Messages

1

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 10, 2013, 08:01:24 AM »

I've made lots of points in this thread, because there are lots of tangents about random things.

On the subject of the top twenty players, not everyone bothers to keep their family gold at the exact maximum limit. I didn't bother going into excruciating detail on this subject because I figured it was easy for people to conceptualize themselves. But since there is significant confusion, I will elaborate.

The top 14 players are one hundred gold away from the limit. If they were OCD they could max out easily. The rest are just shy as well. That is all that mattered, because that particular point was not that everyone had 20,000 gold, but that people were all hovering around that area, which was problematic. It's a moot point now, because the devs don't care.

2

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 10, 2013, 06:54:39 AM »

Because Kwanstein has been stating false information. The top 20 for wealth are not all maxed out.

I wasn't about to quibble over peanuts.

3

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 09, 2013, 12:43:51 AM »

The only players relevant are those who have reached the limit. They are the ones who are claimed to potentially threaten the gold supply with an apocalyptic gold harvesting race. The idea is that, if the gold limit were done away with, they would potentially invest such huge amounts of gold into their families that the game would be negatively effected, presumably because there wouldn't be enough gold left over to wage wars.

Players with less than the limit are free under current circumstances to harvest gold. So their alleged burden right now is the same whether of whether or not the limitation is eased. They do not matter.

4

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 08, 2013, 12:03:12 PM »

Given that you've provided no reason for this other than to supposedly make a superficial statistic feature looked at by a small percentage of player and meaningful to even fewer players more useful by draining hundreds of thousands of gold from an economy that can't sustain it (and it can't - your experiences in your realms are not indicative of every realm on every continent), I don't think it's us fabricating excuses or senseless positions.

I don't understand most of your post, except for the bit about the game being unable to sustain a smaller gold circulation.

That is false. Years ago the circulation was smaller, and it was spread over a larger amount of players. Due to repeated tax system changes, as well as the outflow of players, the current gold circulation is comparatively bloated. This is true for all realms in the game. No realm today has as many characters as was typical in the past. No realm today has the tax system of the past. Realms today are all richer than they would be in the past. The particulars may vary, but all realms today are comparatively rich.

So there is no risk of realms being sucked dry by these top twenty players and being unable to fight wars. That is an absurd notion which doesn't hold up to any amount of scrutiny.

5

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 08, 2013, 10:51:23 AM »

There are a set number of ways to spend family wealth, probably all detailed on the wiki. Knowing of them isn't a matter of creativity.

And what would you have people do, set huge bounties and fund revolts? Both of those options are ineffectual. Invest gold or ask for family support? Those do not spend wealth, they merely recirculate it. Buy regions or pay ransoms? Far too situational. There just are not many worthwhile things to spend money on. At least hoarding money gives you the satisfaction of hoarding it. Blasting it all on negligible effects is fleeting and insignificant.

If I were to really want to spend huge amounts of gold, I would simply build and then demolish recruitment centres over and over again. That would provide a chance at some notable gain, in the form of a rare, high quality recruitment centre. That is what I have been doing to try and spend all of my gold. But it has nothing to do with family gold, and it only cuts into excess gold, which is gold that is not very valuable. It is a 'meh' response, that is all.

Ten years ago I was a noob always trying to scrounge up enough gold to recruit a ten man unit, which would often be eliminated mere days after I bought it (battles were very frequent back then). That kind of challenge built in a sense of urgency and intimacy between myself and the wars I was fighting. It's often said that back then common nobles were merely pawns. From a grand strategic view, that is true, but from a more limited perspective, it is false. The personal barrier of trying to obtain gold back then made me far more engaged with the game. Nowadays I really do feel like just an automaton. There's no struggle in getting gold to recruit a unit. My only struggle is getting gold to build recruitment centres which I don't care about. Recruiting 800CS units is easy. It's no struggle at all!

That is getting a bit off track. There is a gold problem, and the Family Wealth thing is a direct result of it, but at this I doubt the former will be solved, so the only hope is to solve the latter, as the latter is very easy to solve. Either by deleting the cause of one of it's negative effects (the silly looking Top Families page), or by raising the cap, which is what this thread is about. Either option is easy to perform, so that is why I bring them up, rather than discuss the more difficult solutions to the matter of excess gold itself.

6

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 08, 2013, 07:44:27 AM »

Because those of us with realms at war (continent-wide war, no less) don't want to see tens of thousands more gold taken out of their realm that could be used to fight with instead?

Not every island is Atamara. Not every realm is Darka. It's very nice that your realms produce so much gold you don't know what to do with it, but some of us actually need the gold our realms produce so we can fight.

Only about twenty characters have reached the limit. That's enough to fill up the entire Top Families page, but it's still only twenty players across the entire game. Even if they all sent all of their gold back to their families, that would not count for much of a drain. This idea that you, Tom, and perhaps others are suggesting, that there's a risk of a major 'arms race,' with gold, is baseless. It's merely an excuse fabricated to exempt a senseless position from scrutiny.

7

BM General Discussion / Re: Religion

« on: October 08, 2013, 12:00:13 AM »

I would attribute SA's success to two things.

1. It had good ideas behind it.
Star worship is a fresh but natural concept for a modern audience. The nomenclature is cool. The very name Sanguis Astroism is pleasing and unique. These things attract attention and respect.

2. It came early on in the formation of a map.
While the religions on established islands were merely background flavour, due to their late comings,  SA's early appearance allowed it to become an intrinsic part of Dwilight. The general player base accepts it as established tradition, attaching to it reverence reserved for the old school.

8

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 09:02:28 PM »

There is no point to the restriction, but try explaining that to people who do not care about family wealth at best and at worst regard people with high family wealth as power gamers who are screwing their realms and reaching the limit out of malice.

9

Feature Requests / Delete Top Families Page

« on: October 04, 2013, 01:04:31 PM »

Title: Delete Top Families Page

Summary: The wealth section of the Top Families page ought to be deleted.

Details: All of the top families have the same amount of wealth, so the wealth section is useless. In addition to being useless, the wealth section is generally held in contempt by the fanbase and the devs. So rather than fixing it, it should just be deleted outright. As it is it just looks silly.

Benefits: This would fix the Top Families page.

Possible exploits: None.

10

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 12:50:35 PM »

Also if you all hate the Top Families page so much you should just delete it.

11

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 12:48:58 PM »

Counterproposal: Reduce family wealth by 10% every month. That way, only those who can afford it will STAY in the top 20. If that isn't enough, make it 20%, 30%, 90%. We can easily base it on how much you have (0% for those < 5k, starting at 5k it increases until it hits whatever the max % is at 20k).

That would take longer to code and no one would bother with family wealth and everyone would have 10,000 gold on all of their characters because there'd be no sane place else to put it.

So at the end, you want the gold limit to be raised for your own sake. Great.

No I wrote a bunch of other stuff before that last post. That last post was a reply to specific questions. Please read the thread before responding.

12

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 10:10:30 AM »

Any realm that's been around a bit has enough gold to equip it's nobles with huge units. That's why you see everyone running around with 800CS units at minimum, with standing orders urging anyone with less to contact the council for gold. There is no risk of immense gold drain and even if there were it would be beneficial because there's too much gold. This has been discussed a ton already and is common knowledge on the forum.

What realms are you in where you have so much excess gold that it's more useful to send it to your family (which you said was useless) rather than spending it on your character, your unit or your realm?

I have a character with 1,500 gold who's actively fighting a war but makes more money than she spends on her unit. She even suicides her unit every so often for the honour gain, so that she can recruit an even bigger unit next time, but it's not enough. She offered someone gold once and was refused. She's handed out large sums for no reason. Doesn't make a dent. Occasions for philanthropy aren't frequent enough for them to matter very much, because everyone else is rich as well.

I have another character with 2,500 gold. His realm is at peace and everyone in it has huge units anyway, so there is nothing for him to spend it on.

I have a third character who had 1,500 gold until he sent 1k of it home and raised me to the wealth cap. Now I'm at the wealth cap, and he still has enough gold to purchase huge massive gargantuan units for eternity because his income is so high.

*I should note that none of my characters have particularly cushy positions. I've never been a duke or operated a region with more than 300 gold. My experience is nowhere near what truly rich characters must go through. I can only imagine how much gold dukes have on them. (probably 50,000)

13

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 08:57:31 AM »

Can you explain why this is a problem in the first problem? It doesn't impact the game in anyway in my eyes.

There is a feature in the game called Top Families. It is meant to rank families based on wealth. If there is no distinction in wealth then it is broken.

What benefits? What benefits will this provide to compensate for another 200,000 gold being drained out of realms that could use it to wage war?

It fixes the Top Family feature and allows people to spend their excess gold (currently there is not enough stuff to spend gold on).

Not really, If we increase it say 10,000 gold, then within a month the same 20 families will probably have maxed it out again.

Then increase it again after a month. The workload of changing 20,000 to 30,000 to 40,000 is negligible, so it would be no problem if the maximum limit were reached again in the future. You could even plan for that eventuality by increasing the wealth cap even further to begin with. It is not a problem that ingenuity cannot solve.

14

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 07:48:49 AM »

Problem the first: you have this link called 'Top Families' which lists the top families sorted by wealth. This is rendered pointless if all of the families have the same amount of wealth.

Problem the second: you have gold, which is currently pointless because there is nothing to spend it on.

The procedure: increase wealth cap. It takes negligible effort to do this, and it provides benefits.

15

Feature Requests / Re: Increase Family Wealth Limit

« on: October 04, 2013, 07:17:08 AM »

Adding additional features is a good solution.

But so is raising the wealth cap.

It is possible for there to be two solutions.