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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Vita` on September 16, 2018, 05:20:45 PM

Title: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Vita` on September 16, 2018, 05:20:45 PM
It is a tradition in BattleMaster for family fame (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Fame) points to remain unknown until successfully guessed by players. A few months of Goodies are given as a reward.

In 2004, a contest, LemonFame (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/LemonFame), was held to guess fame points. In 2006, Lemon Fame 2 (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lemon_Fame_2) was held. Inspired by the recent successful guess by Lefanis, I think it's long overdue to have Lemon Fame 3 within this thread.

There is also a Fame Box (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Fame_Box), which holds a highly-accurate player-built template system for family pages on the wiki.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Bluelake on September 18, 2018, 04:10:39 AM
Checking the http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Fame (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Fame) page, I think it's missing at least two known points?

Successful rebellion and 50% swordfighting skill?

What about taking control of an army, it's not even in the hints? Are there hints for the new fame points added later? Honestly, this is all very very confusing. New fame, old fame, new hints, old hints...
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on September 18, 2018, 08:46:10 AM
Well, if we are guessing, I would say that a "legendary" hero death would be the death of a hero who holds a council position or possibly a title of Duke/Duchess.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Andrew on September 18, 2018, 01:20:09 PM
Well, if we are guessing, I would say that a "legendary" hero death would be the death of a hero who holds a council position or possibly a title of Duke/Duchess.

I got it with a character years and years ago that was neither a lord or a council member. Guess again! :)
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on September 18, 2018, 07:53:45 PM
I got it with a character years and years ago that was neither a lord or a council member. Guess again! :)
Sadly, I did not start to pay attention to fame until I realized that I was in the top twenty or so.
It is possible that I obtained it years ago as well.

It's hard to keep track of new ones, when I had no idea which ones I already had.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on September 19, 2018, 02:53:51 PM
Legendary Hero status has been my belief that it requires over 100 honour. Gilth received the points when he died. He had only ever been a knight, not even a region lord.

Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on September 19, 2018, 09:58:13 PM
Legendary Hero status has been my belief that it requires over 100 honour. Gilth received the points when he died. He had only ever been a knight, not even a region lord.
100 Honour seems a little low for legendary.
Did he die in a battle that his unit went on to win after his death?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on September 20, 2018, 02:17:13 AM
Not sure, but I had a hero on an old account who died, and the battle was won, and he only got me one Fame Point.

I don't think 100 seems low. The majority of characters in BM have lower than 100 honor.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Shepard on September 22, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
I just got a fame point this morning and no important thing happened except one of my character gained a point of honour from battle and the total family honour became 110.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on September 22, 2018, 03:14:39 PM
I just got a fame point this morning and no important thing happened except one of my character gained a point of honour from battle and the total family honour became 110.

Then something else must have happened, because there are no fame points for honour.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Shepard on September 22, 2018, 04:32:22 PM
Other than that none of the characters did anything except scouting regions and traveling. And my Judge character holding a harsh court.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on September 24, 2018, 04:48:13 AM
Is it possible you just noticed it but it happened earlier? I certainly don't check my fame on a daily basis. Anything significant happen in the past week(s)?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Shepard on September 24, 2018, 12:05:11 PM
Is it possible you just noticed it but it happened earlier? I certainly don't check my fame on a daily basis. Anything significant happen in the past week(s)?

Definitely was 8 fame at night, after morning turn it became 9 fame. 3 days before that, the banker sold food from my region to a city, so there could be a chance its the Trader fame but 1. I didn't sell the food 2. It was 3 days before I got the point 3. I am pretty sure the city wasn't starving.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Wimpie on September 24, 2018, 12:14:16 PM
Nope, then it's definitely not the Trader fame.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: MTYL on September 24, 2018, 04:13:24 PM
Is it just selling to starving region or also buying for starving region?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on September 24, 2018, 08:37:08 PM
I am pretty sure the key is selling for a loss to a starving region. I think.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Wimpie on September 25, 2018, 09:22:30 AM
Is it just selling to starving region or also buying for starving region?

https://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,8389.0/msg,168660.html
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on October 08, 2018, 10:50:39 PM
I got it with a character years and years ago that was neither a lord or a council member. Guess again! :)

OK, I will.   ;D
Now that I know I have already received the fame points for a "Legendary Hero" I will offer another, more educated guess.

A "Legendary Hero" is one who fights alone (only his unit) against a superior foe and dies in the battle.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: JeVondair on October 08, 2018, 11:55:15 PM
Rising from the Dead?  ::)
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Andrew on October 12, 2018, 08:35:03 AM
OK, I will.   ;D
Now that I know I have already received the fame points for a "Legendary Hero" I will offer another, more educated guess.

A "Legendary Hero" is one who fights alone (only his unit) against a superior foe and dies in the battle.

Nope, try again.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 15, 2018, 09:11:56 AM
No, Legendary Hero is a status change. There would be a lot more junior heroes buried as legends if it just required a pitched battle.

I think there is some sort of time in factor. Perhaps,


I don't think I have ever clicked on a name from the Legendary Hero burial message and seen a character with less than 100 honor. That makes me think it is something that gets accumulated.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Vita` on October 15, 2018, 11:06:29 AM
  • A certain amount of hon/pres gained while a hero?

...snipped...

I don't think I have ever clicked on a name from the Legendary Hero burial message and seen a character with less than 100 honor. That makes me think it is something that gets accumulated.
You are looking in the right direction...

PS: Sorry to those I haven't responded to directly yet - I will.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Lefanis on October 17, 2018, 12:00:10 PM
I don't think I have ever clicked on a name from the Legendary Hero burial message and seen a character with less than 100 honor. That makes me think it is something that gets accumulated.

I would think that legendary part of the hero has more to do with prestige than honor- nothing to do with the time spent as hero, or accumulation or battles. Just the pure H/P values. My own legendary hero had 111 honor and 27 prestige at death. So I am going to say that to be a legendary hero you need to have 25 prestige. Perhaps 100 honor as well.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 17, 2018, 04:42:24 PM
But by that logic, couldn't a char with 100/25 switch to Hero, die the next day, and be buried as a Legend? That doesn't seem very Legendary.

That is why I think there is a number that must be accumulated while they are actually a Hero.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on October 17, 2018, 04:55:22 PM
But by that logic, couldn't a char with 100/25 switch to Hero, die the next day, and be buried as a Legend? That doesn't seem very Legendary.

That is why I think there is a number that must be accumulated while they are actually a Hero.

I have seen characters change class to hero, then die within no more than a few days, and be hailed as a legend. It's long enough ago that I don't recall the specifics, but I remember it being talked about at the time specifically in the context of the Legendary Hero fame.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Vita` on October 17, 2018, 07:27:43 PM
Indeed, Lefanis is more oriented in the right direction.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 17, 2018, 07:51:20 PM
That is kind of lame. A hero should have to work as a hero to become legendary!
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on October 17, 2018, 08:28:59 PM
That is kind of lame. A hero should have to work as a hero to become legendary!

But does the work need to be while they're a hero? Or can they become legendary for things they did before they put aside their humility and declared themselves to be one?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 18, 2018, 12:27:19 AM
Bah! No risk, no reward IMO!
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Stabbity on October 18, 2018, 01:40:56 AM
I've suspected what Anaris is saying, based on what I've seen of heroes in the past. Characters become legendary, and if they die as a hero, well they were already legendary, and indisputably a hero (because, dead) well then they're a legendary hero.

Legendary status I believe has to do with a couple factors. Prestige is definite. Titles, factor maybe some, but I've seen folks spend their careers as Knights and become legendary. Possibly something to do with the number of people they've met too. Hard to be a legend if no one knows your name.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on October 18, 2018, 02:22:33 AM
Titles, factor maybe some, but I've seen folks spend their careers as Knights and become legendary. Possibly something to do with the number of people they've met too. Hard to be a legend if no one knows your name.

Man, some of you really like to overcomplicate this fame point...
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 18, 2018, 02:28:34 AM
I am quite sure it isn't a title thing. Very confident it is an hon/pres thing. The only question is how much.

I have research to do.

EDIT: Ugh. Family pages just say if the character was killed as a hero. Makes no mention of whether they were legendary or not. I don't know why I thought it would, this mystery would have been solved long ago if that was the case...
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Vita` on October 18, 2018, 02:57:39 AM
Well, Anaris and I have discussed amongst ourselves, and we're going to jointly award Lefanis and Gildre with goodies for coming the closest to guessing the Legendary Hero famepoint. We don't think anyone will be likely to improve upon the specificity of the guesses; if anyone can get more accurate, we will reward that, but I think thats quite unlikely.

To clarify, both prestige and honour can contribute to being considered Legendary Hero. You don't have to gain that h/p while you are hero class. Lefanis's suggestion given, 25 prestige and 100 honour, does qualify as legendary, but it does not have to be those specific amounts of h/p to qualify.

Lefanis and Gildre have both received 2 months of Goodies.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on October 18, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
To clarify, both prestige and honour can contribute to being considered Legendary Hero. You don't have to gain that h/p while you are hero class. Lefanis's suggestion given, 25 prestige and 100 honour, does qualify as legendary, but it does not have to be those specific amounts of h/p to qualify.

To clarify slightly further, it's not a set amount of honour and prestige, but a moderately complex formula.

So research away! ;D
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 18, 2018, 03:54:52 AM
Thanks! You guys rock!

I have been scouring the Wiki, finding pages with Legendary Heros in the fame boxes, and recording their hon/pres. I have found a few interesting things:


Since Anaris and Vita have given us the nod, I am going to cease my search. I have to admit, I am pretty discouraged by the lack of solid evidence to go off of anyways. However, my findings definitely lined up pretty well with Lefanis. So far I have found 7 nobles who the player is completely convinced they got the Fame Points for Legendary. The lowest prestige I found was 26, and the lowest honour was 103.

I have to admit, I am pretty curious about the "moderately complex formula", but to find that out for sure I assume I would need to spend a few years learning how to code and then offer up my services as a developer and work my way up to being granted access to see those features, so I think I will settle for the 25/100 approximation!
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: MTYL on October 18, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
1. It's not one and the other. Likely it's one or the other. Most likely it utilizes "Reputation" fame (which is the combination of stats like prestige, honour etc.) or some kind of score that is calculated using arbitrary multiplier, e.g. prestige = 5, honour = 1. If total>legendary threshold you're a legendary hero, if not - sorry gregory.

2. It's not absolute, it's dynamic. It must be, since it utilizes either fame mechanics (from the "your fame" tab) or some mechanics that work in a similar fashion. So I believe the legendary threshold is either higher/lower depending on the most legendary person on the continent or it's higher/lower depending on the avarge legendary factor (fame/reputation/honour+prestige)

BOOM!

Sorry, I really didn't mean to blow minds.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Chenier on October 19, 2018, 03:57:23 PM
Thanks! You guys rock!

I have been scouring the Wiki, finding pages with Legendary Heros in the fame boxes, and recording their hon/pres. I have found a few interesting things:

  • There is a fair amount of people who do not understand how Fame Points work.
  • There are SO MANY family pages whose accounts have been deleted. Over and over I found a family with a Legendary fame panel, only to find their family no longer exists and I couldn't verify the hon/pres.
  • I stumbled onto a Wiki page called Careful Research. Either it was made by Mercer or Twinblade, but both of those families seem to be gone. Anyways, he had linked the family history from one of my characters from my very first account which got deleted. I never knew the ID code so I couldn't see it, so finding that was an awesome treat and a great blast from the past!! So if either of those guys have new accounts and see this, thanks a ton!!!

Since Anaris and Vita have given us the nod, I am going to cease my search. I have to admit, I am pretty discouraged by the lack of solid evidence to go off of anyways. However, my findings definitely lined up pretty well with Lefanis. So far I have found 7 nobles who the player is completely convinced they got the Fame Points for Legendary. The lowest prestige I found was 26, and the lowest honour was 103.

I have to admit, I am pretty curious about the "moderately complex formula", but to find that out for sure I assume I would need to spend a few years learning how to code and then offer up my services as a developer and work my way up to being granted access to see those features, so I think I will settle for the 25/100 approximation!

Legendary is when fame => 100, where fame = prestige + 0.25 x honor

Random numbers, just an idea of what it could possibly look like?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on October 20, 2018, 12:35:48 AM
You wrote that so confidently that I thought it was the actual formula haha!

I get what you are putting down though.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Lefanis on October 20, 2018, 09:14:11 AM
Lefanis and Gildre have both received 2 months of Goodies.

Nice, just seeing this  :D Will get to work guessing the others soon enough!
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Lefanis on November 05, 2018, 05:55:35 PM
Hmmm... This is a wildly random guess, but do you get a point when you get kicked out of lordship due to revolt? Those unknown fame points are nagging at me...
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on November 05, 2018, 07:38:01 PM
Is there a point to be gained by "buying/forging a claim" to obtain a lordless region from another realm?

Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on November 26, 2018, 07:28:20 AM
I have been trying to figure out the Prophet fame. Anyone who has it, do you remember what state your religion was in?

I read that getting a region to 50% followers was a factor, but that didn't work. Then I tried getting 50% of a regions max population, but no point then either. Currently have two temples and four nobles involved in the religion.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Lefanis on November 26, 2018, 05:46:23 PM
Guilds get a "significant event" message when they make it to 10 members. Perhaps 10 noble followers is the threshold for Prophet fame?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on November 26, 2018, 05:53:52 PM
Between the two of you, you're getting warm.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on November 26, 2018, 07:06:50 PM
Lefanis, let's quit our jobs and become Fame Detectives. We are rockin' it!

Also, once I have convinced another five people to join, I will update.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Wimpie on November 26, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Haha this is lovely. Keep at it!
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Lefanis on November 27, 2018, 04:46:31 PM
Lefanis, let's quit our jobs and become Fame Detectives. We are rockin' it!

Hehehe 8)

Perhaps a combination of the two factors then? "10th member has joined the order" and something else. I am tempted to say 10,000 followers? Nice round number, pretty attainable with some effort, although only readily available to a priest- I don't have access to a religion spread off the bat... Perhaps the second factor might be being a major faith in more than 5 regions?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Ketchum on November 28, 2018, 04:28:13 AM
Hehehe 8)

Perhaps a combination of the two factors then? "10th member has joined the order" and something else. I am tempted to say 10,000 followers? Nice round number, pretty attainable with some effort, although only readily available to a priest- I don't have access to a religion spread off the bat... Perhaps the second factor might be being a major faith in more than 5 regions?
Let try it.

Why not being major faith in at least 5 realms or above?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Stabbity on February 06, 2019, 03:08:32 AM
That last fame point nobody has earned bugs me. And I have a guess. Is it for wounding your mentor in battle?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Anaris on February 06, 2019, 02:10:02 PM
...No.

That would be really weird.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on February 07, 2019, 01:31:18 AM
I thought it was an interesting idea. The whole apprentice becomes the master trope, no?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Stabbity on February 07, 2019, 02:41:04 AM
...No.

That would be really weird.

Student becoming the master and all. Anyway, I will discover what it is and claim the point.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Vita` on February 07, 2019, 02:48:42 AM
Student becoming the master and all. Anyway, I will discover what it is and claim the point.
I highly doubt this.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Stabbity on February 07, 2019, 10:59:05 AM
I highly doubt this.

Care to share your thoughts why?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Lefanis on February 07, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
That last fame point nobody has earned bugs me. And I have a guess. Is it for wounding your mentor in battle?

The last fame point is obviously called the "BattleMaster" fame point. Last unit standing in a battle over 10k cs on each side?  ;D
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on April 24, 2019, 08:48:04 PM
In regards to the Prophet Fame, I can confirm that 10 nobles and 50% of a region is not what gets you the fame.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on July 30, 2019, 09:20:36 PM
A tournament will be considered successful when the holder correctly plans for the amount of nobles that will attend?  (+or- a few)

Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: PolarRaven on July 30, 2019, 09:25:52 PM
Sponsoring a successful army requires more than 10 people in the army?
Don't know how many more, but the only army I have ever founded and maintained has always been less than 15 nobles.
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on September 05, 2019, 04:58:09 AM
There is definitely a Fame Point for 1500 gold bounty. Is this already common knowledge?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Zakky on September 05, 2019, 05:16:28 AM
There is definitely a Fame Point for 1500 gold bounty. Is this already common knowledge?
Called Wanted on Lemon Box I think?
Title: Re: Lemon Fame 3
Post by: Gildre on September 05, 2019, 02:15:13 PM
Haha yeah I made the template.