Messages

61

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 18, 2011, 09:52:39 PM »

Also, to be fair, if that's true, it just shows the extent that the CE was involved in international politics. Making demands for another realm, which that other realm didn't even know about!

As a character, Saeculo likes the CE, and is actually quite supportive, he was born there and has his family estate is in Etoge. He's a first generation colonist and so his loyalty is always going to be split somewhat. (As time goes on, less so).

As a player, despite the fact it was my first ever realm, I can't say that they aren't getting what they deserve at least in part. They've pushed Coria around before now, and I know for a fact that Saeculo has had arguments with them before. I believe Enri and Saeculo certainly discussed the apparant domination over Coria and it's foreign affairs.

I would never want to see them destroyed, just learn some humility. They certainly do deserve to be a world power however, their successful defence against such odds is testimony of that.

62

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 18, 2011, 09:41:23 PM »

Eston has to give Coria the Barad Lacirith duchy

This was never even considered by Coria. Not in its Senate nor its Military Council. The reason in part that Hammarsett was created was because we didn't really have enough nobles to control the additional Duchy of Shannandoah, so we definitely didn't demand the Duchy of Barad lacirith, we just couldn't have controlled it physically with the number of nobles we had. It would have been a pointless demand because we had the opportunity to gain the Duchy of Shannadoah a month or so before which we declined.

But then Coria went along with it?

No, we didn't. I can honestly say that neither my character or myself as a player had any knowledge of these demands by any Corian or member of the CE. Saeculo has always been near the top of Corian politics, so I can only assume that no other Corian had any knowledge of this. Perhaps the ruler at the time may have, but no steps were taken to make this a reality.

63

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 18, 2011, 08:15:49 PM »

Coria was the aggressor in this war, and made a rather ludicrous and unprovoked demand.

I don't even know where to start with that comment. Do you even know why the war was started? There were two main reasons, but both were due to the actions of the Estonian government.

Firstly, and the main reason Saeculo proposed war, was because of their handling of the Herunumen incident. It's funny, because as a player, I suspect that it was a member of an allied realm which originally put the bounty on Saeculo's head for his support of Eston! How ironic is that? In the League of the Eagle, Saeculo had been quite outspoken in his support of Eston and then suddenly found himself with his first and only bounty, putting two and two together, I'd suspect it was an ally who placed the Gold on the bounty board.

Regardless of this, and despite the protection Coria had offered Eston (preventing access of Carelia to through our lands) Eston allowed Herunumen to escape, the very man who had stabbed a loyal friend of Eston's. Now I understand that many in Eston won't know that Saeculo was pro-Eston, but nevertheless, Saeculo felt betrayed by those he once considered friends. If you remember, Coria did not participate in the CE/BoM war  and the reason for this was because Eston was involved and we didn't want to attack their troops.

The second major incident was when Talerium assassins assaulted an Estonian. Because of this, we were threatened and the trade which once existed was halted. Regulus has used the same argument against Coria, but I really don't understand how people can justify attempting to punish Coria because of the actions of an ally. Those nobles did not traverse Corian lands to reach Eston, nor did they have our support, we didn't even know until after the fact. Yet on both occasions with Eston and Hammarsett, this has been used as an excuse to punish Coria. Both instances, it's ended in War. Lesson? Be just in your punishments and don't punish those un-involved.

Friendship between Coria and Eston had been growing before this war, since the foundation of Coria in fact, and but for those two occasions we wouldn't be at War.

Indeed, I believe the player of Roland can confirm that Saeculo was willing to travel to Eston to speak with their King over the matter. Coria actually tried to avoid war at first, but then King Jean demanded that Saeculo leave Eston for "his protection could no longer be guaranteed".

But as you seem to know, can you please tell me what Coria's demands were? Originally, it was that their Judge, Athena be punished and removed from her position. Funnily enough, your own rulers demanded the exact same thing in regards to Roland and Jean before they would help out Eston.

Then during the war, the reparations we requested was for a food producing region in compensation so that we would not have to depend on Eston for food in the future and so that they could not attempt to use this as leverage again. Thus our peace demands were not harsh against Eston when we had the upper-hand, and Eston's were not harsh against Coria when they had the upper hand, so I fail to see your point?

Now we are at peace again, Kerwin and Saeculo seem to get along, and I wouldn't be surprised if both realms start strengthening their friendship once again whilst respecting their current alliances and commitments.

Additionally, it's the choice of your own rulers to go through the Corian mountains. Other than flying (this was not an available option in the Medieval period) or going through Talerium, how else do you wish to gain access to the CE? 

64

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 18, 2011, 05:46:15 PM »

I think Darka should have pushed to build temples of Darkanism in Coria. How come this isn't standard procedure?

I don't understand why people think Coria was surrendering. We weren't. We offered peace, we were not rolling over and giving up. Sure we were on the back foot, but at no point were we left completely defenceless. I'm not saying that peace wasn't wanted or needed as it was, and this is why there are some Corians who now feel indebted to Eston, as many of the leaders of their allies now know.

But this peace was not achieved in the same way most people seem to think it was. This was not the unconditional surrender which most people think it was. We were always given a set of demands, and when we agreed to meet the main principles of these, peace was offered. But now people are coming out and saying that Eston has been tricked? No.. the main goal for the Northern realms was to attack CE, they've told us this IC and OOC. But now it's claimed after the fact they could have gained loads of Coria's lands? This was never demanded (apart from Nazia as it bordered the CE).

As it is, apart from Eston, the rulers of the Northern Federation are being quite ridiculous in their demands. You given an inch, they take a foot as they say.

Here's an analogy: The Northern Federation demand 100 pieces of copper, 50 pieces of copper is offered by Coria, then the majority accept, only for one realm to state that they now want Gold, and then the rest claim the same.

We've gone from peace talks, to 'cease fire' talks. Which ironically is what we had at the start, so the whole thing is pointless. But not only are we having ceasefire talks, they expect for the same agreements to be honoured as the ones we made when we were discussing peace!

My character does not understand why those characters think that a realm offering neutrality would be in the same position to ask for quite substantial demands against another realms allies.

If a friend (peace) asks you to do a favour which may risk getting you in trouble with your wife/husband (allies), this is completely different to some guy you've never really spoke to (neutral) who asks you to do the same favour.

You all want a shakeup in politics, Kerwin had succeeded in the first steps to this, but all the other Northern leaders have done is to suggest that Coria has made the correct choice in allies. If you ask me as a player who has the stronger alliance. Given the reactions of Darka BoM and Hammarsett towards Eston, I'd certainly say the alliance Coria is currently in. It doesn't seem like CE, Tara and Talerium are so quick to jump on another allies back about something they don't like.

For example, Tara didn't really want to become so offensively involved in this war, this was frustrating to Talerium Coria and CE, but none of us started to behave the same way with them as the North did with Eston.

65

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 15, 2011, 01:34:18 AM »

Meh, we're not waiting for Hammarsett. It's those damn mountains that are the problem.

Being able to access Galadia helps solve the mountain issue. You're not able to use Galadia until Coria signs peace with Hammarsett, so I'd say your leaders would probably agree with me that you're waiting for Hammarsett. They've stated as much in letters

66

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 14, 2011, 10:01:40 PM »

As for the lack of battles in the north, you can blame that on the whole peace talks with Coria mess.

That just depends on which side you talk to I'm not so sure Saeculo would see it as a mess

Besides, the Northern realms have far greater access to CE now, the only thing stopping them is Hammarsett.

67

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 13, 2011, 03:54:19 AM »

Well, your mistake for leaving your city. If you had been there, we wouldn't have attacked. But you weren't, so we took advantage of that.

As for luring you out, we had no idea that Eston had offered a treaty. We discussed the matter for a couple days, with Estons general being in on the planning. He never mentioned it. Maybe he didn't know.

We've acknowledged that it was our fault, and originally I had thought it had been intentional, but this is apparently not the case. It would have been a very good strategy if it had been planned, and very successful. Yeah it may have been untrustworthy and deceitful, but as a player that's what I like to see, some good strategy even if it's from our enemies. As a character, yeah it's annoying, but I'd expect that from Darka. Saeculo doesn't particularly like them as they are merceneries, but as a player I'd hate to see them removed from the continent, as their mercenary lifestyle brings a very unique element to the game in a way no other realm does.

We won this chance for peace treaty with Coria for Eston.If you fail to see this and understand that this is giving Darka the right to demand a part in this treaty ,then what can i say.

If we are being completely honest Darka couldn't have inflicted nearly as much damage without the support of Eston, to try and claim that you were the ones responsible is a bit far fetched. Eston has their Capital city a days march away from our border region. They have a similar sized army to you, can refit a lot quicker and I wouldn't say I've seen a huge difference in the ability of each of the Generals.

So I can't agree with the claims that you basically won the war for them. As I remember  Eston's allies didn't even bother to help them until their own demands were met first (this is the reason for their new government).  Coria has actually been pretty loyal to it's current allies in a lot of ways, even when faced with destruction. I'm trying hard for us to get a good name, one that everyone knows they can trust. It's been difficult at some points, but that's what I'm attempting to achieve. Be they enemy or allies, trust will be important for Coria.

If this is the view of Darkans in game, then quite frankly, they are no better than the Cagilans. Indeed, they've displayed many of the negative attributes the CE has displayed before now. Bossing Eston around in Eston's own foreign politics, thinking that they defeated Coria and not Eston.

Hmm, popular topic.  Is this mainly an OOC or IC discussion?  Or a murky middle ground?

 I'd agree that it was murky middle ground, but I don't think any of it can, or should be used IC. For example, the fact that Carelia might attack Tara hasn't even been considered/talked about IC (that I know of anyway) as our characters wouldn't know about it.

68

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 12, 2011, 02:44:49 PM »

Even without Eston,while Merlin was away from his city and that is HIS mistake ,Darka could easily come in Barad Falas for as long as their units could manage to stay out.

I understand that not everyone has access to the behind the scenes information, and so I'll give you some background info on the state of the allies at the time.

Yep you're correct, it was our own fault for having Merlin leave Barad Falas. But we were offered peace and requested to meet Kerwin in Anost. You tricked us, bravo, well done, it wouldn't have happened again so easily.

Yeah you had 20,000CS in Barad Falas, yet at the time that Kerwin signed peace, we had ~15k Taran, ~8k Corian and ~8k Talerium marching towards the city, around a day or two away. Both allies had just arrived in Coria having undergone a refit. From memory, I don't recall there being over 31K in the city at the time. So the damage you caused having been in our Capital would have been limited to what it had been even if Kerwin had not signed the peace.

The fact is, you've achieved a lot more out of peace negotiations now that Eston has signed the peace then you would have after weeks of fighting. So really, both the allies of Eston and Coria have Eston to be thankful for.

This War has always been exclaimed to be solely against the CE and those that get in the way of your actions against the CE. Peace has been offered on numerous occasions to Coria if we allow access to the CE, so the Darkans have actually achieved what they've always wanted.

The most interesting point I'm going to make is that the reasons justifying the War against the CE in the South is because of it's interference in their foreign politics. Yet this is exactly what Darka is doing with Eston. A few days after the peace, Kostaja was demanding that Kerwin break the peace and attack Coria again. Hardly the actions of respectful allies.

69

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 11, 2011, 06:13:31 PM »

Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! I have been praying for this for weeks. Months?

And yet ironically, your own leaders have been trying to prevent this

70

Atamara / Re: The Current War

« on: March 07, 2011, 11:46:54 PM »

I must admit, I believe a greater amount of smaller realms would be beneficial to Atamara. More realms equal more government positions for people to have a go at, it also enables a more diverse politics rather than people getting entrenched in large solid alliances.

Personally, I'd support colonies, and in fact, Coria did support the foundation of Hammarsett. Ironically I very much doubt the two will ever have great relations with one another, despite the fact I'd prefer to see more colonies. Multiple fronts in a war can be devastating and if smaller realms stuck together more, and they surrounded a much larger realm trying to exert dominance over them,  they could become giant killers.

And anyway, who is to say that the alliance between Coria and Eston won't spice things up in the future? People are complaining about the same sides always duking it out and things never being shaken up. How does Coria, a Cagilan colony, taking a step closer in friendship to the Northern realms not add the possibility for change in the future?

I think politics around the Great Lake are going to be pretty interesting after this War is over. After all, with the current alliances, there are going to be a lot of landlocked allies, friends one day, enemies the next as they say