BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Ketchum on December 04, 2015, 01:55:30 AM
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As per topic above, let me start the ball rolling for all players who wishing to migrate and join a new realm in a new island.
Convince me why :)
I have never try SMA atmosphere island before. This is as good chance to try and play on one. How does the SMA environment looks like? From the initial perspection, we need to RolePlay our characters.
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Well you don't have to RP that much more, but it is encouraged. SMA at the very least requires you to try and make sure you always address people properly, don't have any silly names or silly acts or RP about how your noble used to be some sort of half-witted peddler, just keep it a more real. It's serious but certainly not no fun allowed though!
Obviously I'd recommend my own realm, Arnor. We were created when the Morek Empire was split apart in order to create smaller realms that could have some fun wars between them and have been growing well since then. We're well positioned to engage in more wars in the future as well as help launch expeditions to the west. Currently we are at war with Antiquallia, one of the other realms created from Morek, who attacked us without warning and then had their bottoms handed to them. Unfortunately their leader refused to admit defeat and then went largely inactive before they replaced him so they've ended up just sitting behind their walls slowly dying of boredom. Their fate remains to be seen, but it should be over soon and then new fun can begin :D
There's certainly room for new players and ideas in Arnor!
As for the continent in general:
D'Hara is still at war with Luria Nova and has been for IDK how many years now. I don't know how much of that war is really going on though, but D'Hara is a battle hardened realm and remains the second largest in terms of Nobles despite the fall of almost all of their old allies. Definitely also a good choice if you wish to go to the west.
Astrum is fighting against invasions by Luria Nova (who are trying to colonize them, which isn't going to do a lick of good for the island) and their neighbour Helyg Derwyddon. This is partly a religious war as well as a territorial one. Astrum is well positioned for sending expeditions west, and indeed they are the only ones who hold a reclaimed city. They will definitely be a fun realm to join as you will get immediate action and lots of choices for the future.
Swordfell is still remaining neutral, they haven't fought a war in years and I don't really know anything about what their realm is like. That could change though.
Morek Empire is a small realm with only four nobles, I'm not really sure what is going on besides Urtagoth being insane and deciding to declare war on Sanguis Astroism. He was recently severely wounded in a duel though and was replaced as ruler. Indirik can probably give a better overview too, but he seems to be having fun there as well. It remains to be seen if Morek eventually gets gobbled up by a neighbour or has a resurgence.
Madina and Fissoa in the south are desperately short on nobles, like seriously desperate. They simply don't have enough as they took quite the loss being defeated by Luria earlier this year. Madina is especially well suited to colonizing the south of the west island.
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which isn't going to do a lick of good for the island
And what makes you say that two realms, one with a city and one with three cities, is worse than a behemoth with 4 cities?
They simply don't have enough as they took quite the loss being defeated by Luria earlier this year.
A bit of a conclusion jump? The players didn't leave from being defeated by Luria. They left because they refused to do anything afterward and bored themselves to death with inaction. You can't keep expecting the game to entertain you, you have to act yourself. There were opportunities for them to do something, but they intentionally limited what they would consider doing.
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Astrum is fighting against invasions by Luria Nova (who are trying to colonize them, which isn't going to do a lick of good for the island) and their neighbour Helyg Derwyddon. This is partly a religious war as well as a territorial one. Astrum is well positioned for sending expeditions west, and indeed they are the only ones who hold a reclaimed city. They will definitely be a fun realm to join as you will get immediate action and lots of choices for the future.
The fact that you don't think the colony will be good for the island shows how ignorant you are about what the colony is.It isn't going to be a realm of Lurians. It is a realm for the remnants of the Western realms. I can't say more without ruining IC events, but trust me when I say it is going to be independent of Luria.
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Currently we are at war with Antiquallia, one of the other realms created from Morek, who attacked us without warning and then had their bottoms handed to them.
Without warning? I can't believe that. Everyone knew that Antiqualia was going to go to war with Arnor. You owned Cold Spring! Did you think they were just going to roll over and let you keep it? And with the way the two rulers couldn't come to an agreement, it was predestined.
Morek Empire is a small realm with only four nobles, I'm not really sure what is going on besides Urtagoth being insane and deciding to declare war on Sanguis Astroism. He was recently severely wounded in a duel though and was replaced as ruler. Indirik can probably give a better overview too, but he seems to be having fun there as well. It remains to be seen if Morek eventually gets gobbled up by a neighbour or has a resurgence.
We rule! Join us! Yeah Urtagoth was crazy, but we kicked him out. Only way to go is up!
Madina and Fissoa in the south are desperately short on nobles, like seriously desperate. They simply don't have enough as they took quite the loss being defeated by Luria earlier this year. Madina is especially well suited to colonizing the south of the west island.
This is what happens when a realm grows to monster proportions, being so grossly larger than their neighbors. They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.
There are realms available on Dwigliht that have warfare and action. And they changes that are coming within the next couple of weeks will shake everything up even more. There will be LOTS of opportunity for everyone.
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Without warning? I can't believe that. Everyone knew that Antiqualia was going to go to war with Arnor. You owned Cold Spring! Did you think they were just going to roll over and let you keep it? And with the way the two rulers couldn't come to an agreement, it was predestined.
Semantics! Picky semantics :p Of course we all knew it was going to happen, but I think it is justifiable IC to call it that.
This is what happens when a realm grows to monster proportions, being so grossly larger than their neighbors. They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.
Aye, I certainly intend to keep any realms I am in from getting TOO big in the future too. Hopefully the new changes will help with that.
A bit of a conclusion jump? The players didn't leave from being defeated by Luria. They left because they refused to do anything afterward and bored themselves to death with inaction. You can't keep expecting the game to entertain you, you have to act yourself. There were opportunities for them to do something, but they intentionally limited what they would consider doing.
You're reading far too much into a quick summary sentence. I don't think that they all left directly because of it, but they did lose pretty badly and people left afterwards. Being on the complete opposite end of the continent that's all I really know, and I dunno what there was to keep them interested after that anyway. Fissoa doesn't have the greatest location unfortunately.
I highly doubt that having their realm defeated and forced to split in two had zero effect upon the player's decisions afterwards though :p EDIT: But also that feels like a topic for another thread I think.
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I'd recommend joining Helyg Derwyddon, some sweet regions available and a good attitude toward war and conflict
I'd recommend Westfold but we haven't made it yet
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They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.
I really disagree here. The only option they didn't have was to attack Luria (which, even that, I think was time-limited because I hate diplomatic limitations in treaties). Luria's reaction to anything else would've been significantly muted.
Now sure, characters have different IC backgrounds that discourage the likelihood of taking certain actions, but we, as a community of players, also *really* need to get out of the My Guy Syndrome being so strong that you can't even play your character, but sit around twiddling your thumbs. No, you as a player can make changes, they don't have to be life-shattering, so that the game can be an enjoyable experience. And in my view, this is something that rulers and governments should be *more* expected to do than the average knight.
What could Madina or Fissoa done in their local vicinity? All are ideas I know was expressed to various characters of theirs at certain points (yes, even the anti-lurian ones) via IC discussion. Had a civil war between each other. Invaded D'hara (resentment from their diplomatic fallout). Invaded Swordfell (Swordfell was about to invade Madina a short time prior, even). Assisted Luria against Astrum. None of them even had to be very long-term, but could just be *something* to do until something *better* is available. Look at VT and Perdan's ruler-orchestrated war. While I seriously disagree with components of it, the players at least *did* something. They found a way to make a war that didn't see either realm destroyed, kept their players, and attracted more players to a war with a shorter refit time and engaging internal discussion (damn democracies).
But no, the players themselves absolutely refused to consider any action. They could have done something; they refused.
I highly doubt that having their realm defeated and forced to split in two had zero effect upon the player's decisions afterwards though :p
I won't deny that being defeated and losing half your realm is frustrating; I've lost plenty of realms over the years I've played. But for comparison of how lenient the terms were, these are the same realms that wanted to annihilated Luria as a realm entirely. The peace (I negotiated and wrote it with the player of Alastor primarily, who consulted with the fissoan government under Aran) was specifically meant to improve Dwilight, as has nearly every lurian policy. The peace consisted of creating more realms so there can be closer refit wars, extending communication structures to give players more people to talk to and encouraging membership in ruler and new member bulletins, roleplay marriages/tournaments between the realms, a food tribute to luria, and a roleplay term about joint elephant training exercises between the realms. The only effective land difference for Luria? They gained Palm Sea. So valuable...
Sure, might you and I, being on opposite sides of the conflict disagree about the results of that attempted island-improvement due to different IC perspectives, but my point is we have been trying to give players more *opportunity* to drive the game themselves from what existed before. We can't control that they waste the opportunity.
Gundam really is right about the new realm; Lurians have absolutely had tense internal moments between themselves and westerners in the last year or so. Any attempted lurian imperialist expansion has, at least since my character has had an influence in lurian policy, been much much more soft policy than any hard policy 'vassals' you've described elsewhere. It's more of a 'we have same/similar ideals' than 'we are best friends for life!'. Extending communication structures/guilds originally lurian, but non-lurians given equal (Royal Rangers) or near-equal positions (Halls of Luria), but allowing characters to correspond with more people. Joining any of the religions on a continent is one of the best ways for this to occur, as well, but people insist on bringing their modern religious conceptions into their medievally-based character. Luria has (and still does) continuing disagreements with friends. We also realize the benefits of working together. I already know of some people's future plans that will frustrate my future plans. I think we may, despite the formal war and lack of any possible peace deal, be at possibly the friendliest d'haran-lurian relations in a great while.
Aye, I certainly intend to keep any realms I am in from getting TOO big in the future too. Hopefully the new changes will help with that.
I'm really glad to learn that. Arnor concerns me with some things my character has seen from Helm; this is why its good to understand perspectives of characters on the opposite side of the politics. I don't think we'll ever see realms as big as Sirion, Riombara, CE, Tara, Luria etc. again with the new changes. I think the maximum a realm could grow is ~3 cities and that should be exceptional; most realms being 1-2 cities (plus strongholds, townslands etc.).
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The problem with those realms is the massive refit times they will have to deal with in any war. And you really can't expect a realm broken in two to go to civil war with each other just to have something to do. That's a fake and lame war. Plus the fact that any invasion will have to be by ship, which gets expensive.
The southern part of Dwilight is unfortunately very bad geography without the western side of the continent. That big no man's land between Fissoa and Shinnen/Giask really makes it hard for anything interesting. If Irvington was a city it'd be a lot better. But Luria would probably own it.
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My (attempted) unbiased review of realms on Dwilight, from south to north.
Madina: Dead. Easy for a group to achieve an internal coup. Borders roguelands.
Fissoa: Slightly less dead than Madina. Seems to have some active players struggling to attract attention, lately. Between largest realm on island (Luria) and Madina. I think there's some narrative-roleplaying types here.
Luria: Largest realm on island, engaged in long-distance war to colonize a foreign land. Long-time ancient rivalry with D'Hara that ebbs and flows. Recent diaspora of its nobles to new realms. Narrative-roleplaying, politicking, religiosity.
D'Hara: Squeezed between roguelands and east Dwilight. Talkative politicking and narrative-roleplaying types here.
Swordfell: Between Luria and the Former Morek Empire, wealthy, long periods of quiet with spikes of activity, been playing at peace and neutrality between larger spheres of influence since foundation. Politicking and religiosity.
Astrum: Theocracy of SA, quiet, but becoming more invigorated with defending their realm from Luria and Helyg Derwyddon. Religiosity. Close war.
Helyg Derwyddon: Close war on their border, somewhat involved in colonizing Astrum with Luria (some westerners reside in HD). Religiosity (probably least of all the realms I tagged with this).
Morek Empire: The remnants from all the secessions. Been troubled and changing rulers and foreign policy between two 'larger' sides on Dwilight. Few players, but a very active portion of those players, so can be quickly talkative place. Easy for a group to achieve internal coup. Religiosity.
Antiqualia: Close war on border with Arnor, but lack of ability to really do much atm (limited recruits and other resources). Enough players might change that akin to DSS on EC.
Arnor: Trying to bring AQ to peace via war. Seeking to hold itself independent without foreign influence in the north. Expects much war ahead.
Edit: Realize I forgot to mention above that Astrum and Arnor border roguelands as well.
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Vita, You end your statement suggesting big realms such as Luria not existing so large in the future. Does that mean that you think these realms (Luria for instance) will very quickly collapse to a smaller size or just that it will be harder to establish that size in the future?
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Mostly the latter. The former depends somewhat on the players.
Once the changes go into effect, it *will* be harder to maintain them at current sizes, yes. Especially if lords haven't reduced their tax rates. Will they immediately collapse no, but it will hurt. They will not operate at the same efficiency as before. I expect them to decrease in size more as a result from external pressure simultaneous to the internal pressures, or from ambitious dukes striking out on their own.
I expect Riombara to have the hardest time just for sheer lack of lords to actually change the tax rates. Luria and Sirion might navigate the future a bit more smoothly because they don't have as much lordlessness. But both those will be taking regional hits after it goes into effect.
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I find its effects interesting on Dwilight, because this could actually strengthen Luria rather than weaken it depending upon how the players choose to play it. Luria is already structured as an empire. It wouldn't take any effort at all to revert to city state members of an empire rather than a single realm empire.
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Yes, we've some interesting plans for Luria ahead, if we can just finish oppressing the rest of known Dwilight before Doom hits us. ;)
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Yes, we've some interesting plans for Luria ahead, if we can just finish oppressing the rest of known Dwilight before Doom hits us. ;)
Just don't have CE and Tara emigrate to Luria, because then the doom will truly be upon Dwilight
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Wow, I not expecting so many replies. Plenty of choices... Hmmm, I have to consider :)
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dang....Tara or CE joining Luria would be insane. they would be unbeatable i bet.
i am not suggesting that in my realm by the way...
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Antiqualia: Probably best not to join us at the moment unless you are okay with boredom while waiting for sufficient allies and resources to be built up. I'd advocate Medina/Fissoa/D`Hara to help them become strong active realms in opposition to Luria again. I'd caution against joining Arnor or Luria - despite knowing Luria has a good atmosphere - just to avoid stacking the deck for dual empires again. If enough people were to join AQ with an influx of gold, maybe things would be different, but one or two won't make a difference.
Couple other things may not be common knowledge, which I'm sharing OOCly, obviously. Ruler letters have passed back and forth that pretty much guarantee peace as between T(Antiqualia) and Helm(Arnor) is unattainable without a major shift in either of their viewpoints. History/Gist is Antiqualia wants/wanted to have their whole realm solidified without being tied by treaty/contract to assist/help/defend/ally with/non-aggression pact with Arnor. On a practical basis, Everybody knows those realms as neighbours need to war at some point, but it's just more important to Taran (as it was to Fulco) to keep Antiqualia out of agreements it might have to break in the future (in order to DO something in the North). Helm/Arnor always wanted a peace accord of indeterminate, but LONG, duration to protect Arnor's flank while they attack elsewhere. The only way that was going to mesh with Antiqualia from Fulco and Taran's perspective was if Helm/Arnor just GIFTED Cold Spring to Antiqualia as a gesture of friendship and AQ then offered support/etc. as a gesture of friendship in return - not by contractual/treaty obligation. The rift is that AQ/Fulco/Taran never viewed it as reasonable or proper for Helm/Arnor to hold Cold Spring over them - the apparent view by Helm that AQ would just have Cold Spring and then immediately attack Arnor was insulting to us. Since Helm wouldn't just give Cold Spring without a guarantee that we neighbours couldn't war without us breaking a treaty, Fulco ordered war and off we went on that path.
Militia issues made it so there was only one truly interesting battle in the whole war - in Cold Spring just after we attacked and Arnor's army came in to disrupt the takeover. After that, there were too many militia to break in Cold Spring (believe me, we tried), and the sailing made it impossible to quickly respond to TO attempts with sufficient CS.
After Fulco went inactive and then eventually decided to abdicate fully, we had nobody with the time to lead. Hell I don't really have the time to lead, but I did/do what I can. I find it difficult to justify a change to the IC stance of Taran/AQ, as basically any long-term peace accord is totally counter to T's beliefs about war, and AQ-at-large's interest in fighting. Might be justifiable to through a communion with the Bloodstars through Prophet Seoras when he arrives. I have to talk OOCly with the others in the realm to make sure they're not just playing along and having a bad time of it. As much as I like RP-consistency and the conflict it brought in creating the war, I don't want to have Helm/etc.'s refusal to actively try to conquer Springdale keep us bored. Starving out, or dying of boredom is an unattractive prospect, and there's lots of players in Dwilight and on their way to Dwilight who could help with that.
I'm OOCly open to stuff, so if you have ideas, want to do something, etc. feel free to PM me.
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Also don't forget the new realm in Gelene. The idea of building up a nation in the middle of monster territory means a lot of battles and a great adventure to allign the realm to the coast and possibly get support from the existing realms.
Also with the monsters spawning etc, Medina and Fissoa should also become more fun and the Lurian Kingdoms will have some work to do also with lordless regions.
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The north of Dwilight is currently the hotspot of activity and warfare. Astrum, Morek and Swordfell are the old guard, while the others splintered from Morek (and Astrum?) to create more interesting conflict on the island. When the Western half of Dwilight was invaded by monsters, those that immigrated east and didn't ragequit mostly went to Luria (though recently HD as well). Luria and HD are currently involved in making a home for Western refugees out of Astrumite lands. In the recent past Luria won a war fighting against nearly every other realm on the island, in no small part due to the Westerners that took refuge there. The colony is sort of a pay back for services.
Many of the Westerners were part of a realm called Asylon, which before the reduction of the island, was the largest realm on the island and had constant warfare against its neighbors (especially Astrum). Without a doubt HD and the new colony, whenever it gets set up, seem to have the same commitment to conflict. It could be many of the newer northern realms do as well.
When I was in Luria it was very active, but the roleplays there have been entrenched for generations. It seemed to me that people were chosen as Dukes several IRL years before any opening became available. They have an incredible infrastructure for war, but due to their recent successes, need to travel long distances to partake in it.
Religion is a big deal on Dwilight, and used to be bigger back in the day. Most all conflicts happened around religion, with one religion (SA, though it is now splintered) particularly dominating the entire island. I hope with an influx of nobles there is a bigger push to bring this back (I think the two SA factions need to be consolidated).
D'Harans are slimy fish people.
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Magic! People complained when Urtagoth went nuts but look what North is like now. More realms and more activities. This is why you need a madman every now and then :D
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I feel like I need to write an argument for why Luria is worth joining. There has only been a lot of people from other realms making comments on why you shouldn't join so far. So here is an argument FOR joining Luria:
Luria has a very in-depth culture with a focus on making SMA built into the system. Luria has only one law: Feudalism Reigns. You can do anything you want in Luria as long as your liege approves of it and will protect you. If someone has a problem with an action a knight takes, they must first take it up with that knight's lord and NOT the judge. The judge won't hand out punishments unless they are authorized by a noble's liege. (An example: A knight tries to assassinate a Duke of another duchy. That Duke would seek punishment with that knight's lord. If that Lord supports the action, the Duke would have to seek punishment through the Lord's Duke, and if that Duke supports it, then the Duke would have to seek redress only from the Ruler of the realm.) It's all designed to allow maximum interaction between nobles, while fitting perfectly within SMA.
Luria's internal dynamic is one of the most interesting I have ever been apart of. The realm operates as an empire. The ruler of the realm is an "Emperor" and each of the Dukes are "Kings." The Emperor is elected from amongst the Kings, and each King has final power and the ability to make laws within their own kingdom. The realm generally operates through distributed power. While the Emperor has final say on many things, most decisions take place on a more local level. The Kingdoms are allowed to operate as they wish, and the single "Luria" realm is more of a method to allow improved interaction, shared diplomacy, and a unified culture and nationalism.
Some perks of Luria:
Strongest Military
Best infrastructure (You have some of the best recruitment centers on the island and the game, including some very advanced special forces)
Many available lordships. The realm is large, and has a bunch of opportunity for those interested in advancing.
A lot of RP if that interests you. I tend to read multiple RP's on a daily basis within the realm.
Largest realm - This provides the benefit of a very active group of nobles who you can discuss things with and interact with. You don't have to worry about long periods of silence or non-communication.
Engaged in war constantly - Luria by being Dwilight's strongest realm also has many enemies. Luria has been in constant war for a long time and will continue to have engaging battles for anyone who enjoys the warfare aspect of the game.
Guild spread - Luria's guilds have the widest reach out of any on Dwilight. This is in part due to the fact that Luria requires the spread of it's guildhouses as a necessary condition for peace. This allows all nobles of Luria to be able to engage with others around the continent for more communication.
TL&DR: Luria is a vibrant realm with a lot of activity. It boasts the strongest military, with the best infrastructure, and is nearly always at war. You can find RP if that's what you're looking for and there are plenty of opportunities for advancement.
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I thought things moved slowly on Dwilight until I experienced life in Atamara
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I think it is time I also put in my two cents here, and of course I would love for people to join D'Hara as I am the ruler of it. A very structured realm that is the second largest, sits in an interesting position as the roguelands become available once more, or at least in theory. Furthermore RP is rather liked and appreciated here, so you should feel at home if you like that. Consider us a realm of opportunities as it gives the play of underdog trying to win freedom against the Lurians, D'Haran reconquest of the West, D'Haran policy between the other realms, and a rather un religious realm for those who wish to create a faith.
Generally as I have said before I do welcome all who want to play on Dwilight, I would love more activity even if not in D'Hara, though I would like it if you came ;) haha.
What I can say is that Madina needs nobles, a dead realm, Fissoa practically the same, and the new realm will also be interesting. What I will say, and while it may seem biased, it is this, I would discourage anyone from joining Luria, simply on the sole fact that it would be seemingly overpowered to give Luria more nobles. They already have almost twice the men of the second largest, and have been steamrolling realms for ages. Switch things up and join other realms. I know it seems incredibly biased, yet I honestly believe it would be the best to avoid stagnation.
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stuff about AQ
Yeah we kind of knew something obviously had happened activity wise, really unfortunate that things fell apart for AQ there.
Might be justifiable to through a communion with the Bloodstars through Prophet Seoras when he arrives.
Lmao is him being a prophet a joke? Only thing I'd ever appoint him to is court jester.
Also don't forget the new realm in Gelene. The idea of building up a nation in the middle of monster territory means a lot of battles and a great adventure to allign the realm to the coast and possibly get support from the existing realms.
Also with the monsters spawning etc, Medina and Fissoa should also become more fun and the Lurian Kingdoms will have some work to do also with lordless regions.
Gelene makes me sad about the one noble limit for Dwilight, it sounds like it could be seriously fun!
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Gelene makes me sad about the one noble limit for Dwilight, it sounds like it could be seriously fun!
I could not agree more, it sounds like a wonderful place for my Barion, he would love such a place, but oh well.
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I joined Astrum a few months ago based almost solely on the realm ratings in the realm selection page for new characters. It supposed had high glory and a nice (or so I thought) region/noble ratio. Having been there for this time, I have no idea how they could possibly have held so many regions before. A ruler that seems more inactive than not, a general that lost a series of battle and subsequently autopaused, and poor movement rates in the army. It seems rather difficult to accomplish anything considering Luria and Helyg are beating down the doors.
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I joined Astrum a few months ago based almost solely on the realm ratings in the realm selection page for new characters. It supposed had high glory and a nice (or so I thought) region/noble ratio. Having been there for this time, I have no idea how they could possibly have held so many regions before. A ruler that seems more inactive than not, a general that lost a series of battle and subsequently autopaused, and poor movement rates in the army. It seems rather difficult to accomplish anything considering Luria and Helyg are beating down the doors.
It's because they were surrounded by friendly states for a long time. I believe they used to be even bigger before western dwi shut down, but their player base was probably bigger and more active at that time.
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I joined Astrum a few months ago based almost solely on the realm ratings in the realm selection page for new characters. It supposed had high glory and a nice (or so I thought) region/noble ratio. Having been there for this time, I have no idea how they could possibly have held so many regions before. A ruler that seems more inactive than not, a general that lost a series of battle and subsequently autopaused, and poor movement rates in the army. It seems rather difficult to accomplish anything considering Luria and Helyg are beating down the doors.
Well it would be only Luria if Astrum's ruler had come to his senses during the peace talks with Helyg Derwyddon. This is a war born of Astrum's own stubbornness. Especially now that they will soon have a chance to reclaim some of the West.
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Moreso than you realize. Astrum could've made peace (there were numerous attempts by both sides at various points) with Luria well before they became the last (not counting D'Hara) realm standing against us and Westfold still wasn't formed. Astrum never really acquired the disgust (except what may have existed amongst Westerners due to the Asylonite-Astrumite wars) from Lurian haughtiness that other realms garnered in the war.
The only reason Astrum entered the war was to support Morek Empire supporting D'Hara. Then ME's ruler that asked for the support seceded to form HD, followed by the rest of ME seceding, leaving Astrum holding the bag after Fissoa had been brought to peace and D'Hara was being ignored on their island fortress.
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D'Hara was being ignored on their island fortress.
What, Luria not up for another mass genocide? Sounds like they had a lot of fun the last time they did that.
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The difference is in *who* is being genocided. Luria genocided a population of D'Harans, yes. They're not so intent on genociding themselves against D'Haran walls.
Anyway, fwiw, the policy against Port Nebel (starvation) is now seen as sinful and evil within Luria (there's some holdouts still, but not amongst lurian royalty) and antithetical to the bloodstars. That came from seeing how that style of warfare affected the playerbase within Luria at the time. By and large, it was not a fun experience for lurian players.
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Neat-o, I suspect that a number of people who participated in it probably aren't around anymore anyway.
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Well it would be only Luria if Astrum's ruler had come to his senses during the peace talks with Helyg Derwyddon. This is a war born of Astrum's own stubbornness. Especially now that they will soon have a chance to reclaim some of the West.
I was part of some of the peace negotiations, and there it actually wasn't objectively Astrum's fault. It was Helyg Derwyddon who suddenly stopped responding to an offer that was very fair and very similar to the HD offer to Astrum. They subsequently ignored their offer, claiming they hadn't received it, and withdrew from the negotiations without much reason.
That being said this is the only negotiation I have been a part of, and I am sure there have been quite a few failed negotiations between all parts involved. I love the intricate intrigue and politics of this Island. People who want to join, you really should, it's awesome.
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Well, aren't you just a bundle of joy.
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I was part of some of the peace negotiations, and there it actually wasn't objectively Astrum's fault. It was Helyg Derwyddon who suddenly stopped responding to an offer that was very fair and very similar to the HD offer to Astrum. They subsequently ignored their offer, claiming they hadn't received it, and withdrew from the negotiations without much reason.
That was kinda my recollection, too. Or pretty close, anyway.
HD: We will offer peace. The terms are A, B, C, and D.
Morek: Sounds good to us.
Astrum: We will go along with A, B, and C. But we would like to modify D so it is like this.
HD: Gah! You obviously don't want peace! We withdraw from these negotiations!
D'Hara: Awww, come one guys! The Lurians are the real enemies. Can't we all just come back to the table and talk?
Crickets: Chirp! Chirp!
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I really disagree here. The only option they didn't have was to attack Luria (which, even that, I think was time-limited because I hate diplomatic limitations in treaties). Luria's reaction to anything else would've been significantly muted.
Attack Luria, and then get their ass kicked again? Somehow, I doubt that was tops on their list of thing to do.
What could Madina or Fissoa done in their local vicinity? All are ideas I know was expressed to various characters of theirs at certain points (yes, even the anti-lurian ones) via IC discussion. Had a civil war between each other. Invaded D'hara (resentment from their diplomatic fallout). Invaded Swordfell (Swordfell was about to invade Madina a short time prior, even). Assisted Luria against Astrum.
A staged/fake civil war, a boring/ineffectual long-distance war, a suicidal attack on Luria, or join with their former enemies to engage in unjustified attacks on their former allies. A veritable buffet of enviable options.
But no, the players themselves absolutely refused to consider any action. They could have done something; they refused.
When all your choices suck, it's kind of hard to choose between them.
The sequence of events that led to this point was not just Luria's fault. The "everyone against Luria" war kind of sucked. It destroyed the north. Everyone up there was deathly bored, only a few people ever participated, and things had decayed to the point where all it took to shatter it was a few pointed questions, and a couple people to stand up and say "we're not gonna march down there". The war caused Luria to embark on a campaign to turn the rest of the island into warring city states. The problem is that as soon as it started to actually work, Luria was so huge in comparison to their neighbors that they became an oppressive force for stagnation simply because they existed. They became just like the Astrum/Morek/Corsanctum alliance, CE/Tara/Strombran federation, post-empire Arcaea, and Sirion. Victims of their own success.
Both sides were so entrenched in the war that neither was willing to give up. Luria demanded total victory, negotiated separately with each enemy realm, with crushing terms like dismantling your realm into city-states, providing lands for Lurian colonies, appointing Lurian-approved leaders, allowing Lurian-based religions, etc. The other realms demanded group negotiations and a return to the pre-war conditions, denying Luria any concessions for the fact that the allied realms started the war, and were completely unable to make any real progress. It was a crappy war all around, only a very few people enjoyed it, but NO ONE wanted to do what it would take to stop it. You can't point a finger at any one person/realm and say "It's your fault". It's a collective guilt.
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My (attempted) unbiased review of realms on Dwilight, from south to north.
Madina: Dead. Easy for a group to achieve an internal coup. Borders roguelands.
Fissoa: Slightly less dead than Madina. Seems to have some active players struggling to attract attention, lately. Between largest realm on island (Luria) and Madina. I think there's some narrative-roleplaying types here.
Luria: Largest realm on island, engaged in long-distance war to colonize a foreign land. Long-time ancient rivalry with D'Hara that ebbs and flows. Recent diaspora of its nobles to new realms. Narrative-roleplaying, politicking, religiosity.
D'Hara: Squeezed between roguelands and east Dwilight. Talkative politicking and narrative-roleplaying types here.
Swordfell: Between Luria and the Former Morek Empire, wealthy, long periods of quiet with spikes of activity, been playing at peace and neutrality between larger spheres of influence since foundation. Politicking and religiosity.
Astrum: Theocracy of SA, quiet, but becoming more invigorated with defending their realm from Luria and Helyg Derwyddon. Religiosity. Close war.
Helyg Derwyddon: Close war on their border, somewhat involved in colonizing Astrum with Luria (some westerners reside in HD). Religiosity (probably least of all the realms I tagged with this).
Morek Empire: The remnants from all the secessions. Been troubled and changing rulers and foreign policy between two 'larger' sides on Dwilight. Few players, but a very active portion of those players, so can be quickly talkative place. Easy for a group to achieve internal coup. Religiosity.
Antiqualia: Close war on border with Arnor, but lack of ability to really do much atm (limited recruits and other resources). Enough players might change that akin to DSS on EC.
Arnor: Trying to bring AQ to peace via war. Seeking to hold itself independent without foreign influence in the north. Expects much war ahead.
Edit: Realize I forgot to mention above that Astrum and Arnor border roguelands as well.
FWIW - I agree with just about all of this. The exception is that Morek is really not religious any more. One of our nobles is an elder of SA, but none of the rest really care.
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I don't think most players really care about religion, and I completely agree with Indirik.
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They became just like the Astrum/Morek/Corsanctum alliance, CE/Tara/Strombran federation, post-empire Arcaea, and Sirion. Victims of their own success.
Yes, in terms of effective war making long-distance, they are victims of their own success. They difference, I think is that Luria knew this going in to a large part and their policies have in many ways planned for it and to discourage anyone suffering it again via city-states with closer refit wars.
Rather than establish themselves in complete control of the island with a few, powerful realms as all the other imperial instances you listed did, they purposely made many, smaller realms. It's much much harder to keep a large number of smaller realms with more people involved in each government in line with an alliance policy than it is to keep a few realms with a small number of leaders in line. The difference I see between Luria and your examples is hard/soft power. Luria's expansion is more cultural, based on guilds and personal relationships, and less about direct control of realm diplomacies and militaries. Those other instances have strong mechanic relations with other realms, limiting game diplomacy. They have military cooperation channels between their member realms (luria does not).
Both sides were so entrenched in the war that neither was willing to give up. Luria demanded total victory, negotiated separately with each enemy realm, with crushing terms like dismantling your realm into city-states, providing lands for Lurian colonies, appointing Lurian-approved leaders, allowing Lurian-based religions, etc. The other realms demanded group negotiations and a return to the pre-war conditions, denying Luria any concessions for the fact that the allied realms started the war, and were completely unable to make any real progress. It was a crappy war all around, only a very few people enjoyed it, but NO ONE wanted to do what it would take to stop it. You can't point a finger at any one person/realm and say "It's your fault". It's a collective guilt.
Yes, both sides contributed to the war not being resolved. That really wasn't what I was replying to, but what happened to those realms after the war was over. Yes, there were difficult choices. But were they really all worse than doing *nothing* and losing players?
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Yes, in terms of effective war making long-distance, they are victims of their own success. They difference, I think is that Luria knew this going in to a large part and their policies have in many ways planned for it and to discourage anyone suffering it again via city-states with closer refit wars.
Rather than establish themselves in complete control of the island with a few, powerful realms as all the other imperial instances you listed did, they purposely made many, smaller realms. It's much much harder to keep a large number of smaller realms with more people involved in each government in line with an alliance policy than it is to keep a few realms with a small number of leaders in line. The difference I see between Luria and your examples is hard/soft power. Luria's expansion is more cultural, based on guilds and personal relationships, and less about direct control of realm diplomacies and militaries.
Yeah, I'm not seeing that. At all.
Luria ruled by very hard power: A huge-ass army, lots of players, and the ability to beat down anyone on an individual basis.
Although your overall city-states plan is a good one in theory, it's the establishment process that sucks. If it were a matter of waving a wand and the entire island were transformed overnight, that would be great. But it's not. It's a long process that drags on for years. And of necessity, you force your neighbors into it first. And you hold onto your own power until last, to make sure that you have the power to enforce the change. That means that everyone near you has a super long wait for that golden age to appear, during which time they really can't do anything. They're locked into waiting. And they die.
That's exactly what happened on FEI while Arcaea marched to establish the empire. All the realms behind them slowly fell to pieces and dried up, waiting for the empire to finally get done. We all knew that if any of us stepped out of line, we'd get torn apart by everyone else. So we all sat and did nothing. By the time the empire was done, the island was dead.
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Luria ruled by very hard power: A huge-ass army, lots of players, and the ability to beat down anyone on an individual basis.
Fair enough, military power is necessary for any projection of force, yes. I still hold that their method of what they do with what is conquered is vastly different than the groups compared to.
Although your overall city-states plan is a good one in theory, it's the establishment process that sucks. If it were a matter of waving a wand and the entire island were transformed overnight, that would be great. But it's not. It's a long process that drags on for years. And of necessity, you force your neighbors into it first. And you hold onto your own power until last, to make sure that you have the power to enforce the change. That means that everyone near you has a super long wait for that golden age to appear, during which time they really can't do anything. They're locked into waiting. And they die.
That's exactly what happened on FEI while Arcaea marched to establish the empire. All the realms behind them slowly fell to pieces and dried up, waiting for the empire to finally get done. We all knew that if any of us stepped out of line, we'd get torn apart by everyone else. So we all sat and did nothing. By the time the empire was done, the island was dead.
Except this is what is uncomparable to Luria. Luria did not say 'do not attack one another' at any point, to any realm defeated or friendly to it. In fact, repeatedly, it has said *attack* one another (another, not excluding lurian-friendly realms and that made clear on at least one occasion) to realms its discussing peace with. It has not had alliances and federations limiting realm diplomacy across the island. It's friends have been allied to realms at war with other of its friends. Other semi-friendly forces are allying with a not-so-friendly realm against a much more-friendly realm. It is not, nor accelerating towards, anything like the other continent's alliance and federation blocks. Luria was not marching to conquer lands to bring them in line with an imperial concept as Arcaea was doing. It did not try to tell realms to not war another under thread of war by all other parties. Luria has been saying 'break into smaller realms and war people closer to you'. Over and over and over. I even got flack from Westfold players who got spooked that our enemies would all break up and they couldn't form Westfold. The most successful lurian international guilds? An advy guild where all nobles share the elder rank equally regardless of realm and a religion that encourages faithful to war one another as a holy thing. Hardly tools of imperial domination like the FEI Phoenix Empire, AT League of the Eagle, or other such groups.
Again, the realms (Madina and Fissoa) *chose* to do nothing. I'm not saying they had a buffet of wonderful choices, but they had more choices than to *do nothing*.
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The most successful lurian international guilds? An advy guild where all nobles share the elder rank equally regardless of realm and a religion that encourages faithful to war one another as a holy thing.
And one I've heard many complaints about some Nobles treating the advies far too nicely and equally in. Though how widespread that is (especially since I am sure many messages are sent privately and stuff can change) I have no idea.
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Yes, some members hold those opinions. Others hold more respectable opinions. It's wide enough that yes, not everyone agrees.
I think currently it stretches through Fissoa, Luria, Swordfell, Helyg, and AQ.
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I would agree with Indirik that while the idea of many warring city states is good in theory, we must also remember that these realms made city states tend to die. Neither Fissoa nor Madina has the nobles to fight anyone. They have 5 and 6 nobles I believe, they can barely fight anywhere due to how few they are. I think while these city states are possibly a decent idea on paper, I do not think it works, least of all when 6 nobles would be banged by just a militia gank that most realms can do, for it to work efficiently they need more nobles, else it is pointless. Not to mention, by subduing everyone you will lose players to being demoralized and broken. A lot of people wouldn't want to play unless they saw they had a chance to grow again.
Not to mention you have written the treaty where Fissoa and Madina cannot rejoin each other, do they know this does not count for conquest or does it? If one were to subdue one another?
A conqueror's bane is that when there is no one else to conquer, they can only conquer themselves. D'Hara and Lurian are stood practically on two sides of a stream, poking each other with sticks occasionally, hardly a war at this point as it is disagreeing neighbours ;D
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And on the other side of the spectrum you have HD and Arnor which are doing well. Even the remains of Morek are still fun with 4 people because they are able to RP well. Arnor would be doing better if not for OOC activity issues and if peace had been made sooner, but oh well. Hopefully we can work something out there.
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The Daughters of Morek is considerably larger though than Fissoa and Madina. If we make the city states too small they simply cannot sustain themselves. If you get too few nobles, the realm simply dies because they cannot do anything. Realistically, optimistically I think we should see an influx of maybe 30-50 new nobles on Dwilight. Hopefully they will be spread out equally amongst the realms. (IMO I hope very few join Luria as they are already quite huge)
Let us just all hope for a new and revitalized Dwlight.
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The hilarity in all this is that all the people who are going "Luria bad, woe is Dwilight" aren't even in a position to see their internal/external politics. They're far more fragmented than they let on to the outside.
So yeah, just a heads up for the future, keep a close watch on Westfold's diplomacy.
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Personally I wouldn't say Luria is bad, just big. They eventually ended up that size because of the wars and whatever. Now with the empire mechanics that would trim the empires something might happen to Luria, which would be a shame, at least to some degree that they fall to game mechanics, though the RP of such an event would be cool, wish I could be part of it.
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Personally I wouldn't say Luria is bad, just big. They eventually ended up that size because of the wars and whatever. Now with the empire mechanics that would trim the empires something might happen to Luria, which would be a shame, at least to some degree that they fall to game mechanics, though the RP of such an event would be cool, wish I could be part of it.
Nah, I can definitively tell you if anything happens, it will be RP that causes it.
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Neither Fissoa nor Madina has the nobles to fight anyone. They have 5 and 6 nobles I believe, they can barely fight anywhere due to how few they are.
Yes, you're looking at numbers now, not immediately after peace. This is the result *of doing nothing*. I bet, if they started something local, they'd attract nobles, even without the influx of characters occurring now.
Not to mention, by subduing everyone you will lose players to being demoralized and broken.
The subjugation you see, isn't there. The players were lost from the leaders sitting on their arses and not leading their players into the next role.
Not to mention you have written the treaty where Fissoa and Madina cannot rejoin each other, do they know this does not count for conquest or does it? If one were to subdue one another?
Well, I don't know what the current leaders and players know, but I did communicate with both the original fissoan government and both immediate successor governments afterward (skyndarbau/alastor).
And now that I actually read the treaty on the in-game interface....there's actually not a single treaty term that prohibits war between them. It merely states the manner of their separation. The future is left open. I posted the treaty elsewhere on the forum just a moment ago.
A conqueror's bane is that when there is no one else to conquer, they can only conquer themselves.
Indeed. Luria has trodden this path before, though usually a bit less willingly.
D'Hara and Lurian are stood practically on two sides of a stream, poking each other with sticks occasionally, hardly a war at this point as it is disagreeing neighbours ;D
Pretty much. We're a rather mild Hatfields and McCoys.
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IMO I hope very few join Luria as they are already quite huge
I think you understate the case when you consider characters departing to Westfold, as well as internal lurian reforms. Luria will probably be hurting the most after they're done. The difference is they'll keep finding something to do, which attracts nobility, instead of sitting around, which repels nobility.
That's the thing I've been trying to convey. It seems to me that many sit around waiting until they 'have enough' nobility to do something. The problem is, it doesn't work like that. If you do that, you lose nobility because there's nothing happening to keep their interest. The best thing to do is to just go do *anything* that engages the players, even if its a risky gamble, and lo and behold, you'll find players trickling, or gushing, into your realms. Wars and just talking to your realmmates (serious planning, silly downtime, narrative roleplays, rebellious conspiracy, power-grabbing geopolitics, anything but another game-generated realm report!) are the best ways. You know this because D'Hara is good at talking to each other and you make the occasional military campaign to keep something in front of your nobles. And not just you. D'Hara has kept one of the better density rates with Swordfell and Luria for *most* of the last couple years on Dwilight. But this is what Madina and Fissoa needed to do, as Arnor, AQ, ME, HD etc. have been doing with success up north and growing.
...aren't even in a position to see their internal/external politics. They're far more fragmented than they let on to the outside.
Hey, hey, hey! Our secrets! :P It doesn't help when D'Harans wander in babysitting the Emperor's adopted children (I tease) and start dueling/killing our uppity Rangers. Twas a good week.
Personally I wouldn't say Luria is bad, just big. They eventually ended up that size because of the wars and whatever. Now with the empire mechanics that would trim the empires something might happen to Luria, which would be a shame, at least to some degree that they fall to game mechanics, though the RP of such an event would be cool, wish I could be part of it.
They ended up that size because that was the extent of their realm previous to the invasions, which was the extent of 3-4 realms before that. Yes, it happened successfully because of the war with an incredibly-close refit and player communication to attract more nobles, but I just want to stress that the lurian borders are also roleplay based. Hence that thorn, Flying Hongrns, with Swordfell.
Luria's been planning to reduce itself when it was done with the foreigners for awhile anyway. It's now being forced to do it a lot faster than the players planned. So we've been setting up background roleplay in some circles here and there for months now with various small preparations and political maneuvers.
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One question though after reading all these.
We cannot create character on Dwilight correct? It has to be migrated from other island. Do this rule still in effect?
A few realms look interesting to me and may appeal to my character who needed to migrate from EC.
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No, you can create a char on Dwilight and always have. Dwilight has just always had the 1-noble, 1 advy active limits.
You might be thinking of BT, which hasn't allowed a new character to be created throughout its history. But that limitation was removed at the beginning of November, so as of now, new character creation should be possible on all islands.
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Thank you, Vita. Almost time to migrate. Putting a closing speech.
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And Helyg Derwyddon is in need of a Banker once again. I swear, we can't keep that position filled at all.
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We have the same situation where the Lord General is a cursed position, those who take it end up removed from the office before time. The last three went like this inactive-captured-inactive, and we are voting on one now xD
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Banker sucks. Worst council position ever.
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Banker sucks. Worst council position ever.
I'm pretty sure it's the only council fame point I'm still missing :)
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Banker sucks. Worst council position ever.
This is funny to me, as I both enjoy the Banker position and consider it to be the second most powerful after Ruler.
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This is funny to me, as I both enjoy the Banker position and consider it to be the second most powerful after Ruler.
A banker can hold a Duke hostage by starving his regions of food.
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He could, but 90% chance he'll get turfed out of his position for that.
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A banker can hold a Duke hostage by starving his regions of food.
and more
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Banker is a really underestimated position. It's a position all about influence. You're one of the most valuable people in the realm if you do the job well. You'll quickly rise in power if you choose to become banker when no one else does, and perform the role like it should be done.
It's like a plumber, everyone disregards or disrespects them until they are literally the most important thing the realm needs. It's by far my favorite council position.
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I didn't say it didn't have power. Or that you couldn't do mean things with it. Or that you couldn't be tricky and use it to earn lots of gold. (At least if you're lucky enough to have surplus food.)
I said it sucks. And I meant exactly that.
It is the last respected council position. It arguably has the biggest responsibility. People rarely appreciate the work you do. If you try any of those tricky things like starving out a margrave of a big region, you're likely to get protested out, unless the margrave is a dick. And even if you have some support in it, which is extremely rare, all it takes is one or two lords supporting him to foil your plan.
And on top of all that, if you're banker in a realm that is chronically low on food, you're in a never ending struggle to find food. And it goes on forever, with no end in sight.
It sucks.
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Banker is a really underestimated position. It's a position all about influence. You're one of the most valuable people in the realm if you do the job well. You'll quickly rise in power if you choose to become banker when no one else does, and perform the role like it should be done.
It's like a plumber, everyone disregards or disrespects them until they are literally the most important thing the realm needs. It's by far my favorite council position.
Meh if I want to rise to power quickly I just rebel!
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Wait for me... I am coming, unless there is pirates at sea to rob my character and throw him overboard the ship ;)
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D'Hara is still at war with Luria Nova and has been for IDK how many years now.
A few months shy of four years, if you were truly wondering.
Luria's internal dynamic is one of the most interesting I have ever been apart of. The realm operates as an empire. The ruler of the realm is an "Emperor" and each of the Dukes are "Kings." The Emperor is elected from amongst the Kings, and each King has final power and the ability to make laws within their own kingdom. The realm generally operates through distributed power. While the Emperor has final say on many things, most decisions take place on a more local level. The Kingdoms are allowed to operate as they wish, and the single "Luria" realm is more of a method to allow improved interaction, shared diplomacy, and a unified culture and nationalism.
Has it not changed much over the years? Yikes, my ego might pop from all this inflation.
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A few months shy of four years, if you were truly wondering.
Has it not changed much over the years? Yikes, my ego might pop from all this inflation.
We love you. Luria's reigning circles (ruler/dukes) have stayed pretty stable. The government council has changed a lot more frequently.
After Arundel, Alice took throne long enough to pass to Seoras. Seoras would've held it, but Jonsu happened to SA and he felt guilty and founded ESA to save it, giving throne to Sholan. I guess recently Sholan stepped down, Aldrakar took it, then disappeared, and Sholan is back on the throne.
Earth: Hrok > Kamron > Zajar
Moon: Alanna > Idesbald
Sky: Alice > Sholan (not sure if it went > Aldrakar > Sholan or not)
Sun: Malus > Seoras > Hendrick > Seoras (maybe > Hendrick > Seoras ) > Ronan > ?
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Bankers geez stop giving them credit, the jobs a cake walk, when we switched from the old system to the new, I just had to convince all of CE to give me access to their food and I just had to feed the realm. Title, privileges and I fed myself cake walk. Those that attempted to oppose me starved! Well not really cause I am a generous fellow, but really I could have starved them... If I wanted I really could have seriously I could... then again we elected Banker's so starving them would have been to much of a hassle. So it did cross my mine once or twice. Should probably of let Tara and Coria starve.
And on top of all that, if you're banker in a realm that is chronically low on food, you're in a never ending struggle to find food. And it goes on forever, with no end in sight.
It sucks.
Indirik come now don't be a banker in a realm that is chronically low on food, that self deprecating. It's like jumping out of a plan without a parachute... it won't end well.
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While you have the game mechanics to starve a realm, no realm would let you get away with it. As soon as you started to do it, c you would get kicked out. Or the lord would feed the region himself. It's real easy to say you'd do it. It's a lot harder to actually do it, and get the support for it.
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While you have the game mechanics to starve a realm, no realm would let you get away with it. As soon as you started to do it, c you would get kicked out. Or the lord would feed the region himself. It's real easy to say you'd do it. It's a lot harder to actually do it, and get the support for it.
It's most useful just before a predicated rebellion or banning of a lord to prevent secession.
Remove all food from their regions, drop a ban from the judge, and remove all militia from the general. You're set up for an easy civil war.
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While you have the game mechanics to starve a realm, no realm would let you get away with it. As soon as you started to do it, c you would get kicked out. Or the lord would feed the region himself. It's real easy to say you'd do it. It's a lot harder to actually do it, and get the support for it.
Starving the realm is sinister really, the best way to do it is to be a Banker and a Duke. Make sure your duchy is fed then pool food to your city/duchy and force the other duchies to align with you or risk being starved. Once that is in motion distract the judge or if the judge is active ignore the threats and the hearsay for as long as you can. If a ban comes quickly change your duchy to a more favorable realm and let the games of strife begin as they suffer and burn. Prefer to switch to a realm that your realm is at war with or on the verge of war with. More impactful also to have high food regions in your duchy who are willing to stay with you.
Once that takes place the realm will starve while you are fed and the outcome will be well starvation and well anger. Hopefully they give you a high bounty and the other realm enjoys the outcome once you join them.
It beats getting a lot of support. All you need is cunning skills and the depth to do so. Plus a good communication with certain lords and other realms.
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Starving the realm is sinister really, the best way to do it is to be a Banker and a Duke. Make sure your duchy is fed then pool food to your city/duchy and force the other duchies to align with you or risk being starved. Once that is in motion distract the judge or if the judge is active ignore the threats and the hearsay for as long as you can. If a ban comes quickly change your duchy to a more favorable realm and let the games of strife begin as they suffer and burn. Prefer to switch to a realm that your realm is at war with or on the verge of war with. More impactful also to have high food regions in your duchy who are willing to stay with you.
Once that takes place the realm will starve while you are fed and the outcome will be well starvation and well anger. Hopefully they give you a high bounty and the other realm enjoys the outcome once you join them.
It beats getting a lot of support. All you need is cunning skills and the depth to do so. Plus a good communication with certain lords and other realms.
This. People don't take advantage of all of the opportunities available to them to mix things up if they want. There is always something to do, regardless of the situation.
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It's also easy to lock the banker out of your regions...
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It's also easy to lock the banker out of your regions...
True, but if he's good and quick you'll be too late for that. Food can be moved within matter of an hour.
There are also other tricks you could pull as a banker. Say you need money to ship food and send some of it to your family every time, or keep it but claim you need new funds again. Unless you do it extremely foolishly, people won't catch you really. You could also transfer food to your own region and subsequently sell them for much more if your realm is producing a surplus etc.
But the 'starvation' as a pressure point won't work so well, since they'll chase you out. But you can use it to gain a lot of gold, or as some sort of end-game kind of style as described above. In fact, if you have 2 or 3 bankers cooperating together towards such a goal, you'll get complete chaos in a large area, giving power to those boys. Now that I think of it, maybe I should become banker one day :p
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Getting back on topic, I would suggest any of the former Morek realms, or Morek Empire itself.
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New benefits to joining Astrum:
1. High ranking positions opening up.
2. Aims to expand into the western wilderness.
3. Plenty of potential enemies and conflicts.
4. I'm there and I'm fantastic.
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New benefits to joining Astrum:
1. High ranking positions opening up.
2. Aims to expand into the western wilderness.
3. Plenty of potential enemies and conflicts.
4. I'm there and I'm fantastic.
Prerequisites to joining Astrum: Large egos :P
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Go big or go home.
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That #4 is a huge demerit I think.
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That #4 is a huge demerit I think.
If he manages to come with the list with the plus on, that is a merit ::)
Anymore realms wishing to promote their realm are welcome here.
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Anyone promote Fissoa yet? We could seriously use some new blood.
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Helyg Derwyddon is currently at war with Morek Empire and Arnor. We're expecting a lot of action from angry angry Arnors.
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Arnor is now the Angry Ar Agyrian Army of Dwilight?
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Basically yes.
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Down the road westgard should be fun. Hopfully it will turn into a militaristic realm once the burocrats have been removed.
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Helyg Derwyddon is currently at war with Morek Empire and Arnor. We're expecting a lot of action from angry angry Arnors.
Why would we be Angry? AQ was a limp biscuit.
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Arnor, Swordfell, Morek, Astrum, DHara = SA
LN, HD = ESA
So far. Now I am heading to Madina to see what that realm is like. Maybe I will drop by in Fissoa.
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I'll tell you which realm isn't interesting: Swordfell.
Jeesh, you don't need to be allied with everyone you know.
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Well, they are your next target. They have to defend themselves.
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I'd expect them to ally with Morek Empire. But D'Hara? even if D'Hara were to be at war with us, they'd hardly be in a position to provide any support. Not only are they still at war with Luria Nova, but they're on the wrong side of the sea.
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Arnor, Swordfell, Morek, Astrum, DHara = SA
LN, HD = ESA
So far. Now I am heading to Madina to see what that realm is like. Maybe I will drop by in Fissoa.
Arnor doesn't follow a specific religion. They have some ESA temples. Morek has ESA temples in a few regions as well.
Antiqualia is an ESA realm as well.
I'd expect them to ally with Morek Empire. But D'Hara? even if D'Hara were to be at war with us, they'd hardly be in a position to provide any support. Not only are they still at war with Luria Nova, but they're on the wrong side of the sea.
Considering that HD has ties with Luria and that Swordfell is going to be fighting HD it makes sense to have a back up friend in D'hara
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Arnor, Swordfell, Morek, Astrum, DHara = SA
LN, HD = ESA
So far. Now I am heading to Madina to see what that realm is like. Maybe I will drop by in Fissoa.
Not entirely true anymore these days. ESA is infiltrating the ranks everywhere due to the holy prophet :p
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ESA has a prophet? My character joined to oppose the influence of SA.
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Seoras has been, gradually, being recognized as Prophet by ESA, though he himself has never made such a statement. That was one of his points against Jonsu and Alaster was that a true Prophet didn't announce themselves vainly, but were recognized by other characters similar to how I recall being told Mathurin was voted at beginning of Morek and 'acclaimed' so to speak.
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Mathurin did volunteer to lead. ;)
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Arnor, Swordfell, Morek, Astrum, DHara = SA
LN, HD = ESA
So far. Now I am heading to Madina to see what that realm is like. Maybe I will drop by in Fissoa.
Not true, at least as for D'Hara. There are several different faiths in D'Hara SA, ESA and Verdis Elementum all being represented equally, while the faiths have no say politically in the realm as it is considered a religious freehold.
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ESA has temples or noble believers in Arnor, Morek Empire, Antiqualia, Helyg Derwyddon, Astrum, Westfold, Swordfell, D'Hara, Luria, and Fissoa. *looks at Madina all by itself...*
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A new option for players joining the server is the small realm of Westfold. Located on the East continent its founding membership is made up of exiles from the West continents experience with the overwhelming rogue monster invasion.
It's taken us a while to achieve a realm of our own in the east and, yes, it's ironic that we do so just as the West becomes somewhat open to players, but such is fate and the game.
If you're looking for opportunities in a realm with a culture that is not yet solidified in concrete and one that hopes to not be based on foppish effete feudal styles, but will be a bit more robust and perhaps more early dark ages than almost Renaissance in outlook, then please consider joining Westfold.
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Oh I wouldn't worry too much, you'll probably be destroyed sooner or later.
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Oh I wouldn't worry too much, you'll probably be destroyed sooner or later.
I will then laugh as Arnor and Morek depopulate from boredom after they have destroyed all competition. Have fun with that. Morek Empire 2.0 is a go.
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I will then laugh as Arnor and Morek depopulate from boredom after they have destroyed all competition. Have fun with that. Morek Empire 2.0 is a go.
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQKzesTq0Wo
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Out of curiosity, how many of your current nobles actually were members of western realms that were destroyed by there monster advance? Not returning players with new accounts, or new characters on accounts that used to have players there. Just actual characters that used to play in western realms?
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Out of curiosity, how many of your current nobles actually were members of western realms that were destroyed by there monster advance? Not returning players with new accounts, or new characters on accounts that used to have players there. Just actual characters that used to play in western realms?
HD has at least 4
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Out of curiosity, how many of your current nobles actually were members of western realms that were destroyed by there monster advance? Not returning players with new accounts, or new characters on accounts that used to have players there. Just actual characters that used to play in western realms?
By that definition 6/8, with the seventh being another character replacing one from Nisleur.
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Interesting. More than I would have thought. I remember checking accounts in Luria and only finding two or three.
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Even so there's been a tremendous loss of accounts from players that made the initial migration. Not so good for the game. Somehow that can't happen again.
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Many Barcans quit.
Poorly planned invasion, terrible plans, no way to refit ruined them. Well thats all I remember from my time in Barca.
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Many Barcans quit.
Poorly planned invasion, terrible plans, no way to refit ruined them. Well thats all I remember from my time in Barca.
Yeah that's basically what happened, neither the players nor devs handled it well sadly. Barca peaked at over 40 nobles before the migration and there are IDK how many left still alive in Dwilight or BM in general. Less than a dozen probably.
AH well, its history now.
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Many Barcans quit.
Poorly planned invasion, terrible plans, no way to refit ruined them. Well thats all I remember from my time in Barca.
RIP. That slog of an attempted invasion against Luria was brutal. Started in Fissoa, worked up the coast, half the army quit, orders were given to randomly loot a few regions, more people left, we finally got that town region, it was basically just us running out and attacking whenever Luria wasn't there. Honestly I don't know what took them so long to just wipe us out. D'Hara's expeditions always ended being repelled in that one region after the bridge, Fissoa was really trying in the South, but ended up getting pushed back.
Then there was all the inside bickering by some very crazy unique and opinionated characters. Then I was exiled and went to Morek with the ex-general, and then Morek began to fall apart so I jumped ship to Belu. What a wild ride.
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Honestly I don't know what took them so long to just wipe us out.
Sympathy to their plight despite their crimes (as Luria saw the looting and broken negotiations)? Seeing their D'Haran allies fail them over and over. A policy of giving them time and opportunity to turn their backs on their allies who were failing them from day one and join us against their allies (or a variety of offers along similar grounds) and actually achieve their survival (probably where Fissoa is now). A specific policy to take back Barcan lands last after re-liberating else (Poryatown, Giask, Irvington, SP etc.) while we continued to give them an opportunity to save their realm. Even as we were marching into Aveston in the final assault, my character was still offering Barca terms to avoid annihilation.
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I know we've argued this bitterly before, but your final terms weren't terms :p There wasn't any real offer, it was basically "we offered your previous rulers terms, but uh yeah your time is up". Which was for the best, Barca needed to die.
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By that definition 6/8, with the seventh being another character replacing one from Nisleur.
Assuming you're talking about Westfold, because that's where your character is, I don't know how you're counting. Because I'm a skeptic, and because I *know* that I counted back when Luria Nova was trying to play the "form a realm for the western refugees" schtick. You have 3 characters in your realm that are former members of a western realm. Rossgyr, Jericho, and Hengist.
As for HD, there's Lan, Shintuk II (only as a technicality, was 22 days until they joined LN), Velden, and Glaumring (I guess we *do* have to count him... :p ) So, yeah, four there. The funny thing is that when Eviera founded HD and claimed it was a refugee realm for the westerners, Luria Nova flat out rejected it. And now it has *more* refugees than the official refugee realm created by Luria nova! ::)
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Hey, guess what. Now there is only one interesting realm to join, because the rest are involved in gigantic !@#$ing alliance chains with no possibility for proper conflict. Join Westgard, and only Westgard. The rest of the island is becoming !@#$ing Atamara.
Ugh... the rulers of this island had better get their !@#$ together before Dwilight is sunk.
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Hey, guess what. Now there is only one interesting realm to join, because the rest are involved in gigantic !@#$ing alliance chains with no possibility for proper conflict. Join Westgard, and only Westgard. The rest of the island is becoming !@#$ing Atamara.
Ugh... the rulers of this island had better get their !@#$ together before Dwilight is sunk.
You do realize that the alliance between Arnor, Morek and Swordfell is your fault right? your political blundering made those 3 realms join together in a war and got their rulers to start talking to one another. Had you done your war declaration differently the war in the north would have ended up much differently and the Morek/Arnor/Swordfell alliance would never have happened.
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You do realize that the alliance between Arnor, Morek and Swordfell is your fault right? your political blundering made those 3 realms join together in a war and got their rulers to start talking to one another. Had you done your war declaration differently the war in the north would have ended up much differently and the Morek/Arnor/Swordfell alliance would never have happened.
Arnor and Swordfell were already allied, and Morek and Arnor were already allied. It was already headed in that direction and would have gone that way with or without my !@#$ing help. Don't be so !@#$ing dense. I'm on IRC if you want to talk about it.
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this is becoming a familiar conversation
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Arnor and Swordfell were already allied, and Morek and Arnor were already allied. It was already headed in that direction and would have gone that way with or without my !@#$ing help. Don't be so !@#$ing dense. I'm on IRC if you want to talk about it.
Swordfell was allied to HD as well until you wrecked that. In fact Swordfell hated Morek. There was a lot of animosity there until the two rulers actually started chatting and worked out their differences.
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Assuming you're talking about Westfold, because that's where your character is, I don't know how you're counting. Because I'm a skeptic, and because I *know* that I counted back when Luria Nova was trying to play the "form a realm for the western refugees" schtick. You have 3 characters in your realm that are former members of a western realm. Rossgyr, Jericho, and Hengist.
I suppose I was counting the "children" as well as characters still on their way to join us. Backstories and blood-relations aren't revealed by your counting.
As for the alliance chains forming, I don't know about anyone else, but when I see chains forming around me and I have a mere 8 or 9 nobles I start trying to not look like a tasty meal.
I'm happy to see 41 nobles over in Westgard, but do wish some would consider joining other realms. Many of us could use additional nobles and participants -- especially for their ambition and desires.
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Assuming you're talking about Westfold, because that's where your character is, I don't know how you're counting. Because I'm a skeptic, and because I *know* that I counted back when Luria Nova was trying to play the "form a realm for the western refugees" schtick. You have 3 characters in your realm that are former members of a western realm. Rossgyr, Jericho, and Hengist.
As for HD, there's Lan, Shintuk II (only as a technicality, was 22 days until they joined LN), Velden, and Glaumring (I guess we *do* have to count him... :p ) So, yeah, four there. The funny thing is that when Eviera founded HD and claimed it was a refugee realm for the westerners, Luria Nova flat out rejected it. And now it has *more* refugees than the official refugee realm created by Luria nova! ::)
Hey don't forget those who remained in LN, like Jocelin and Goriad.
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"Woe is me! I made poor choices, and paid the price for it. Now everyone will quit!"
Srsly... It is possible for people to have fun *without* following your plot lines. There is a crapload of potential for future conflict. Morek/Astrum, Morek/Swordfell, that new realm Westcopy or whatever... Lord knows I've been driving wedges everywhere I can find a crack. (And even making some new cracks myself!) Just because we joined together to beat up that one annoying jerky kid doesn't mean we're bff's.
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... that new realm Westcopy ...
we prefer West2
Let the dust settle and we'll have an internal discussion on a new name. Nearly impossible to have it before leaving Luria. :D
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I'm happy to see 41 nobles over in Westgard, but do wish some would consider joining other realms. Many of us could use additional nobles and participants -- especially for their ambition and desires.
Well they will, same with why Madina, Astrum and D'Hara had an influx as well. People want to carve new realms out of the west.
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Realms can't change names, except for very special circumstances, involving game master intervention. "We were boring and uncreative" isn't a good reason for a name change.
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Realms can't change names, except for very special circumstances, involving game master intervention. "We were boring and uncreative" isn't a good reason for a name change.
dammit. well, I'll know for the next time :D
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Next time you can go for something spiffy, like... The Honored People's Democratic Republic of the Constitutional Dictatorial Monarchy for the Western Directed Protectorate of Lurian Pawns.
Or ...
The HPDRotCDMftWDPoLP
Which most people refer to as "that Western thing".
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Oh com'on, it's prawns not pawns.
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Westfold was going to be name long before there was a Westgard.
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Realms can't change names, except for very special circumstances, involving game master intervention. "We were boring and uncreative" isn't a good reason for a name change.
Many real life realms and modern nations have pretty boring names too.
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There re still so many names on the many Continents and characters too that I have trouble spelling it could well cause a diplomatic incident one day.
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"Woe is me! I made poor choices, and paid the price for it. Now everyone will quit!"
Srsly... It is possible for people to have fun *without* following your plot lines. There is a crapload of potential for future conflict. Morek/Astrum, Morek/Swordfell, that new realm Westcopy or whatever... Lord knows I've been driving wedges everywhere I can find a crack. (And even making some new cracks myself!) Just because we joined together to beat up that one annoying jerky kid doesn't mean we're bff's.
Don't forget LN! We may be hurting from all the insurrections, but eventually we'll be back to fighting all our neighbors at once, you mark my words. Between Swordfell getting uppity and Arkady Mayhem being a Mayhem in Luria Boreal, there's no shortage of potential future conflict!