BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Ocean Yong Kiran on March 12, 2019, 01:22:13 PM
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Okay, I know, I only play two weeks. But.
Maybe new player has better view of things than people with old habits?
Read.
When I pick up Lord of the Rings, when I pick up sword of shannara, when I play D & D, always first thing I do - I stare at the map.
I look at the map very long time. I don't even read book first, I only look at map, and wonder.
What is here? What is there? Where will we go?
I play Battlemaster, first thing I do is look at the maps. You have WONDERFUL maps! I look, I wonder - what is that place? Who is that country?
Then I play game.
Game is:
"Everyone come takeover this region"
"Everyone refit"
"..." (no one talks realm)
You have the most magical maps, and most bureaucrat game. It is boring.
Maybe if you are king or general it is fun. If not - it is like check morning email. Read, click, next. Boring.
Probably some people think yes, some people think no, everyone say "no time!".
But your maps are magic. I think this is too bad.
I think you need big "lean downsizing". New "Marie Kondo" ;D
Takeovers - "Does this make me joy?" No - no more takeovers!
WHAT! But always we do takeovers! Not possible!
Yes, is possible. Simply make new, small, fun way to takeoever. Forget is real, is not real. Think only - is fun?
Do for everything. Think only - is this fun? Not "but is necessary!" Only - is this fun?
I think game has too much, can be simpler.
@Anaris makes excellent question to me on other thread - "What DO you want?"
I join knights and sorcery game, I want - explore map. I want fight battles. I want become prince. I want magic sorcerers.
I do *not* want takeover region. I do not want sit in region 3 days waiting for be told where to move now.
So, this is my opinion.
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I'm already working on a way for most takeovers to be faster and easier. It's part of a larger package of changes you can see in my roadmap post (https://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,8425.0.html).
Fundamentally, BattleMaster is not a game of exploration. It is a game of war and conquest, and the politics and intrigue that go along with that.
It's also not a "knights and sorcery game." Indeed, for several months now we have been deliberately dialing down the amount of magic available in most of the game because most of the player base sees it as too much.
There are times when BattleMaster plays somewhat more like a fantasy novel, but those are the invasions on Beluaterra. Those take a lot of sustained developer/game-master time and effort, and even at their best, there are still many players who feel that they just get in the way of what is, to them, "real BattleMaster"—that is, the more common PvP experience.
But if you joined BattleMaster expecting to play a knight-errant on a rousing adventure....I'm sorry, but this isn't that game, and it never will be.
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Then I do not understand why any new players want to stay here, and I think is too bad.
Nice maps.
Thank you to many nice people I meet, but game not for me.
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Then I do not understand why any new players want to stay here, and I think is too bad.
Because there are other fun things to do besides being a knight-errant going on rousing adventures to save the world by himself.
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To be fair there have been some errant knights on rousing adventures and they did just fine.
@Kiran, battlemaster - contrary to what Anaris says - accommodates many different types of gameplay. Some of them more valid than others, most of them entirely possible. Sometimes what devs intend the game to be and what it happens to be are two different things, sometimes they're the same.
I for one played a loyal knight, a mighty general, a power behind the throne, a terrible spy schemer, a couple of adventurers, a rogue commoner asking to be beheaded with his outrageous behaviour, an explorer, a religious zealot. Sometimes I felt like game mechanics accommodate my needs nicely, sometimes I felt like I went against the current. Most of those roles were thoroughly enjoyable.
If your realm is just blind following of orders and you dislike it - change the realm. Or better still - change the realm. (Huh, a pun? A pun!)
@Anaris, I feel like you are too quick to tell people to leave. You might not be giving your adopted brainchild the credit it deserves. Especially considering that BM desperately needs new players.
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I am not trying to devalue BattleMaster's experience, nor drive people away. However, if what Ocean is seeking is not here, it is not right to try to deceive him into staying.
It is true that, if one were determined to play it as such, BattleMaster would permit one to play as a knight-errant seeking adventure.
However, if I am reading Ocean's post correctly, I do not believe BattleMaster would ever live up to his expectation, which is that such adventures would be provided to him by the game in a similar manner to a single-player RPG. To sustain such a play style, he would need to essentially write the adventures himself.
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Yeah that is pretty much correct @Anaris.
@Kiran battlemaster hinges on player interaction. Whether you succeed in finding what you seek depends largely on whether you find people with similar goals or not.
Dwilight and Beluaterra would be the best bet. Not a good bet in any capacity but the best of the poor ones.
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He wants a sword and sorcery game. Closest we have is the advy game which he probably can't even access.
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Definitely not the kind of game you were looking for.
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*sigh*
No, I am saying nothing even like that.
I think all of you must delete your accounts and start over as anonymous, for seeing how boring game is if not in power.
But thank you. I look for new game now.
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Well, if that's not what you're saying—if you think that the overall style of BattleMaster is the game you're looking for—then I invite you to clarify what you meant.
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*sigh*
No, I am saying nothing even like that.
I think all of you must delete your accounts and start over as anonymous, for seeing how boring game is if not in power.
But thank you. I look for new game now.
I have no power, I have not had since I rejoined the game after several years away. Nor was I particularity powerful even back when I did have some positions (Duke for all of a week and General for a couple of months)
My only characters since i rejoined have been nothing but knights. I have followed orders and marched around fought when the realm fought and when the inclination takes me participated in realm conversations. Do you really thing it is that exciting to be General, it is actually a position that can be hard to fill since so few players want to do it.
If you don't have power, the fun in working/scheming/networking in order to gain the power you want.
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I once had a pretty influential family before I made the current one.
I can tell you the game can be boring for knights when there isn't much going on.
Heck even when you are in power things can be rather boring.
I'd say about 70% of the realms in the game are like that. People mostly being reactionary and going with the flow instead of actually doing something to make the game more interesting. But can you really fault people for being risk averse?
It takes awhile for people to become influential while they can lose that influence really quickly by making one wrong move.
I think the slow pace of BM works both in favor and in disfavor. It is good for those who can't log in often to keep up with the game since it is slow enough. However, since it is slow, it also takes time for people to gain power. Once they gain power, they don't want to lose it so they become passive and risk averse. There isn't much incentive to do much once you reach the top. Only a handful of people who are willing to risk everything to make the game fun usually do something about it then they get antagonized as enemies.
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But can you really fault people for being risk averse?
Yes. It's a game. Not reality where you are *actually* putting your life at risk. Players used to take huge risks for the wider story and fun. I'd even say by being so risk-averse and creating a less fun environment over actually doing something as part of a wider story arc, they *are* losing the game.
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Yes. It's a game. Not reality where you are *actually* putting your life at risk. Players used to take huge risks for the wider story and fun. I'd even say by being so risk-averse and creating a less fun environment over actually doing something as part of a wider story arc, they *are* losing the game.
Ha I am risk adverse even in single player games and the ultimate turtle in RTS.
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Yes. It's a game. Not reality where you are *actually* putting your life at risk. Players used to take huge risks for the wider story and fun. I'd even say by being so risk-averse and creating a less fun environment over actually doing something as part of a wider story arc, they *are* losing the game.
I think you underestimate the number of people who think otherwise. Many people think they are losing the game by losing their titles. You need to provide people something they should worth risking themselves for. The game has tried to push people toward a certain direction forcefully in the past and it only cost the game players since this is after all a game. You can't force people to take risks. You need to make them want to take more risks.
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The deeper point is you can't win battlemaster in the way one can an rts. Attempting such harms the game. And is playing the wrong game.
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And the even deeper point is BM isn't meant to be won :P
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I think now I can see why not much is ever done in this game ::)
It is suggested to me by someone to try adventurer game before leaving, so I must wait one week and then see. It sounds like maybe what I think will be fun.
The main game has no interest for me
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I think there are also other things you should try if you feel there's something about the game that you like, but you're just not currently getting the experience you hoped.
You mentioned that you like magic at the start of this thread. Well, you could look at Angmar on Beluaterra. That realm is all about magic, and it has nobles and adventurers working closely together. It's been a bit disorganized since it lost its previous ruler, but is trying to get back on course. Of course, in this game, magic means collecting and casting scrolls, as well as prizing unique items. The game as a whole isn't a full on 'hurl a fireball at your enemy' sort of game, but Angmar puts more emphasis on magic than any other realm in the game.
On Dwilight, I'm the ruler of Westgard (which tends to be a very active realm in terms of player interactions - so conversations even for those not in positions of power), and I'd invite you to create a character there and I'll try to find aspects of the game for you to enjoy if you can clearly tell me what you're looking to get out of the game. If, after I've tried to create a role in the game to suit you, you're still not enjoying things, you (and the rest of us) will at least understand that BM just isn't the game for you.
On the other hand, I know that Avernus on Dwilight is a very active and organized military realm and actively seeks out battle. You would definitely get to fight battles there, but probably also have to run or support takeovers (which you seem to hate).
Looking more widely at the game, there are also different character classes that may suit you better. The infiltrator class gives a player much greater freedom to play the game in their own way. If you think that being an assassin and thief could be something that would interest you, that could be a class to try. Although it does take time to train up the skills to become an effective infiltrator.
Looking at the other classes, there's the priest. The priest game is very different to the normal game. It depends a lot on social interaction and communication and is very good for people who like to roleplay. However, it has nothing to do with fighting and battles, and so may not suit you for those reasons. However, there's scope for you to create a new religion almost anywhere in the game (perhaps apart from in the Sanguis Astroism realms on Dwilight).
Finally, remember that you have several different character slots for a reason. You could play one or two characters as warriors to get the war-fighting aspect of the game, then a third character as an infiltrator to get that part of the the game, and a forth character as a priest to try that part of the game (in addition to adventurers). This game has a lot of potential diversity across its playing experience if you choose to seek it out. It also allows you to play several different characters in several different places so that if on place is boring, there's probably something of interest happening in one of the other places where you have a character. The game design itself acknowledges that some areas will be dull at some times, and gives you a way to have another area were something of interest is going on.
Again, assuming there's something about the game that's kept you playing this far when you're not getting satisfaction, think about trying the things I've suggested. But, ultimately, not everyone will enjoy BM. Just as not everyone will enjoy every game.
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Ah!
"the magic" does not mean wizards.
The magic mean "the magical feeling when something is mystical", like when I first time read The Hobbit.
i do not care if game has real magic in it. I want not to feel like I am only checking my morning emails
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Uh... I'd not call that magic. I'd call that charm at most. You are looking to find something that is charming about this game not magical. I think people here misunderstood you due to confusing usage of the word magic. ;D
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Magic works in the context. It's not the best word to convey the meaning given the presence of actual magic in the game, but it works.
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I am so glad we clear up the good english.
I look at my first post. I see i only say "maps are magic". I never say word about wizards or hocus pocus.
I think these forums are place only where old players go to waste all the time they do not have for making game fun, instead for argue why everything already okay.
If I play, if I not play, I do not. But I waste no more time here
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I think these forums are place only where old players go to waste all the time they do not have for making game fun, instead for argue why everything already okay.
I don't think you're being very charitable to people's intent here. The forums are one of the community locations for discussing the game, removing yourself from them means your input isn't as available for the game's direction. Its considerably less effort to respond to a post to explain something than it is to complete coding and testing a feature. Sometimes people don't have their dev environments setup in every place from which they can access a forum. I dont think anyone has seriously proposed that everything is already okay and nothing needs to change. Your ideas *are* appreciated, but that doesn't mean every idea is instantly agreed with, approved, or implemented. In BattleMaster, progress takes time. If you'd like to help, we've talked about that before, but again, patience goes a *long* way in BattleMaster - help is in the form of volunteer time.
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The game is what it is.
We have all come to BattleMaster looking for something.
When we get here we can:
Work with what we find available and have fun within the game's existing limits.
Work with others to change the limits that we find, to increase our fun.
Decide that the game is not what we expected and look elsewhere to have fun.
The game is not what I had initially hoped for when I found it almost 10 years ago, but I decided to stick around and enjoy myself within the bounds that the game offered.
Over the years, I have made suggestions and commented both positively and negatively to other peoples suggestions about making the game better for me and everyone else.
We are all here for different reasons and if the game is going to work for all of us, we have to consider that not everyone will be happy with every aspect of the game.
Now, on to possibly offend a few people. :)
For my part, I really have no real interest in most of the RP's that many players post.
Anyone who knows my family will know that I have hardly ever participated in any "roleplay" events.
That is not why I am here, unlike so many others that appear to be here to write story books.
I do play the role of my characters, but I am no story writer.
I don't complain about the players that do tend to write lots of RP's, that may be why they are here and that is how they have fun.
They don't complain (at least not to me) about me not writing/participating in many RP's.
We are all here to have fun and should be allowed to have fun in our own way, within the bounds set out by the game.
Unlike many games, BM gives us this forum and other tools to allow us, as players, to help change/improve the game we play.
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Ah!
"the magic" does not mean wizards.
I look at my first post. I see i only say "maps are magic". I never say word about wizards or hocus pocus.
I join knights and sorcery game, I want - explore map. I want fight battles. I want become prince. I want magic sorcerers.
That's why people thought you were talking about 'magic' in the game.
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Ah, I see.
Yes, this is my mistake then. But no, I am not concerned so strongly with magic. I am thinking of make game *dynamic* and moving and fun.
Work together is nice, but only work together to do the one boring thing the top person wants is not so much. Must there be no adventure at all? You create wonderful children's fort and then say no one can play in it.
But perhaps yes - I will try adventurer game soon, see how it is
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Adventurer is probably what you are looking for. But remember, adventurers are commoners. If you cross a nobleman, they will crush you and you can't do much to retaliate.
This game is 20 years old and it is anything but dynamic. It isn't the dev's fault however. The game was never designed with a big plan. People just added more stuff on top. If I have to describe BM, I'd describe it as a castle made out of sandbags. Just a lot of features piled on and on over the years.