BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: JeVondair on April 23, 2017, 03:56:55 PM
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I know that traditionally Dwilight was the island of singletons, but I feel that given it's current density, it could benefit by having players double up. Even with the island cut in half, there is a lot of empty space out there. Was curious to see what folks thought.
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No. Monsters need to take more human-held lands.
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No island allows this now. We're sure as hell not going to enable it on the only island that has never been corrupted by it.
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No. Monsters need to take more human-held lands.
"The NPCs need to beat the players"
yikes
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To increase density to a sustainable level. Alternatively, one can attempt to get more players with nobles on the island.
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To increase density to a sustainable level. Alternatively, one can attempt to get more players with nobles on the island.
True. Apparently Dwilight is much more fun for commoners than it is for nobles.
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What Dwilight needs is for a realm or two to die. Maybe three. It's filled with pathetic realms that don't do anything.
The North-East in general seems dynamic to me, but south of Swordfell...?
I mean, D'Hara had been expanding into ex-Lurian regions, and now seems somewhat surprised that, with its low density, establishing a foothold onto the West is hard. I mean, I get wanting to take Paisly, I totally consider it to be part of D'Haran core and I'd want it too if I was there. But D'Hara expanded all the way to Mattan Dews... the distance between both is huge. Can't have it all.
Same for Madina. Density is even lower, and keeps trying to expand. Again, I totally get it and I'd do the same, those western regions offer extra buffer to protect the rest. But everyone knows by now that low density both spawns and attracts more rogues.
Fissoa doesn't even have 1 noble per region...
Meanwhile, Luria. Honestly makes me laugh. They are expanding their desnity away, and none of their neighbors seem to care. I'd be laughing my ass off if I was in Luria. The increasingly lower density increases monster spawns more and more, but since they are more isolated, those monsters are much more likely to hit D'Hara, Madina, Astrum, and Westgard than they are to ever pose a significant threat to them. They are basically waging a proxy war on D'Hara by doing nothing else than expanding.
The South needs to wake up. Densities govern rogue spawns. If you want to expand without having a ton of rogues build up on your border... attack another human realm! Either to expand in that direction, or just to bring those regions rogue. Instead, you've got a bunch of boring realms complaining about boring results from their boring actions.
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I have an idea...but it's convoluted and I wouldn't want to give away anything if it actually did happen. I'll message Vita soonish.
I'm not a fan of multiple characters on dwilight, though. It's a unique wilderness and almost has a feel for it's roots.
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What Dwilight needs is for a realm or two to die. Maybe three. It's filled with pathetic realms that don't do anything.
The North-East in general seems dynamic to me, but south of Swordfell...?
I mean, D'Hara had been expanding into ex-Lurian regions, and now seems somewhat surprised that, with its low density, establishing a foothold onto the West is hard. I mean, I get wanting to take Paisly, I totally consider it to be part of D'Haran core and I'd want it too if I was there. But D'Hara expanded all the way to Mattan Dews... the distance between both is huge. Can't have it all.
Same for Madina. Density is even lower, and keeps trying to expand. Again, I totally get it and I'd do the same, those western regions offer extra buffer to protect the rest. But everyone knows by now that low density both spawns and attracts more rogues.
Fissoa doesn't even have 1 noble per region...
Meanwhile, Luria. Honestly makes me laugh. They are expanding their desnity away, and none of their neighbors seem to care. I'd be laughing my ass off if I was in Luria. The increasingly lower density increases monster spawns more and more, but since they are more isolated, those monsters are much more likely to hit D'Hara, Madina, Astrum, and Westgard than they are to ever pose a significant threat to them. They are basically waging a proxy war on D'Hara by doing nothing else than expanding.
The South needs to wake up. Densities govern rogue spawns. If you want to expand without having a ton of rogues build up on your border... attack another human realm! Either to expand in that direction, or just to bring those regions rogue. Instead, you've got a bunch of boring realms complaining about boring results from their boring actions.
I agree that ideally low player density realms should stop to expand, shrink or die.
But the current mechanics will never motivate realms to stop expanding or even become smaller.
First of all there might be different theories in game about the waxing and waning of the number of rogues attacking and also lots of players not knowing this mechanic.
And if characters would know what causes more rogues to appear, I believe it isn't all a direct cause and effect relation.
Because to many other realms have influence on the total outcome, it might not do any good to an individual realm to decide to stop expanding.
Some other realm might take those regions your no longer expanding to or any other region and total density wouldn't increase.
It seems better to expand as an individual realm and hope, ask, or demand others to stop expanding instead, especially if the realm in question is a western realm facing most of the attacks.
But its very unlikely the other realms would do once asked or demanded to.
Expanding for western realms means more resources and better buffers to protect the other regions.
I vaguely remember that the rogues target lower density realms, but in reality there will just be more rogues in total that, no matter where they are heading will usually have to go threw the western realms any way.
A more direct mechanic for punishing or rewarding low or high density would work far better to motivate players and characters.
If it has to involve rogues then the best thing i can make up right now is increasing the chance of rogues forming in a realm held region based on player density and base their group numbers on the current military strength or total amount of nobles of that realm.
Perhaps the rogue groups could also have the realm they spawn in as a target to prevent them from getting to far away from the targeted realm.
These mechanics once implemented could slowly start working for realms to get used to it, instead of having 10 K rogue armies spawn up everywhere out of the blue.
Giving the realms a chance to prepare.
All the mechanics for this are already in place if i am not mistaken.
This option gives realms an opportunity to fight allot and sort of influence which regions will be lost and which not by choosing where and when to attack/defend and or which regions to take back by a TO.
Has this option ever been considered?
However the current mechanics might still work to reduce the amount of regions held by realms in theory.
All it requires is the rogues to be more in numbers, and or taking better routes.
But any changes wont be player driven, just based on what the rogue do and how successful they are at it.
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urgh, I was actually baited, taunted in a sense to respond here. Not directly but I allowed my personal feelings be influenced. I'll not avoid the point or person so yeah. After reading Chenier's post I cannot escape an entire, ancient and thus longstanding spewing of bile. Perceived or otherwise. Chenier, you keep badgering, belittling, reducing, fill in the blanks, the southern side of Dwilight.
You event quit the Island, left D'hara (which is a neighbor of Luria and when you return, try to bash that same area once more?
How is Madina doing anything different from the Realm you are currently playing in (Westgard)? It isn't. When was the last time you or anyone else read about a serious, if any monster / undead uprising in Luria or the south for that matter. Excluding the western side of the map. You can't. One comment in this thread suggested that the game is more fun for Commoners than Nobles, personally I disagree but at the same time I have put a lot of effort in making the Advy game fun. As a result, monsters aren't much of a problem.
If any realm is to face death by monsters is Westgard. I think you know that. My request to you, Chenier, would be to cease your seeming endless but more important vocal dislike of the south and Luria, or Fissoa or Madina or even D'hara for that matter. It's fine that you don't like it but please, moderate yourself and don't bash for the sake of bashing.
We all play this game and we all (technically) should strive for the improvement and sharing of enjoyment. How about it?
To everyone else, apologies for my confrontational stance in this. Take this as me venting and throwing out some frustration. Hopefully it can be viewed as something useful or as a sign.
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What is Westgard doing different than Madina? Well, how about keeping a few dozen people active, and continuously attracting nobles from other realms, Madina among others, who tell us of how bad things are over there?
And yea, I quit the game when I was in D'Hara. Because D'Hara is part of the South, and at this point has been doing the same kind of thing Madina and Fissoa has for ages. Not as long as you have, but still very long. D'Hara can at least claim to have done things of its own a few times in its history, unlike Madina and Fissoa, but even those things were done by people who have long left D'Hara, and none who are there now ever did anything worthwhile. Same for Luria, it gets credit for having, at least once upon a time, done meaningful stuff. I don't know enough about Lurian internal politics nowadays to know if the "south of this realms suck" line should be drawn above or below Luria, but it's around there for sure.
Westfold, Swordfell, Morek, and HD have all been involved in various wars. Astrum got somewhat involved in them. Astrum, Morek, Arnor, and Avernus are active in the West. Every realm north of Luria DOES THINGS. Things that not only resonate within their borders, but beyond them as well.
I do not, have never, and will never like realms that don't *do* anything. BM has no room for isolationism. The only realm I've seen pulling off a *fun* isolationism is Melhed, ages ago, under consul Aldo. But that was... intense, to say the least. And completely atypical. And no realm that tried to go isolationist has ever come even remotely close to what was done there.
The monster presence on Dwilight is fine. If there's "too much" of them, it's because there are "too many" regions held by realms that do absolutely nothing with them, and thus simply sap from global density without bringing anything to the continental experience in return.
You'd just need to remove one realm from Dwilight and none of the remaining western realms would have to really concern themselves with the hordes. Any southern realm that wants a break from the monster just needs to do just this: get off your asses, get yourself some allies, and go gank a realm. You'll finally get to boast about doing something, and you'll reduce the monster spawns.
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The problem those realms have specifically is the geography mostly, mixed with the current player density/lack of activity in general.
The problem with Dwilight in general is the west, entirely. It's been over a year now I believe, so I think it's fair to make an assessment.
The west should have never been reopened.
Westgard has added nothing to the play experience of other realms except to be a base for pve raids. No offense to that realm. It is not the fault of the players. I am sure it is a good realm and fun to play in if you like pve.
The problem is that unlike the addition of Alara, MN, and the red bird realm in East continent, Westgard does not add any tension to the continent.
Opening the west and especially allowing the monster hordes to cross east via sea does not add tension either, it in fact relieves it by providing a massive pve/looting playground to the west and a common pve enemy for many realms to focus on.
If it wasn't for Westfold there probably wouldn't be any wars in Dwilight that aren't small realm bullying like Astrum/Morek vs. HD.
Dwilight has become a bad version of Beluaterra with more sailing and less story.
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I would note that Melhed under Consul Aldo was militarily isolationist, but not politically isolationist. It still engaged its neighbours, just not with armies.
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Everything in Dwilight seems so far away from each other. Lots of empty space between capitals. It's no one's fault that dynamism seems hard to maintain.
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I think it is a matter of finding ways to buddy up more. Interactions are what make a world feel 'filled up'. More and better ways/styles for people to interact. What I always found fun was roaming with a bored/frustrated character. Those little isolated pockets of realms are interesting. Dunno about now, but early Swordfell was a hoot with like....7 characters there and almost no interaction with the world but "we cool bro". When it got old or stale...go join a foreign war for a bit. Things being far apart, you have to kind of go look for stuff to do.
Actually, we already have 2 characters on Dwilight. I think if the advies and nobles interacted more then things wouldn't feel quite as empty. Lords should be announcing quests or something when they pop a big bounty in a region.
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The problem those realms have specifically is the geography mostly, mixed with the current player density/lack of activity in general.
The problem with Dwilight in general is the west, entirely. It's been over a year now I believe, so I think it's fair to make an assessment.
The west should have never been reopened.
Westgard has added nothing to the play experience of other realms except to be a base for pve raids. No offense to that realm. It is not the fault of the players. I am sure it is a good realm and fun to play in if you like pve.
The problem is that unlike the addition of Alara, MN, and the red bird realm in East continent, Westgard does not add any tension to the continent.
Opening the west and especially allowing the monster hordes to cross east via sea does not add tension either, it in fact relieves it by providing a massive pve/looting playground to the west and a common pve enemy for many realms to focus on.
If it wasn't for Westfold there probably wouldn't be any wars in Dwilight that aren't small realm bullying like Astrum/Morek vs. HD.
Dwilight has become a bad version of Beluaterra with more sailing and less story.
I will agree with you that Westgard should not have been placed where it was, but will stop about there. Placing it where Avernus is would probably have been a better idea.
But it not contributing to Dwilight experience? Westgard has frequent contact with Astrum, Avernus, Morek, and Arnor. Even had wars with its neighbors, and there persists some territorial tensions. It also has at least irregular contact with D'Hara and Luria. I'm constantly coordinating with foreign nobles, and we are often fighting alongside one, two, or even three other realms at a time. Westgard has also taken public stances in some foreign conflicts, and though these mostly happened at our most dire times, if the rogues start favoring low density-realms over us, it remains quite possible that Westgard could actually sail east and fight humans. We've got an army which, while not huge, has a lot of nobles and is used to marching around, and usually has pretty decent movement rates.
And I hear all the times foreigners say they are glad to come sail to Westgard to fight monsters with us, that it gives them something to do. All while our ruler gets to badger others for this and that.
Westgard is a thousand times more meaningful to Dwilight as a whole than Madina and Fissoa are combined. It created enough tension to get in a large war with Astrum, has generated lesser tensions lately, and will inevitably create more tensions later. That's not things I would talk about OOC however. Having been on the brink of survival so much has limited its capacity to create tension, but it's a proud realm with a ton of nobles are a fair amount of ambition. Given the means (a break) to do stuff, it wouldn't sit on its ass forever like Madina and Fissoa have.
Westfold gets a lot of credit for shaking things up. HD started the war by sneak attacking Morek, though, while their army was in Westgard. They aren't victims, they are the aggressors. Astrum gets credit for showing a lot of restraint: it could easily steamroll any opponent, it chooses to let other realms fight their wars and have their fun.
Distance is no excuse. Distance makes things harder, not impossible. Sure, it would be hard for Madina to go join the party in Sabadell... but Madina might be far from the North, it's not far from *everything*. Fissoa is adjacent to your capital, go take it over with a surprise attack. *gasp* Scandalous, I know. That's the point. Go loot Luria to fill your coffers and granaries. *gasp* Calling yourselves a pirate realm and never having raided anyone. Pathetic. Realms like Madina, filled with people who never lift a finger to *do* anything, are the reason I left the game in the first place. What's the point of a game where you "play" doing nothing? It Westgard, at least, there's always *something* to do.
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I will agree with you that Westgard should not have been placed where it was, but will stop about there. Placing it where Avernus is would probably have been a better idea.
That area was occupied by Arnor, so no, it wouldn't have worked.
Astrum gets credit for showing a lot of restraint: it could easily steamroll any opponent, it chooses to let other realms fight their wars and have their fun.
It's a sad day when realms get credit for not steamrolling opponents and letting other realms fight their wars without ruining them. I rather think that should be *normal* behavior.
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That area was occupied by Arnor, so no, it wouldn't have worked.
It's a sad day when realms get credit for not steamrolling opponents and letting other realms fight their wars without ruining them. I rather think that should be *normal* behavior.
Fair point about Arnor, that was before I returned to the game so I didn't know. Westgard's placement makes more sense with that in mind.
As for steamrolling, I think we both know that what *should* have been normal behavior has just about never been. The norm for most of my playing experience was being being uptight about starting wars, and then everyone just gangbanging realms to oblivion. Usually against the "aggressor", initiating a war being the vilest of all crimes. The big neighbor would start by going "hey, we totally disagree with what you are doing, and since we have the strength to oppose you, we will", and then every neighbor would go "WOOHOO SOMETHING TO DO!" I find that the realms in North-East Dwilight have shown a lot of restraint compared to what I am used to from before. Which possibly emboldens other realms to be less afraid of sparking conflicts. All of which good things, in my book.
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Dwilight has some of the best history, ancient feuds and for me anyways a story that strings out in one interesting line, that being said it is literally the worst map for conflict and i'll rehash it for old times sake but closing off the west lands to the kingdoms that were there was the worst idea ever. That being said the North is a bit fun, the midlands are all right, the south seems boring.
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Speaking of multi-characters, is that the reason for the recent 'purge' that's been sweeping through realms? There is a ton of accounts in every realm that are locked now.
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Speaking of multi-characters, is that the reason for the recent 'purge' that's been sweeping through realms? There is a ton of accounts in every realm that are locked now.
Those are multi-accounts, not just multi-characters. And yes, that's why they've been locked.
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This is good, Fronen on Bel I have assumed that a few of our characters are multis. One of them just got kicked, which I was pretty happy about that because they had sucked up lordships/dukedoms and what not and demanded things when I ruled there and I was constantly trying to get rid of them.
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and on ec, they got fontan for "pissant" (credit Selenia) Oi.
good player, bad behavior.
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and on ec, they got fontan for "pissant" (credit Selenia) Oi.
good player, bad behavior.
?