BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: JeVondair on September 27, 2016, 06:10:20 PM
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I'd like to see a new message type for rulers to use when making official announcements to the realm. Maybe give it gold background for DECREE in the same fashion that reports are blue and orders are red, etc.
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gold would get confused with RPs. Outer Tilog votes for white. That way even those illegal literate scribes can't read it.
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Why not go with purple?
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What's wrong with Orders that rulers need a specific colour?
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Well, I kinda see that.
Rulers don't always issue orders, but rather pass important information. (Good) Rulers are usually the people who inform the entire realm on policies, foreign affairs, news from all around the continent, etc. I'd appreciate it if they could give their messages a special colour.
But I guess it's not super important.
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Usually you see generals and marshals send out orders. People just use important messages as orders. But when they overlap, you just see a wall of red messages. I think giving a ruler a different colored letter may help with that.
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ooooo Purple is a good idea...
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I use "report" when i report things... "order" when i order things... "request" when i request things... Not totally understanding why there is need for somekind of extra message?
-Jaune
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Well, I kinda see that.Rulers don't always issue orders, but rather pass important information. (Good) Rulers are usually the people who inform the entire realm on policies, foreign affairs, news from all around the continent, etc. I'd appreciate it if they could give their messages a special colour.But I guess it's not super important.
Usually you see generals and marshals send out orders. People just use important messages as orders. But when they overlap, you just see a wall of red messages. I think giving a ruler a different colored letter may help with that.
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Is there really realms which are so filled with messages that rulers report would go unnoticed?
-Jaune
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Is there really realms which are so filled with messages that rulers report would go unnoticed?
-Jaune
Join Xavax ;D
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Not really in favour of another type of message.
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I am, considering I am in realms with upwards of 40 messages regularly.
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...40 messages per what?
If it's less frequently than "per hour", then I don't see a problem.
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That's a fairly facetious answer, given some players only have 10 minutes a day to spend on BM.
If you only have so much time and several characters in active realms, you only read personal messages and coloured messages.
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Ummm I don't remember ever seeing 40 letters per hour in this game ever and my starting realm was Abington... I'd not read most letters if I were getting 40 per hour to be honest.
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Ummm I don't remember ever seeing 40 letters per hour in this game ever and my starting realm was Abington... I'd not read most letters if I were getting 40 per hour to be honest.
Used to happen from time to time in Riombara.
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Used to happen from time to time in Riombara.
I think you meant to quote Zakky...
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I think you meant to quote Zakky...
Yep! Thanks. Fixed.
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Yes, colored messages.. report, request, order...
If there is that much colored messages that you need another colored message... i think you should ask to tune down a bit colored messages.
-Jaune
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If there is that much colored messages that you need another colored message... i think you should ask to tune down a bit colored messages.
That makes no sense.
Colour on messages is needed to quickly discern between types of messages when you're logging in in a hurry. Another colored message is required not because there is too many other coloured messages, but because it will make skimming through messages even swifter without risking to miss important information.
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Not to mention some people just use quickplay to play. You only get important messages that way.
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Ummm I don't remember ever seeing 40 letters per hour in this game ever and my starting realm was Abington... I'd not read most letters if I were getting 40 per hour to be honest.
I think this happened in Perdan, circa '07/'08.
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I think this happened in Perdan, circa '07/'08.
I'm pretty sure Fontan had periods of that as well, during elections or when interesting stuff was debated in the assembly.
But I do like the royal decree option though, if it is added to the quickplay. Maybe even make it something like the standing order, but then for everyone?
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Apologies for the bump, but I just wanted to follow up on this? More and more, I wish this could be implemented. As has been intimated before, it may not be a big deal for smaller realms or for nations that are at peace. But for larger realms that are at war, all the red flying back and forth can be confusing and it would be a big help if the Ruler could make specifically-colored Decrees
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Damn shame this won't be implemented.
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Damn shame this won't be implemented.
+1
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Ok that's too bad! How do we requestors no if/when something has been denied or approved?
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Ok that's too bad! How do we requestors no if/when something has been denied or approved?
When Anaris says he doesn't like it or he doesn't feel the request feature is not needed.
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40 messages per hour used to be frequent... in certain circumstances. Huge tournaments, for example. Or rebellions. So not all the time, but it did happen.
Report seems the most appropriate message type, at least for the time being. With scout reports being shared more automatically now, we see much less "report" messages than ever, so the need for a new type is lesser than ever. Especially since we also get less messages per turn than ever.
I'm not saying that having a special "decree" type message available to government members would be bad. Reports are typically for short-term notices of without instructions, such as "here are some scout reports", "my army is moving East", and "allied reinformcements are on the way". Stuff that, while meaningful upon being shared, quickly loses relevance. A judge announcing a prisoner treaty with another realm, or a ruler announcing a persona non grata, for example, are things that convey instructions and don't quickly lose relevance, while also not conveying active and immediate instructions as orders do.
But can we think of another color that would be distinct enough from the others, while also not being a total eye sore? This is the biggest issue, imo.
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Is this a solution in search of a problem?
I have no problems with people missing my decrees, and we're busily & happily at war. Perhaps use fewer words and send out fewer non-essential messages as ruler?
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Fewer non-essential messages as ruler? Bs, send out more!
@Chenier, problem with report is that it's not visible under the quickplay. For now we'll have to use orders I suppose. (When I see I mean others as I have no ruler left atm).
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Fewer non-essential messages as ruler? Bs, send out more!
@Chenier, problem with report is that it's not visible under the quickplay. For now we'll have to use orders I suppose. (When I see I mean others as I have no ruler left atm).
To be honest, though, "decrees" are not really something I would figure should be shown in quickplay anyways. Examples that come to my mind aren't really stuff that a player absolutely needs to see before TC occurs, which is what quickplay is for.
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ok ok ok
Instead of a new message type, can rulers get a sort of "Standing Decree" similar to a Judges standing orders? Players in Xavax have been overwhelmed by the amount of activity and it would be nice to, instead of answering the same questions over and over, I could simply add/update/remove a standing Royal Decree.
When I say overwhelmed, I mean players missed a few days and came back to 500+ messages.
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There *is* a Ruler's Bulletin. I don't think there's any such thing as a "judge's standing orders", just a Judge's Bulletin.
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Oh. Using ruler's bulletin might not be a bad idea.
Maybe it should have a purple background! With gold letters!
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If the bulletin is not enough room for text, you can always link to a wiki page with more info. And make *that* purple and gold, if you so care.
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I meant to write a "General's" standing orders, lol
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I don't think they do? They have a General's Bulletin. You may be thinking of the marshal/vice-marshal standing orders. As far as I know, those are the only 'standing orders' within the game.
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You're absolutely right, what was I thinking?
Its been so long since I've held either title I mustve forgotten
SO yeah, can we do something like that but for rulers?
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I would highly agree with this. Hardly anyone looks at the Ruler Bulletin, and you're likely to miss that it's been updated if you're scrolling through 500+ messages. Ruler standing decree would be nice.
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I'm thinking only GX has this problem right now ;D
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I'm thinking only GX has this problem right now ;D
There are occasions in other realms where messages would drown out the notice of the Ruler bulletin changing, and you don't know whether it was an actual change or just someone correcting grammar or spelling.
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There are occasions in other realms where messages would drown out the notice of the Ruler bulletin changing, and you don't know whether it was an actual change or just someone correcting grammar or spelling.
Oh do not get me wrong, I don't think the bulletins are actually read by many people. At least not by me or the realms I am in. Nor do I think they are frequently updated (again, guilty as well).
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Heh, the ruler bulletin of Outer Tilog hasn't been updated since it was updated by Lich King on 2004-12-27 (but that was a conscious choice by the players in OT ;D). It's older than a couple of my kids!
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Ye Olde Bulletin (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Outer_Tilog_(Realm)/Ye_Olde_Bulletin) is possibly older than some players. Certainly once you get your kids to play. ;)
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lol, but no lemme clarify real quick. I meant having a Ruler's Standing Decree that all players in a realm see whenever they quick play or look at messages, much like the Marshal's standing orders. Thoughts?
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Don't think this is really needed to be honest. We survived just find even when there were 200 characters in one realm.
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There was such thing as 200 players per realm?! :O
I'm late for battlemaster I guess. :(
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Too many "standing" letters also means more needless scrolling for people in a hurry to quickly review stuff, especially on their cells. I don't really think adding more of them would be a good thing.
Rulers bulletins aren't frequently consulted, but they aren't frequently updated either. People may not consult them on their own, and probably not more than once, but nothing stops you from telling people to check it.
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Too many "standing" letters also means more needless scrolling for people in a hurry to quickly review stuff, especially on their cells. I don't really think adding more of them would be a good thing.
Rulers bulletins aren't frequently consulted, but they aren't frequently updated either. People may not consult them on their own, and probably not more than once, but nothing stops you from telling people to check it.
Lol, what? It would be about the same size as the current standing orders, so I really don't see where this would introduce needless scrolling when it's already needed to prevent that in places like GX where the sheer amount of messages means you're likely to miss the order to check the ruler bulletin. We should be making things better for realms that have lots of nobles because they are successful and we want that to continue. We shouldn't refuse to help these realms be a fun place just because the majority of realms are not that big. It would be like saying a city should not have a metro because the majority of towns do not.
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Lol, what? It would be about the same size as the current standing orders, so I really don't see where this would introduce needless scrolling when it's already needed to prevent that in places like GX where the sheer amount of messages means you're likely to miss the order to check the ruler bulletin. We should be making things better for realms that have lots of nobles because they are successful and we want that to continue. We shouldn't refuse to help these realms be a fun place just because the majority of realms are not that big. It would be like saying a city should not have a metro because the majority of towns do not.
Sure, if GX was the greatest and most active realm to have ever existed. But it's not. Realms like GX were pretty much the norm when I started playing, and many realms had hundreds of players.
I've been in GX, I've seen it. Especially being on the OOC group, there was a fair amount of chatter. But I have a had time understanding what the ruler would need to constantly stuff in everyone's face? Nothing stops you from making yourself marshal, if you really want to use that feature.
And frankly, people who miss the orders would just as much miss your standing order. You can't fix lazy. Orders already stick out, and you see them on quickplay, and you can filter for them. People who don't see orders are scrolling too fast. People who scroll too fast are just as likely to scroll past your standing orders.
Maybe you you could give an example of what exactly you'd put on there, you might convince me it's useful. But as it is, I just can't think of any good reason to bloat the volume of pinned content people are forced to view every single login.
I was mildly in favor of adding a new message type, provided something that didn't make the eyes bleed could be found, but I don't really like this solution at all. I feel we've got enough induced scrolling as is. And I feel that this feature would be mostly used to obnoxious ends.
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"Many realms had hundreds of players" is more than a bit of an exaggeration.
IIRC, there have only ever been 2 realms in the game that even came close to 200 characters, Perdan and Sirion.
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"Many realms had hundreds of players" is more than a bit of an exaggeration.
IIRC, there have only ever been 2 realms in the game that even came close to 200 characters, Perdan and Sirion.
On EC yeah. Abington came pretty close. 183 characters in 2006.
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"Many realms had hundreds of players" is more than a bit of an exaggeration.
IIRC, there have only ever been 2 realms in the game that even came close to 200 characters, Perdan and Sirion.
I could have worded that better, I meant "over 100" more than "multiple hundreds". GX had, what, about 60? That's still a third of what some had, and half of what many had.
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I could have worded that better, I meant "over 100" more than "multiple hundreds". GX had, what, about 60? That's still a third of what some had, and half of what many had.
Except you're overlooking something. There may only be 60 players, but you forget that the past realms had the two character rule, meaning you could have 100 characters in the realm, but have less overall players than GX had at the 60 player mark. So basically multiply the current number by 2/3 and add it to the current total to see about what it would look like when Battlemaster was at its peak. GX would easily be near or over the 100 character mark. Plus I believe you're overstating greatly how many realms were over 100 characters. That may have been the case for realms such as Sirion, Perdan, and Cagilan Empire, but there are realms besides those that I doubt had so many people.
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Except you're overlooking something. There may only be 60 players, but you forget that the past realms had the two character rule, meaning you could have 100 characters in the realm, but have less overall players than GX had at the 60 player mark. So basically multiply the current number by 2/3 and add it to the current total to see about what it would look like when Battlemaster was at its peak. GX would easily be near or over the 100 character mark. Plus I believe you're overstating greatly how many realms were over 100 characters. That may have been the case for realms such as Sirion, Perdan, and Cagilan Empire, but there are realms besides those that I doubt had so many people.
Abington had at least 90 players. They once had 183 characters. I doubt everyone had 2 characters there either so probably had at least 120~130 players.
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Abington had at least 90 players. They once had 183 characters. I doubt everyone had 2 characters there either so probably had at least 120~130 players.
Abington is one realm out of how many? Just because it was memorable doesn't mean it was the norm.
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Which is kind of beyond the point... Sure, some of them stemmed from doubles... but not everyone had doubles in every realm. Noble caps were lower then, too. Plus, not everyone who had doubles had a mute. And there are certainly examples of greater numbers.
I still haven't seen a compelling reason as to *why* pinned instructions from the ruler are necessary? I did play in GX for a few weeks. It reminded me of the old days, and I wasn't even in those super populous realms to begin with. There might be more individual players per realm than many of those days, but the activity levels, frankly, aren't dissimilar. Just like then, you mostly have a handful who monopolize most of the chatter anyways.
Pinned messages are tiresome when non pertinent. I have a really, really hard time seeing what the ruler could possibly say that is pertinent enough to stuff in everyone's face every single login.
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Because let's not forget, GX isn't gonna be the only realm with any such new feature. And I would really suspect most would rather not have to constantly scroll through what is essentially a pinned equivalent of the never updated and rarely useful ruler bulletin.
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Because let's not forget, GX isn't gonna be the only realm with any such new feature. And I would really suspect most would rather not have to constantly scroll through what is essentially a pinned equivalent of the never updated and rarely useful ruler bulletin.
It would be the equivalent of one message, not really an amazing amount to scroll through even in a quiet realm. (I regularly have to go down the equivalent of several pages to get past all the turn stuff) So I am not quite sure where in the world you could possibly be coming from. Furthermore, you keep saying it would be another Ruler Bulletin, but I doubt that greatly. Ruler Bulletin is usually for stuff that you don't expect to have to change any time during your reign. This would be more for stuff that is relevant for a week or two, but you expect to change semi-regularly.
For example, you wouldn't put the unit settings for the army in the General's Bulletin would you? So then why would the Ruler put a tournament announcement or other such stuff in the Ruler Bulletin?
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Mostly I would use it for RP planning/status and other projects That I want to make sure the players see without beating them over the head with multiple messages. Things like "The SuchnSuch Rp will start on Sunday" Or "Talk to SonSo about your wiki" or anything else that comes to mind that might be a good way to invest players who might otherwise have skimmed through and missed it. Things that should be separate from military orders, yet are pertinent to the realm. I got the idea from "Message of the Day" (MoD) notifications one gets in mmo's if they are in a guild. Yes, we are talking about GX now, but I would love to see more realms get built back up to those kinds of numbers.
Investing new players has been a project of mine for some time now. The number one complaint I've had from new people that have left are feelings of being overwhelmed, unable to catch up or make heads or tails of situations they get dropped in the middle of. I and the other GX players have been fortunate to get a lot of people to stick around, but we have gained and lost over 30 accounts and I wonder how many we might have retained had we different tools to anchor them.
To that end, I find existing methods to be cumbersome and ineffective, and co'opting a marshal's standing orders would only add confusion.
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It would be the equivalent of one message, not really an amazing amount to scroll through even in a quiet realm. (I regularly have to go down the equivalent of several pages to get past all the turn stuff) So I am not quite sure where in the world you could possibly be coming from. Furthermore, you keep saying it would be another Ruler Bulletin, but I doubt that greatly. Ruler Bulletin is usually for stuff that you don't expect to have to change any time during your reign. This would be more for stuff that is relevant for a week or two, but you expect to change semi-regularly.
For example, you wouldn't put the unit settings for the army in the General's Bulletin would you? So then why would the Ruler put a tournament announcement or other such stuff in the Ruler Bulletin?
Are you kidding? I see unit settings in general bulletins all the frigging time. Maybe GX wouldn't use it as an extra ruler bulletin, maybe it would, regardless, wouldn't stop others from doing so.
Every hollow message is annoying when logging into with a cell. I don't mind too much on my computer, but on a cell... Tack on a destitute royal message the ruler put there forever ago and that's just a vanity disclaimer, to incredibly outdated marshal standing orders as isn't uncommon, to a few pinned messages you haven't gotten to reply to yet or just want to be able to contact someone with the hot dial... on a cell, it gets really long, really fast. And it pops back every. Single. Login.
Mostly I would use it for RP planning/status and other projects That I want to make sure the players see without beating them over the head with multiple messages. Things like "The SuchnSuch Rp will start on Sunday" Or "Talk to SonSo about your wiki" or anything else that comes to mind that might be a good way to invest players who might otherwise have skimmed through and missed it. Things that should be separate from military orders, yet are pertinent to the realm. I got the idea from "Message of the Day" (MoD) notifications one gets in mmo's if they are in a guild. Yes, we are talking about GX now, but I would love to see more realms get built back up to those kinds of numbers.
Investing new players has been a project of mine for some time now. The number one complaint I've had from new people that have left are feelings of being overwhelmed, unable to catch up or make heads or tails of situations they get dropped in the middle of. I and the other GX players have been fortunate to get a lot of people to stick around, but we have gained and lost over 30 accounts and I wonder how many we might have retained had we different tools to anchor them.
To that end, I find existing methods to be cumbersome and ineffective, and co'opting a marshal's standing orders would only add confusion.
Most people don't consult the ruler bulletin because most ruler bulletins are incredibly outdated and were never relevant to begin with.
For the things you mention, I honestly think the ruler bulletin would work quite fine. Every time you update it, the whole realm gets a notification. If you get your players used to looking there for such info, they'll get the habit of doing it.
Of course, people can get overwhelmed by these things in GX... imo, what you ask for isn't the solution, it's pretty much an extension of the cause. Everything is so centralized. It all seems to revolve about bringing everyone around the Xerarch. It's about those singular events that target masses. If it was all broken down into pieces, with groups instead of a singular whole, it would be much easier for participants to keep up. The more massive you make the events, the more people will just give up and skim through it at best, skip it entirely otherwise. Just like the ridiculous tournaments from back in the days. There comes a point where people shouldn't be expected to read it all, and that people should be able to get involved without needing to start binge reading hundreds of messages per day.
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Are you kidding? I see unit settings in general bulletins all the frigging time. Maybe GX wouldn't use it as an extra ruler bulletin, maybe it would, regardless, wouldn't stop others from doing so.
Every hollow message is annoying when logging into with a cell. I don't mind too much on my computer, but on a cell... Tack on a destitute royal message the ruler put there forever ago and that's just a vanity disclaimer, to incredibly outdated marshal standing orders as isn't uncommon, to a few pinned messages you haven't gotten to reply to yet or just want to be able to contact someone with the hot dial... on a cell, it gets really long, really fast. And it pops back every. Single. Login.
Most people don't consult the ruler bulletin because most ruler bulletins are incredibly outdated and were never relevant to begin with.
For the things you mention, I honestly think the ruler bulletin would work quite fine. Every time you update it, the whole realm gets a notification. If you get your players used to looking there for such info, they'll get the habit of doing it.
Of course, people can get overwhelmed by these things in GX... imo, what you ask for isn't the solution, it's pretty much an extension of the cause. Everything is so centralized. It all seems to revolve about bringing everyone around the Xerarch. It's about those singular events that target masses. If it was all broken down into pieces, with groups instead of a singular whole, it would be much easier for participants to keep up. The more massive you make the events, the more people will just give up and skim through it at best, skip it entirely otherwise. Just like the ridiculous tournaments from back in the days. There comes a point where people shouldn't be expected to read it all, and that people should be able to get involved without needing to start binge reading hundreds of messages per day.
Where !@#$ing hell do you see unit settings in a Generals Bulletin? As a person who has held that position, I can tell you that any General who does so and relies on people using that to have the right unit settings is criminally incompetent and should be protested out right away.
Honestly all the things you speak of are a textbook definition of how not to run a realm, and I feel like you're pulling this crap out of thin air.
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You've...never seen a General's Bulletin with "standard unit settings"?
That's what most Generals' Bulletins contained back in the day. Like, most of them in the game.
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You've...never seen a General's Bulletin with "standard unit settings"?
That's what most Generals' Bulletins contained back in the day. Like, most of them in the game.
No, no I haven't. Most Generals these days put that in the Standing Orders. You know, because people actually see it.
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I've certainly seem them and I've played more recently than Anaris and through most of Chenier's absence. I'd even bet that if someone were to poll every general's bulletin in the game, at least 1/3rd would have unit settings in them.
But I'm also curious. Would there be any interest in a setting to ignore notification messages, at your own peril?
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I've certainly seem them and I've played more recently than Anaris and through most of Chenier's absence. I'd even bet that if someone were to poll every general's bulletin in the game, at least 1/3rd would have unit settings in them.
But I'm also curious. Would there be any interest in a setting to ignore notification messages, at your own peril?
I used to do that. Standing settings when you fight monsters. Since you mostly use the same settings all the time against monsters, it is easy to do so. Plus usually what new nobles should to on it but I attached wiki pages to do that job since the space is limited. Now I put campaign goals to keep people informed.
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The general's bulletin is the only reliable means to convey unit settings (and other related info) outside of the army structure. Why would you want to do this outside of the army structure?
1) In some realms, there's never any need to change them. You'll change marshals 4 times before doing the slightest tweak to your formations.
2) When there are multiple armies, a centralized location for info can be handy, to avoid differences between armies.
3) And perhaps most importantly, because adding people to armies requires active participation from a lord, and sometimes, you'd rather new nobles be able to simply jump right in with the armies and use the right settings right away, instead of waiting for their lords to assign them to the right army.
I'm sure people have thought of other reasons.
I have no idea in what hole you play in, but I've seen unit settings in general bulletins more than half the time. Perhaps for a simple 4th reason) Generals tend to have no frigging idea what else to put in the damn thing.
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Then players in those realms could ask the ruler (IC or OOC) to move the info to the ruler bulletin if it's no longer critical. That's hardly a good argument against.