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Messages - PolarRaven

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16
BM General Discussion / BattleMaster Front page.
« on: May 15, 2020, 09:49:57 PM »
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BattleMaster is a game played from your browser where grand stories unfold created by the interactions and imaginations of players. It focuses on battle, teamwork, and roleplay where the power is in your hands to create your own destiny and alter the course of history, forever. It takes place in a medieval setting where you create a character and join other players in a realm of your choosing. Your character will be of noble blood, start off as a Knight, and as your ambition demands, perhaps one day reach the ranks of Duke, General, Ruler, or more. Your character will fight alongside their realm's fellow nobles against nobles from enemy realms in order to win wars. Cities will be conquered, regions will be defended, and blood will be spilled in the name of honor, glory, culture, and power. Take part in forging alliances, destroying empires, fighting holy wars, and more in an ever changing landscape created by players, for players, where the victors are envied and enter the pages of history.

Battlemaster is a lightweight slow paced game designed to be played alongside your other activities with turns every 12 hours at 6AM and 6PM UTC . Depending on your desires and your characters' tasks, you can spend as little as 10 minutes per day on your characters, or over an hour based on what you want to do, roleplay, and achieve each day. A typical response time to letters and messages is measured in hours, not minutes, and many play Battlemaster from their smartphone while on the go.

Casually fight wars by wielding sword or bow, devise military strategy and lead fellow nobles by commanding the armies of your realm, vie for power among ambitious nobles and realms by engaging in political intrigue, spread your religion's faith and embark on a crusade for purposes only known to you: these are some of the many choices you will make. In Battlemaster, you create your own destiny, and all that stand in your path make victory that much sweeter when you overcome all that oppose you. Join Battlemaster now, every day is another chance for you to attain fame and honor!

17
Development / Re: More hostile diplomatic options
« on: May 14, 2020, 01:41:47 AM »
Have we considered removing the FEDARATED and ALLIED stances from the game?
It would certainly make "dogpiling" a realm MUCH more inconvenient.  (though likely still possible)
I am not sure how the battles would play out, but it would certainly be an interesting concept.

18
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 14, 2020, 01:20:14 AM »
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If you want something acted on, you need to report it. Period.

Yep, I got it, which should be apparent when just a couple of lines later I take responsibility for my lack of action at that time.

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But OK, that's on me because I did not submit a report to the Titans.

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    The Devs have, for quite a while now, been pushing towards larger realms for all the islands. (known fact)


Possibly known, but incorrect—or, at the very least, incomplete.

What we're pushing for is fewer very small realms.
Really?  What is the significant difference between the two statements? 
Fewer very small realms (essentially =) larger realms?
Please try to quit picking on the wording of my comments, it will only bring on toxicity which I am truly trying to avoid.

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    I leave you to draw your own conclusions.


And now you are being insulting to me and to the Titans, and I will not tolerate that. And don't try to bull!@#$ me by trying to say you never said anything insulting: there is no possible meaning to what you said there other than to insinuate that we are favouring Thalmarkin over other realms because of a hidden agenda.

Leaving others to draw their own conclusions is insulting to you and the Titans?
Lets be very clear here then.  I really don't care if Thal lives or dies. 
I AM NOT CURRENTLY PLAYING A CHARACTER ON BT SO REALLY HAVE NO PERSONAL VESTED INTEREST EITHER WAY.
I am sharing MY opinions and concerns, as a player, for the entire game of BattleMaster.

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We are open about our intentions. We do not have an ulterior motive. I take accusations that we do—however weasel-worded they may be—very seriously, and very, very negatively.

And my response to them is the same as usual: If you really believe that I'm the kind of person who would do that, hiding behind false intentions, why the hell are you still playing the game I'm in charge of?

YES, you are open about your intentions and NO, I do not suspect ulterior motives.
The game you are in charge of.  Thank you again for all of your hard work.  It may not always seem so, but we (I) appreciate all the time and energy that you invest into our having fun.
I suspect that you, as a programmer/developer have a "VISION" of what YOU would like to see as an end result of your hard and dedicated work to a project that you are overseeing/creating.  And this is your prerogative of course, because you are the one putting in the hard, time consuming work to try to make the game fun for all of us.

When circumstances within the game go towards YOUR VISION of how the game should be, all is good and some small inconsistencies may be overlooked for the overall betterment of the game that is headed towards YOUR VISION of the game.

But when circumstances go against this "vision", say a larger realm that has many happy/fun players in it who are enjoying themselves so much that that realm becomes a "go to realm" for new players to be directed to so they will have a good experience and hopefully remain in the game... things start to change.

My own personal conclusions/observations.  Right or wrong, they are MY conclusions.  You need not agree.

Why do I still play the game you are in charge of?
Well, I have been playing for over 10 years now and enjoy many of the facets of the game.
If I must enjoy EVERY facet of the game to be allowed to play, then it may be time for me to move on.
Bear in mind, that there are probably many people like me that enjoy many, but not ALL, facets of the game.
Where would the game be without people like me?

If it would be a better place without my contributions, PLEASE just say so, and I will move along to allow the remaining players the opportunity to get the full enjoyment of the game without my input.

I won't quote it here because I already said it earlier in this thread, but you may want to refer back to an earlier response that I made to Andrew's earlier comment.  What is more important to you, player fun or your vision?

19
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 13, 2020, 10:08:07 PM »
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What I would like to ask of "you" (in quotes because it's not "you, Matt" or even "you, the realms arrayed against Thalmarkin now", but "any rulers who are in the situation in the future of preparing to be one of several realms declaring war on one realm") in the future is that you first talk to the realm about to get its butt kicked, preferably on the Ruler/Admin OOC channel so that we can be present to help mediate, and make sure there's a good enough understanding on both sides of what you're all getting into that the players involved aren't faced with nasty surprises.

WOW!!!  Really???

"Hi there, I just wanted to let you know that I will be moving my Character to your realm in the next few days to cause as much havoc as possible and to try to undermine your realm. I hope that now is not an inconvenient time for you, but now is when it is best for me.
I have over 100 scrolls and will be using most of them to disrupt our realm to the best of my ability while our army is away fighting a war.  If this will be too big an inconvenience now, just let me know when will be a good time for you and we can work out a time that will be more convenient to both of us."

"Hello, we are planning to attack your western border as soon as we get reports of you fighting on your eastern border."

"Hi, we four guys that just joined your realm have a specific purpose in mind.  We are expecting to gather support from among your realm-mates to over-throw your government in a rebellion.  If it is not too inconvenient, we were hoping to have this support by the end of the week, so please prepare for this by pretending not to know and being unprepared when it happens."

"Just a heads up for you, once we see that your entire army has arrived in OS on the other end of the continent from your realm (Thalmarkin), we who are your quiet neutral neighbors plan to take advantage of the fact that you have no mobile troops close to home and will be raiding your lands for gold and food while your troops are away in the south."


Knowing this OOC will cause MOST people to at least consider their actions twice before actually acting. 
I know that we would like to think ourselves above this sort of gameplay, but it is human nature to protect oneself. 

I understand that OOC information is not "allowed" to be used IG, but if you KNOW that some form of trouble is coming your way most people will take or avoid actions in an effort to reduce their losses.  You may not act directly to the available OOC information, but you more likely to take more precautions and less likely to risk reckless actions with this OCC information in the back of your mind.


20
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 13, 2020, 09:18:12 PM »
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Quote from: Gildre on Today at 05:59:11 PM

    If we don't know about something, we can't do anything about it.

I think that what this really means is:
If nobody submits a complaint through the proper channels, we can/will not deal with it.
______

I find it very hard to believe that:
A)  There would have been no discussion about this (being the Grehkia conflict) on discord.
B)  There are no Titans on Discord to see the above mention.

I know that I complained at least a bit about Thal and other allies becoming involved in the Caelint/Gotland incident, on both Discord and the Forum as well as OOC in the game.
But OK, that's on me because I did not submit a report to the Titans.

On a separate note:
Have you (addressed to everyone, not any particular person) never sat around the table playing a game with your friends and thought to yourself, "You bastards.  I am going to get you next time."

My question comes from years of playing a board-game called RISK. 
I remember many times when MY FRIENDS would all gather together at some point or another and gang up on the player (also a friend and sometimes me) that was currently "winning" the game.  Did they come together to punish a specific player? No.  They combined their strengths to deal with the player currently running "rough-shod" over all the other players.  Is this fair?  HELL NO, it is not.
Occasionally things did get a little heated and people said mean things or threatened to quit playing or not come back for next time...
In the end we were all buddies and happily joined in the next time the game came up.  REGARDLESS of how "bad" the previous experience was.

LIFE IS NOT ALWAYS FAIR
PLAYING A BOARD-GAME WITH FRIENDS IS NOT ALWAYS FAIR.
Why should BattleMaster be any different?

If you feel so secure in your position that you do not take the time to worry about what other people are thinking of your choices and actions, then it is no surprise that you will have them "knocking at your door" with various concerns and complaints (quite possibly all at the same time).
Are they "conspiring against you" or merely RESPONDING to YOUR actions?

I think Gildre said it best:
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Grow up.

Sorry, one more thought to consider:
The Devs have, for quite a while now, been pushing towards larger realms for all the islands. (known fact)
Larger realms have more room and opportunity for "fun" while smaller realms can be much quieter and often (though not always) less fun.
Caelint/Angmar/Gotland/Grehkia were all smaller realms when they were on the wrong side of a "dogpile" type situation and eventually fell to be ultimately merged into Irondale. 
No big deal because the end result is one of the goals that the Devs have been pushing for for quite a while now, one large realm instead of four smaller ones.
Thalmarkin, a larger, more engaging/active realm comes under fire for its previous actions and it is time to step in and make the game more fair.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

21
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 12, 2020, 10:44:27 PM »
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PolarRaven,
My apologies; I did only skim your earlier message, and thus ended up with the wrong impression. The point I made was still important, but apparently you were not the right one to address it to!  :-[

Thank you.  And again I am sorry for any confusion that I may have caused.

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They are war prisoners of a war that does not exist.


23
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 12, 2020, 06:46:25 AM »
I believe that the following (found in the "Announcements" section of this forum) answers 1 of your questions.

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December 2018 Recent Changes
« Reply #1: December 22, 2018, 11:34:19 PM »

    Fix unit highlighting in battle
    Disabled access to food distribution on stable islands (was never intended to be on stable)
    Include duke in recipients when writing 'all nobles of duchy'
    Update dynamic map
    Mark old hunts as inactive every turn
    Send message to realm when property/wealth taxes are updated
    Only allow building harbours and shipyards in 'coast' regions; update Beluaterra's 'lake' regions surrounding Lake Salaman to 'coast' regions
    Limit alliances/federation chains to one-third of human-held regions on an island
    Fix minimap
    Temporarily disable Citizen Militia


There may be a more descriptive answer somewhere else, but this is all that I came up with.

24
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 11, 2020, 09:35:35 PM »
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Mate, you need me to point out where they are.
Actually, no I do not need you to point out where they are.

I only add this because we are so concerned about HOW things are written here.

My previous post to Wimpie was an answer to the "concept" that I believed he was trying to share, while this post is an answer to the question he "actually" asked.

I wonder which of my two responses to Wimpie is the more correct response for this forum...

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BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 11, 2020, 09:19:56 PM »
Sorry for the confusion Wimpie.
I didn't think that I said "active", but "listed" as members of Thal on discord.
(actually, I just checked and I did say active. SORRY yet again)
I am sorry for the improper wording of my post.
I actually have no idea how active they actually are on discord (or IG for that matter). 
I am still learning the bot commands of Discord and was impressed that I actually figured out how to list the Thal members that are on Discord. 

So let me re-write it as it was meant:
From the bot command on Discord there are close to 20 members of Thal "listed" as having a Discord account.
(technically they are "active" on discord because they "activated" their discord account, but maybe they do not participate regularly)
The 30 number was garnered from the stats page which does not give exact numbers on the graph presented, so there are about 30 players "listed" as members of Thal.  Their characters are there whether they actively participate in the realm or not.


So once again, I apologize for the specific wording of my posts on the forums and would like to thank all of you have taken the time to help me correct the wording of the concepts that I have tried to share. 

Honestly though, I have been posting to the forums to try to help improve the game with ideas and concepts, not to have my writing style picked apart.  I believe that this will likely be my last post to the forums, because I have no desire to keep apologizing to people for the wording of the concepts I am trying to convey. 

I can see why so few people bother with the forums in recent times.  It is not really a welcoming environment here.

26
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 11, 2020, 03:35:13 AM »
This change is not specifically in regards to what happened on Beluaterra, but a response to what the developers of BattleMaster have collectively witnessed over sixteen (16) plus years of playing and watching and trying to improve the game.

If you believe you can make a better game, I encourage you to do so. The browser-based and strategy game ecosystems could use some more variety.

If you believe the admins and developers are pushing a hidden agenda, it's because we don't say often enough that we do these things because want people to enjoy the game. I apologize that we're not clearer on that.

Sorry to have put you on the "back burner" Andrew, but Gildre's reply was more in line with the ongoing conversation, so I felt it more appropriate to respond to his post first.
I haven't been around for the entire sixteen plus years, but I have been watching and playing BM for over ten years now. 

I certainly could not make a better game, mostly because I lack the programming skills required to make ANY game.
If I had those skills, I would have certainly volunteered long ago to help with the programming and development of BM.

To be clear, I did not specify "hidden" agenda.  My point was that he will do as he wishes (what he feels is best for the game) regardless of my opinion.

I understand that there can not be a game without those that are able (and willing) to program said game.
BUT, without some form of feedback from the players, it is hard to say whether or not your programming efforts are being effective.
You could program the most perfect game in the world, but if no players are interested in playing your perfect game, how good is the game you have made?

Player feedback is almost as important as the actual programming of the game itself.
Programmers who have the attitude of "this is how I programmed it so this is what you get" tend to not produce great games.
Even those programmers with the attitude of "if you can do better then make your own" tend to produce nothing more than mediocre games.

BattleMaster is a very complex game trying to meet the needs of various types of play styles.
There are anything from the warmongering tyrants who would prefer to only write "orders" for their realm to those that would rather sit in a city rolling out stories of "pretty flowers" without ever seeing a battle. 

A developer must weigh the opinions of ALL the players and gear their programming to meet the needs of as many of the different play styles as possible. 
OR
The developer can concentrate on what the developer wants to see in their game and explain to some of the players that they are playing the wrong game if that is how they want to play.
I believe that BattleMaster falls under the first description, though on occasion, the latter seems more prevalent in the decision making process.

27
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 11, 2020, 12:50:56 AM »
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First of all, this is in no way constructive. The Devs and Admins have volunteered their time to work on the game.

You're right, that was rude of me to say.  I apologize. 
Though, it is also rude of Devlin to ignore my response (addressed to him specifically) to his inquiries and skip to commenting on the next comment/post.   
I have said this many times in the past, but will say it again,
Thanks to all the Devs and other people that make it possible for us to play this game.
With that said, I understand we get what they are willing to give (have to play the game as they offer it), but I do not have to agree with everything they implement.

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I don't understand why people take this low-road when they don't get the answers they like, but it is incredibly immature and I personally have no problem calling it out as garbage behavior.

It has nothing to do with the answer I received, it was the lack of an answer while he moved on to the next part, skipping over the part that was directed specifically to his earlier mentioned concerns.  Rude will often elicit rude in return. 
Again I apologize, I should have kept it civil even though I felt he was being rude.

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There is always concern for the fun of any player. That is literally what we try to do. Make the game fun and fair. That being said, the Titans and Admins do not actively police the game. It would be impossible. We rely on the community and player reports. So I ask you, was the alliance bloc system in place when this happened? If so, was Thalmarkin outside the bloc? If so, did you submit a Titan report? I can't stress this enough. If something breaks the rules, actively ruins someone's fun in a malicious way, or just seems wrong, then submit a Titan report. Don't just mention things to people. People forget, we are all fallible. Even if you don't know if it is a Titan worthy offense, submit it and let us decide. It does zero harm, but not letting us know can and usually does cause problems.

Yes, the alliance bloc system was in place at the time and no they were not outside the block limit.  Lets talk about the possible flaw in that system.
The system uses REGIONS as the measuring factor of how strong an alliance bloc is.  Regions give you resources, but it is the NOBLE count that wins a war.  At that time Thal was receiving many new players (being directed there from DISCORD as a good realm to start in).  Thal had very few regions at that time (don't recall specifically), and about 40+ nobles.  Thal had great density at that time, so it was considered a good thing and nothing to worry about.  So a Titan report was not "warranted" because no one was really abusing the system, it was the system that was flawed (in MY opinion).  Anyway, the bloc system is what it is and it's obviously here to stay.  In the end it should work for all, but there will likely be "legitimate" ways around it.

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It has already been stated that this concept that was introduced today has been a long time work in progress. The fact that it is coming to fruition now and not during your particular conflict is coincidental.

Purely co-incidental.  OK, I am willing to take your word on that.

BUT, here is how it looked to me before you cleared it up:
A) This ideal is in the works (for years), on the back-burner.
B) Several months ago there was a big upset on the East Island about the ongoing "North vs South" war.
C) This ideal is now pushed to the forefront
D) The members of Thalmarkin (close to 20 on discord and about 30 in realm) complain about being gangbanged (in a war they declared/started) and threaten to quit when their own actions have finally caught up with them
E) Within a few days, the ideal is completed enough to go live.

Hate to loose so many players that are active both on discord and in game.

But since I have your word that the timing was purely co-incidental we can move on from this.

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So? A landslide victory is boring and no fun for anyone involved. Remember that this is a game. Believe it or not, you were not actually a citizen of Caelint who was wronged. Think about the game for a moment instead of personal vendetta.

I can't say, I don't recall ever being part of a landslide victory, though I can assure you it was not much fun on the loosing side.
Now that I think back though, I seem to recall an awful lot of enjoyment being posted in the letters that I seen from the Thal alliance bloc players at the time both IG and on discord.  Your theory about no one enjoying a landslide victory may not be entirely accurate.
I am thinking of the game.  I have not had a noble on BT for quite a while now so I have NO personal stake in this situation.

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You can easily stack the deck in a war like that to have an 80% chance of victory, where the other side at least has a chance to struggle and things are still up for grabs. But outnumbering your opponent 4 nobles to 1 obliterates any chance those players have to have fun, and quite honestly is no fun for your own players.

So why do it? Because it happened to you? Grow up.

But, the alliance bloc does not take this into account.  It is measured by REGIONS held, not nobles.
When I was in Caelint, I believe we actually were facing close to 4 to 1 (nobles) odds.  And you are right, it was not so much fun.  But as I said above, the other side seemed to be enjoying themselves.
Your statement seems to imply that this particular situation (Thal being on "the other side" of a lopsided conflict) was orchestrated by players from various other realms.  I could be wrong, but I really doubt that the rest of the continent got together and said "Hey, lets gang up on Thalmarkin and destroy that realm".
If I understand correctly, it was Thalmarkin who declared War on Caelint once again this time round.  So, really, how can this even be considered OOC powergaming as the former, missing ruler of Thalmarkin complained before he rage quit?  I can not speak for others as to why they decided to join in on the war, but as I have said previously, Thalmarkin has meddled in just about every other realms' affairs at one point or another in recent history.  Some may have questionable reasons, but some seem to have very valid reasons for wanting in on the war.
Why do it?  There are many VALID IG reasons for certain realms/nobles on BT to want a piece of Thalmarkin.  If you need specific reasons, you will need to ask them as I have not had a noble on BT for quite a while now and my current information comes from other sources (discord, forums, OOC ruler channel...)

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Don't be sarcastic. You are typing to an audience from many countries and cultures. If you try to convey a point in this environment using sarcasm, it is your fault for any miscommunication. Completely ridiculous and inappropriate. Be clear and concise if you want to be taken seriously. When I read your first post, I had zero doubt that you were defending Thalmarkin. Once you explained it, I could kind of see the sarcasm upon re-reading, but the cost is you having to explain it and we have all wasted time.

Got it.  Which should be fairly obvious though since the part of my message that you have quoted also includes my apology for doing so.
"Completely ridiculous and inappropriate" ?  Well, where I come from, telling one to "Grow up" is seen in quite the same light as sarcasm.  Please keep this in mind for your future writings to this multi-cultural forum.

I am sorry that I am not perfect at conveying my point at all times on all things. 
We do the best we can when sharing ideals and sometimes things need further explanation to get a point across.
I am also sorry for wasting both your time and Devlins while trying to share my thoughts and opinions on this matter.

The funny part here, is that it seems like you are more interested in HOW the opinion is presented rather than what the actual opinion is trying to convey.

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BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 10, 2020, 01:08:09 AM »
And yet you ignore the previous post that was directed to you specifically.
I can't say that I am surprised.

Push your agenda and rest assured that I have nothing further to add on this subject.

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BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 10, 2020, 12:49:14 AM »
The fact that you share a common enemy does not make you allies.

Walk into a room with 10 strangers and smack each of them in the mouth on your way by.
All of a sudden 10 strangers who don't know each other and have nothing in common (other than the smack in the mouth that you just gave them) have a common goal. 

Are ANY of them in the wrong for wanting to return your smack in the mouth?

30
BM General Discussion / Re: OOC power-gaming???
« on: May 09, 2020, 11:31:59 PM »
Devlin,
I am sorry. 
To be clear, I am not a member of Thalmarkin and do not even have a noble on the continent at this time.
I was a former ruler of Caelint but left the continent due to the actions of Thalmarkin and their (then) allies.

I think I must not have expressed my point clearly enough.
The point you have quoted was meant to be sarcastic.

Let me rephrase the part you have quoted without sarcasm:

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So why is everyone, all of a sudden, out to get Thalmarkin and ganging up on them?
It must certainly be OOC powergaming that is to blame. 

The real answer to that question is this:
Thalmarkin has "bullied" most of the continent for quite some time now and it is not hard to believe that many people/most realms have an understandable dislike for the realm. 
This is the first time, in quite a while, that Thalmarkin has been vulnerable so why wouldn't realms with a past grudge not take advantage of that?   

There was no sympathy or concern for the fun of players in Caelint when Thalmarkin decided to "support their ally Gotland".
Although they were only one realm, they far outmatched Caelint in all aspects, but decided to join and skew what would have been a fairly evenly matched one on one war. 
Even after Caelint's allies joined the fray, Thalmarkin (being only one realm) still outmatched our side in resources and nobles.

Those people that actually feel like this is OOC powergaming are only looking at the current state of events where we see many realms "ganging up" on Thalmarkin for "no reason". 
What I am saying is by looking at the history of Thalmarkin's actions, it is not hard to see that the current situation has arrived. 
The bully has tripped and all of the smaller guys have decided to rush in and get a poke at them while they are down.

And now they cry fowl and threaten to leave the game because everyone else has decided to pick on them for "no reason".

I think that if you re-read my post without my bit of sarcasm, you will see that I do NOT believe that this is a case of "power-gaming", but an unavoidable consequence of the actions of those players in Thalmarkin.


*****THEIR OWN ACTIONS HAVE BROUGHT THEM TO THIS POINT.*****

^ = MY conclusion when properly and thouroughly read.

And Devlin, I would ask that if you are going to comment on one or two sentences from what I have written, please take the time to read the entire message before doing so.  Again, I am sorry for the sarcasm, but I believe that anyone who read the entire message would likely see that the part you refer to was being sarcastic.
(I understand that you have likely been waiting for this to hit the forums so that you could catch it before it blew up, but I don't think you gave my letter the attention it deserved because you only commented on such a small part of it.)

______________________________

The unsportsmanlike conduct here was (in MY opinion) when the former ruler of Thalmarkin publicly accused basically every player on the continent of POWER GAMING and then quit the game. 
That single event has ruined this particular war and discouraged many players from wanting to be involved. 
It has also ensured that Thalmarkin will survive, likely with little damage done to it, to avoid further accusations of "power-gaming".

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