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BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Zakky on November 17, 2017, 09:47:12 PM

Title: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 17, 2017, 09:47:12 PM
At the moment it doesn't matter you win or lose, you will end up losing morale from a battle no matter what.

I think winners should gain moral depending on how badly they win. If it was an even battle yet you managed to destroy your enemies in a crushing victory, then you should gain a huge morale boost. (Not sure if morale should be on average be around 80% and only allow to be higher than that when something special happens like a victory or mercenary. If it is to stay around 100%, maybe temporarily allowing morale to be above 100% then gradually reducing it over time wouldn't be a bad idea as well)

As for daily morale gain, it should probably be reduced and changed. Maybe at most you gain 1 morale per turn at most. You can still pay for entertainments in cities to quickly raise it however. Losing battles will definitely reduce morale a lot especially when you lose with more men and CS. If you retreat successfully, you will lose less morale from your defeat but if you scatter, you will lose more morale on top of the amount you already lose from losing your battle. If you won but your unit scattered, you will lose morale and will not receive morale bonus from winning.

Just an idea to change the current system.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Anaris on November 17, 2017, 10:52:57 PM
Soldiers don't like losing their friends. And it is at least supposed to be true that some units like battle more than others (three possible types: those that dislike battle, those that like battle, and those that are neutral).

Have you been making these observations with a variety of different units? Because unless you lose a large percentage of your unit, I believe there should be a decent chance of morale gain already when you win a battle.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Wimpie on November 17, 2017, 11:14:48 PM
We might need to gather some statistics on this one.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 17, 2017, 11:46:19 PM
We might need to gather some statistics on this one.

I agree with this one.

In all my years playing BM, I've hardly seen any case on gaining morale. Even when my unit was never touched while slaughtering enemies. I think when you say losing friends, it should be strictly from your own unit. Despite this, I've lost up to 20~30 morale depending on how far away my unit was from their lands. Usually you gain morale not from battles but turn changes.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: CryptCypher on November 18, 2017, 01:09:08 AM
Aye, as much as it sucks to lose countrymen in battle, it stands to reason that resounding victory would provide at least a modicum of increased morale...
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 18, 2017, 01:17:56 AM
I know men can become demoralized for losing their friends but let's not forget we are not recruiting peasants. We are recruiting professional soldiers who know what they've signed up for. I think they would be happy to have survived, won and gotten paid.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Gabanus family on November 18, 2017, 07:54:31 AM
I remember keeping mental notes of this, but moral increases do happen. Had Goriad in Eidulb fighting battle after battle against rogues. Most times even without casulties (important to note I think, never had casulties) I saw a moral decrease after the battles, but sometimes it would randomly increase after a battle.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 18, 2017, 08:03:11 AM
If it is only happening randomly, it definitely should be ironed out a bit more. It should be consistent not random. That's why I think unless your men scatter, retreat, or held their line despite heavy casualties, you should gain morale. You don't see men cheering for victories for nothing when they win.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Wimpie on November 18, 2017, 11:17:14 AM
I remember keeping mental notes of this, but moral increases do happen. Had Goriad in Eidulb fighting battle after battle against rogues. Most times even without casulties (important to note I think, never had casulties) I saw a moral decrease after the battles, but sometimes it would randomly increase after a battle.

Did some quick check with my character on BT who has been fighting monster/undead hordes regularly on his own with Archers. He always takes out the hordes without getting any casualty, but the morale loss usually is around 8%, sometimes only just as much as 1% though.

Although, this is 1 unit. As Delvin pointed out, there can be differences in likings from unit to unit. That's why would need some more statistics. I don't always check, but I haven't seen much morale increasing in my BM life either. At least to my best knowledge.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 18, 2017, 07:28:11 PM
For the past 3 battles where my character on a test island lost 4 - 0 - 9 men, his unit lost 2 - 16 - 4.

However, the unit retreated all three times.

Another character's unit on EC lost 10 morale while losing 0 man. The unit did not retreat and it won the battle.

Will definitely need more data but I don't think there is any good logic behind the morale gain/loss at the moment. So far, just losses and the result of battle doesn't seem to affect it that much.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 19, 2017, 06:55:04 AM
Gained 6 morale from fighting monsters without losing any man. So Anaris was right about gaining morale from winning but it seems it doesn't happen often enough. It should happen whenever you are winning and not losing too many men I think. Maybe as long as your loss is less than 20% you gain morale while 20% to 30% your morale should stay the same?
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: CryptCypher on November 19, 2017, 03:40:51 PM
Gained 6 morale from fighting monsters without losing any man. So Anaris was right about gaining morale from winning but it seems it doesn't happen often enough. It should happen whenever you are winning and not losing too many men I think. Maybe as long as your loss is less than 20% you gain morale while 20% to 30% your morale should stay the same?

(Pre-post edit: Huh. Went from a tie-in to a fully-fledged suggestion of mechanics pipedream. Woops.)

Tie it into training and cohesion. A well-trained, cohesive unit would logically face fewer devastating morale drops and more morale gains than a badly-trained and mismanaged unit of green recruits. A squad of privates out escorting staff sergeant McOorah to his favorite "midnight funhouse" should freak out and lose morale for any minor loss, up to devastating morale drop for serious loss or retreat under fire as opposed to an all-hands-on-deck tactical retreat, which would be relatively or completely bloodless and a non-issue to veteran forces... Whereas a veteran squad can lose vital manpower and still retain some semblance of dignity/fighting spirit, where a green unit would lose its [email protected]#$ and face collapse/mutiny/desertion.

Not to mention, a unit's commanding officer (noble retainer, maybe marshals) being wounded should have some sort of tangible effect on morale. After all, these damn peasants are nothing without the chain of command, which that enemy volley just pincushioned and knocked out of commission. "Dafuq do we do now?!"

That should totally, totally be a thing by the way. Mutiny, desertion, and-or chain-of-command events would be amazing (scripted? random-ish?)... Hell, can you imagine a priest/diplomat/hero/marshal/ruler doing one of those gloriously infamous and rare speeches pre-major-battle, or receiving a divine omen or what have you, and affecting morale of all those in the region/adjacent who belong to the relevant army/nation/faith? Or diplomat, assassin, or trader pulling some sort of skullduggery/bribery/offered-beeches and suddenly a portion of Noble McHero's elite units decide they'd rather serve Clever McMoneyBags, or a portion of the newly-recruited archer battalion takes a nice forward-advance payment of 3/5/10x their daily pay and screws off to the nearest bar/"funhouse"? Perhaps they can be convinced to return to their prior employer by bribing/imprison/executing their mutineer commander, or just return on their own after a drunken night gone AWOL right before that major battle... Maybe Sneaky McDagger sneaks in and poisons their dinner: subsequent parade-march of brown-stained pants and unscheduled trips to the nearest crap-hole temporarily(!) damages unit morale/cohesion, because your elite paladins are no good if their stomachs are clawing their insides and the smell of dribbled feces permeates the once-proud ranks of your forward battleline. Can you imagine how much it would SUCK to crap yourself in a suit of platemail+helm? Not to mention the chafing, chance of infected hemorrhoids from dysentery-like "eruption", and having to be shield-buddies with a guy who smells like a giant tin can of rotted gluteous maximus... Hell, maybe some ingenious trader drops some MAJOR coin to "acquire" the enemy's ore shipments and replace their superior steel with some shoddy low-quality iron, which gives a one-time/temporary malus to recruitment center quality/weapons/armor/training/etc. Do this the turn of/prior to an RC's construction and you risk (semi?)permanent damage to what would have been a better RC, bumping it down a tier in overall or trait-specific quality, simulating the historic loss of vital supply routes, resources, intel, and manpower that severely altered the outcome of battles and wars in our history books. *cough shoddy aluminium making Japanese Zero's akin to wet tissue paper, and a massive lack of oil which severely limited their mechanized capabilities, allowing allied forces to decimate them with ease cough* (not to mention the cultural impetus for unassailable aggression coupled with a disdain for defensive tactics and the dependence on blitzkrieg-style one-off banzai attacks and suicide-upon-defeat that failed in the face of the allies' superior logistical train, defensive-offensive mixed tactics, and a drawn-out war that rapidly outpaced Japan's ability to supply its forces. Lets not even get into the death of millions of Japanese citizens through starvation/firebombing/etc that make Hiroshima and Nagasaki's deathtoll seem tame.)

Speaking of, to make nations/religions/regions more unique, perhaps one day we can go beyond mere RP and have mechanics of some sort of basic skeletal "culture system". Nations opt out by default, of course, but nations who want to follow a serious theme can opt into certain realm-wide or region-specific cultural mechanics that "may" RNGesus things on a broad spectrum, tailoring the realm to better reflect their chosen image. Opting out by characters/nations/regions would just default to the norm, eliminating both maluses AND bonuses. (which exist in a dualistic give-and-take fashion as common sense dictates) like unit cohesion/training (ex: Spartans=bonus to training, malus to raw trainee volume? Persian slave-army=malus to training, bonus to RC raw trainee numbers? Opt out is neutral, spartan is training-focus for fewer troops, persian is more troops for crappier quality?), population growth/birth rate, monster spawn rate (heresy/anarchy/demon cults), agricultural yield/stability/volume (locusts, pollution, nitrate deficiency, evil omen, slash&burn, slave labor, hunter-gatherer focus, whatever), tax collection/region loyalty (greedy=more gold less loyalty/productivity; less gold-higher-loyalty/productivity), paraphernalia availability/cost (ex: medicus corps/health focus means more and cheaper healers, or more numerous but more expensive healers (+1 gold per pay cycle?) or faster wound healing, with associated maluses for balance), so forth. Hell, it'd be extremely interesting if characters retain the culture the last opted into upon moving to a new/different realm, effectively making it so that different regions/cities within a nation are affected by the cultures of their citizens, creating an incredibly dynamic meta-cultural flux that affects the realm, its individual regions, and the lords/knights or those regions in interesting ways. Hell, one could strike out the mechanics bonus/malus altogether in favor of a random-event system where adopted cultural paradigms opt you into, or make more likely, the incidence of certain random events while detracting from the chances/impact of others?

Hey, we can fabricate documents to buy friggin CITIES. Why not add some fun and sow chaos into the ranks of noble and soldier alike by using tactics that bear historical precedent in their varied usage. Not to mention it adds plenty of fun for different classes and incredible depth to nations, religions, guilds, and the like.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Wimpie on November 19, 2017, 04:52:26 PM
Wait, there is no TL;DR?
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Bronnen on November 20, 2017, 04:18:02 PM
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 15 points. Your men's equipment suffers 1 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.

Battle Results   (22 hours, 6 minutes ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Girich. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 9 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 3 points.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 5 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 3 points.

all three of those were victories.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Anaris on November 20, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
all three of those were victories.

All the same unit, or different ones?
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Bronnen on November 20, 2017, 04:24:29 PM


Can you imagine how much it would SUCK to crap yourself in a suit of platemail+helm? Not to mention the chafing, chance of infected hemorrhoids from dysentery-like "eruption", and having to be shield-buddies with a guy who smells like a giant tin can of rotted gluteous maximus...

That was kind of what they did though. They didn't have time to take off all their armor, they just went where they were lol. It's kind of part of the package.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: CryptCypher on November 20, 2017, 10:12:26 PM
Bronnen, ah - the glories of medieval warfare. :P

"Oi, knight, ya scared boy?! Ya done shat yerself!"

"Couldnat git me vambraces an trousers off, damn armor-straps locked tighter than a virgin's arse!"

"Aye, thas why some bathe in the river, wash off the blood and [email protected]#$ real proper"
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Bronnen on November 21, 2017, 03:25:57 PM
All the same unit, or different ones?

Three different units.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on November 27, 2017, 09:29:13 PM
Battle Results   (3 hours, 14 minutes ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Fronepu. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 0 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 6 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 3 points.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Anderfhstim on December 09, 2017, 06:42:08 AM

Battle Results   (32 minutes ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Viseu. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 0 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 6 points. Your men's equipment suffers 1 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Anderfhstim on December 19, 2017, 07:29:18 PM
Battle Results   (5 days, 1 hour ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Eidulb. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 0 Honour.
Your captain has improved his skill level.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 5 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.

Battle Results   (4 days, 13 hours ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Eidulb. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour and 1 Prestige.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 15 points. Your men's equipment suffers 1 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 5 points.

Battle Results   (2 days, 13 hours ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Sabadell. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 3 Honour and 2 Prestige.
You have improved your leadership skill.
36 of your men were killed and 36 were wounded in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 5 points. Your men's equipment suffers 5 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.

Battle Results   (13 hours, 18 minutes ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Gelene Outskirts. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 1 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 4 points.

Battle Results   (1 hour, 12 minutes ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Gelene Outskirts. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 17 points. Your men's equipment suffers 2 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.

Battle Results   (16 minutes ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Gelene Outskirts. Your scribe has written down a battle report as a Scribe Note.
The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour.
You have improved your leadership skill.
Your captain has improved his skill level.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 11 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 3 points.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Shepard on September 16, 2018, 10:58:25 PM
Battle Results   (7 days, 16 hours ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Fheuvenem. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 0 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 6 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 1 points.
star

Battle Results   (6 days, 4 hours ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Sandlakes. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 0 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 7 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.
star

Battle Results   (5 days, 4 hours ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Sandlakes. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour and 1 Prestige.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 21 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 3 points.
star

Battle Results   (4 days, 16 hours ago)
Your unit participated in a battle in Pequad. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour and 1 Prestige.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 15 points. Your men's equipment suffers 2 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 1 points.
star

Battle Results   (4 days, 4 hours ago)

Your unit participated in a battle in Tsamn. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour and 1 Prestige.
You have improved your leadership skill.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 9 points. Your men's equipment suffers 1 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 4 points.
star

Battle Results   (3 days, 16 hours ago)

Your unit participated in a battle in Drinilla. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 2 Honour and 2 Prestige.
You have improved your leadership skill.
None of your men were killed but 6 were wounded in this battle.
Your unit gains 3 points of Morale. Your men's equipment suffers 8 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.
star

Battle Results   (3 days, 4 hours ago)

Your unit participated in a battle in Drinilla. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour and 1 Prestige.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Your unit gains 2 points of Morale. Your men's equipment suffers 1 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 1 points.
star

Battle Results   (2 days, 4 hours ago)

Your unit participated in a battle in Pequad. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 2 Honour and 1 Prestige.
You have improved your leadership skill.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 27 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 3 points.
star

Battle Results   (1 day, 4 hours ago)

Your unit participated in a battle in Tsamn. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 2 Honour and 1 Prestige.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 17 points. Your men's equipment suffers 1 % damage. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 4 points.
star

Battle Results   (4 hours, 38 minutes ago)

Your unit participated in a battle in Drinilla. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 2 hours.
You have gained 1 Honour and 1 Prestige.
You have improved your leadership skill.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 27 points. Combat training increases by 1 points. Unit cohesion rises 2 points.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Medron Pryde on September 18, 2018, 12:04:16 PM
That approximates my experience as well.

My units most often lose between 5 and 10% morale after fighting a victorious battle.  And they lose between 11 and 20% morale after a losing battle.

I can't remember ever gaining morale after a battle.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on September 18, 2018, 09:48:53 PM
Yeah. That's why I created this page. I think winning battles should increase your morale unless you took heavy losses. If you've managed to retreat orderly, you should not lose as much morale compared to getting scattered. Scattered should probably lower your morale greatly, forcing you to take a turn or two leaking your wounds.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Stabbity on September 18, 2018, 10:08:57 PM
Even winning battles can be bad for morale. People died. Your men saw horrific things, and worst of all, actually had to do something, instead of sit around and get paid. Who wants to fight a battle anyway? Psychopaths.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Vita on September 18, 2018, 11:16:23 PM
I concur with Stabbity.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Anaris on September 18, 2018, 11:22:44 PM
So do I, but I think the numbers are still a bit low right now.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on September 19, 2018, 06:14:22 AM
So do I, but I think the numbers are still a bit low right now.

I think when your unit scatters, you should be at the brink of losing your entire unit by lowering your morale close to 20.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Stabbity on September 19, 2018, 06:40:26 AM
At the same time, a unit coming out of a major battle largely unscathed that already had kind of lowish morale should have a chance to gain morale, from the "Holy [email protected]#$, we actually survived." sheer relief factor.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on September 19, 2018, 11:37:07 AM
At the same time, a unit coming out of a major battle largely unscathed that already had kind of lowish morale should have a chance to gain morale, from the "Holy [email protected]#$, we actually survived." sheer relief factor.

Or when you win a battle you had a less chance of winning. Either CS difference or number of men difference.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Ketchum on September 20, 2018, 05:26:14 AM
We win the battle in Nimh today with no casualties. And our men morale drop even when we at verge of completing Takeover.

Battle Results
 
(Personal message) - 10 hours, 16 minutes ago

Your unit participated in a battle in Nimh. Your scribe has written down a battle report.

The battle lasted for 1 hours.
You have gained 0 Honour.
None of your men were killed in this battle.
Morale of your troops falls by 17 points.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Medron Pryde on September 25, 2018, 06:46:26 PM
That's one of those things were it seems at cross purposes to the adrenaline high that soldiers get in battle.

High fives at having slaughtered the enemy.  Burning enemy flags.  Looting enemy corpses.  Enjoying the companionship of enemy women.

Having a gay old time.

And...wait...moral dropped?  Huh?  ;)

Just saying.  That seems really weird to me.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Stabbity on September 25, 2018, 08:57:47 PM
That's one of those things were it seems at cross purposes to the adrenaline high that soldiers get in battle.

High fives at having slaughtered the enemy.  Burning enemy flags.  Looting enemy corpses.  Enjoying the companionship of enemy women.

Having a gay old time.

And...wait...moral dropped?  Huh?  ;)

Just saying.  That seems really weird to me.

But now we have to bury the dead, and wash my best friend Jim off my armor.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Medron Pryde on September 26, 2018, 07:17:26 AM
If nobody died, you didn't lose your best friend Jim.  And if only one or five people died, it was probably the new kid that just signed up in town.

And who takes time BURYING bodies?  Sheesh.  Just stack them up like cord wood and set fire to whole town to make certain everything burns down to a nice, sanitary, ash.

;)

Now here IS an interesting idea.  Those units with lower cohesion wouldn't care so much about casualties because they don't like/know the others as well.  While units with high cohesion would really feel bad about losing people.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on September 26, 2018, 07:45:03 AM
If nobody died, you didn't lose your best friend Jim.  And if only one or five people died, it was probably the new kid that just signed up in town.

And who takes time BURYING bodies?  Sheesh.  Just stack them up like cord wood and set fire to whole town to make certain everything burns down to a nice, sanitary, ash.

;)

Now here IS an interesting idea.  Those units with lower cohesion wouldn't care so much about casualties because they don't like/know the others as well.  While units with high cohesion would really feel bad about losing people.

This. That is actually a really interesting idea. Everyone thinks you should lose morale even if you win or lose. I think that is just ridiculous. Then pillaging should increase your morale greatly since you are gaining a lot of wealth in a relatively short period of time.

Again, I think there should be some kind of difference between scattered and retreated. Why do we even have two different statuses when they are practically the same?
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Stabbity on September 26, 2018, 08:28:34 PM
If nobody died, you didn't lose your best friend Jim.  And if only one or five people died, it was probably the new kid that just signed up in town.

And who takes time BURYING bodies?  Sheesh.  Just stack them up like cord wood and set fire to whole town to make certain everything burns down to a nice, sanitary, ash.

;)

Now here IS an interesting idea.  Those units with lower cohesion wouldn't care so much about casualties because they don't like/know the others as well.  While units with high cohesion would really feel bad about losing people.

"I've been drug from my home and family to fight in a war I don't understand and those dead people could easily have been me under different circumstances. This armor is heavy, it chafes, this camp is rife with disease, the food sucks, and we're constantly on edge hoping a larger army doesn't come and murder us." - every BM soldier ever.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Medron Pryde on September 28, 2018, 09:17:06 AM
Not really, actually.

BM soldiers are recruited and trained in the art of war (or at least their little part of it) and then paid cold hard gold to do it.

The more like high end Men At Arms than standard civilians drafted to fight.  We lead the professionals into battle with us.  Professionals who volunteered.

Yes, they can sometimes be drafted, but that is rare and causes MASSIVE realm control loss.  Hence why it is so rare.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Zakky on September 28, 2018, 10:05:23 AM
"I've been drug from my home and family to fight in a war I don't understand and those dead people could easily have been me under different circumstances. This armor is heavy, it chafes, this camp is rife with disease, the food sucks, and we're constantly on edge hoping a larger army doesn't come and murder us." - every BM soldier ever.

We are not recruiting peasants here...
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Stabbity on September 28, 2018, 09:30:48 PM
We are not recruiting peasants here...

Yes, you are.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Stabbity on September 28, 2018, 09:35:29 PM
Not really, actually.

BM soldiers are recruited and trained in the art of war (or at least their little part of it) and then paid cold hard gold to do it.

The more like high end Men At Arms than standard civilians drafted to fight.  We lead the professionals into battle with us.  Professionals who volunteered.

Yes, they can sometimes be drafted, but that is rare and causes MASSIVE realm control loss.  Hence why it is so rare.

And mostly likely they're men who had to seek the profession out to provide for their families, hoping to find themselves recruited into a cushy militia unit, or left to hang out in a recruit depot unnoticed for all time. Professional armies in this time were mercenary companies, and definitely not a staple.... And definitely not recruited by mere Knights. Now, I think morale loss during battle should be related to training, as more highly trained soldiers are likely to be a bit more hardened to it, but it should never eliminate it.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: Medron Pryde on October 01, 2018, 12:41:39 PM
It has been a decade since any of us have played mere knights.

We are high nobility now, with knights of our own that help us command our units and make them better in combat.  We only recruit the very best of Men At Arms to wear our noble livery.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: JeVondair on October 08, 2018, 10:41:29 PM
Not sure if here is the correct place to ask, but has the morale settings for rogue units been changed in the last couple years? I seem to recall it being easier for archers to break monster/undead morale in battle. If memory serves, taking a few rounds of fire while closing to melee was usually enough for a comparatively smaller force of archers to break them.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: MTYL on October 08, 2018, 10:51:10 PM
Not sure if here is the correct place to ask, but has the morale settings for rogue units been changed in the last couple years? I seem to recall it being easier for archers to break monster/undead morale in battle. If memory serves, taking a few rounds of fire while closing to melee was usually enough for a comparatively smaller force of archers to break them.

Monster - yes. It's still pretty easy, I haven't really noticed the change (other than archer code change that made archers silly).

Undead - iirc they never flee. Never ever. Makes sense if you  think about it - wildlife would run from certain death but why on earth would undead run from anything. You played Lich Queen on EC, you tell me if she'd run from battle. :P
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: PolarRaven on October 08, 2018, 10:57:54 PM
Not sure if here is the correct place to ask, but has the morale settings for rogue units been changed in the last couple years? I seem to recall it being easier for archers to break monster/undead morale in battle. If memory serves, taking a few rounds of fire while closing to melee was usually enough for a comparatively smaller force of archers to break them.
The undead have no morale and will normally fight to the last "man".
Monsters will, normally, still retreat once enough damage is done to them (morale check?).

I have not noticed any "morale" changes in recent times, but the fact that there are sooo many more of them may change how they appear to act.
Title: Re: Morale changes
Post by: JeVondair on October 08, 2018, 11:52:50 PM

You played Lich Queen on EC, you tell me if she'd run from battle. :P


Years later, I actually regret that I was not bold enough to RP her that way.

The undead have no morale and will normally fight to the last "man".Monsters will, normally, still retreat once enough damage is done to them (morale check?).I have not noticed any "morale" changes in recent times, but the fact that there are sooo many more of them may change how they appear to act.


Thanks! I guess its been so longs since I actually had a character that fought rogues I'd entirely forgotten. These days you can't kick a rock without finding a monster or undead underneath, so what you say about numbers makes a lot of sense to me now that I think about it.