still had some issues with realms stretching from coast to coast so the only directions they could fight were north or south which greatly limits how many nations you can be at war with.
Morek's break up was largely OOC too, though more a decision by a player who is playing an insane person who doesn't really need in-depth IC reasons to do things. It wouldn't be too hard to reform the Morek Empire either eventually, and then what? You're left with fighting Swordfell (extremely defensive position) or Astrum (only real other target) unless you continually decide OOC to enforce there being smaller realms. It also relies on everyone playing ball with the idea and being in on it, that's not going to happen.
I was .... in Luria,
Then yes of course you enjoyed it, Luria is powerful, rich and and had lots of smaller realms to fight with for ages. It was significantly better off and more enjoyable than most of the realms it was fighting against. There's a reason why it's the largest nation by far and almost the only one that didn't have a lot of players just quit the game completely.
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The majority being mostly Lurians or have you actually talked with everyone who has played in the last two years, including the dozens who quit the game entirely?
To say that the map design has no effect upon the game and realms that form is just plain silly. It very much directs the flow of troops and some areas can be easier to hold on to multiple cities than others. Not that players can't still deadlock things, but the narrowness of the east island is a major problem. It's also equally silly saying that travel times had nothing to do with it. Travel times were a huge complaint in the war with Luria and definitely, going to or from Morek was basically an all month commitment IRL to get ready, sail there, land, do a few things, fight one maybe two battles and then go back. Swordfell's mountain range makes for a nice divide to separate spheres of influence, but it also means there are few possible realms in the north let along ones for the existing ones to fight with (Morek is basically dead, Antiquallia is... IDK what they're hoping to do, they could have ended the war a month ago and not wound up a 1 province shut in).
I agree that the western half being closed is a major factor (the entire thing was unfortunately badly handled and bungled by both the players and devs), but it's closed and there are no signs of it reopening again anytime soon. I thought it would be clear that I was talking more about the east island since that is the only part that is actually relevant to BM today. The west still had some issues with realms stretching from coast to coast so the only directions they could fight were north or south which greatly limits how many nations you can be at war with.
Morek's break up was largely OOC too, though more a decision by a player who is playing an insane person who doesn't really need in-depth IC reasons to do things. It wouldn't be too hard to reform the Morek Empire either eventually, and then what? You're left with fighting Swordfell (extremely defensive position) or Astrum (only real other target) unless you continually decide OOC to enforce there being smaller realms. It also relies on everyone playing ball with the idea and being in on it, that's not going to happen.
Then yes of course you enjoyed it, Luria is powerful, rich and and had lots of smaller realms to fight with for ages. It was significantly better off and more enjoyable than most of the realms it was fighting against. There's a reason why it's the largest nation by far and almost the only one that didn't have a lot of players just quit the game completely.
???
You realize that I've never played a character in Luria, and have played with people in realms from Xinhai and Morek Empire to Farronite Republic and Barca, right? You realize that most of the people who quit were new players who had joined western Dwilight realms and felt they had gotten screwed by the Monster invasion, yes? I witnessed it first hand, it actually made me quit temporarily! As one of the people who quit Dwilight (and the rest of the game) for a short time, I can tell you it wasn't the map or the large realms that hurt it. It was the near-helpless situation that people in the invasion were put in, not because of any player-caused event, but because of NPC rogues that were pretty much unstoppable.
Oh, and if you're having issues with travel times (like Luria Nova and Morek Empire were) that's entirely the fault of the ruler for not declaring war on a local realm.
Dude, I was in Morek for the break-up, and I met the player who initiated the break-up personally using their ruler character, afterwards using steam (found out we were both furries :3). I and two to three other nobles were responsible for the whole thing happening. It was not at all OOC. Indirik, Lapallanch, and I all began protesting the ruler (and General) because they wouldn't stop the war with Luria. After some time doing that, the ruler exiled (not banned) us all. We all laughed this off ICly, and began to prepare for a party in the capital to mock her. After a bit, she gave up, resigned from her position as Grand Mistress, and proceeded to secede from Morek Empire, thus forming Helyg Derwyddon (I've finally memorized the name, took a while). At this point things went crazy. I believe it was Urtagoth (Lapallanch's character) who won the throne, angering the traditionalists (he is playing an insane character after all), who were led by Helm, the General. They proceeded to secede and form Arnor, taking with them the majority of the northern regions. Antiqualia seceded as well, taking with it the Springdale duchy. I at some point among all this joined Helyg Derwyddon, became general, and basically became the power behind the throne, having the ruler declare war on Morek Empire before declaring peace and turning our attention to the south, to take Caiyun from Astrum.
So please, the next time you claim something, have some proof for it.
Oh by the way, the wars versus Astrum on the west island were not north to south, save for Farronite Republic. Asylon and Niselur were both to the west of Astrum.
Also, judging by what's going on with East Island and the glaciers there, I can safely bet that the monsters on the west side are likely to weaken. Even now the spawn rate for the monsters on the west side is no higher than the east side I believe, so really the only thing stopping realms from going to the west are the current conflicts.
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I think I might have been drunker than I thought I was when I wrote that, I'll have a better reply tonight (12+ hours).
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I think you have cause and effect mixed up with Luria.
Luria is not the most fun because it is rich and powerful.
Luria is the most powerful because it has been the most fun and engaging realm to be in for a long sustained period of time. The internal politics and culture created a realm that people enjoyed playing in. That retained nobles and helped ensure that if the military wasn't the strongest, it was at least always competitive. Also, Luria never worried about fighting realms outside its small area. It only ever stuck to its own business so travel times (until recently) have never been an issue.
The concept of Dwilight is that you should stick to your immediate area of influence.
Only now has Luria completely conquered its own sphere, and is now dealing with the pains of being a large realm with limited battles. It also finally has a stable government which promotes a much more unified realm. While this has strengthened the realm it has also started to see noble loss now. we'll see what the end result is eventually.
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I think you have cause and effect mixed up with Luria.
Luria is not the most fun because it is rich and powerful.
Luria is the most powerful because it has been the most fun and engaging realm to be in for a long sustained period of time. The internal politics and culture created a realm that people enjoyed playing in. That retained nobles and helped ensure that if the military wasn't the strongest, it was at least always competitive. Also, Luria never worried about fighting realms outside its small area. It only ever stuck to its own business so travel times (until recently) have never been an issue.
The concept of Dwilight is that you should stick to your immediate area of influence.
Only now has Luria completely conquered its own sphere, and is now dealing with the pains of being a large realm with limited battles. It also finally has a stable government which promotes a much more unified realm. While this has strengthened the realm it has also started to see noble loss now. we'll see what the end result is eventually.
In some ways correct, but in others not so much. Luria has seen some noble loss, but that was from nobles leaving to join the northern realms. I would also point to the fact that Luria has a large number of nobles having more to do with the monster invasion than any inherent superiority. The nobles from the west saw a realm that had large amounts of land and gold. This meant plenty of room for knight and lordships, as well as moving up in the realm because of Luria's reputation as an internally unstable realm.
They didn't go to Morek Empire, which had even more room and gold, plus plenty of open lordships, for several reasons.
1) It's a theocracy of SA, something that the westerners aren't exactly keen on.
2) It's much, MUCH further away than Luria.
3) The leaders of Luria were much more welcoming.
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Luria's lost more nobles recently due to people simply leaving than due to people going to northern realms. Not MANY more, but a few more. And a decent portion of those that did go north did so because they did not find Luria fun to play in or supportive of their goals.
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I think reason number 1 a little understated. :)
As an Asylonian, I didn't want to join Morek because I wasn't keen on their religion: I wanted to join anyone but Morek and Astrum so I could get back to warring them.
Dwilight has been fun since the monster invasion and it looks to me to be about to take yet another turn for the better.
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Different styles appeal to different people. Especially the difference between internal politics, and external military action.
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I enjoyed playing in Niselur, not so much in Luria. There's nothing particularly wrong with Luria it just doesn't have the same sense of adventure.
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Could a moderator please split off the Dwilight discussion and move it to the right subforum? :-\
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Doesn't matter it's over anyway. So they will be sinking Atamara and FEI. I'm a little disappointed its happening so soon, I was hoping we could still shake up Atamara especially since CE is now at war with Tara, but it's no surprise.
RIP my family home though.
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Doesn't matter it's over anyway. So they will be sinking Atamara and FEI. I'm a little disappointed its happening so soon, I was hoping we could still shake up Atamara especially since CE is now at war with Tara, but it's no surprise.
RIP my family home though.
Things might have been different had it not taken so long, but we just have to look ahead. Besides, you could always attempt to recreate an old realm in one of the new realms on East Island or the new one on Dwilight.
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Well the west island of Dwilight is ripe for a bitter fight and colonization attempt, which will require a LOT of gold, coordination and nobles. So most realms should have two of the three covered!
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I can tell you it wasn't the map or the large realms that hurt it. It was the near-helpless situation that people in the invasion were put in, not because of any player-caused event, but because of NPC rogues that were pretty much unstoppable.
QFT. I was pretty pissed off - not so much THAT they overran the whole of the West, but that the Devs gave no heads up about it, and neglected to tell everyone the monsters were literally unstoppable. In Niselur we spent so much of our resources fighting the monsters we had nothing left to try to carve out a realm in the East. Asylon at least guessed correctly and just left with enough resources to make it. Could've been interesting if both Niselur and Asylon had full strength and banded together like we planned. The whole Lurian war might've ended differently. Oh well.
@Ossan:
Antiqualia's performance: Yeah, it has ended up really lacklustre. None of us were really willing to step up and lead after Wouter/Fulco ordered war and then kind of dropped away into inactivity. Pratap Eastwood basically flipped us off and quit as well, so there went the next most senior player. It's a lot harder than one might think to defend regions by sailing around vs marching, and try to TO a region that can instantly replenish militia due to the broken militia mechanic. Goddamn but sailing is expensive with reasonably-sized units. I have to admit I would have taken Arnor's deal at the outset and built up with Cold Spring intact, but Wouter/Fulco D`Este did what he did, and I'm doing the best I can to lead a realm of nice and mostly quiet people who also don't really have time to lead a realm.
Could certainly use some help, or to get obliterated. Either or.
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Yeah I know how hard it can be to find a decent leader in a small realm since it can be quite the time and effort commitment. The option for peace is still there though... it will be better than blowing all your gold on ships.
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Yeah I know how hard it can be to find a decent leader in a small realm since it can be quite the time and effort commitment. The option for peace is still there though... it will be better than blowing all your gold on ships.
Helm refuses to consider peace.
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Refuses peace on the terms Antiqualia wants, maybe. Antiqualia was offered peace at least a few times during the early stages of the war, and even before the war started, and refused.
I'm not saying the terms were the best. Or even that they were acceptable. I don't really know or care. But merely saying that Helm won't agree to peace is more than a bit disingenuous.
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Destroying AQ was never a goal either...
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AQ should join Westfold. I always argued against sending nobles to that one region nonsense and subsequent events have only proven me right.
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Yeah the Westfold is a temptation and bit of an irritation. We cannot join until things settle down a bit, and by then it may or may not be possible to branch off from Gelene to potentially retake Niselur - Don't even know if the Devs intend that to be possible. Shoot, most of us in AQ were originally from Niselur. Of course *most* still only counts for like 3 of us. :P
JDodger: AQ could have worked with enough nobles at the outset. 'Told-you-so' is a rather pointless comment, especially if you merely grumbled to limited numbers of people. I don't remember ever hearing anyone try to talk any of us from going North, so I don't think you should be so smugly satisfied with your prediction. Besides, OOC nay-saying is such crap in a game that requires players to Do something (take risks, make mistakes, piss people off) in order to be interesting.
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It would be good to see Niselur reborn.
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Well, it will be somewhat easier than it is now, but it will still be a difficult undertaking, at least until Dwilight stabilizes with the new density-based rogue policy.