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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Vita` on May 13, 2017, 01:39:54 AM

Title: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 13, 2017, 01:39:54 AM
There's only a limited number of charges thus far. So, in the interests of gathering more ideas for heraldric charges, what else should exists?

Dragons, elephants, goats, and seahorses are my immediate suggestions.

EDIT: I now realize there is a dragon on the other beasts page, that I overlooked.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Chenier on May 13, 2017, 01:55:48 AM
Well, forever ago, I had made this for my family, which is not currently supported by the engine. Would it be feasible to support such a thing?

(http://wiki.battlemaster.org/images/Chenier_-_Coat_of_Arms.JPG)
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Chenier on May 13, 2017, 01:58:55 AM
Also, the "é" in my family name not showing, displays as "Chnier family". And I can't seem to edit the heraldry twice, gives a white page on all further attempts.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Anaris on May 13, 2017, 02:07:13 AM
Well, forever ago, I had made this for my family, which is not currently supported by the engine. Would it be feasible to support such a thing?

(http://wiki.battlemaster.org/images/Chenier_-_Coat_of_Arms.JPG)

That is, unfortunately, much more complex than we are likely to be able to support. We might be able to do something like quartering, or having a couple of charges separated by a...does one call that a bend, or something? Sorry, my heraldic is pretty weak.

But that's got six charges on it, and four of them are inside the stripe...definitely advanced stuff when you have to program it in generically.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Anaris on May 13, 2017, 02:12:53 AM
Also, the "é" in my family name not showing, displays as "Chnier family".

Hm. Please report that on the bugtracker.

I'm still not entirely sure what the right solution to non-ASCII names is...I'd love to be able to guarantee that they'll Just Workâ„¢, but I really can't :\

Quote
And I can't seem to edit the heraldry twice, gives a white page on all further attempts.

Yeah, Vita just showed me that one. I'll fix it when I get a chance—tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 13, 2017, 02:53:23 AM
Quote
And I can't seem to edit the heraldry twice, gives a white page on all further attempts.

Yeah, Vita just showed me that one. I'll fix it when I get a chance—tonight or tomorrow.
For everyone else (and Anaris when he looks at it), this white page error only occurs after saving your design.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 13, 2017, 02:59:37 AM
I agree with Anaris about the shield. The closest we might be able to come to that would be the Blue Bend on the White French Shield with the two red stars. Currently, the placement of the two red stars is not possible, but I think, with some effort, it could be made possible. The four fleur-de-lis in the bend would be a lot more difficult.

To start with, we would need a Star svg vector image.

So, the list: Star, Elephant, Goat, Seahorse.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Jaidan on May 13, 2017, 03:06:05 AM
Hm. Please report that on the bugtracker.

I'm still not entirely sure what the right solution to non-ASCII names is...I'd love to be able to guarantee that they'll Just Workâ„¢, but I really can't :\


I had the same problem with my "ë" in Noël.  Nol isn't quite as epic  :D

I tried to search/submit this on the bugtracker as a guest (using guest as username and password like the wiki says), but it said I was unable to log in.

By the way, nice work!  The heraldry is a fun feature.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Anaris on May 13, 2017, 03:20:59 AM
I tried to search/submit this on the bugtracker as a guest (using guest as username and password like the wiki says), but it said I was unable to log in.

Yeah, we had to disable that because of spam.

Quote
By the way, nice work!  The heraldry is a fun feature.

Thanks! A lot of credit goes to szquirrel, who has sadly moved on from BattleMaster dev work.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Chenier on May 13, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
That is, unfortunately, much more complex than we are likely to be able to support. We might be able to do something like quartering, or having a couple of charges separated by a...does one call that a bend, or something? Sorry, my heraldic is pretty weak.

But that's got six charges on it, and four of them are inside the stripe...definitely advanced stuff when you have to program it in generically.

Yea, my heraldry terminology sucks too. And I'd understand if it proves too complex.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: DoctorHarte on May 13, 2017, 11:36:58 PM
Can I have a heart?  ;D

Also, having multiple images on the crest would be cool! What do you call them? "Charges"?
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: JeVondair on May 15, 2017, 10:21:02 PM
I would like to see the following"


==Animal Heads==
Options: Snarling or Calm
Directions: Facing Viewer or  Side Profile left/right
Types: Wolf, Lion, Dragon, Boar, Bear, Eagle Etc.
Special Category: Helms (Mediveal, Viking, Samurai, Roman, whatevs devs!)


If there is any interest, I can probably find PNGs online.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Anaris on May 15, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
I would like to see the following"


==Animal Heads==
Options: Snarling or Calm
Directions: Facing Viewer or  Side Profile left/right
Types: Wolf, Lion, Dragon, Boar, Bear, Eagle Etc.
Special Category: Helms (Mediveal, Viking, Samurai, Roman, whatevs devs!)


If there is any interest, I can probably find PNGs online.

PNGs will not help. They need to be SVGs, and they need to be either a permissive CC license or public domain.

As far as interest...basically, I'm interested in just about anything that a) fits the milieu, and b) matches the style of the existing ones. Find it, post it here, and if it fits those criteria, I'll almost certainly add it (sooner or later).
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: steelabjur@aol.com on May 17, 2017, 08:10:48 AM
I'd like to see an Eye, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Attano on May 17, 2017, 08:14:11 AM
I wonder if it would be possible to get a star of Chaos.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Wimpie on May 17, 2017, 08:42:09 AM
I wonder if it would be possible to get a star of Chaos.

If you manage to find it in the right format and right permissions/domain, sure.

They need to be SVGs, and they need to be either a permissive CC license or public domain.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Attano on May 17, 2017, 11:47:29 AM
Have a link to a CC permissive licence SVG.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chaos_star.svg (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chaos_star.svg)
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Ossan on May 17, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
I like this feature, certainly adds a nice visual touch to the game and enhances the medievalness. My only request is maybe better colours, I'm not sure exactly how to describe it but I feel like they're just too bright and virtual looking. I feel like a lot of the existing ones just don't look very good together. Wouldn't mind one of those colour chooser squares that have lots of colours and shades, but I also have no idea how much work that would be.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Wimpie on May 17, 2017, 06:53:12 PM
I like this feature, certainly adds a nice visual touch to the game and enhances the medievalness. My only request is maybe better colours, I'm not sure exactly how to describe it but I feel like they're just too bright and virtual looking. I feel like a lot of the existing ones just don't look very good together. Wouldn't mind one of those colour chooser squares that have lots of colours and shades, but I also have no idea how much work that would be.

I was told by Tim these were the authentic heraldry colors one used for banners and such.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: DoctorHarte on May 17, 2017, 07:29:11 PM
I agree. The colors really don't match all that well except for a few. And as much as it is cool to stick to the heraldry colors of the past, this is BattleMaster. There is a lot inside here that doesn't reflect the past. Daimons, magic, etc. Let us be more creative!
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Ossan on May 18, 2017, 07:40:03 PM
I was told by Tim these were the authentic heraldry colors one used for banners and such.
I think the problem is that they are very bright, sharp digital tones/shades/whatever the heck they are, and the actual colours used would look a lot more, well, real.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Anaris on May 18, 2017, 08:05:22 PM
...Are you sure what you mean isn't, "The colours I'm expecting to see used would look a lot more, well, faded by hundreds of years of weather"?

'Cause they had plenty of vibrant colours in the medieval period (not as vibrant as our neon stuff today, sure, but plenty bright). It's just that a) it was so expensive only nobles (y'know, the people we play ;D ) could use them, and b) most authentic examples you see today of objects dyed during that period are horribly faded (because it's been nearly a millennium).

Doesn't mean they didn't have bright, sharp colours.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Malus on May 18, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
Bad taste is a foundation of human history. Though, I did find something aesthetic for my modern tastes in the editor.

(http://battlemaster.org/heraldry/preview.php/swiss-argent-per_fess-sable-caltrop-gules-small.svg)
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Gildre on May 21, 2017, 08:10:46 PM
I agree with Timothy. When I think of jousting knights in the lists, I imagine banners of bright blue, yellow, red, and green. They are vibrant and eye catching.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Chenier on May 22, 2017, 01:37:08 AM
Seems like a number of flags and banners have symbols (like flowers or bees) on their charges, though. :P
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: daviceroy on May 23, 2017, 11:36:23 AM
I don't say this often (Tim, you might want to write it down ;) ) but I agree with Tim.  The banners were often considered vibrant and bright.  We are used to "color" sensitivity.  Back then, if you didn't like it, well... *sharpens the ax*

I am thankful that a squirrel was included.  That amused me enough to add it to my coat.  Maybe I'm just nuts. LOL
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 23, 2017, 08:39:29 PM
I'm not sure what Chenier is talking about at all, it seems a rather out-of-context statement.

I think, historically, the colours wouldn't have been very consistent shades, but they most certainly would've been bright, as heraldry's purpose was easy identification from afar.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 23, 2017, 08:48:51 PM
I am thankful that a squirrel was included.  That amused me enough to add it to my coat.  Maybe I'm just nuts. LOL
Well, the developer that did most of the heraldry feature years back did go by the name szquirrel.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Ossan on May 24, 2017, 07:27:47 AM
Yes I am aware of all that, but there's a difference between bright paint and bright completely digital colours. The blue is especially awful to my eyes. This could also be further increased by the way I have calibrated my monitor, but still really don't like the blue.

Though I'm sure making it a little more actual paint instead of MS Paint like is not quick, simple and easy task :p
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 24, 2017, 08:10:09 PM
While we can't account for monitor display differences, if you would like to propose an alternative blue hexcode (or a set), we can at least compare the colours and consider changing the blue.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: JeVondair on May 24, 2017, 09:31:01 PM
Did everyone pick the rampant lion? lol
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Sharpspeare on May 25, 2017, 12:27:07 AM
Did everyone pick the rampant lion? lol

Nope, I didn't
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Sharpspeare on May 25, 2017, 12:34:54 AM
I choose the Winged Stag for my Heraldry. Though I still see the crest on my family's wiki page as the official crest of the Sharpspeare family.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: MTYL on May 25, 2017, 09:28:55 PM
I was looking for hawk. No hawks. No hawks whatsoever. :(

Had to settle for some other bird.
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: squirrel on May 30, 2017, 02:15:24 PM
It's very gratifying to see the Heraldry! :)
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: Vita` on May 30, 2017, 02:31:41 PM
It's even more gratifying to see you! Join us on the IRCs!
Title: Re: Heraldry Charges
Post by: BarticaBoat on May 30, 2017, 07:22:06 PM
Did everyone pick the rampant lion? lol

My heraldry is: "Sable, a chief gules, overtop all an eagle displayed or"

Sable symbolizes grief and constancy, a chief symbolizes rule or authority while gules is the warrior or martyr, an eagle represent​s intellect or a man of action while or is majesty or generosity. My heraldry, then represents the enduring nature of my family in the face of hardship, their authority as warriors, and their willingness to offer these skills in fair service and unwillingness to serve those who threaten their majesty.