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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: ill-will on January 05, 2017, 12:26:28 AM
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let me get this straight as a sandalakian..
we didn't get many new nobles compared to what ikalak and taselak were fielding against us, both realms were banging us without any conflict against the other..
had people like puff and sofia de lancelot who screwed over the regions they were in by causing massive morale loss...
and now with your latest dev message was essentially we're to sit and wait till what?
we can't recruit, we can't cash bonds, can't join another realm..? we can't do squat...
Thanks but War Island was the last remaining island i was actually having fun on..
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You can still join other realms by deleting your current character and creating a new one.
Why? Because only winners get to keep their characters. Once your realm dies you are considered a loser.
It is a way to limit the number of characters that will enjoy the benefit of winners for the next round.
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Why should we care so much about who wins? It should be mostly bragging rights anyways, and the focus should be more on fun. The way any proper game should be.
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Make a new character.
Simple.
Problem solved.
Regarding the lack of conflict between Taselak and Ikalak, well... it just didn't happen.
Taselak was more interested in fortifying while Ikalak attacked Sandalak.
And when Taselak and Sandalak was fighting, Ikalak was doing other things.
In the end, they just didn't fight each other. There were no messages between the two realms... so like... What? You want to start forcing people to do things? Nobody broke the rules, nobody defied the game boundaries. It was quite literally the fact that Ikalak and Taselak found more interest in fighting Sandalak for some reason.
To force two sides to fight would probably seem like an easy fix, but then it's no longer war island... there's no more freedom. The game quite literally turns into, "Which side has the most nobles."
People in Sandalak refused to delete their characters like was intended, and so, they are stuck waiting.
That is purely the player's doing.
Your character has lost, you are not allowed to keep it if you want to do more than just sit idle. That is the cost of losing.
Ensures the rewards go to intended targets. Reduces risk of spies. Makes Honour more valuable. More roleplay potential, winners can quite literally say, "We killed them all." Because, that's the way it's supposed to be.
The people of Ikalak are actually having a nice bit of fun, we have a goofy roleplay going on, we're all basically drunk.
Please do not hate us, if we let you live, well... both Sandalak and Taselak would have jumped Ikalak. So, the strategy was, knock out one first!
Bam, look at that, now Ikalak won't get jumped.
In the end, somebody has to lose. We all want to ensure that we win, but again, someone has to lose. There is a lot of confusion happening right now, but that is only temporary. Whether or not you continue to play is your choice, but in the end, just remember that the only thing the Titans are making you do is make a new character.
More importantly, you were forced back because you tried to break past the game boundaries.
I am sorry you had the misfortune of having to deal with a few troubled characters, your judge should have truthfully banned them, and if he/she didnt, you should have protested whoever needed to be protested to ensure it happened. I am not against your rant, we all need to rant! It helps the Titans improve when they hear your frustration.
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You can still join other realms by deleting your current character and creating a new one.
Why? Because only winners get to keep their characters. Once your realm dies you are considered a loser.
It is a way to limit the number of characters that will enjoy the benefit of winners for the next round.
It's complete semantics - delete your character and make a new one in the realm that you aren't allowed to join your old character to? - how ridiculous is that?
- There is some concern that people will just join what they see as the likely winning side... this may be true but isn't changed by draconian rule making - if people want to join the proposed winning side they will with a different character - or worse still a respawned same character name...
This version of war Island has been overly ruled from day one - its a game which is supposed to be fun not a police state lol - too many rules and too much interference from outside the actual playing of the game is what leads to dis-satisfaction and this type of thread and the whole idea that there is an alternative agenda to what has been happening.
Day one should have dawned with either no carry forwards at all or people distributed evenly based on numbers... it will always be a bugbear that Ikalak started out with 20% more nobles than the other 2 - noble count is always going to be the biggest influencing factor of all and please don't pretend you don't know that.
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It's complete semantics - delete your character and make a new one in the realm that you aren't allowed to join your old character to? - how ridiculous is that?
The problem is, your current character Jane Fletcher survived the last war island as a reward. You won the island so you were allowed to keep your character. Unfortunately, Taselakians were allowed to keep their characters as well. That is why this new rule appeared to prevent the situation repeating itself.
For this island, only the people who bring victory to their original realm will get to keep their characters. Think of it this way. Upon your defeat, Ikalakians are on the hunt to kill all remaining nobility of Sandalak. Nobody is stopping anyone from creating a new character. The issue is, people wanting to keep their old character despite losing.
Yes, it is frustrating for losers to lose their characters but how is it fair to players of previous iteration who lost their characters for losing? It is just happening in the middle instead at the end for this iteration. Wish this was made more clear at the beginning since it seems people take it as a slap in the face but that will be the rule going forward.
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For the next war island, maybe once a realm loses its capital, the realm should get immediately destroyed along with all its members turning into rogue. If a battle occurs, rogue characters should die from any hit. If they get imprisoned, immediate executions probably.
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it will always be a bugbear that Ikalak started out with 20% more nobles than the other 2 - noble count is always going to be the biggest influencing factor of all and please don't pretend you don't know that.
And there are 31 new players (not counting the 3 new characters of ex-sandalak players) who joined Ikalak, of their own free choice, compared to the 20 who started in Ikalak as victors of the previous round. There were more characters started of their own free choice than were randomly distributed victors.
We strove to balance the realms as best as possible with various measurements and if it wasn't noble count being complained about, someone would complain about some other metric not being exactly equal between realms. No matter how the victors are redistributed, we won't be able to achieve 100% equality between each realm.
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The problem is, your current character Jane Fletcher survived the last war island as a reward. You won the island so you were allowed to keep your character. Unfortunately, Taselakians were allowed to keep their characters as well. That is why this new rule appeared to prevent the situation repeating itself.
For this island, only the people who bring victory to their original realm will get to keep their characters. Think of it this way. Upon your defeat, Ikalakians are on the hunt to kill all remaining nobility of Sandalak. Nobody is stopping anyone from creating a new character. The issue is, people wanting to keep their old character despite losing.
Yes, it is frustrating for losers to lose their characters but how is it fair to players of previous iteration who lost their characters for losing? It is just happening in the middle instead at the end for this iteration. Wish this was made more clear at the beginning since it seems people take it as a slap in the face but that will be the rule going forward.
It doesn't bother me a jot Taselak nobles were carried forward from last island. It wouldn't have bothered me if ikalak nobles went forward from the last island too. ( Except Nuumbarra lol) were there complaints about that - if there were I didn't clock them.
As to the reward system the devs made clear in their list who was original and who were new additions etc also.
I'd sooner have seen everyone die in the volcano than the mess that there is now with good players leaving the game completely because they feel so aggrieved.
And you're right there is a lot of stuff should have been made a lot more clear at the start .
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And there are 31 new players (not counting the 3 new characters of ex-sandalak players) who joined Ikalak, of their own free choice, compared to the 20 who started in Ikalak as victors of the previous round. There were more characters started of their own free choice than were randomly distributed victors.
We strove to balance the realms as best as possible with various measurements and if it wasn't noble count being complained about, someone would complain about some other metric not being exactly equal between realms. No matter how the victors are redistributed, we won't be able to achieve 100% equality between each realm.
Have to disagree Vita. Noble count is the single most important factor in any realm. And Ikalak started with 25. It was the other two who were 21 and 20 respectively. Most other concerns would have been way less obvious as a distinction to other players - gold would have balanced within a couple of tax days... I don't know what the issue was for you with gold.
Think of it this way. If nobody else had come to play the war island other than those reallocated from the first. Which realm had the best options of victory...? anybody can see the realm with the most nobles has the highest chance of winning.
If you were concerned about gold surely the sensible option was to give everyone - say 500 gold to start and leave it at that.
And of the new I would be unsurprised if the majority were not the same families that JeVondair has managed to get playing in Xavax... He's a a tour de force on recruitment recently and good on him for that. But regardless the tilt was wrong from the start and if you are truly honest with yourself you know that.
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So what would you suggest we do? Lock the War Island at absolute parity in noble count? Prevent it from starting if there aren't absolutely equal noble counts in all 3 realms, and declare it over as soon as one realm has an advantage over the other two, because of course they won't be able to win now that it has more nobles!
Strategy is meaningless.
Leadership has no influence whatsoever.
The only factor that affects your chances of winning on the War Island is noble count.
Right?
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Don't be silly, sarcasm is unnecessary.
The way an island develops is organic. The way it starts is controlled. The start should be even with regard to factors that can be controlled. Noble count is the most important factor and should have been even.
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Don't be silly, sarcasm is unnecessary.
The way an island develops is organic. The way it starts is controlled. The start should be even with regard to factors that can be controlled. Noble count is the most important factor and should have been even.
Noble count is potential power, but to gain that potential power, you need gold. More people means less gold to go around. Longer refit times, more careful planning required to ensure everyone moves.
Etc.
Noble count is not everything. There's a lot about war on BM I believe you do not understand. It is more than just "March and kill." The battle is only a single step after many.
You are frustrated, I understand.
However, your argument is, "I have been inconvenienced, I want my character to live." That is the very basis behind most of the complaints, "Why should I have to do this?"
"I don't want to do it."
There are no semantics, the logic is clear. I will put the equation for you to simply see:
Lose = Character Dies
Win = Character Lives
Character Dies + Character Lives = More specific group of victors.
More specific group of victors = More justified/Satisfying reward for victors
Why is everyone else to blame, about the mess that happened in Sandalak? You had Generals who didn't understand what they were doing, a judge who didn't do his job. Nobles that had no unity.
That is a lot of frustration BEFORE your realm was defeated.
To hate the devs for enforcing rules stated at the beginning is truthfully unfair. They made it as balanced as they could, (I am sure they added many numbers to distribute things as well as possible.), The rest was quite literally up to the realms.
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I don't know if you are being deliberately inflammatory Victor but I must assume you aren't. I know very well what BM is and have played long enough to know about little things like strategy.
I was not angry. I am not angry but your words are pushing my buttons now.
The game is a game and it is what it is. But this incarnation if war island has been a mess because it has been overly policed we need to learn from that.
Your words about noble count and gold availability are also completely moot. We had 5 regions a piece to start with that is ample to give 25 nobles an income. As to ongoing gold with more nobles your potential to take over regions more quickly is higher too.
Refrain from telling me what you think and how I feel because you really are off the mark and don't know. Answer my points if you want to but I would appreciate you keeping your answers to what is said rather than what you have decided to infer.
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Noble count is potential power, but to gain that potential power, you need gold. More people means less gold to go around. Longer refit times, more careful planning required to ensure everyone moves.
Etc.
Noble count is not everything. There's a lot about war on BM I believe you do not understand. It is more than just "March and kill." The battle is only a single step after many.
You are frustrated, I understand.
However, your argument is, "I have been inconvenienced, I want my character to live." That is the very basis behind most of the complaints, "Why should I have to do this?"
"I don't want to do it."
There are no semantics, the logic is clear. I will put the equation for you to simply see:
Lose = Character Dies
Win = Character Lives
Character Dies + Character Lives = More specific group of victors.
More specific group of victors = More justified/Satisfying reward for victors
Why is everyone else to blame, about the mess that happened in Sandalak? You had Generals who didn't understand what they were doing, a judge who didn't do his job. Nobles that had no unity.
That is a lot of frustration BEFORE your realm was defeated.
To hate the devs for enforcing rules stated at the beginning is truthfully unfair. They made it as balanced as they could, (I am sure they added many numbers to distribute things as well as possible.), The rest was quite literally up to the realms.
Except I would argue that new nobles on War Island shouldn't have a choice in realm. Make sure that noble numbers are even. People don't scapegoat so much if the loss was purely on merit. This wasn't the case. In addition, War Island is the last place I would put up a "not enough gold for the nobles" argument. The concentration of gold there approaches East Island levels of obscene, if not overtaking it.
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I don't know if you are being deliberately inflammatory Victor but I must assume you aren't. I know very well what BM is and have played long enough to know about little things like strategy.
I was not angry. I am not angry but your words are pushing my buttons now.
The game is a game and it is what it is. But this incarnation if war island has been a mess because it has been overly policed we need to learn from that.
Your words about noble count and gold availability are also completely moot. We had 5 regions a piece to start with that is ample to give 25 nobles an income. As to ongoing gold with more nobles your potential to take over regions more quickly is higher too.
Refrain from telling me what you think and how I feel because you really are off the mark and don't know. Answer my points if you want to but I would appreciate you keeping your answers to what is said rather than what you have decided to infer.
I apologize, my words are not meant to anger.
Everyone did indeed start with the same amount of regions, but we did not all start with the same amount of gold, potential gold, honour and production in regions etc.
You see, I am the General of Ikalak, and I in fact did quite a bit of adding by looking at basically ALL the regions,adding their gold and food together. I even added the base production for starting regions on all the realms. Defining choke points, what was vital, what was the likely route the realm would take if it went a certain way... etc.
Ikalak started with a slightly richer city than Taselak and Sandalak, but both of them had all these insanely rich regions sitting next to them to capture... like 800 gold productions, while Ikalak only had... well 500 gold production regions around. Which is why Ikalak basically said, "WE'RE GONNA DIE!" and ignored all surrounding regions to steal Sandalak's gold production region. Which... to my shock... Sandalak completely ignored. (We then wall off the land from the gold producer through Triewa) Ikalak was in a position where Sandalak and Taselak would have at least over 1000 more gold, give or take.
My point being, I spent a lot of time analyzing you and Taselak. I know a bit, but not the whole picture. I'd like to know more of course, it'll help me understand as well as other. I am sure I am wrong about some things and I can't know I'm wrong unless you tell me.
Anyway,
Everything did not start even, slight advantages were given to realms as well as disadvantages. Ikalak likely had a fair amount of gold production, but, started with low gold and low gold potential... Causing us to send more than half our nobles into one region just to capture it. We might have sent all our nobles actually... hard to remember, so long ago.. many different plans in-between. *Cough*Plus I have an insanely pokey ruler that hogs all the gold and gets mad at me because I have to tell him we need it. He REFUSED to draft as well, stalling us further.*Cough* (Don't hurt me if you read this ^^)(Yah, we didn't spend all that time in the north doing nothing, I was having a power struggle with my ruler)
My battleplan with Sandalak was to strain them on gold and recruits, which appeared to work, you no longer were recuiting many skilled soldiers, reducing most of your range to 3 (2 at one point). All the battles were aimed at making you lose WELL more men than Ikalak did (which was a pain, because we didn't have healers placed efficiently for a time). Which ended in you not being able to field an army that could effectively match us. Give or take a few mistakes that your troops made as well as ours. Your Marshals actually began just using Marshal Settings as well.
Except I would argue that new nobles on War Island shouldn't have a choice in realm. Make sure that noble numbers are even. People don't scapegoat so much if the loss was purely on merit. This wasn't the case. In addition, War Island is the last place I would put up a "not enough gold for the nobles" argument. The concentration of gold there approaches East Island levels of obscene, if not overtaking it.
I see what you mean, but we also have to consider honour and such. It could end in the scenario where we have a realm with like, a bunch of people with 200 honour, and the another with low honours. That would TRULY be a nightmare, imagine having to fight like 25, 250 man units with 25, 90 man units. We could probably reset the honour values, but then the victors kinda suffer a bit... one of the nice feeling of having a character didn't die is that your units can now be bigger.
Gold advantage is an important thing in the War island, quite ironically. More Gold = Better troops. More importantly, highly skilled troops cost more.
Ikalak has a lot of nice RCs, but dayum, they're expensive.