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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Qureshima1 on September 25, 2017, 09:15:53 PM

Title: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Qureshima1 on September 25, 2017, 09:15:53 PM
Hi, Just today I came across a roleplay in BM that I found crossed the line into disturbing and distasteful. I've played BM since 2008 at least and I was never so revolted by a roleplay. This one contained a description of brutality during a brutal takeover that was of a quasi sexual nature. I didn't like it and I think BM should have a rule banning this sort of stuff. I will copy the offending  roleplay below outlining the worsrt bit in blue color. I've deleted the name of the character who sent it because I don't want this to be abut the player, I just want to know if others find this roleplay equally disturbing and think it should be banned like I do. I haven't seen a BM rule that bans this sort of thing:

================

Roleplay from [Name Removed] (2 hours, 7 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in the region Oligarch (46 recipients)

Brutalized

The day had started once again. Smoke rose from a thousand different places all across the huge city of Oligarch. Perhaps half from actual hearths but the rest were borne from malice. Riding through the winding streets [Name Removed]'s face was covered with a bordeaux scarf. The fabric coming from the good people Gadlock, swamp linnen. A haze of smoke escaped a crumpled building. Slithering past some exposed support beams and engulfing a section of the street. Not quite obscuring the view entirely but certainly cladding passers by in a gauzelike cloak that stung the eyes and beckoned forth tears.

The same could be said for the soldiers that strode through the main boulevard. People were being dragged from their homes, their bodies bruised as angry hands forced them to comply. Strung up along the buildings where roof ornaments where being used as makeshift gallows. Long reed canes used as whips that cut their flesh and left a patchwork of red lines on their raw skin. Asher eyed it as he passed by, not saying a word. A young woman, someone's daughter, was dragged across the streets from her family home. An older man, presumably her father, begged the soldiers to spare her. His balding head a little chubby but only because life had been good to him in the past. His wife clutching the doorframe she stood in. Nails burrowing deep. Falling to his knees, the father wept as his voice broke into a besieging screech. One of the soldiers got annoyed and turned around. Deftly fishing a dagger from its sheath and grasping it firmly in his hand. Before the balding father knew what had happened he was reaching for his throat and gurgled a few more words. His hands tried furiously but could only make a defunct dam and blood gushed through the gaps. Despite the fact that his life was literally slipping through his fingers, he never took his eyes off his daughter.

She had been dragged to the center of the street and now the soldiers had formed a ring around her. Each taking turns in ripping clothing from her fair body. Pushing her around and each time she was shoved into the arms of yet another malicious man, more hands groped her, did her pain, beat her, felt nails scratch her body and eventually, when lust turned to frustration in the soldiers, they beat her again. This time with vigor. They wanted to brutalize her but those orders hadn't been given. As the fair maiden fell to the ground, her body only nominally clad, the skin on her knees broke with the impact. Army boots, the kind that were reinforced and armored, found her body and kicked her without remorse. One particular fat soldier, his mouth frothing as his beady little eyes roved over her exposed body, viciously kicked her in the mouth. The entire tip of his boot vanishing in the action. The corners of her mouth ripped, blood exploded from where her front teeth used to be and what came next from her mouth was a quiet, anguished noise that could not be described with words.

Not waiting for what would come next, [Name Removed] looked away and urged his mount on.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: JeVondair on September 25, 2017, 09:35:24 PM
While I share your distaste (for brutality in general), the RP in question is a valid, realistic depiction of random acts of violence under a brutal takeover, the opposite of a friendly one.  Battlemaster is a medieval simulator, and they called it the 'Dark Ages' for a reason. I'm actually really glad that the writer chose to explore this gritty view further. Dark as it was, it was practically 'nice' compared to other things that can be done in this game that were historically perpetrated both IG and IRL
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Blint on September 25, 2017, 09:41:31 PM
I am in the realm that this RP took place, and as was discussed among several players OOC, I have no issue with what was Roleplayed.

There are clear statements in the Takeover activity messages as well as other horrible things that we as players can have our noble characters do.

For the takeover activity messages one clearly states

Takeover Activity   (12 minutes ago)
message to everyone in Oligarch
Soldiers of [NAME REMOVED] have been patrolling the streets and attacking peasants critical of the regime change.
The locals now fear Sirion somewhat more. There is a little bit less sympathy for Sirion now.


Additionally think about the actions that a Judge can take, i.e. Torture a noble to get information about messages that have been sent/received. As a player whose had characters tortured as well as characters who have done the torturing, I find it enjoyable and challenging to RP these events. As was stated before in game, I think there is a clear line between creative liberty about game mechanics and violence and brutality that is over the top and obscene for the sake of being over the top and obscene. In my experience I have only ever ran into a player that breached that line and went into the realm of over the top brutality (against one of my characters without my consent which is a whole other issue) for the sake of proving a point that the character had more power over mine.

It was also cited in game that BM is a medieval simulator, and that era in time was called the "dark ages" for a reason. It was not uncommon for a noble to see a commoner/peasant and decide that he or she would be the nobles pleasure for the evening.. I am not saying that it's okay to go around and in brutal and explicit detail describe a rape, or a sexual encounter between two consenting nobles to the point of it becoming pornographic, but semi-ambiguously describing a Brutal Takeover of a region is not something I feel should be denied to players.   
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Qureshima1 on September 25, 2017, 09:59:41 PM
Thanks for the replies so far.

Just to clarify, I have no problem with torture or violence in the game. thats part of the game. what I object to is the graphic detail. There's a fine  line between simple description and gory detail. I think the line has been crossed here. And even if you think it hasn'tbeen crossed, its certainly possible thatt an even more graphic post could cross the line.  In that case, shouldn't there be BM guidelines regulating this kind of post?
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Wimpie on September 25, 2017, 10:09:45 PM
Just my 2 cents. While I encourage Roleplay, very much so, we do have younger kids playing this game as well. I would be prudent in going too much into details about things like this. But in my view, nothing happened against the rules here.

There is a system in place for determining if a post is vulgar or not, by clicking the 'vulgarity' link. 5 randomly chosen characters will receive the message and can judge if it is vulgar or fitting for a noble. It should be taken into account that it was marked a roleplay, of course.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Blint on September 25, 2017, 10:12:10 PM
I don't believe "official" Guidelines need to be established, I think if we start to establish what is "okay" to RP we start down a path where we severely limit players in what they can and can't RP. I personally find realms far more fun when there is active RP going on. I think if we start to establish rules around what can and can't be put into a RP then we start to dump sand and dirt on the fire and passion for RPing that some players have.

I don't at all agree with your opinion that the cited RP was over the line and graphic. It was, I think, ambiguous to the point that a child (Someone say under the age of 10 or 11) wouldn't really get/understand what was implied to have happened next.. I.e. the rape and/or murder of the peasant.

I hope I don't come off as condescending here, but I think if the RP was truly graphic and over the top, more people would have stepped forward and said something, myself included. I am not advocating for allowing players to brutally and graphically describe rape in game, but I don't think players should be limited by official guidelines around what is acceptable or not.

I am of the mind that if someone crosses the "line" then they will be reprimanded and action can be taken accordingly. (No idea what that would be). I think it was mentioned before, but if you find that a player or players are continually RPing things that you would rather not see, the ignore feature is there for that purpose..
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Bronnen on September 25, 2017, 10:52:28 PM
I don't see anything wrong at all with that kind of graphic description. I've seen far worse in the past (domitius family) and far more implausible ones (also domitius)
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Zakky on September 25, 2017, 11:21:15 PM
I think the guide lines are clear. As long as you don't involve someone else's character without permission, you can RP your character however you want. Also, RP actions are known. Random acts of violence is just that. How you define those acts are up to RPers. You also have options to ignore others RPs as well. If you don't like that RP, you can simply ignore like it has never happened around your character. Don't have to react to all the RPs.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Chenier on September 26, 2017, 01:31:21 AM
While it is generally best to self-moderate and avoid starting depravity contests, I do also think that repulsive roleplays are in many ways beneficial.

The game hints at a lot of brutality, some explicitely sexual in nature (looting), but it's all numbers in the background with but a brief mention, and it's easy to forget what our characters are actually doing in the simulated game world. Repulsive RPs help remind everyone how repulsive the game mechanics should be treated as.

The text in question describes a "random act of violence" pretty accurately, in my opinion. This is the kind of thing that the marshal is ordering you to do. Would you have even thought twice about doing hostile takeover options were it not for this roleplay?
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: steelabjur@aol.com on September 26, 2017, 02:12:19 AM
I think the rule about playing as if playing with friends at the dinner table applies here, if someone (or in this case three someones) say they don't like that sort of RP, don't do that sort of RP around them in the future. Not only are there young players, but players who suffered sexual violence who would rather not read that sort of stuff in a game where they came to relax and have fun.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Nosferatus on September 26, 2017, 07:57:46 AM
Not only are there young players, but players who suffered sexual violence who would rather not read that sort of stuff in a game where they came to relax and have fun.

Then they shouldn't have picked battle master, but instead monopoly or colonists of catan for example.
If you want to stay away from violence like that, then don't play violent games called 'battlemaster'.
Or find some boring realm where nobody ever role plays and everybody thinks brutal TO's are cuddle contests.

I am heavily opposed to any kind of censor here yet i understand the problems with some kind of rp's(not this one that much, seen and wrote much worse...).
The solution shouldn't be discussed here however but in game.
Your character can also be against violence, react in game and rescue or help the victim for example, or go after the guilty ones.

This rp is giving colour to the game and thats what the game needs.
Your possible reaction to it in game could do even more to get things going.
Both that RP and your reaction are what BM need's, just make sure it's all kept in game.

Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Gabanus family on September 26, 2017, 12:40:51 PM
Nosferatus, I think you're being a bit harsh here in your response, at least in the tone in which you wrote it.

I do understand the concerns if roleplaying becomes too distastefull and remains to be so. I've seen RP'ing where it seemed someone was just living out a rape fantasy or some sick !@#$ that had me disgusted years ago and also understand that the line for someone to be disgusted about something is different for everyone. This makes this discussion a bit difficult, as some find this RP to be over the top already, while others view this as acceptable and quite a realistic (not over the top) description of what is happening.

As said, the primary rule is that you can't RP someone else' char without their permission, but that is about the only solid rule that we've got.

Making solid guidelines on these matters would become impossible as everyone has different standards and if a compromise is reached you'll find those who think it's too harsh and those who think it's not harsh enough and both will be unhappy.

As a side-note, I do hope that when you ignore a character you also ignore their roleplays? So if you think someone is over the top for you, you can ignore him entirely?
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Chenier on September 26, 2017, 01:23:19 PM
Yes, you can mute someone in-game. That covers all of their messages. Or just *not read* their RPs (or RPs in general). I mean, that kind of thing only finds itself in RPs, and RPs pretty much never have important information for strictly game mechanics day to day things. You can also stop reading an RP the moment you start disliking it, nothing's forcing you to read the whole thing.

The world isn't a safe space. On the whole, I find the BM community to have been a mature one with these topics, without devolving to wanton depravity for the sake of it while also not devolving to puritan sanitizing.

The subject has come up a few times over the years. It's always the same: Yea, sometimes a few people go into sensitive places, but it doesn't get abused enough to be considered to really be of bad faith.

RPs is a form of literary art. And good art is one that makes you feel things. Not always good things.

And this one, in particular, doesn't really have any particularly depraved elements. He didn't go and write a 50000 word comprehensive description of a gratuitous rape. It was merely a brief passage of wanton violence that, in the end, fairly accurately describes what the game mechanics being used could imply. If you don't want to see this kind of thing, then have your characters petition for hostile takeovers to be banned. Because there's no way to nicely brutalize people into submission.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Anaris on September 26, 2017, 02:31:56 PM
I think the rule about playing as if playing with friends at the dinner table applies here, if someone (or in this case three someones) say they don't like that sort of RP, don't do that sort of RP around them in the future. Not only are there young players, but players who suffered sexual violence who would rather not read that sort of stuff in a game where they came to relax and have fun.

This is the correct answer here.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Gabanus family on September 26, 2017, 03:22:52 PM
Don't get me wrong Chenier, I personally find nothing wrong with this RP and I've probably written worse with either Aeneas or Goriad II, but it does not hurt to be empathetic to those who do take offense, not that you haven't been. I'm not saying we should change things because of it, but still.

And if they can be ignored and otherwise not read, I believe that that is sufficient to counter a RP you don't quite like.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Qureshima1 on September 26, 2017, 03:56:39 PM
Ok. Thanks for all the responses. I think we covered a lot of opinions and established the facts about current controls. This is my final statement and I leave it up to Game moderators if they want to pick up this issue or not. Since it hasn't been a widespread problem, it may not be worth dealing with.

1. I raised this because I've been playing BM for many years and I haven't been disturbed by previous posts, so I am no snowflake. This one did disturb me, I felt it was straying into unnecessary explicit brutality and maybe rape fantasy. I appreciate opinion is divided on that.

2. Currently the only restrictions are vulgar language and not Roleplaying other peoples characters. Neither of those restrictions apply here.

3. Here is a possible way to deal with it if you think its a problem. You could have a mechanism like the vulgarity rule where other players decided if a post contained excessive violence or sexual content.

4. Or continue to go on as we are. We have managed without any control so far. I guess that if any post was so excessive as to cause a massive amount of criticism then some action would be taken anyway.

And in the immortal words of Forest Gump "thats all I have to say about that".

Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Blint on September 26, 2017, 04:09:54 PM
Quote
Here is a possible way to deal with it if you think its a problem. You could have a mechanism like the vulgarity rule where other players decided if a post contained excessive violence or sexual content.

That seems like duplicating the Vulgarity mechanic..

Also in regards to your opinion about this being "excessively disturbing" while I respect your opinion. I wholeheartedly disagree. This was no where near explicit or graphic in terms of content. I wouldn't even classify this as anything close to Rape fantasy..

Not saying you're a snowflake, but I do feel that you might be being a bit oversensitive here...

I am of the opinion (and I think someone echoed it above..) that we are way to sensitive these days. The media and all this "Social Justice" has conditioned people to be so cautious and careful of what they say and do. Sometimes, and this is a very minor instance of this, I just want to scream, "Grow the F up and recognize that its not for you, and move on."

I don't mean for this to be a post where I am attacking anyone, I just get rather frustrated when I perceive people to be complaining about something being "too XYZ" for their taste so we should change the rules to make that never happen again. That's not how life works. The world isn't a cuddly safe space.

All in all, I think we have hammered this topic pretty much to oblivion.. It isn't a widespread issue, so I don't think there is any need for action to be taken.

I do also appreciate that we were able to have a civil and productive conversation about something that has the potential to be so polarizing.

END RANT.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: MTYL on September 26, 2017, 04:34:49 PM
Obscene or not, the first thing I've noticed about that RP is that it's very well written. Hell, I'm not sure if I'm this eloquent in my native language as this guy is in English.

And regarding graphic violence and sex - in my humble opinion there should be a system that would allow you to mark your RPs as such and they wouldn't be visible in news section unless you click at them (something like spoiler mechanic on forums). Shouldn't be too hard to implement and would allow both innocent children and people who enjoy going to the darker place enjoy the game.

For me personally this dark medieval realism that blossoms in some RPs is one of the best things in battlemaster. I never seen any censorship in BM before and I would be very disappointed  to see it. There is rare quality to ruthlessness in storytelling.

And that particular RP was very "safe" in my opinion. It wasn't something his character commited or any other PC, it was something observed. Of course OOC it was all born in this player's mind, but IC there was noone to put responsibility on. And even as such it wasn't that graphic.

If that's where we draw the line as a community, then very big part of this community will find itself on the wrong side of that line.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Gabanus family on September 26, 2017, 04:47:00 PM
If that's where we draw the line as a community, then very big part of this community will find itself on the wrong side of that line.

That's for sure. Part of why the RP was strong is also because it was a description of stuff actually happening in BM. I also love how certain chars actually refuse to do brutal TO's and some others who object when they have to do friendly TO's (actually only know one, but it's the idea that counts). But like mentioned earlier by someone else, it's sometimes easy to forget the brutalities our chars actually perform. I mean in essense most of our chars don't even view peasants as humans (just because they were born differently), which is of course the opposite of current culture. So in that way we're way off from our current world from the basics onwards.

Speaking of getting yourself on the wrong side of the line, I think it's your turn in Jarra's ever darker growing story...
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Logar on September 26, 2017, 06:15:18 PM
During reading the OP's first post, I was expecting something of a pornographic raping nature, but I found the RP not of the sort. The RP was fine in my oppinion.

My line is: anything that borders into pornographic detail = unsuitable. Blood and gore = acceptable.

There are worse horror films out there, Im sure many 12 year olds have sat down at watched.


Good to see this thread being mature and civilised.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: MTYL on September 27, 2017, 12:44:06 AM
There are worse horror films out there, Im sure many 12 year olds have sat down at watched.

Good to see this thread being mature and civilised.

Couldn't agree more.

Speaking of getting yourself on the wrong side of the line, I think it's your turn in Jarra's ever darker growing story...

I've been quite busy with RL and then when I finally got some time for quality RPs Jarra got wounded and stays wounded for over a week now. Just my luck I guess.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Chenier on September 27, 2017, 02:34:57 PM
Don't get me wrong Chenier, I personally find nothing wrong with this RP and I've probably written worse with either Aeneas or Goriad II, but it does not hurt to be empathetic to those who do take offense, not that you haven't been. I'm not saying we should change things because of it, but still.

And if they can be ignored and otherwise not read, I believe that that is sufficient to counter a RP you don't quite like.

Some people can have legitimate reasons to be more sensible to certain things, and this is understandable. But the growing trend towards excessive sanitization of anything that could ever be construed by anyone as perhaps offensive is nothing short of cancerous. There's a world between intentionally antagonizing people and not saying anything at all out of fear someone might disapprove. And in the end, people can be conditioned to have traumatic responses to just about anything, should we stop talking about dogs because one of our messages might be read by someone who've been at Abu Ghraib? That's just to give one example of how an object nearly-universally considered as benign could still trigger a wholly legitimate traumatic response in some. Furthermore, from what I've read, it is actually harmful to overly protect post-trauma victims from "triggering" material, the healthy thing for these people is not avoidance, but coping, moving on.

The most acceptable compromise I could think of is giving players an option to tick a box "this message may contain delicate subject matter", and then offering every player to tick a box on their player page "hide all messages flagged as containing potentially delicate matter". Perhaps players would also be able to flag other messages as such. But: no sanctions! The premise for such a system needs to be an understanding that everyone's limits are different and that this isn't meant as a tool of censorship and that there is no desire to reprimand those that use it.

Still, I loathe the implications of such a mechanic. If you start allowing semi-censorship by flagging others, you are certain to increase the reach of these messages, because they will inevitably end up on the forum for discussion and debate. You are also implying "go ahead and write all the nasties you want, you can just tick them off anyways", which would likely increase their prevalence IG. The likely result is simply overemphasizing that which was otherwise marginal.

I'm all for reasonable accommodation of special needs, but the emphasis is on reasonable, and that requires respect both ways. When considering the harm words can do, one must also consider the harm censorship can do.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Nosferatus on September 27, 2017, 02:58:24 PM


My line is: anything that borders into pornographic detail = unsuitable. Blood and gore = acceptable.

Can you perhaps explain your opinion here?
I don't understand why violence would be fine and sex unsuitable or unacceptable.

Personally I find any kind of porn writing ridiculous, the goal of porn is to cause arousal not necessarily tell a story.
In that way you could call it unsuitable as the goal would be to tell a story or add color to events that happen in game, not just to arouse.
I'd call a porn RP probably just a bad RP if it lacks this kind of value.
But that doesn't mean it should be banned or censored in BM, or we can just ban all 'bad' rp's.
Whats offensive or shocking is even more subjective and hard to determine.
Apparently you'd be more offended by pornographic texts then a description of brutal violence for example.
Where I'd be more shocked by violence.
It's very hard for an individual to describe where the line would be crossed and that line is very different for every individual.
Any attempt at finding a middle way wouldn't work any better then doing nothing.
The ignore feature in BM is more then enough to deal with sources of serious shock or offense.
People who write shocking rps can think of adding a warning on top of their rp and perhaps players can be informed upon joining BM of the possibility of being confronted with all kinds of shocking things.
Because BM is a sandbox game and the context is all player based, which is for many of us the beauty of BM.
We shouldn't meddle with that.


Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Chenier on September 27, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
Also to be considered that this game is international and that different cultures have different taboos.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Blint on September 27, 2017, 05:54:10 PM
Quote
Quote from Nosferatus:
It's very hard for an individual to describe where the line would be crossed and that line is very different for every individual.
Any attempt at finding a middle way wouldn't work any better then doing nothing.
The ignore feature in BM is more then enough to deal with sources of serious shock or offense.
People who write shocking rps can think of adding a warning on top of their rp and perhaps players can be informed upon joining BM of the possibility of being confronted with all kinds of shocking things.
Because BM is a sandbox game and the context is all player based, which is for many of us the beauty of BM.
We shouldn't meddle with that.

I could not agree more.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Vamking12 on September 27, 2017, 05:58:51 PM
This is pretty mundane stuff for a hostile takeover, from the way you described I assumed it would be a five paragraph description of him thrusting into a ten year old girl while she screams in pain, not generic raping and pillaging that did happen during the middle ages.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: MTYL on September 29, 2017, 09:35:59 AM
Furthermore, from what I've read, it is actually harmful to overly protect post-trauma victims from "triggering" material

That's true. In fact attempts to shield traumatized people from this or that content are almost always hilariously naive, pathetic even. Seeing a big sign saying "there's no excessively violent content here, we removed it all" is for many people just as bad as seeing the excessively violent conent. It furtherly reinforces their feeling of being psychologically "scarred" and different and denies them ability to face it and attempt to develop a healthy reaction to such content.


People who write shocking rps can think of adding a warning on top of their rp and perhaps players can be informed upon joining BM of the possibility of being confronted with all kinds of shocking things.
Because BM is a sandbox game and the context is all player based, which is for many of us the beauty of BM.
We shouldn't meddle with that.

Yep.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Logar on September 29, 2017, 10:35:45 AM
Can you perhaps explain your opinion here?
I don't understand why violence would be fine and sex unsuitable or unacceptable.

Personally I find any kind of porn writing ridiculous, the goal of porn is to cause arousal not necessarily tell a story.
In that way you could call it unsuitable as the goal would be to tell a story or add color to events that happen in game, not just to arouse.
I'd call a porn RP probably just a bad RP if it lacks this kind of value.


You pretty much answered the question for me there.

There is a difference between 'erotic' and 'pornographic'. I simply consider 'pornographic' content bad manners. Its already slapped in our faces everytime you go online. For the record, I have never seen anybody in BM post anything of the sort, I was just answering the question. I do find the quality of most RP's ect. exceedingly good.

I do not believe any changes to the current system are needed at all. Leave it as it is. If it aint broke don't fix it.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: Eduardo Almighty on October 03, 2017, 03:58:10 PM
After 11 years of BM, if you played with my characters, you've probably seen a bit of everything (violence, gore, erotic, a bit of graphic porno, etc...). If not, the wiki is there with a lot of everything.

You always have the option to skip to the next message.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: CryptCypher on December 06, 2017, 12:49:58 PM
I think the rule about playing as if playing with friends at the dinner table applies here, if someone (or in this case three someones) say they don't like that sort of RP, don't do that sort of RP around them in the future. Not only are there young players, but players who suffered sexual violence who would rather not read that sort of stuff in a game where they came to relax and have fun.

Aramon, I am one such person. Rape-torture survivor, former volunteer sexual abuse group counselor. Major PTSD from the age of 6-7, struggle with lifelong flashbacks, anxiety attacks, the whole nine yards and then some... I for one see no problem with this RP, as it is both describing exactly what these methods of brutal takeover imply, and it was done in a manner entirely parallel to actual historical accounts. I feel it is vital in reminding us that brutal tactics are in fact BRUTAL. Not noble. Not just. Not fair. Not kind. Not liberating. BRUTAL. That nobles and governments who engage in such behavior should be condemned IC, where ethics demand a reaction as dictated by one's culture.

You want bad? Read up on the treatment of the Celtic Queen Boudicca by the Romans. *shudder* There's also a reason why the vast majority of living Asians share the blood of the Khan dynasty. Mongol Empire raped and pillaged most of the known world before converting from Tengri to Islam and settling down.

Not to mention, you did not complain when whats-his-face did those torturing, maiming, and sadistically murdering peasants then wearing their flesh as ornaments RPs that one guy did when I first formed Xavax. That stuff was way worse in comparison... Just saying.
Title: Re: Can graphic violence or sex in Role Plays become unacceptable in BM?
Post by: CryptCypher on December 06, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
Chenier is absolutely right. Its facing your traumas that take away their power. Not hiding from them.

The day I stopped hiding from it, it began losing power. I much prefer the rare flashback I get rather than what I used to go through... Its the same for all the survivors I know and love. You buckle-in and you persevere.

Hell, its a central tenet of the healing process we uphold: come to terms with the truth, bring darkness unto light, and take away the power it holds over us. Stop being a victim and become a SURVIVOR! As long as we remain victims, we are powerless against our traumas. That's why everyone from rape to combat survivors begin to find solace the day they come to terms with their reality. Sure, it hurts at first. Flashbacks are horrible, but repression is far, FAR worse.

It is better to strike an honest, healthy equilibrium than to puritanically repress and empower the very demons you seek to cage.