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BattleMaster => Locals => Colonies => Topic started by: JDodger on June 25, 2017, 12:53:25 AM
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Anyone have a good reason not to?
Other than "I have a semi decent gold farm there" or "Outer Tilog still has two more realms to go before their dominion is complete"?
Holla at me if so.
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Because we have just enough islands to fill maximum noble count and some people actually enjoy playing there.
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But why
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But why
Because other people, astonishingly, have different priorities and different likes and dislikes than you.
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People can already have a character on each of the islands, if you sink another one then the fourth noble slot will be worthless. As it is now people can't even bring an adventurer up to a noble either without killing or pausing another of their characters.
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Because other people, astonishingly, have different priorities and different likes and dislikes than you.
Yes indeed. Holla at me if so.
I can understand the mechanics of noble slots but I still have yet to see an actual reason why colonies is a worthwhile continent. Edit: currently.
Please enlighten me.
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Tilog is a silly place for people who like to be silly towards each other, which makes the interactions there a lot more enjoyable for me than some of the other continents. There's no real reason to sink the colonies.
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One turn a day also appeals more to a number of the people there. Apart from brief periods with other characters, the Colonies has been my favourite place to be for many years.
The balance of power is tricky, as once one realm gets to a certain size it does seem to dominate, but if other realms work together, that balance can swiftly be regained (and is generally what is wanted by everyone). It's not actually that long ago that Outer Tilog thought it was going to be wiped out.
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Rest assured, the Colonies are going nowhere. Sinking the Colonies would be as big a mistake as we made with the monsters on western Dwilight. Not again.
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Yeah; it would piss off a bunch of people for effectively zero gain. There's no way we could get the density of other islands up by sinking the Colonies.
So, JDodger, let me turn this around on you.
Why do you think sinking the Colonies would be a good thing? What would BattleMaster gain from it?
Because that's always what we have to consider when doing something drastic like sinking an island. It's never, ever a matter of "is there a good reason not to?" first. Because there's always a good reason not to: the enjoyment of the people playing there, some of whom have had characters there going back a decade and a half.
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One really does need to be literal to the point of obtuseness in 2017.
The point of this topic is to highlight how horribly stagnant the colonies are and have been due to the OT super alliance.
Truth be told I like the colonies for a lot of reasons but they suck right now and as usual in BM the few players who have a desire to change things dont have the numbers or the resources to change anything.
This topic was meant to segue into a conversation on how to change that.
Segue.
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suck right now
See, even if they maybe suck right now, that is not a reason to sink the island is it? They will not be as they are now permanently.
And while I can't really speak for how enjoyable it is currently, I somewhat doubt that it really sucks so much.
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I dunno two realms have been helplessly roflstomped to death recently, there was a crappy imbalanced war in the south that would have resulted in a third if i hadnt surrendered, pretty much cant sneeze without risking the wrath of an invincible alliance. its a pretty bad situation.
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1. If you want to start a discussion on what's not good about the Colonies, or how things would need to be changed, don't give the thread the title 'Sing the Colonies'.
2. If you don't enjoy playing there, just.. don't play there? Obviously there's a lot of other people who do enjoy the island..
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I dunno two realms have been helplessly roflstomped to death recently, there was a crappy imbalanced war in the south that would have resulted in a third if i hadnt surrendered, pretty much cant sneeze without risking the wrath of an invincible alliance. its a pretty bad situation.
Two realms stomped to death recently? We've just lost Minas Thingamewhatsit, there hasn't been another one recently (depends on your view of recently I guess). Plus, Minas Thingamewhatsit's demise was assisted by the very poor diplomacy as many realms involved in the conflict tried to give the realm a way out and each time had it thrown back in their faces...
Outer Tilog will be downsizing soon. I don't like other realms feeling they need to go along with us (as I didn't like it when Lukon was in an even more powerful position in the past (which brought about the Senate and various self imposed rules on the Island).
This time next year, I'm sure we'll be complaining about someone else being a dominant realm, but we'll deal with it as we have done before and ensure the Colonies stay fun for all (who want it to be fun)
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1. Why not, it generated more interest in twelve hours on a weekend than most topics get in a week. If people would read between the lines... Or not even really between the lines, just past the title, it was pretty obvious that this was meant to generate discussion.
2. If everyone followed this advice Colonies population would be even lower than it is, probably by a significant margin. I am curious to see how active any realm other than OT is, and how activity in OT has trended since they roflstomped MT.
3. If you don't like my title, don't post in my thread. 8)
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I'm referring to Giblot.
OT is downsizing how..?
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1. Why not, it generated more interest in twelve hours on a weekend than most topics get in a week. If people would read between the lines... Or not even really between the lines, just past the title, it was pretty obvious that this was meant to generate discussion.
If what you're saying is, "I wrote something I didn't mean, that was deliberately inflammatory, in order to get people talking"...then that's trolling. You just declared yourself to be a troll.
That's not something we tolerate here. If you want to start discussion on a topic, then be straightforward.
Right now, what you've mainly accomplished is to get on the bad side of a lot of people, including game admins.
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I'm referring to Giblot.
OT is downsizing how..?
Giblot was not what I'd class as recent... Would need someone in Gothica who's been there since its creation to give an idea of how old it is, then add a couple of months for when Giblot was destroyed.
I'm not much into OOC discussion about future intentions...
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Anaris, I would actually classify it more as clickbait.
If you read the post I mean every word and its really not as bad as you make it or myself out to be.
Ive been on your bad side for a while for whatever reason, Im sorry for trying to help make your game more interesting. You should probably just ignore me if you can't resist taking everything I do or say so dang seriously. I've made my MO pretty obvious. If you don't get it just look at EC where it was before me and where it is now and smile, and relax.
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Almost the one year anniversary of Gothica:
2016-07-07 - Inalla Fontaine Seceded from Outer Tilog and founded the realm of Gothica.
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Right. And the fact that that was the most recent interesting thing before MT getting roflstomped is very telling.
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Anaris, I would actually classify it more as clickbait.
It wasn't just a clickbait title that had a message explaining your actual position, but a clickbait title with several messages saying 'why not sink the Colonies?'. As Wimpie said, if you want to discuss something, *start* with that something. It's much more effective than arguing about how you presented the topic after you obfuscate your intent. What is obvious inside your head is not obvious to everyone else, until you tell them, using effective language. If you start asking why the Colonies shouldn't be sunk, people are going to answer why the Colonies should not be sunk, not start a discussion on how the OT alliance sucks and the Colonies could use improvement. Seriously, I expect better from you Dodger.
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Right. And the fact that that was the most recent interesting thing before MT getting roflstomped is very telling.
Might have have wanted to do something about that in your realm then. We always (mostly) have interesting things going on...
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Yeah, Aren has not ever been in a position to do anything the entire time i was there.
/quits forums again
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Well, when someone suddenly starts shouting rubbish about something that a lot of people like, without giving anything of substance to back it up or suggestions for perceived improvement needed, what sort of response do you expect? Sounds like you're saying "I'm not having fun here and I want others to do things to change that"
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Outer Tilog a power? Man, things have changed. The only things I remember from it are nearly dying again and again, and requiring Tom's intervention to prevent that (townsland as capital).
Realms rise and fall. Sometimes many times. I don't think any realm on the Colonies has a geographical advantage, not a major one at least, the continent is pretty round, the cities pretty diffuse. If a set of realms dominate, it's because they've got the manpower and the know-how to do so, and so their position of power is well deserved. Especially if said realms came from so low.
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Or they were spared by the south, then formed a super alliance with Lukon Portion Wetham and InnerGiblothica or whatever to roflstomp and destroy Minas Thalion while Oritolon kept Aren busy. Actually pretty lame.
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Sounds pretty crafty to me.
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Doesnt take any craft at all to win a war like that.
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I engineered a war to destroy the most active realm on EC based on poor RP and OOC biases against CE so that we can all enjoy another few years of Perdan-Vix dominance and limited wars that can only occur with their blessing.
FTFY
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The war already existed. I was the one that goaded the north into finally joining starting with my first letter to the other rulers. You have no idea how hard I am working behind the scenes to try to balance things out and make the war last and provide fun for everyone. Also I dont know what FTFY means.
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You are quite good at saying one thing and then going back on it after, aren't you? You want the colonies to be sunk, but you never wanted that. You engineered that war, but it was already there...
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I figured at least one person wouldnt realize that was a fake quote. I didn't say what bartica "quoted".
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I've never had a character at the Colonies. This thread convinced me to make one. From the sound of it Colonies are really fun. :)
And about that quote - I don't know if it's real or not but to be honest it does sound like something Dodger would have said. ;D
On your defense though JB, war would be happening, escalating and ending up pretty much the same way it did wether you would involve yourself in it or not, so GX going down (which is IC awesome but OOC a sad thing, as I've heard it's a really fun realm) is not on you.
And I wouldn't say that Vix-Perdan alliance will be OT of East Continent or SA alliance of EC, there's a lot of tensions inside the Southern Alliance and I'm fairly certain that there'll be a lot of fun on East Continent regardless of how the war will go, people just have to open up more to social/political play. If you create two huge monolithic power-blocks the only thing that can happen is world war between those two blocks untill one side wins, the more variables and uncertainties you add to the mix, the more outcomes you can have (other than world war between two sides untill one wins).
EDIT: sorry about offtopic, it's a thread about sinking the Colonies, not about East Continent geopolitical situaiton.
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Or they were spared by the south, then formed a super alliance with Lukon Portion Wetham and InnerGiblothica or whatever to roflstomp and destroy Minas Thalion while Oritolon kept Aren busy. Actually pretty lame.
If you just asked about this in game you could have proper answers that enhance your fun. As it is, it seems no matter what anyone says, you've decided everything that happened and hats just the way it is...
You seem to be oblivious to how very, very wrong your above statement is.
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I figured at least one person wouldnt realize that was a fake quote. I didn't say what bartica "quoted".
Right, shame on people who don't presume uncontested quotes to be false.
Yea, I don't think there's anything worth discussing here anymore.
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Oh goodness. It should have been obvious dude. Relax, I mean no offense and there is nothing about you in that post. I stated a fact with no shame involved.
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Outer Tilog a power? Man, things have changed. The only things I remember from it are nearly dying again and again, and requiring Tom's intervention to prevent that (townsland as capital).
Realms rise and fall. Sometimes many times. I don't think any realm on the Colonies has a geographical advantage, not a major one at least, the continent is pretty round, the cities pretty diffuse. If a set of realms dominate, it's because they've got the manpower and the know-how to do so, and so their position of power is well deserved. Especially if said realms came from so low.
Yes, many realms rise and fall as the time goes on.
Or they were spared by the south, then formed a super alliance with Lukon Portion Wetham and InnerGiblothica or whatever to roflstomp and destroy Minas Thalion while Oritolon kept Aren busy. Actually pretty lame.
If only a new ruler in Minas Thalion replacing Cathal, then maybe MT had chance of survival. My character kept hearing the same old same old reasons, Portion just want compensation for militia killed by MT while MT army on its way to fight Wetham. While Lukon joining in support of Portion. And when Portion say why MT just want deal with them alone, should have put all involved parties/realms and talk together. Just admit some wrongdoing, move on and rebuild, perhaps MT could have survived just doing that. Maybe even make full use of old Ash Ketchum himself, as he seems to have friends all around, much more influence than you give him credit for ;)
The difficult part about MT and Wetham war was it is due to Wetham old King assassin second character(before second character was removed from islands change). And with MT and Wetham lands being far apart distance from each other, anyone from MT or Wetham must go through Portion lands in order to get at each other :o
On the last part about Oritolon keeping Aren busy. Oritolon just want claim Abaka region from Aren in the name of its previous King, my character. Which we done successfully thanks to no less of military talents. We managed to break through up till Warmanoras before Aren bounced back from shock and awe, and restock militia at Irdalni, which caused pretty stalemate all around for both realms :(
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You pulled a real nasty plan out for Aren, for sure. Shock and awe indeed.
Lots of reasons why Dodgers dont trust Ketchums but that is a House they respect too.
Whatever happened to Traitor King Ash in Oritolon?
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If only a new ruler in Minas Thalion replacing Cathal, then maybe MT had chance of survival. My character kept hearing the same old same old reasons, Portion just want compensation for militia killed by MT while MT army on its way to fight Wetham. While Lukon joining in support of Portion. And when Portion say why MT just want deal with them alone, should have put all involved parties/realms and talk together. Just admit some wrongdoing, move on and rebuild, perhaps MT could have survived just doing that. Maybe even make full use of old Ash Ketchum himself, as he seems to have friends all around, much more influence than you give him credit for ;)
I'm not going to comment on the diplomacy as I've no interest in the popular forum sport of reliving old wars to prove or disprove the rightness of the outcome. OT played a blinder and I admire their having learned lessons from previous conflicts and applied them well even if I'd have (obviously) preferred them to have stayed out of it.
The MT-Wetham war was an experiment to test several of the Senate's founding principles whilst staying faithful to them.
The war was a hangover from a declaration by King Sadi who wanted to find out whether he or Cathal was the better general (a rivalry dating back to the Lukon-Oritolon war), and there's no obvious way for Wetham or Alebad to make territorial claims against each other making it the ideal testbed.
Rian offered a white peace which Cathal rejected, then rather than fight battles he had his infil brother Robert attack a number of MT's councillors whilst still being a knight of Wetham. The Senate Law made it clear that all rulers would encourage infils to join the Assassins. That suggested a reasonable pretext to continue the war and its aims: an apology from King Rian.
Marching through Portion was always going to be risky. Not because of their strength (they had very few active players at the time) but because there's always someone who sees crossing neutral territory as an excuse to either use murderous settings or loot. And as we had a Mayhem on team at the time it was unsurprising that both happened. I decided to roll with that and fight a second limited war against Portion-Lukon so Cathal immediately took full responsibility and offered full reparations for the damage as determined by Queen Raven. It was essentially a blank cheque but who in BM ever cashes those?
In the south Oritolon had broken the triple alliance to make war on Aren and at the request of both rulers Cathal agreed that MT would stay out of the conflict. He could hardly expect anyone else to stick to the 1v1 war dynamic if MT didn't.
Before any of this kicked off I'd put a lot of thought and hard work into creating a strong defensive position which no conventional force would breach: a garrison of several hundred range 4 SF, a six month food stockpile, a full war chest with field supply via secret society meeting places, and a good balance of fully developed RCs in Alebad. The city itself produced enough gold to support MT's army and also pay the 50 gold per 100 bushels Cathal was offering for additional food shipments making the neighbouring regions disposable.
Whilst the war was MT v Lukon-Portion-Wetham it was an interesting stalemate with the occasional bombing by the Assassins (a size 4 RC should be bloody difficult to take down so no surprise there, but death of recruits could have been a problem if the campaign had been sustained) and a reasonable number of fun battles. MT took and held Windaria until certain events caused the Lord to defect. I won't say anything about that as it might still have potential for IC consequences so it's not appropriate for discussion here.
I was surprised it took OT so long to join the war but they'd taken some bruising beatings from us in our previous war because of our ranged SF and I'm guessing they held off until they had a similar weapon to deploy rather than the shock cavalry they'd used back then. The range 5 SF they now have really are an awesome weapon and were the only thing I'd chosen to ignore when planning Alebad's defences because of their rarity. The siege battle reports made for interesting reading because the defending militia garrison was impotent but fire at range 5 causes very few casualties per volley.
Cathal is now taking a break whilst I concentrate on Aoifa for a while. The Dubhaines will keep a presence in the Colonies for as long as I play BM.
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Really, the stance Outer Tilog gave in game was true and the only reason we joined the battle against you was due to the refused passage rights to get to our target.
The way the range 5 was used was effective but unrealistic and dull. Hopefully something can be done about that...
Trying to say we were some mastermind in the situation really does us a disservice. We are not a complicated realm and generally just say what we mean.
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Yep, if we had gotten passage through Minas to attack Aren like we wanted in the first place we surely would have stayed out of the war Minas was already engaged in. Abyss, you might have been able to talk us into allowing you access to Wetham through our lands and avoided drawing Portion (and thus Lukon) into it. Never knew why you stuck so close to them when there was a possible win/win situation there, sure it won you our first conflict, but it made you enemies in a realm known for being torture/murder happy with very long memories. :p
Also, to answer the title of the thread, sinking the Colonies would be a very bad idea. Some people just don't have the time to play two turns a day and would more than likely leave rather than immigrate to another island where they couldn't be more involved. I mean, for awhile, I only had characters in The Colonies and that's where the Abjur family is from (Hilly Holes, to be exact), I'm pretty connected to that island and it's... unique setting (particularly Outer Tilog), to the point that it flavors my non-Colonies characters, since they're all from the same Daimon worshiping crazy family.
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as long as everyone is cool with realm destroying im cool, sinking the colonies was never a literal suggestion. although i did pause my lil Karl-Jagutu.
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I am very anti realm destruction and it saddens me whenever it happens. Especially in cases where you know it only happened because one side was being stubborn...
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It's upsetting when a realm is destroyed because the realm they were fighting refused to give them a realistic offer of peace.
It's "death by stupidity" when a realm is destroyed because they won't accept a realistic offer of peace. Frankly, I think that kind of stubbornness is one of the worst things for the game, and I have no sympathy for the leadership of such realms, and little for the rank and file unless they're being actively misled by their leaders.
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Outer Tilog: we don't want to fight you, we just want to walk across your lands to take some petty revenge on your ally.
Minas Thingamewhatsit: no, we won't allow that, you must fight us if you want to go through...
Even when the realm knew it was on its last legs, it refused the simple thing which would have removed Outer Tilog from the fight...
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and put outer tilog into... you know what never mind
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and put outer tilog into... you know what never mind
Again, people tend to project their own ways into other realms as to what they expect... We really did only want a petty revenge against Aren (causing a bit of damage, nothing they wouldn't be able to recover from). Anything anyone else says or implies is just plain wrong.
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right except... never mind
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right except... never mind
If you're not actually going to say anything useful, it's probably best not to bother saying anything...
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what did you... oh forget it
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I am very anti realm destruction and it saddens me whenever it happens. Especially in cases where you know it only happened because one side was being stubborn...
Realms are destroyed. That's part of the game.
MT was originally the dream of Cathal's enemies, built on the ruins of his old ally Alebad, and I moved him there on a whim. That whim's paid for itself many times over. Twice leading MT against alliances taught me much about BM's mechanics that I wouldn't have learned otherwise and if I were more interested in winning than in making the game interesting for other players I could probably pull off some serious weirdness. Even Tom expressed surprise when we made the Drenga colony self-sustaining as the game's mechanics are biased against realms being viable without a city.
As for stubborness? All the Dubhaines have their own distinct character flaws and this happens to be one of Cathal's. In his defence, you'd be stubborn if you had regular visions and believed yourself chosen by the Gods to save the world from an apocalypse. However Cathal's never destroyed a realm or sought to do so, and when in a position of strength has always offered his enemies better terms than circumstances required - often better terms than if they were the victors.
If Cathal had to make his decisions over I suspect he still wouldn't let OT march past Alebad's walls without resisting no matter the cost. OT has the blood of too many other realms on their hands to be trusted, had an alliance with Wetham which made it unsafe, and Aren was not in a position to mount as meaningful a defence.
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You pulled a real nasty plan out for Aren, for sure. Shock and awe indeed.
Lots of reasons why Dodgers dont trust Ketchums but that is a House they respect too.
Whatever happened to Traitor King Ash in Oritolon?
There were some voices of claiming Alowca city as second city of Oritolon, but I cannot imagine Colonial Senate letting Oritolon gets away with it. That power "every realm will attack other realm who hold second city" strikes too much fear into our characters, that much for sure >:(
In turns, Ash saw the only way Oritolon can move forward from its present, is by his stepping down as its Ruler. After all, new Ruler usually come with new stuffs. Holding up Oritolon inevitable will lead to its decline state, and besides that IC reasons, I have OOC reason as well, I am having too many Rulers characters right now and could not keep up much :)
Ash is actually planning to retire after this, he is the oldest character in my characters list. As for Aren, the Abaka claim by Ash is the only valid point I could find for Oritolon war with Aren. How did it sound fighting to claim a land in the name of Oritolon King? :P
Stuff
I agree stuffs said on Cathal. Which is why Ash made the Oritolon-Aren war 1 to 1 and he truly believed Cathal words that MT would not join in. Ash did have another surprise should MT turned from its word though, but that was not to be. Towards end of the Oritolon-Aren war, Ash planned another surprise before he steps down. Let it not be said that Ash is really full of surprises even for those who thought they know and understand him by that point his surprise is revealed. So Ash stepping down is to ensure he keeps his legacy intact as well, though the new Orit Ruler has her own ways.
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[Whine mode on] Yes but 'my' realm was destroyed by multi cheaters
MOST tragic moment in BM :'( :'(
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[Whine mode on] Yes but 'my' realm was destroyed by multi cheaters
MOST tragic moment in BM :'( :'(
One of the more annoying aspects of BM is the sporadic outbreaks of multi cheats, the others being OOC clans and players who get their kicks causing strife but aren't interested in sticking around for the fallout.
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I agree stuffs said on Cathal. Which is why Ash made the Oritolon-Aren war 1 to 1 and he truly believed Cathal words that MT would not join in. Ash did have another surprise should MT turned from its word though, but that was not to be. Towards end of the Oritolon-Aren war, Ash planned another surprise before he steps down. Let it not be said that Ash is really full of surprises even for those who thought they know and understand him by that point his surprise is revealed. So Ash stepping down is to ensure he keeps his legacy intact as well, though the new Orit Ruler has her own ways.
Strategically a pivot against Oritolon to save Aren and then allow both realms to defend Alebad would have made a lot of sense, and I figured out plans for doing that which weren't dissimilar to OT's assault on Alebad, but Cathal was having none of it :o
If Oritolon has the courage to stand against the Senate and retain Alebad I'll probably bring Cathal back to assist on whichever side I think will add more fun to the resulting war. But in the meantime it's nice having a break from him and playing my other characters again, including Aoifa who's administering the Dark Citadel. Trying to get anything done within the financial constraints the Assassins have to work with is quite a challenge but I hope by the time I'm finished that it will once more be the stronghold I remember from years back.