BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Zakilevo on September 30, 2016, 08:24:03 AM
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Looks like it will happen soon 8) Who is excited for the showdown?
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I'm quite looking forward to it, although more to what follows perhaps. I'll be late to the party anyway
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As a player in Westgard, I'm a little surprised to learn this at the forums.
My characters mind is obviously elsewhere, fighting monsters in his sleep.
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Well, Astrum has been getting ready for this war since the end of our little practice war with Luria Boreal. Months of work were put into this war. Hope this will be fun :D
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As a player in Westgard, I'm a little surprised to learn this at the forums.
My characters mind is obviously elsewhere, fighting monsters in his sleep.
Hemmings has preachedin Astrum (not allowed if you're not ESA or SA), He's called us liars, cowards, traitors... He even accused us of trying to stab him....
._. Does he not inform you of his chats with Astrum?
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A Hemmings causing trouble? Well I never! :P
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I don't think anyone in Westgard is excited. Nothing is going to happen but a gangbang between Astrum and monsters. Though its no big deal considering Astrum already ruined any big potential for fun/expansion for Westgard by slaughtering peasants in surrounding regions, pretty much making them unplayable due to the time it takes for them to repopulate.
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Repopulation isn't as slow as it used to. Look at Golden Farrow. Avernus stayed in the region for like a month and managed to increase its population by quite a lot. Usually regions stay depopulated due to monsters eating people and food. And yes... if you fight Astrum, you will most likely going to lose all peasants outside of Gelene Outskirt. But hey at least Hemmings will have fun watching his realm burn.
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You've been preparing for this war for months? Great. Westgard have been fighting constant, overbearing monster incursions for months. Have fun with your one sided war.
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It will definitely be one sided with Westgard getting completely destroyed. Going to be glorious XD.
Well we weren't really aiming for one realm in particular but we were getting ready to fight something for the past 3 months. It just happens that Aarn has pissed of Dragomir enough to make that something into Westgard. Maybe should have voted your ruler better?
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Really Astrum? You don't have ANYONE ELSE that you have beefs with? Oh, I don't know, the realm that maybe took Holy Caiyun from you, and isn't even a theocracy? Surely that's a better excuse to go to war.
But no, you have to pick the realm that has been struggling from the get-go...
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Really Astrum? You don't have ANYONE ELSE that you have beefs with? Oh, I don't know, the realm that maybe took Holy Caiyun from you, and isn't even a theocracy? Surely that's a better excuse to go to war.
But no, you have to pick the realm that has been struggling from the get-go...
Are you serious? XD You are planning to get yet another small realm killed?
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extremely poor form
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Have fun in the wilderness, Astrum.
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Don't lump the blame on Astrum. It's normal to declare wars.
The fact that you are ravaged by rogues and Astrum has it somewhat better because of sheer geography is not their fault.
But maybe this kind of wars will show the devs that their latest monster fix was a very bad idea.
I guess it's fair to remember that Dwilight is a test server. But maybe it's time to understand that no new feature should single out specific realms while having no influence on everyone else. We'll just keep gradually losing chunks of playerbase this way.
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Are you serious? XD You are planning to get yet another small realm killed?
I'm thinking you are confusing causation and correlation. Luria Boreal had 4 nobles, one of whom was a priest, and one of whom was completely silent save for the occasional protest. Did not even move. The likelihood of that realm surviving was near nil. I came far too long after for me to make much headway against what was already going on. Other than that, I'm hard-pressed to think of any other realm I've been a part of that's been killed. Helyg Derwyddon lost a war, but agreed to a peace where they gave away a few regions. Ones that they could hardly hold anyways. That's hardly dying. So please, tell me what realm I've been a part of that's been killed directly by my actions? Besides Luria Boreal, which was so far along that it wasn't likely for me to do anything about it anyways.
In fact, Westfold was allowed to be created thanks to an alliance between Luria Nova and Helyg Derwyddon, and the war we fought against Astrum. So if you're going to accuse me of destroying realms, lets not forget that I harbored many of the nobles who would create Westfold, acting as a direct contributor to that realm's birth and gifting them Cailyn.
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To nitpick the record a bit, I do recall your character insisting on Cailyn being given to HD. Particularly because I also remember Seoras specifically turning a blind eye to Westfold keeping Cailyn.
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To nitpick the record a bit, I do recall your character insisting on Cailyn being given to HD. Particularly because I also remember Seoras specifically turning a blind eye to Westfold keeping Cailyn.
Hold on, let me check the map...
Might have been Shomrak I traded and wanted Cailyn in return (Cailyn was originally owned by Astrum after the split up of Morek Empire). I still effectively gave them a better region in return for the other. (Swordfell has taken Shomrak in the current war, they don't originally own it)
I'm not sure when Cailyn became a part of HD, because it seems it wasn't when I was there now that you've corrected me. Did it go rogue at some point?
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Now that you mention it, Shomrak being part of some trade does sound right.
I don't recall exactly, I think it may have joined HD briefly as part of some revolt. I don't recall HD ever holding Cailyn for an extended time though.
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Now that you mention it, Shomrak being part of some trade does sound right.
I don't recall exactly, I think it may have joined HD briefly as part of some revolt. I don't recall HD ever holding Cailyn for an extended time though.
Yeah, Cailyn currently does now though.
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Well, Astrum has been getting ready for this war since the end of our little practice war with Luria Boreal. Months of work were put into this war. Hope this will be fun :D
I don't come to the forums anymore, but I kept getting these OOC messages in-game from various people that "Zakky" (didn't know who that was) "has it in for us" and is 100% going to have a war for no reason, so I felt as ruler of Westgard I owed it to my other players to see what was going on.
Can I just get this straight?
For months one of the dev team has been (partially) controlling the monster hordes that have been relentlessly hammering us and sometimes directing the takeovers of our regions. We know this for certain. 100%.
We were driven out of level 3 walls in Shrine of Seeklander, and twice out of level 2 walls in Eidulb Outskirts, and level 2 walls in Eidulb.
We repeatedly invited Astrum's General - another dev team member - to come fight with us, but instead they intentionally avoided our army (we can quote the letter) and rode around devastating bordering cities and townships so we couldn't build up.
After twice being driven out of Eidulb, while refitting, this other dev team member jumped into Eidulb and took it over - and the monsters just *poof* all disappeared! Oh, yes - there's been a trickle... like a small boy peeing. Nothing very threatening.
So now we have a situation where the dev team controls the monsters who are attacking us, and the dev team controls the army that is attacking us "because we were going to attack someone"
And when the monsters and Astrum are in the same region, they will band together to fight us.
Did I get that all right?
(For the record - Hemmings didn't "cause trouble". He - as ruler of his realm - said, "No, you can't loot our lands")
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BTW - not sure where you got the idea that the "population is growing back more easily now", but it's not.
It's completely !@#$ed.
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You got it. The monster controlling dev and I are on the same team and we will swiftly crush Westgard. You guys better ready to surrender because monsters will join forces with Astrum to overwhelm Westgard. You have no way to win this dude. You are taking on two devs. You can't win. Give up already.
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Are you serious?
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In Westgard, we think:
1) how completely !@#$ing inappropriate
2) how strange that the monster hordes have died down (we monitor that carefully in our part of the world)
3) we will win the war, if there's not to much "outside interference"
We're not concerned about the dev team launching monsters against us. We are concerned about how we were wiped out to nothing - but now you aren't. The "absence" of an obstacle for you that we've been fighting for months.
We're also concerned for you personally that you can't see the conflict of interest there, and that a dev team member wouldn't think that wiping out one of the most vibrant realms on Dwilight for no real reason kind of goes against the best interest of the game.
Yes, we are completely !@#$ing serious.
I go back into "Forum Retirement". See you on the battlefield.
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1) ?
2) They have? They've been hitting us for the past 4 days. 7k minimum. Not sure what you mean by them dying down but they obviously haven't.
3) You will? I have to disagree.
You are so wrong on so many levels I am not sure you can be convinced in any meaningful way. Do you even read what you write? If you think devs are toying with you why are you still playing? Do you honesty think devs are some teenagers who like to torment players to satisfy their inferiority complex or something? You are insulting people who are busy with their lives spending what little leisure time they have on this ancient game because they cherish the good moments they had years ago. Do you think Tom would put someone who would turn the game into their own play thing in charge? I am not sure what you are trying to get at here.
I am sorry but you are the one who is trying to get Westgard wiped. We waited and patiently prepared ourselves for 3 months because we had not enough nobles and hardly any infrastructure to even be any threat to Westgard. What have you done during that time? Throwing insults at Astrum's ruler, throwing empty threats, and lying about various things. And you think Westgard shouldn't be fighting a war?
So Westgard should get a special treatment because it has more nobles than other realms? Why should Westgard be spared from anything? Since Westgard was created by Anaris should it be treated like a special case? I am sorry but we are all playing the same game and I may feel terrible about fighting a realm Anaris created persoanlly, I won't treated it specially. That would be terribly unfair for players of Astrum who had to listen to your crap for the past 3 months. It is obvious this thread won't serve any purpose other than just fuel OoC hate at this point.
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"Don't like it? Get out" is the worst attitude you could come up with here.
The fellow has some valid points.
Players who quit the game after the rogue invasion in the west were not all petty whiners. They felt legitimately screwed by the devs because of unfair treatment.
The very same thing is now happening to frontier realms, ten times worse for Westgard because they were placed in the spot with no chokepoints.
This is a real issue and it sucks if all devs can answer to this is "just suck it up".
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Can I just get this straight?
For months one of the dev team has been (partially) controlling the monster hordes that have been relentlessly hammering us and sometimes directing the takeovers of our regions. We know this for certain. 100%.
And you're right!
But do you know what the purpose of that control has been?
It has been entirely aimed at redirecting monster hordes away from Westgard, to give the realm a fighting chance.
I haven't done it for at least a month or so, due to RL time sinks, though.
So...you're welcome.
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"Don't like it? Get out" is the worst attitude you could come up with here.
The fellow has some valid points.
Players who quit the game after the rogue invasion in the west were not all petty whiners. They felt legitimately screwed by the devs because of unfair treatment.
The very same thing is now happening to frontier realms, ten times worse for Westgard because they were placed in the spot with no chokepoints.
This is a real issue and it sucks if all devs can answer to this is "just suck it up".
Westgard has the peculiar distinction of being a realm that was created, by the dev team, with a singular purpose in mind: to be a frontier realm to fight a near-hopeless battle against the hordes of Western Dwilight. At no point in its existence has it not had to fight for its life against monsters.
That means that at no time has anyone been able to join Westgard without knowing that being a part of that realm means having to fight against monsters, all the time. Everyone there opted into that life.
That doesn't mean they aren't allowed to then opt out...but, frankly, I don't see a reasonable argument that opting out could be anything but leaving the realm. If you can present one to me that makes sense, I'm willing to listen, but I haven't been able to come up with one myself.
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Boys it's time to play nice again. Zakky,you know I well understand your position but try to realize that there are other 'frustrated' people on the other side and rephrase it a bit. This conversation is growing hostile due to many reasons and there's no need for that.
Noone you Know at the same time there is also no need to start throwing around random accusations against anyone at this point. Monsters have been this tough on anyone and they made an announcement that they would make it a bit more bearable. They've lowered the number of monsters you should be seeing and in the East they went a bit more extreme for those rogue regions/monsters which are not connected to the great waste of rogue. Which means that Arnor for instance should see about the same level of monsters and size of monsters as you do in Westgard. I'm not a fan of all dev decisions myself either, but there is no proof that they're targetting any realm specifically (not that the real devs that code and do anything don't even play the game aymore. Anaris hasn't for years I think and Vita quit a while ago) and it doesn't serve any good to start saying this. Westgard had it rough and it was supposed to be such. I was one of the players that saw its realm destroyed when they upped the monsters in the West but I understand that it had to be done, didn't make me more sad to see Barca disappear though. The devs however try to do what is best for the realm, generally speak to a lot of people but the problem is all those people have different opinions.
As to Westgard, in terms of full disclosure I'll end by saying that my char is one of those pushing for Westgard's destruction, the hardest prob. My char is the same one who got ESA accepted in Astrum, who's trying to turn Astrum on Arnor for the future and some other stuff, but also the destruction of Westgard. The reason he does so IC is due to his belief on the Bloodstars and the Bloodflow specifically which he'll come preaching in Westgard soon and to him faith is everything. That belief of faith is in part rooted in OOC as well in that we need more conflict between realms and currently the nobles are too widespread. Killing Westgard will force them to migrate East with a hatred towards Astrum. This is good as it lowers total density and thus the monsters, and it creates new opportunity for tension as Astrum is currently the strongest realm and will have made some new enemies. I don't have a desire to destroy nations, but in this case I think it would benefit the continent by densing population in the East and lowering a bit the monsters. I would even like to see a war on Madina someday in the future to push them up north towards Luria as well.
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Westgard has the peculiar distinction of being a realm that was created, by the dev team, with a singular purpose in mind: to be a frontier realm to fight a near-hopeless battle against the hordes of Western Dwilight. At no point in its existence has it not had to fight for its life against monsters.
Significant efforts have been made in Westgard to make the most of that from the start - the idea of the realm being a wall of light and civilization against the wilderness. Given its position, Westgard also has the peculiar distinction of never, ever, being short of battles. It will never be a realm that sinks into endless peace as it always has action on its doorstep.
There are significant numbers of players in the realm who enjoy the Player vs Environment gameplay (probably unique in the game). That doesn't mean that people don't get frustrated when they have 10,000k+ rogues bombarding them day-in, day-out, and start to feel demoralised and overwhelmed. But I think it's important to note that there is a proportion of players who enjoy the battle against the wilds that you get in Westgard when it's well balanced.
It has been entirely aimed at redirecting monster hordes away from Westgard, to give the realm a fighting chance.
I haven't done it for at least a month or so, due to RL time sinks, though.
Such efforts are appreciated and do help to make Westgard a good place to play. It's that old D&D Dungeon Master rule that you have to try to make adversaries challenging, but not crushing, to make things entertaining for the players.
Killing Westgard will force them to migrate East with a hatred towards Astrum. This is good as it lowers total density and thus the monsters, and it creates new opportunity for tension
That may or may not be the case. It's sort of the same rationale that was behind the big freeze (kill off places to force people to migrate), and that didn't entirely work. It's important to note that very many of the players in Westgard went there specifically because it was the realm that was created on Dwilight for the players who had to move characters there from islands that were closed. People went to westgard because they had the chance to create something new from scratch. That was part of the attraction and lured in players (like me) who had never played on Dwilight before. If Westgard is destroyed, players there may migrate to other realms or they may simply stop playing on Dwilight. Personally, I couldn't predict which way I'd go. The main things I enjoy about playing in Westgard in the West are things that I couldn't get elsewhere on Dwilight. More than likely, any OOC theory that's based around purposely killing of Westgard (or any realm) with the idea of forcing players to migrate to other realms is misguided.
The reason he does so IC is due to his belief on the Bloodstars and the Bloodflow specifically which he'll come preaching in Westgard soon and to him faith is everything.
The Bloodstars do have a presence in Westgard - you just have to look for it - and priests were invited to openly preach in the realm in the early days. Then, at some point, they simply gave up and disappeared. You have to remember that the nobles in Westgard were largely entirely new to Dwilight and had no knowledge of the Bloodstars or any other native religion. A priest of the Bloodstars came to the realm and started to teach the nobles about the religion. Then that stopped. From their perspective, priests stopped showing any interest in them.
However, from an OOC point of view, you have to wonder whether the West of Dwilight having different religious beliefs to the Bloodstars would make the place more interesting. On balance, it probably would.
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There are significant numbers of players in the realm who enjoy the Player vs Environment gameplay (probably unique in the game). That doesn't mean that people don't get frustrated when they have 10,000k+ rogues bombarding them day-in, day-out, and start to feel demoralised and overwhelmed.
Right: that's the kind of thing that was never truly intended to be more than a very rare occurrence, and it's a big part of the reason I started quietly intervening—as you note below, there's a difference between "challenge" and "unstoppable force."
But I think it's important to note that there is a proportion of players who enjoy the battle against the wilds that you get in Westgard when it's well balanced.
Good. That was, indeed, the hope and intention when we made Westgard.
More than likely, any OOC theory that's based around purposely killing of Westgard (or any realm) with the idea of forcing players to migrate to other realms is misguided.
I can assure you that no such theory has the support of the dev team.
However, from an OOC point of view, you have to wonder whether the West of Dwilight having different religious beliefs to the Bloodstars would make the place more interesting. On balance, it probably would.
That would definitely make Dwilight much more interesting.
Of course, there would need to be much more of "the West" than one constantly-beleaguered realm for it to have much of an effect. ;D
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You can't win. Give up already.
I would like to see that, certainly you are too sure of your army.
Bring 20k CS to the field every 3 days and i will consider Astrum a treat.
Less than that is what Westgard faces normally.
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I would like to see that, certainly you are too sure of your army.
Bring 20k CS to the field every 3 days and i will consider Astrum a treat.
Less than that is what Westgard faces normally.
I'm pretty sure he meant it a bit different than that and was sarcastic based on the rest of his message, but I suggest we change the tone of debate away from that and when I say 'suggest' I mean otherwise I have to get involved :(
As to the war, I am afraid this will be a losing battle for Westgard in my opinion. Astrum has a strong army and not as 'dumb' as the monster hordes of course. But at the same time Astrum will also be hit hard in Eidulb by monsters and must protect that city as well.
I'll reply somewhere tomorrow on the notion that the 'destruction of westgard is based on misguided believes'. I don't like destroying realms and I've been in enough which did fell (I mean as we speak Oligarch is still surrounded by 5 enemies which will soon crush it) but the truth of the matter is that we still occupy too much land on Dwilight to make it densed enough and entertaining. Fighting rogue can still be done in Arnor as they'll be facing the threats that Westgard now faces, as will some citys of the island states. We don't have as many nobles anymore as we used to have and one thing or another needs to change on Dwilight in my opinion. The dissolvement of the northern alliance is one of them and I'm working on that also IC, but I think the death of Westgard (and even Madina) would be another to push the nobles East.
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Why must war necessitate the destruction of one realm or another? Something must occupy the space. All things being equal between the rogues, a nice fair fight between human realms would actually be refreshing in Westgard. We are mostly irreligious though so if you are using religion as a motivator for war, I'm afraid it's just a contrivance. Push for war, fine, but don't make up excuses to destroy our realm. We've worked bloody hard at huge expense to keep it.
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Why must war necessitate the destruction of one realm or another? Something must occupy the space. All things being equal between the rogues, a nice fair fight between human realms would actually be refreshing in Westgard. We are mostly irreligious though so if you are using religion as a motivator for war, I'm afraid it's just a contrivance. Push for war, fine, but don't make up excuses to destroy our realm. We've worked bloody hard at huge expense to keep it.
Personally I think nothing should occupy the space Westgard occupies now and it would be better for Westgard to move East. The religion aspect I mentioned was my chars belief based on Seoras' teachings in ESA on the bloodflow which says that blood must flow to keep the world in balance. That blood must be from different sources, monsters, peasants, soldiers and nobles and thus it is crucial that men not only fight rogues but also each other. My char was in Barca when the big move from west to east happened and he thinks it's because of an imbalance in that bloodflow. Thus he will do all in his power to avoid it happening again and for men to fight each other the situations must be good. Right now nobles are simply spread too far apart.
To explain something concerning the monsters. The devs have explained in their updates that the higher the density of nobles vs occupied lands by realms is, the lower the spawn rate of monsters will be. So in other words, if the same amount of nobles occupy fewer lands (say westgard/madina move towards realms in the east) there will be fewer monster problems in general. On top of that the realms in the east would have more nobles actually making it possible again to fight wars. 5 nobles vs 5 nobles for instance is not really a way to fight a war. Based on those thoughts I came to the opinion that no realm should be in the West, not unless we get more players.
I agree with you fully that wars should generally not lead to the destructions of realms and throughout all my playing time you'll find that I've always advocated for realm survivals in almost all cases. As General in Sirion I wa among those very vocal about keeping Perdan alive for instance. Westgard, due to the situation on Dwilight is in this case an exception for me. I realize it is not fun to lose your realm (been there too many times and will prob soon be there again) but the current situation on Dwilight is less than idea. Player versus beast will continue, just on different borders (for that I think arnor will become perfect if you look at the map).
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The problem has been Westgard always grew towards monster hordes. You invited the hordes to come. And these weren't even that bad. I believe the monsters track food/peasants. Because of that, Eidulb was always a target, Gelene, Aquitain, all were huge targets. But you had your eyes fixed on the big names (Shrine, Eidulb) instead of growing north to Valkyrja and into Hvergelmir and eastern lands which did not have the same monster spawn rate. You never built a stable base.
All the gold in the game cannot overcome the monsters because gold is finite and monsters are not. It was a special sort of arrogance.
Ironically, I think looting the outlying regions helped you because the monsters are probably tracking south to Golden Farrow instead. Look at the RPs from Barret Erickson, there was a huge change in monster distribution. Looting the outlying lands and making them poor monster targets made them less likely to seek out rich targets like Gelene.
My character had IC reasons to not return to Gelene so sorry I couldn't help earlier but... You tried to new school an old school scenario. Didn't work.
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Well then, game on 8)
But I have a question and a remark,
Is it customary to announce a war in the forums before it happens IG? Sort of ruins the surprise and has many players react in character to information they don't actually possess IG.
I am one of those that probably won't go play on the east side of Dwilight. I've spent time and energy on the very basic tasks of figthing monsters. Although progress is nigh, it's where my history on Dwilight lies, and it's quite different from my two other characters. Not sure if I have the interest/time to restart in an environment much more alike EC and Beluaterra.
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Well then, game on 8)
But I have a question and a remark,
Is it customary to announce a war in the forums before it happens IG? Sort of ruins the surprise and has many players react in character to information they don't actually possess IG.
I am one of those that probably won't go play on the east side of Dwilight. I've spent time and energy on the very basic tasks of figthing monsters. Although progress is nigh, it's where my history on Dwilight lies, and it's quite different from my two other characters. Not sure if I have the interest/time to restart in an environment much more alike EC and Beluaterra.
You can still fight monsters in realms that border west Dwilight or a large chunk of rogue regions.
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Personally I think nothing should occupy the space Westgard occupies now and it would be better for Westgard to move East. The religion aspect I mentioned was my chars belief based on Seoras' teachings in ESA on the bloodflow which says that blood must flow to keep the world in balance. That blood must be from different sources, monsters, peasants, soldiers and nobles and thus it is crucial that men not only fight rogues but also each other. My char was in Barca when the big move from west to east happened and he thinks it's because of an imbalance in that bloodflow. Thus he will do all in his power to avoid it happening again and for men to fight each other the situations must be good. Right now nobles are simply spread too far apart.
To explain something concerning the monsters. The devs have explained in their updates that the higher the density of nobles vs occupied lands by realms is, the lower the spawn rate of monsters will be. So in other words, if the same amount of nobles occupy fewer lands (say westgard/madina move towards realms in the east) there will be fewer monster problems in general. On top of that the realms in the east would have more nobles actually making it possible again to fight wars. 5 nobles vs 5 nobles for instance is not really a way to fight a war. Based on those thoughts I came to the opinion that no realm should be in the West, not unless we get more players.
I agree with you fully that wars should generally not lead to the destructions of realms and throughout all my playing time you'll find that I've always advocated for realm survivals in almost all cases. As General in Sirion I wa among those very vocal about keeping Perdan alive for instance. Westgard, due to the situation on Dwilight is in this case an exception for me. I realize it is not fun to lose your realm (been there too many times and will prob soon be there again) but the current situation on Dwilight is less than idea. Player versus beast will continue, just on different borders (for that I think arnor will become perfect if you look at the map).
What you have to understand is that you can't control player density in the way you're describing. If you destroy realms to try to push players to migrate in certain directions to improve player density in certain parts of the map, it may work or it may not. All you can do is roll the dice and see how they fall. Players might move characters to other realms. Or they might choose not to play on Dwilight. That's what I meant when I said the theory that you can increase player density in other realms by destroying Westgard (or Madina, or anywhere else) is misguided. It strongly reminds me of what happened on FEI during the Big Freeze. The push it gave to players in freezing areas to move to other realms simply backfired and people left the island and didn't return. That led to the long, slow death of FEI rather than an increase in player density. The big lesson from the Big Freeze is that player density can't be controlled by trying to push people in certain directions.
On top of that the realms in the east would have more nobles actually making it possible again to fight wars. 5 nobles vs 5 nobles for instance is not really a way to fight a war. Based on those thoughts I came to the opinion that no realm should be in the West, not unless we get more players.
Aiming to destroy the most vibrant and energetic realm I've personally seen in the game for a few years to make dull less populated realms more interesting is an odd sort of logic. I do see what you're saying and where you're coming from with it. But it's still an unusual solution to the problem you see. A different solution would be for the players in the barely occupied realms to move to other realms, or to abandon their current realms and form a new, more densely populated realm between them. But, obviously, they must stay in those current realms because there's something about them that they like. As I say, you can't really hope to control where people will play.
You can still fight monsters in realms that border west Dwilight or a large chunk of rogue regions.
I suspect that won't fly with a number of players in Westgard.
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Honestly, if the goal is to densify the game by shrinking the available space to play in, just close down the current Dwilight map and start anew with a naturally smaller island. It's much less painful for the players than have them spend months trying to keep up a realm that is destined to die anyway.
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Honestly, if the goal is to densify the game by shrinking the available space to play in, just close down the current Dwilight map and start anew with a naturally smaller island. It's much less painful for the players than have them spend months trying to keep up a realm that is destined to die anyway.
As stated repeatedly over the years, new island is just not possible. No matter how small it is.
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How is it not possible? Literally every single other island is smaller than Dwilight. Just close down DW and move all the characters to FE. Smaller map, more manageable, no more slow painful psychological bleed for players who try to make functional realms only to be told, "no, sorry, you gotta move even more east, don't mind the fact that there is no more east to move to."
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How is it not possible? Literally every single other island is smaller than Dwilight. Just close down DW and move all the characters to FE. Smaller map, more manageable, no more slow painful psychological bleed for players who try to make functional realms only to be told, "no, sorry, you gotta move even more east, don't mind the fact that there is no more east to move to."
Because actually creating it at all requires a TON of effort.
Personally I think nothing should occupy the space Westgard occupies now and it would be better for Westgard to move East. The religion aspect I mentioned was my chars belief based on Seoras' teachings in ESA on the bloodflow which says that blood must flow to keep the world in balance. That blood must be from different sources, monsters, peasants, soldiers and nobles and thus it is crucial that men not only fight rogues but also each other. My char was in Barca when the big move from west to east happened and he thinks it's because of an imbalance in that bloodflow. Thus he will do all in his power to avoid it happening again and for men to fight each other the situations must be good. Right now nobles are simply spread too far apart.
To explain something concerning the monsters. The devs have explained in their updates that the higher the density of nobles vs occupied lands by realms is, the lower the spawn rate of monsters will be. So in other words, if the same amount of nobles occupy fewer lands (say westgard/madina move towards realms in the east) there will be fewer monster problems in general. On top of that the realms in the east would have more nobles actually making it possible again to fight wars. 5 nobles vs 5 nobles for instance is not really a way to fight a war. Based on those thoughts I came to the opinion that no realm should be in the West, not unless we get more players.
I agree with you fully that wars should generally not lead to the destructions of realms and throughout all my playing time you'll find that I've always advocated for realm survivals in almost all cases. As General in Sirion I wa among those very vocal about keeping Perdan alive for instance. Westgard, due to the situation on Dwilight is in this case an exception for me. I realize it is not fun to lose your realm (been there too many times and will prob soon be there again) but the current situation on Dwilight is less than idea. Player versus beast will continue, just on different borders (for that I think arnor will become perfect if you look at the map).
This doesn't work. It has never worked, and it is the most backwards !@#$ing thinking I could ever think of. The way to increase density has, barring recruitment of new players, always been to reduce the number of regions nobles control with the LEAST effect on player population. If you remove less densely populated areas, you don't tend to have the anger towards it because in all likelihood the realm was close to not being self-sufficient in the first place. If a realm has a density of 4-5 nobles per region, that's unheard of now a days. They're doing something right that we should pay attention to, and destroying that realm is an act of self-sabotage on our part. You should be focused on region totals, not redistributing nobles from high density areas to low density area. Its just much, MUCH easier to do. Much easier to reduce an overextended realm than to convince 30-40 players of the realm you've destroyed for NO good reason that they'd be better off playing elsewhere.
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I believe the monsters track food/peasants.
This is not the case.
At present, monsters drift toward realms of lower nobles-per-region density. They may pick a region to conquer and make a beeline for that, but when they do so it will be at random.
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Player density of all realms based on number of nobles compared to number of regions, from highest to lowest:
Avernus 6.0
Westgard 5.6
Westfold 3.2
D'Hara 2.5
Astrum 2.0
Swordfell 1.9
Luria Nova 1.8
Fissoa 1.5
Madina 1.3
Arnor 1.1
Helyg Derwyddon 0.8
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As to the war, I am afraid this will be a losing battle for Westgard in my opinion. Astrum has a strong army and not as 'dumb' as the monster hordes of course. But at the same time Astrum will also be hit hard in Eidulb by monsters and must protect that city as well.
Westgard only has a city now, you should understand more than anyone what is to defend a city from multiple enemies. It doesn't matter the forces Astrum brings, they should have the financial and recruitment power to overwhelm Westgard in open field battles (most of times), but as One Single Realm, they cant win a battle with Westgard defending Gelene Outskirts much less Gelene City. So the words "destroying Westgard" is out of context.
Westgard had face hordes of monsters running in the 35K+ CS, they have lose all but two regions multiple times, and once left with Gelene alone. So everyone in Westgard will enjoy tea while Astrum travels, fight monsters attacks a defensive location, go back refit fighting more undeads on their way back, more time traveling back, recruit, and repeat.
In fact, i am amazed the monsters haven't given up on Westgard by now, thanks the devs. for such devoted adversary.
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In fact, i am amazed the monsters haven't given up on Westgard by now
They like the taste of our peasants too much ;)
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...I think it's also worth noting that once Westgard can take Ygg d'Razhuul, that will cut off the rogue regions between there and Arnor from the main body of rogue regions in the west.
That will make all monsters in those regions "dumb," and spawns there weaker.
Thus, Westgard can literally act as a shield for the realms of the east, and wiping them out will do you all a disservice.
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...I think it's also worth noting that once Westgard can take Ygg d'Razhuul, that will cut off the rogue regions between there and Arnor from the main body of rogue regions in the west.
That will make all monsters in those regions "dumb," and spawns there weaker.
Thus, Westgard can literally act as a shield for the realms of the east, and wiping them out will do you all a disservice.
As I myself have mentioned IC in a roundabout way. My character basically is of the mindset "unless Astrum is able to protect the same area they currently do, Astrum is doing something stupid, selfish, and shortsighted"
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And now somebody is bringing forum knowledge over to the game. I wonder who... Do please learn to separate IC and OoC please.
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But wasn't Forums labeled as IC before?
i cant recall when or where but i remember it was stated that forums was IC.
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Umm No. It was stated before that nobody should post anything related IG stuff -usually letters- here. Guess most of here forgot about that rule. Forum is strictly OoC. You don't take stuff from here and post back in the game. That is a big no no.
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Maybe it was part of Atamara's Madness then.... ;D ;D ;D
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Forums is OOC.
Whoever told you it was IC was wrong and was probably unknowingly defying the rules.
Here is the link to the forum rules:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5167.0.html
The forum is for discussing things about the game. In-game matters should only be discussed in the game.
Do not post in-game messages on the forum, other than posting your own Roleplays on the Roleplay board, or when appropriate as part of a Magistrate case. Players may post the roleplayed death of their character on the Roleplay boards without sending it in-game, since they cannot post it in-game.
All Forum discussion is Out of Character.
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I understand, maybe i got confused with the Role-play Forums's section.
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Regarding this situation, I don't see why Westgard can be okay with their ruler spewing aggressive garbage on the rulers channel for MONTHS and then be so surprised about the logical consequences. Having had to read the copy-pasted messages for so long in my character's feed, I don't really have a ton of sympathy.
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Well, it hardly matters now what our ruler did or didn't do. At least life with a Hemmings at the helm is never boring.
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Part of the issue was very calculated distribution of "facts" to the realm from the crown, when they were given at all. We were treated like mushrooms and not privy to higher/realm/royal discussions, even in the council.
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Well there you have it. With Hemmings gone, Westgard became a sane realm willing to actually cooperate. Looks like Westgard and Astrum will work on being friends again.