BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: Bronnen on August 12, 2016, 01:05:40 AM
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I've had a few thought for abilities that elder priests specifically might get.
First one was an improved version of the drive out heretic one. Punish heretic. Instead of just driving them out of the region, loyal religious peasants and militia would try to kill or imprison the heretic. This could also allow for religious prisons where enemies of the faith can be held.
Second, minor magical abilities much like the scrolls the sages make.
Third, declare a religious state in cities and stronghold with a very high percentage of faithful. The realm in control would need very low morale or it could act like a rebellion where they try to take control of the palace.
I think these changes could be very easily balanced and might make people consider becoming a priest if they can actively affect things instead of just rp.
What do you think?
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Second, minor magical abilities much like the scrolls the sages make.
No. Never.
Player characters do not do magic.
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Well apart from that one then?
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troll priests? like in wow?
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What?
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Third, declare a religious state in cities and stronghold with a very high percentage of faithful. The realm in control would need very low morale or it could act like a rebellion where they try to take control of the palace.
I'm not sure what you want for this that the current Declare Religious State/Claim Region option doesn't permit.
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I've never been able to use that option. Does it create a colony that is automatically a theocracy?
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I've never been able to use that option. Does it create a colony that is automatically a theocracy?
No, and no such option will be added.
Claim Region is colloquially known as the "religious takeover." It makes the priest using it the Lord of the region, and adds it to his realm.
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Ah see that's what I thought.
I was more thinking this way it would allow an elder priest to create a realm of his faith by using the strength of the peasants. May I ask why it would not be added?
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Ah see that's what I thought.
I was more thinking this way it would allow an elder priest to create a realm of his faith by using the strength of the peasants. May I ask why it would not be added?
Partly because creating new realms is, by design, possible only by a very strictly limited number of actions, that we don't particularly want to expand.
Partly because you need a lot more than peasants to create a new realm.
But primarily because it would be hugely, massively abusable. Rather than just taking an adjacent region away from a realm, and thus forcing them to take it back along the frontier, you'd be able to cut a core region out of the realm and make it an instant capital, with no support, and, given the state of the religious game, not necessarily any real investment of effort, if you've got a few temples in the general vicinity and there are no competing religions.
Furthermore, because of how abusable it would be, it would also be that much more incentive for people to lock down religion within their realm, and lock out any religion that wasn't directly supporting their realm.
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Fair enough, what about religious prisons and capturing non-believers and holding them in there?
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Fair enough, what about religious prisons and capturing non-believers and holding them in there?
If we were to implement the possibility of capturing nobles by a religious option, they would still go to the realm prison. We're not going to start implementing all kinds of different prisons willy-nilly.
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What about riling up the peasants and militia to try and kill the lord?
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What about riling up the peasants and militia to try and kill the lord?
You can already drive out the lord and/or knight(s?) by using the auto da fe option. If you've got enough of a following in the region and the lord/knight isn't a follower of your religion.
Since you can only kill heroes anyway and those only the battlefield, this option is exactly what you're suggesting and as far as it will go.
The point of battlemaster is not to give individuals a lot of buttons to click and gain ultimate power, it is to work together with others and achieve your goals by cooperation.
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I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a religious prison (dont take that as approval though, just my personal sentiment). But, there are a lot of buts...
Prison code is some of the oldest legacy spaghetti code. Before any new prisons, we *really* need to improve the existing code.
Religious changes require some carefully laid out thought for some of the reasons Anaris and Lorgan already mentioned.
Religions are still essentially guilds, not realms, there are plans to change that, but they are just that, plans. So because religions are guilds, it means there are limitations on what can be done compared to a realm.
There are effectively three development volunteers, so even if anything *was* accepted, its unpredictable how soon approved changes would be completed. And there are quite a few pre-existing projects. I mean, statues and monuments only spent four years as an approved feature request before completion...
Religion code is also dated in many areas, like auto da fes and religious takeovers, including various bugs. Before adding new features, it would be nice to make sure the existing ones are properly functioning.
Most of these suggested changes, if approved, will take some time, not a few simple lines to change.
In terms of character death - character death has long been something that must be largely chosen by the player. They choose to become hero. They play an advy. They play on an island with universal mortality (War Island). They get banished from a realm and then go do activities that are likely to get them captured. We will definitely not be changing character death to something that is forced upon them against their will after they've been told that that they get a choice over their character's demise.
And I would stress Lorgan's last line on interaction. Mechanics are just tools to facilitate further roleplay. Religion especially involves a lot of cooperation.
For what its worth, I did start messing with having new characters and immigrating characters have to choose a religion, just like choosing a realm. But last week, I spent more time on getting War Island reset. This week, I have some real life things I'm dealing with. Eventually though, I hope to have that added step available.
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Aaah, I understand. So before any changes to religion can be done, it needs to be updated. Gotcha!
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I wouldn't say 'any'. New suggestions are implemented. I'm just cautioning that religion has some legacy bits that need improved that are probably higher-priority than large new features, in combination with limited volunteer coding resources, thus I recommend some grains of salt when suggesting larger features because they are not likely to get quickly implemented, even if approved. If an idea is good enough, it'll be approved, but it may not get implemented quickly, no matter how good it is, if it requires a lot of effort. The smaller/simpler the change, the more likely a volunteer will feel up to tackling it; for one, there's 3 volunteers willing and able to do small changes, but only 2 able to do larger changes. We do welcome suggestions, but it must be remembered that the resources to implement the suggestions are limited.
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having played in a realm where forced conversion to the realm's religion was part of realm policy, and seeing how very unfun that was and how much it turned off new players that they couldn't rp their characters the way THEY wanted, i seriously have to object to this whole forced religion deal.
i see no one clamoring for this except you, vita, and im left scratching my head as to why you continue to devote energy and time to this mostly-unasked-for pet project when nothing is being done to fix looting, militia problems, etc that make waging war in bm an unbalanced hassle for many realms, and have been repeatedly requested for fixing by many players.
religion is an aspect of the game that SO many players want no part of, whether because of lack of interest in any of the stale established religions, or because of the repeatedly proven historical tendency for religion to lead only to entrenched federations and gangbanging. forcing it on players isnt going to make it better. the ingame religious features that already exist are more than enough for those who WANT to take part in it.
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If you had always been allowed to play rogue nobles, would you clamor that 'players cannot roleplay their characters the way they wanted' with regard to realm membership being required? Or priest-infils? Or only human characters? Some things are necessary to create a well-balanced game or maintain the period environment. Should we remove realms because they have a repeated proven historical tendency to lead to entrenched federations and gangbanging?
I have looked into looting. There is definitely stuff to be fixed. I'm not done looking into it and neither is Anaris. I have not touched militia. I tend to have a lot of different stashes, branches, or in-progress edits within my repo, at any given time. I have actually spent little time on coding the project, as most of the last many months I've merely advocated for it.
Didn't you yourself once mention you understood code, but refused to touch PHP, or have I confused you for another player? If you really want something done in BM and you are able to do it yourself, then you are encouraged to volunteer yourself. It's the fastest way it'll get done.
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having played in a realm where forced conversion to the realm's religion was part of realm policy, and seeing how very unfun that was and how much it turned off new players that they couldn't rp their characters the way THEY wanted, i seriously have to object to this whole forced religion deal.
i see no one clamoring for this except you, vita, and im left scratching my head as to why you continue to devote energy and time to this mostly-unasked-for pet project when nothing is being done to fix looting, militia problems, etc that make waging war in bm an unbalanced hassle for many realms, and have been repeatedly requested for fixing by many players.
religion is an aspect of the game that SO many players want no part of, whether because of lack of interest in any of the stale established religions, or because of the repeatedly proven historical tendency for religion to lead only to entrenched federations and gangbanging. forcing it on players isnt going to make it better. the ingame religious features that already exist are more than enough for those who WANT to take part in it.
Actually in this field I agree with Vita on the fact of enforce religion. We don't always see eye to eye on all things, such as voting out of Dukes of which i very very strongly object, but I do agree with him on forcing religion and making it a bit more important than it currently is. Religion from the base should have played an important role, but also some religions need to adapt a bit. What happened with the SA federation (realm over religion !@#$) should be avoided of course, which is player based. If they don't use religion for it, they'll use something else.
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Actually in this field I agree with Vita on the fact of enforce religion. We don't always see eye to eye on all things, such as voting out of Dukes of which i very very strongly object, but I do agree with him on forcing religion and making it a bit more important than it currently is. Religion from the base should have played an important role, but also some religions need to adapt a bit. What happened with the SA federation (realm over religion !@#$) should be avoided of course, which is player based. If they don't use religion for it, they'll use something else.
But then how would new religions be founded? Aspirant ranks often gave associated costs, which lead to negative religion balance and being unable to leave the religion.
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But then how would new religions be founded? Aspirant ranks often gave associated costs, which lead to negative religion balance and being unable to leave the religion.
which I think is bull!@#$. I believe you should have to pay the costs with your own gold, and if you don't have the gold, then it gives you a negative balance.
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But then how would new religions be founded? Aspirant ranks often gave associated costs, which lead to negative religion balance and being unable to leave the religion.
Some religions let you pay for full membership, but I don't think aspirant has ever been paid? Or I might be missing your point here?
And new religions are founded like they are still and then it will become one of the religions of which people can choose from.
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Some religions let you pay for full membership, but I don't think aspirant has ever been paid? Or I might be missing your point here?
And new religions are founded like they are still and then it will become one of the religions of which people can choose from.
He means the monthly fee, not the cost to gain the position.