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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Meneldur on May 30, 2016, 04:02:03 AM
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So its been a long time since I played a character with any interest in NW Dwilight and a lot has changed. Since the wiki is practically dead now, I was wondering if someone could explain to me how on earth SA and ES ended up in such a loving relationship? I mean NW Dwilight is just about as peace-locked and boring as its ever been, I would have thought people would be jumping at the possibility of conflict.
Where's a Kabrinski when you need one...
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pretty much everyone is fighting wars or monster swarms or recovering from empire collapses. i think only fissoa and hd are not in one of those situations. so actually every realm is pretty busy in one way or another.
what, in your opinion, should the situation look like?
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War war war! ;D Unleash the battle ponies!
"Ma'Lord! But they outnumber us 10-1!"
"TREASON! Send him to the front of the line to die first."
Crusades! Pillaging! Back stabbing! Something that doesn't mean everyone is staring at each other like "Oh hey there... enjoying your monsters? I am too! What a coincidence... let's kill them together!"
Jokes aside,
I'd like to see someone capitalize on all this monster chaos.
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pretty much everyone is fighting wars or monster swarms or recovering from empire collapses. i think only fissoa and hd are not in one of those situations. so actually every realm is pretty busy in one way or another.
what, in your opinion, should the situation look like?
Well, I guess I'm just surprised to see to see what was once Morek divided peacefully between realms of the two religions. I would have thought Morek and Astrum at least would want to claim Caiyun, or that the two ES realms would want to finally purge the remains of the old theocracies. Instead all I've encountered is an "Interfaith Council" and the two religions apparently giving each other "variant" status.
But then again I'm basing this on SA attitudes from ages back, hence why I was wondering whether there was any specific history behind the fact the two religions have come to peacefully coexist.
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I was wondering if someone could explain to me how on earth SA and ES ended up in such a loving relationship?
It's been off and on, depending upon events. But basically, Turin and Seoras got along enough and Turin founded the Interfaith Council. And SA and ESA are both orthodox, I would say ESA is more orthodox than SA is.
I mean NW Dwilight is just about as peace-locked and boring as its ever been, I would have thought people would be jumping at the possibility of conflict.
Where's a Kabrinski when you need one...
There was going to be conflict, Kabrinski and all, but the same old SA status-quo, peace-loving political domination happened.
Morek Empire was announced as a dual SA-ESA theocracy. I even consecrated a temple expansion dedicated to their war victory against my own realm (trying to deter the idea of religion as a political allegiance as much as a spiritual culture), half war-memorial. Kabrinski ruling Morek, we were aiming for a nice-even war of our two weak Morek, HD realms against Arnor. There was quiet tension over Freke with Astrum still. Then dustole quit, Katrina became ruler, and wouldn't talk to us (her ally) until after she had traded a bunch of regions with Astrum and Arnor, formed alliances with them, and asked us for our region. When I tried to discuss the matter, I never heard anything back. Oh, and that temple that was dedicated to Morek Empire's war victory in an SA-ESA theocracy? Destroyed by a new lord, not even of SA, pagan, with no real care or enforcement at all by Morek's government. So the same old 'we are SA, we can never fight each other, we love peace, and war is bad unless the continent all wars the same realm' attitude carries on.
Between what I've mentioned here and various other events, I've probably become really burnt out with the whole thing as it seems that no matter how much you try, no one gives a !@#$ and just wants to sit on their titles and play CooperationMaster. So why even try? You can openly share eldership, church direction, and theology with others, but everyone insists on doing their own thing, keeping us all isolated in smaller numbers (isnt that what our realms are for, why should religions be smaller than realms?) boring our time away instead of engaging each other. You try to enforce anything (like protecting your temples) and you're warlike and must be destroyed. You provide the exact reforms others are demanding in another church, but god forbid cooperating with those who already agree with you instead of arguing with those opposed (and if you win your argument, then you just make two churches that are more similar and bland for the continental experience instead of two conflicting churches). It's rather depressing to make the exact same points as others to have them fall on deaf ears.
Well, I guess I'm just surprised to see to see what was once Morek divided peacefully between realms of the two religions.
It wasn't exactly peaceful, even if it was internal. SA's ruling hierarchy tried to keep it together and it was non-SA Morekian elements that broke it apart. SA wanted to keep Morek's domination of entire duchies without lords and 3 regions for each noble in realm.
I would have thought Morek and Astrum at least would want to claim Caiyun, or that the two ES realms would want to finally purge the remains of the old theocracies.
Morek is a theocracy of both ESA and SA, or at least claimed to be. Astrum was at war with HD over Caiyun until my character joined HD to provide a priestly rule over Caiyun that had been lost. ESA is more about a community trying to improve the continent's playing atmosphere more than political wars; that said, the peacelock/allianceblock is something we've consistently condemned from SA's theocratic federation/alliances. I just want to stress ESA is more about condemning Things Going Wrong (whether a lord, or a realm, or an idea) than SA, realms, or other political entities.
But like I said above, I am probably burnt out, as it seems too many people wanting to do it their own way (reforming SA, ESA, Darkanism, VE, Storm Maid, etc.). At least Dwilight is doing better than EC's ten tiny religions with most having only a single priest. While I personally might be burnt out from seeming like my efforts are in vain, I do understand there are some eager ESA faithful down in Luria Boreal.
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Where's a Kabrinski when you need one...
The last Kabrinski is dead after she summoned Daimons while Morek still at war with Arnor. Last I hear that last Kabrinski somehow showed up or resurrected at Belu depending on which versions of story you on, though that topic for Belu.
War war war! ;D Unleash the battle ponies!
"Ma'Lord! But they outnumber us 10-1!"
"TREASON! Send him to the front of the line to die first."
Crusades! Pillaging! Back stabbing! Something that doesn't mean everyone is staring at each other like "Oh hey there... enjoying your monsters? I am too! What a coincidence... let's kill them together!"
Jokes aside,
I'd like to see someone capitalize on all this monster chaos.
I agree with your analogy. It is funny :P
That's why my character is trying to push for crusade. But there are just too many old characters above my character in SA :(
Morek Empire was announced as a dual SA-ESA theocracy. I even consecrated a temple expansion dedicated to their war victory against my own realm (trying to deter the idea of religion as a political allegiance as much as a spiritual culture), half war-memorial. Kabrinski ruling Morek, we were aiming for a nice-even war of our two weak Morek, HD realms against Arnor. There was quiet tension over Freke with Astrum still. Then dustole quit, Katrina became ruler, and wouldn't talk to us (her ally) until after she had traded a bunch of regions with Astrum and Arnor, formed alliances with them, and asked us for our region. When I tried to discuss the matter, I never heard anything back. Oh, and that temple that was dedicated to Morek Empire's war victory in an SA-ESA theocracy? Destroyed by a new lord, not even of SA, pagan, with no real care or enforcement at all by Morek's government. So the same old 'we are SA, we can never fight each other, we love peace, and war is bad unless the continent all wars the same realm' attitude carries on.
Katrina after Kabrinski not speaking much either. Now my character trying to *hush hush* start a new Revolution in Morek, we shall see 8)
I do agree with Vita post above, it pretty much describes everything. Though my character does not know about outside communication, but at least he is in this internally at Morek.
So if you wish to start a little new war or something on Dwilight, you can contact me.
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Perhaps we are stalling ourselves too long by making the excuse "we are busy with monsters"... People are too desperate to hold what power they have and do not take risks... this is the main issue in the present.
We need to find a way to force these people to take risks. Through persuasion or violence... both works well for me... I planned to provoke Luria Nova and drag them into taking action... but felt that it may hinder the nice 1 v 1 in westfold and Swordfell. (Hence my apology came forward((Vita also told me to do it ;P through RP of course))
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Thanks for the explanation, Vita. I have to say it is rather depressing to read so much potential going to waste- there definitely seems to be an attitude problem here. I mean voluntarily giving away regions even when you have the numbers and allies to defend them? CooperationMaster indeed.
Nevertheless I think there could still be potential for conflict: as I see it there are sufficient differences between SA and ESA that it should be possible to stir up some religious tension, particularly in realms that have something to gain from such a war. Maybe after the war between Swordfell and Westfold finishes I'll have my character become a priest and see what he can do. The trick will be to have a concept of "holy war" that doesn't necessitate a an SA Federation pile-up; perhaps more an idea of an individual realm undertaking a personal quest to purge an area of heathens rather than a crusade-style "defense of the faith" idea. But anyway we shall have to see, my character is too involved with Swordfell at the moment for this to be anything more than daydreaming.
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Thanks for the explanation, Vita. I have to say it is rather depressing to read so much potential going to waste- there definitely seems to be an attitude problem here. I mean voluntarily giving away regions even when you have the numbers and allies to defend them? CooperationMaster indeed.
Nevertheless I think there could still be potential for conflict: as I see it there are sufficient differences between SA and ESA that it should be possible to stir up some religious tension, particularly in realms that have something to gain from such a war. Maybe after the war between Swordfell and Westfold finishes I'll have my character become a priest and see what he can do. The trick will be to have a concept of "holy war" that doesn't necessitate a an SA Federation pile-up; perhaps more an idea of an individual realm undertaking a personal quest to purge an area of heathens rather than a crusade-style "defense of the faith" idea. But anyway we shall have to see, my character is too involved with Swordfell at the moment for this to be anything more than daydreaming.
Don't worry, we've got this one covered! We were slightly sidetracked by a lot of monster hordes, but with that being cleared I plan to do at least something. Although it will be relatively small, it should hopefully pave the way for some future stuff as well. My char is now so aggressively pushing this, that not even our ruler or any other would be able to stop it now.
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Don't worry, we've got this one covered! We were slightly sidetracked by a lot of monster hordes, but with that being cleared I plan to do at least something. Although it will be relatively small, it should hopefully pave the way for some future stuff as well. My char is now so aggressively pushing this, that not even our ruler or any other would be able to stop it now.
And he has me as Judge supporting him :3
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And he has me as Judge supporting him :3
Don't worry, we've got this one covered! We were slightly sidetracked by a lot of monster hordes, but with that being cleared I plan to do at least something. Although it will be relatively small, it should hopefully pave the way for some future stuff as well. My char is now so aggressively pushing this, that not even our ruler or any other would be able to stop it now.
Conspirators! How dare you attempt to make a war more interesting! CALL THE FUN POLICE! Where's SA when you need it? I
;P jokes aside again,
I'm interested to see what you'll do. Hopefully you can spark some tension between SA and ESA.
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That's why my character is trying to push for crusade. But there are just too many old characters above my character in SA :(
Katrina after Kabrinski not speaking much either. Now my character trying to *hush hush* start a new Revolution in Morek, we shall see 8)
So if you wish to start a little new war or something on Dwilight, you can contact me.
I've been planning on assasinating Katrina for some time now. I'm glad im not the only one with grand plans.
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Perhaps we are stalling ourselves too long by making the excuse "we are busy with monsters"... People are too desperate to hold what power they have and do not take risks... this is the main issue in the present.
LN just destroyed a 10,000 CS horde, watched about the same numbers pour into Fissoan lands, and we are currently dealing with a horde that was up to 22,000 CS last time we checked... Believe me when I say I'd rather be fighting other realms :P
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LN just destroyed a 10,000 CS horde, watched about the same numbers pour into Fissoan lands, and we are currently dealing with a horde that was up to 22,000 CS last time we checked... Believe me when I say I'd rather be fighting other realms :P
So from what I'm seeing... you are desperately trying to hold onto your land, when it is obvious someone doesn't want you to have it?
You are literally fighting EXTREMELY OVERSIDED HORDES that do NOT typically spawn anywhere else... to hold onto to your POWER!
(I'm sorry if I seem a bit aggressive... I just couldn't resist pointing it out Q Q forgive me... I'm kind, I swear to you!)
There is plenty reason to fight others now. NOW is the time to push claims, NOW is the time to settle vengeance, NOW is the time to make change. EVERYONE is weak from being pummeled by hordes!
This isn't all directed at you at all Sacha, but to all of us playing on Dwilight...
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, relinquish me of my ignorance. Please be gentle ;P
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Problem with that is, while you attack others, those hordes make claim to your lands. You dont send armies to war abroad, while your home is burning.
-Jaune
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And he has me as Judge supporting him :3
Yeah without that support, it prob wouldn't work that well. I'm seriously considering having Luria Borreal push north anyway, despite the 26k horde which cam from LN into our lands. It would resize Luria Borreal quite a bit prob, losing Aveston in the process. It's kinda rediculous though that you have to accept losses like that simply if you want to do something else than fighting monsters.
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I think it's one of the things plaguing Swordfell as well. They've lost a handful of southern lands to rogues and can't sustain the Westfold campaign.
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I quite like it, actually... a clever schemer could use these hordes to their advantage.
*eyes shifting suspiciously*
Seriously though, I don't really mind the hordes, even if they are becomeing bigger and bigger. I don't care what I'm fighting, as long as I can fight. It's just a matter of finding a way to deal with them most advantageously. For instance, it's not an accident that LN never arrived, Cador delibrately delayed marching so the monsters would put LB on the backfoot by taking/destroying some lands, so the noble heroes from LN could swoop in at the last minute to save the day. Why do you think we have an eagle on our banner in the first place ;) The horde attacking Maf was a blessing in disguise, as Cador was running short on excuses to explain why his army was still not in LB.
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Problem with that is, while you attack others, those hordes make claim to your lands. You dont send armies to war abroad, while your home is burning.
-Jaune
You do not necessarily have to send your entire force to attack, something as simple as a raid enough to make things interesting.
Things that cause upsets and drama, that will make the more island interesting. Right now, no one will care... they have their own issues to take care of. Swordfell has a plan to stay in the war, it is something that is quite obvious and not too hard to accomplish.
You can be hostile and still maintain your land.
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You do not necessarily have to send your entire force to attack, something as simple as a raid enough to make things interesting.
Things that cause upsets and drama, that will make the more island interesting. Right now, no one will care... they have their own issues to take care of. Swordfell has a plan to stay in the war, it is something that is quite obvious and not too hard to accomplish.
You can be hostile and still maintain your land.
So much this! I really wish more realms would pick smaller conflicts instead of the usual wars of annihilation or submission.
But I can't recall a single armed conflict in BM where it was just part of a realm involved and not all of it. The different realm armies might fight in different places, but they are all fighting. Part of the reason I've always wished we could have more a more duchy-centric game is that I think (or hope, at least) that it would encourage Dukes to be a little more ambitious. Most Dukes are just glorified caretakers, and only a few try to wield their power to further their own ambitions. And often those who do are put down for the greater good of the realm.
Duchy politics and global mortality for characters would give this game a lift in the RP department. These days it's 90% strategy and 10% roleplaying, which is a damn shame.
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So much this! I really wish more realms would pick smaller conflicts instead of the usual wars of annihilation or submission.
But I can't recall a single armed conflict in BM where it was just part of a realm involved and not all of it. The different realm armies might fight in different places, but they are all fighting. Part of the reason I've always wished we could have more a more duchy-centric game is that I think (or hope, at least) that it would encourage Dukes to be a little more ambitious. Most Dukes are just glorified caretakers, and only a few try to wield their power to further their own ambitions. And often those who do are put down for the greater good of the realm.
Duchy politics and global mortality for characters would give this game a lift in the RP department. These days it's 90% strategy and 10% roleplaying, which is a damn shame.
Talerium's raids in Minas Leon no longer count? Usually only half the realm would join, while the rest stayed at home. Additionally I think Darka used to have quite a big homeguard also that never went to war, but not certain. But you're right that it's never a single Duke sending out his men or something and in many cases that wouldn't work because Lords are more loyal to the realm than to the Duke in most cases. It's quite a general attitude issue I'm afraid.
I would love for more duchy politics and mortality and have advocated for both in the past as well.
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the natural forces of the game will take care of things moreso than any forum fretting. its going to be a fact of life on dwilight that some realms fight monsters mainly and others human realms, but i think that will be an interesting dynamic.
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the natural forces of the game will take care of things moreso than any forum fretting. its going to be a fact of life on dwilight that some realms fight monsters mainly and others human realms, but i think that will be an interesting dynamic.
But at this point that will not happen untill some nations get destroyed. Right now there are too many regions for chars and thus we get an increased monster spawning and everyone is now getting hit with the code changes. So you'll see most people trying to hold on to their lands, only fighting monsters. So almost all realms will be fighting monsters rather than neighbours.
Which brings with it a new strategy, burn down your enemies before the monsters burn you down. Fortunately that can be perfectly linked with the teachings of the Bloodflow in ESA at least (not sure if SA uses those teachings also), which reminds me that we actually have to update the wiki on that :p
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but if you burn down your neighbor, you're just exposing yourself to more risk as their monster problem becomes yours. a lot of smart planning is going to be required in player vs player wars to keep the balance.
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but if you burn down your neighbor, you're just exposing yourself to more risk as their monster problem becomes yours. a lot of smart planning is going to be required in player vs player wars to keep the balance.
This is assuming that the monsters travel in your direction... it is by pure chance that they travel to you and both another. Which they will do anyway if your targeted neighbor cannot fend it off.
The way of the game sure does have a funny way of working out, no? Sometimes we have long boring nothingness and other times... we have cooperation and mutual agreement on how to make the game fun.
I wonder which I'd rather help steer us in? ;)
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I dont know who you are, are you in a position to steer anything?
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I dont know who you are, are you in a position to steer anything?
My identity is best left known to a few ^^ (Mwahaha)
Am I in a position to make change? Yes. Are you? Yes.
The thing is that ANYONE can make change happen, letting yourself be discouraged to do anything because you're not "in a position to make change" always end in your defeat...
Anyone can sway an opinion or incite rebellion, how do I know this? I'VE DONE IT. Even the head of SA can be convinced to do something for the better of the game (or someone's opinion of a better game that is). Doubting the ability to cause change will leave yourself in a stagnant state, which said state will become obsolete as time goes on...
This conversation has already been steered in a whole different direction just by the use of words. I do not know how to answer your question other than that.
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regardless of whether that means anything i can change things, so stay tuned