Messages

241

Colonies / Re: What's Minas Thalion like?

« on: April 10, 2012, 10:21:06 PM »

Oh they dont have to dance... they can just hum along and shift weight from one foot to the other...

They have to be careful not to let their feet slip though or the leash could easily become a noose

242

Colonies / Re: What's Minas Thalion like?

« on: April 09, 2012, 11:30:02 PM »

If Lukon makes that move it'll show the deception that is their war with Giblot. A war whose sole purpose is to keep Assassins and OT dancing on their leash

243

Magistrates Case Archive / Re: Clan in Fontan and Aurvandil

« on: April 09, 2012, 10:53:22 PM »

I've been a Fontan player since 2007, with a break from the game in 2010 for personal reasons, and during that time I've seen it run both highly efficiently and lackadaisically via IC means as the fortunes of war ebbed and flowed. Much of the political tension which made the realm so much fun flowed from the desire of our military to plan in a private realm message group whilst the guardians of the democratic tradition wanted oversight - much like the tension in ancient Rome between Senate and Emperor. At times we achieved incredible efficiency even with 100+ players because people wanted to play regularly and engage IC.

I therefore appreciate the argument the Aurvandil players are extending for why that realm is doing well, and why they run it the way they do. And I don't doubt that they're sincere in their defence. However I suspect they're missing the bleeding obvious.

The Auvrandil contingent who've joined Fontan in recent months don't seem to communicate with the wider community, have no apparent IC commonality beyond Aurvandil, don't involve themselves in the public institutions which traditionally orchestrate Fontanese society (The Assembly and Ministry of Defence) and lack even the very basic historical knowledge a random peasant would possess. The latter could be remedied with either a half-hour reading the wiki or a few days talking to existing characters.

No one should ever be punished for not doing basic homework, but it's clearly rude in a friendly game to move in en masse and completely ignore everything that's gone before. To my mind it's indicative of a mindset which - regardless of vehement protests to the contrary in forum threads - not only excludes players who aren't part of a self-identified group but also values success by the metrics of financial gain and military success more than it does building a fun shared playing environment.

My particular bugbear though is that the current general is run by a player who still insists on issuing both realm wide and individual orders without in any way seeking to include marshals in that process, despite this having been addressed both IC and OOC. Such behaviour runs directly counter to the advice given in the manual on how to play a Government Position and this raises the spectre of power being abused to deliberately favour one group of players in Fontan at the expense of others.

These orders are issued on a turn-by-turn basis with very little explanation of a broader strategy and only characters of this particular group seem privy to any of the "special" orders relating to looting, which further adds to the impression of cliquishness.

I've played positions of authority and there are times when an order outside the usual feudal chains of command makes sense for IC reasons. The natural break on doing this regularly is the pushback IC from those holding the feudal rights which have been compromised. It's certainly not something that should be the norm.

244

East Island / Re: returning after deleting accounts

« on: April 08, 2012, 03:25:45 AM »

I think you missed the point.  It's not an OOC grievance -- it's you using an unreasonable OOC basis to appoint someone.  Basically "there is no better candidate" because you know the player.

Actually I don't know the player, but my character does know the family of his character and in a medieval world where pedigree was everything it would be quite natural to expect even a young knight of impeccable lineage to demonstrate known virtues, even if our cynical modern minds see the flaws in that argument. Were she to appoint a 17 year old of his lineage as vice-marshal that would be entirely consistent so long as the virtues she seeks are the virtues that lineage possesses.

However in this case she has met him in the field and believes that he is the very same knight who until recently served as a vice-marshal and a member of her military council when she was minister of defence. The fact he is now in somewhat more robust health than before is certainly an intriguing puzzle, but it is far from unprecedented.

245

East Island / Re: returning after deleting accounts

« on: April 07, 2012, 11:06:24 PM »

I resurrected my family when I returned to the game because I hadn't finished with their tale. I've never felt bad about resurrecting the three sisters Dubhaine and their prophet brother, nor has it bothered me that events have seemed to naturally cluster about them: it's just who they are. To the best of my knowledge this return hasn't detracted from anyone else's fun.

Indeed the Colonies might be that much duller if the rightful Duke of Alowca hadn't returned from exile to become ruler of Minas Thalion

The case currently under discussion in Fontan has mostly caused waves because the character who's returned was swiftly appointed vice-marshal of an army by one of my characters who knew him well. If that sucks for people who've joined the realm in the period since the other player deleted his account then I'm sorry, but OOC grievance has no place IC and IC there is no better candidate for the job as has been made very clear to the critics. It's also the only way I can think of IC to counteract a general who insists on bypassing the realm's Marshals, a problem which has lead to at least two acrimonious threads here on the forum regarding Clans and who is or isn't a member of one.

246

Colonies / Re: What's Minas Thalion like?

« on: April 07, 2012, 04:34:08 PM »

It does indeed.

247

Helpline / Re: When a religion dies...

« on: April 05, 2012, 08:12:23 PM »

And does the religion instantly cease to exist when the last temple goes down, or do they get some time to build a new one?

And what happens to Priests of the religion? Are they kicked back to Warrior?

Things may have changed since I last ran a religion (2009) but back then the religion disappeared when the last temple was completely destroyed. As long as you had a ruined temple it would still be active.

Also priests remained priests but were unable to preach or emigrate.

248

East Island / Re: Fontan's Surprising Strength

« on: April 05, 2012, 07:02:40 PM »

Fontan is attempting to retake their realm from those that have taken it over. But it is hard.  The Chancellor of Fontan is their leader and they have the position of General as well. we just took back the position of judge in our latest election.

I don't think it's fair to characterise the election that way. Lord Justin has been in Fontan for years, as has Chancellor Aulus. It's true Minister Lyzekiel is rubbing a number of established characters up the wrong way, and I suspect there'll be trouble from that, but he's only just won his second term as a wartime General and his majority was nothing out of the ordinary.

They seem to be running Fontan like a dictatorship under the guise of a democracy. they do not use the assembly and no one votes for anything now.  the chancellor made it so regions are  not voted upon but appointed by him. 

This is nothing compared to Tal's reign. He wanted to declare himself king

I'm no fan of cliquish players, and my old character Moira spent much of her career arguing with the then government of Fontan IC over pretty much these same issues. Sometimes she was successful, sometimes less so.

It has gotten to the point that I am seriously considering leaving Fontan, Though I am not sure where to go. They are destroying the fun and democratic atmosphere of the realm.

I hope you decide not to leave as Fontan can only remain a democracy whilst there are players who want that to happen.

249

East Island / Re: Fontan's Surprising Strength

« on: April 05, 2012, 06:49:08 PM »

Ok, so before the Sirion interception, who do you think would have won the war? Westmoor was in control of both Commonyr and Oberndorf. Until Sirion stepped in and wanted peace for a future Nivemus to be created... So I'm sure King Jor had a reason on why to not except Fontan's rediculous "peace offers", when so clearly Fontan would be down to Krimml by now.

War is not just about armies and battles, it's about the diplomatic space within which those battles occur.

Sirion was obliged by treaty to defend Fontan's territorial integrity. Westmoor knew this as they had seen the full terms of the surrender and their efforts to keep Krimml put them on a collision course. They also knew that Sirion's key demand for peace was the right to refound a Rancaguan realm in Ashforth, so raiding that city during the conquest of Oberndorf and Commonyr further aggravated their position.

The government of Fontan used this to outmanoeuvre that of Westmoor, buying time to build up military strength, and once we'd cleared Westmoor's forces from the north we won all but one battle we engaged in on their home territory - despite still having a much smaller army at that time.

Not a single Sirion soldier was actually required to raise arms in defence of Fontanese soil so we will never know if Fontan's position was well-founded or not, but Westmoor blinked and that cost them a victory which realms have sought in the past. Since then Westmoor's government has wasted time that the nobles of Fontan have used productively to improve infrastructure, train troops, build gold reserves and generally prepare for war.

250

East Island / Re: Fontan's Surprising Strength

« on: April 05, 2012, 06:33:10 PM »

Regarding the view of the dev team - we are fairly certain there is no actual cheating going on.

However, we have noticed certain groups of players repeatedly showing the same approach to whatever realm they happen to be in at that time, and that has us worried because they are powergaming. Not speaking specifically about Fontan, we don't like it when an entire realm works like clockwork with almost no internal messages, no conflict, no nothing. Playing a piece in a machine is not what BattleMaster is about and more importantly, organizing the whole thing OOC whether amongst friends on the school yard or on IRC is borderline abusive because it excludes the other players who aren't members of your gang, clan or whatever you want to call it.

This is why we keep our eyes on certain realms.

I had to explain this to a couple of well-intentioned players in Minas Thalion who wanted to use IRC for planning as a way of team-building. It just isn't necessary for a realm to work that way and I think players who believe otherwise are missing much of the fun to be had from interacting via the lens of their characters.

251

Colonies / Re: What's Minas Thalion like?

« on: April 05, 2012, 06:20:52 PM »

feyeleanor, no disrespect to Cathal and his peace offer. Unfortunately many old guys in Orit did see the loss of Alowca duchy regions as a sort of embarrassment to them. After all, they all presided over the demise of Alowca realm in the past. If Alowca realm come to life, surely they cant sleep well 

I was worried at one point that Oritolon would accept - especially once I put permanent title to Alowca on the table. Thankfully "thrice-cursed" Spearhead and the other old-timers would never make peace with an Alowcan, as Cleatus made very clear once war was declared. Ash really does have some treacherous realm mates

And whilst Cathal would willingly embrace an alliance with Oritolon - his earliest prophecies were a call to rescue Oritolon's people from Valast's dominion - this was but a test for the all-encompassing war he's long anticipated.

252

BM General Discussion / Re: One Realm to Rulle them All

« on: April 05, 2012, 05:10:50 PM »

it makes me sad when no one remembers that it was Lukon that defeated the armies of Alebad...and smashed the armies of Alwoca so that Oritolon could take the cities.

As for taking over an entire island... Valast thought (in character of course) he HAD taken over the colonies.  Sure there were a couple of realms that he considered rebellious but he had them under control (crazy old freak).

I reckon Lukon could actually pull off a full military conquest of the Colonies, but only if the leadership actively recruited the knights of the realms they conquer. Valast's approach of hegemony worked precisely because it left space for the disaffected whereas Ares hasn't that kind of vision, and Valakyrie seems determined to win bimbo sword-wielder of the year 1012

253

East Island / Re: Fontan's Surprising Strength

« on: April 05, 2012, 04:55:10 PM »

I think we are all overexaggerating, let's see how the war turns out, if Westmoor wins where will the talk of Saxons go? Also, Sonya, I'm pretty sure you can't get 100 gold from looting rural regions....

Pick the right day and the right region... during the last war with Westmoor I looted 800 gold in two weeks from her southern provinces. That not only paid for my substantial company of archers, it also put some much needed gold in the pockets of my knights

254

East Island / Re: Fontan's Surprising Strength

« on: April 05, 2012, 04:48:51 PM »

Let me explain something from the Westmoor side.

Former King Flaylen refused to return Krimml to Fotan, causing the issue.

After Flaylen was removed via protests, former King Maedros ascended to the throne and attempted to mend the fence between Westmoor and Fontan. He formally apologised over the incident and formally ceased all claims and rights to Krimml and acknowledged it belonged to Fontan. We attempted to make peace and heal the wounds, Fontan was never interested in this.

I also will remind you that Fontan and Sirion heavily damaged the city when you forcibly retook it. Dont blame this on Westmoor when it was your own fault for causing the damage to it.

Prior to the ceasefire, Westmoor sued quite vigorously for peace. We agreed to halt our forces within Westmoorian lands while we held diplomatic discussions with your Ambassadors. Yet, during this time, Fontan kept sending forces into our lands, striking at our nobles and plundering regions for tax gold.

After we agreed to the ceasefire we put together a fair and just peace agreement which Fontan refused to accept. Even Sirion's leader agreed it was a reasonable peace proposal that we had put forth.

Instead you make unreasonable demands for insane amounts of gold for damage to property your own forces made, try to make claims on Westmoorian lands, attempt to impose unreasonable military restrictions on our bordering regions.

No, Fotan never wanted peace. Just breathing room so they could rebuild.

I accept the issue over Krimml and what happened, former King Flaylen made a mistake on that part which caused hostilities between the two realms. But after he was removed, Westmoor made attempts more than once, to rectify the situation.

What attempts or efforts did Fontan make at all, if any??

None.

Speaking as a player, I personally wish Basilius had let the matter lie until Fontan had an army with which to fight a war, but he didn't and as my character Rhidhana was Minister of Defence she fought the most effective campaign she could under the circumstances. Westmoor by contrast fought a very poor campaign, punctuated if I remember rightly by one of their semi-regular civil wars.

All military activity stopped when the ceasefire was agreed. That's the point of a ceasefire.

Since then Fontan has allowed Westmoor more than enough opportunities to sign the peace treaty agreed subsequent to the ceasefire but King Jor seemed determined to keep removing equitable terms and replacing them with terms wholly advantageous to Westmoor, which was not a fair reflection of the military situation at the time of the ceasefire.

King Jor must think that starting a war now and displaying Westmoor's usual military competence will drag Perdan and Caligus in, allowing him to gain Fontan's lands as a gift from them. There's no other reasonable justification for picking a war which his realm is very likely to lose.

255

East Island / Re: Fontan's Surprising Strength

« on: April 05, 2012, 04:23:05 PM »

All that winking you did made me suspicious, but it's amazing how you managed to get 15 nobles in less than a week or two. Explain that, did all of sudden people want to say. "Hey, let's all go to this one duchy realm instead of going to the almighty Sirion or Perdan!" Nobody cares about your "Fontan secret" I just want to know how 55 nobles don't cash starve lords...

I'd guess many of them are refugees from the south. When a realm the size of Ibladesh self-destructs many players lose interest in the rebuilding, something we experienced in Fontan when the war with Sirion ended. There's also been some immigration from Sirion which now lacks any obvious enemy.

If Fontan's last rise to prominence taught us anything it's that the scent of a good war encourages immigration, whilst the boisterous nature of a democracy leads to a high rate of retention. That's how at one time we had 160+ nobles.

As to the finances of those nobles, I assume some of them are relying on family gold but there's hardly any crime in that. I have characters in the Colonies who have to do much the same at times.