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Messages - Chenier

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7606
Development / Re: Infiltrators
« on: June 13, 2011, 01:11:15 AM »
What's the alternative: sitting back for a few months and then being on godmode for years? Infil actions can do some pretty serious damage, if it's so hard to catch them a single infil could totally wreck a realm. Elite infils can already do serious damage on a realm.

7607
East Island / Re: Propogandize Me
« on: June 12, 2011, 11:14:50 PM »
I've never played on the East Island and know little about it, it's history, or it's realms.

You'd be better off staying that way.  8)

7608
Didn't they name Hetland after a BM player who died?  How is that insulting?

Because 1) the realm was a total disgrace, but mostly because 2) they claimed that any attack upon their realm was an attack upon the player after which it was named. They seriously accused us of disrespecting that player on at least one occasion, two though I believe. Just because of how pathetic that realm was.

Not all of them, mind you, but some of them did. The vocal ones, at least. That realm felt like it was populated by inbreds, the shear outrageousness of some of their OOC whining and complaints really brewed a deep disliking for them among myself, ^ban^, and a number of others.

7609
Feature Requests / Re: Starvation with Teeth
« on: June 12, 2011, 09:18:59 PM »
It would increase incentives to go to war if your realm is starving. Maybe your neighbor has extra food but wouldn't sell them. Or maybe you think his prices are unfair. Or maybe he says he doesn't have extra food but you think he's holding out on you. Or maybe he really doesn't have food to spare for you but you just plain don't care anymore. You can wait for all your troops to starve to death, or you can grab some caravans, cross the border, and start looting.

On Dwilight, you'll just have to start planning better, and have your knights bring food along with you on the campaign. That's already implemented. Your troops will eat food from your caravan if the region is starving.

One secession and war has already started in Dwilight due to food price disputes.

Err, no. I'm not suggesting ice or fire magic. Poison is a weapon that was utilized in medieval Europe.

And SMA only applies to Dwilight. There are other islands.

Looting your neighbour for food because he ain't selling enough to you is a poor strategy, as war damages production and you'll just lock yourself in a vicious cycle in which he'll be even less able to supply you with anything.

If it's cause he is holding out, though, that's another story.

But keep in mind most rogue regions are starving, and on Dwilight you frequently have to pass by a few of these to get to most realms.

7610
Helpline / Re: Investment
« on: June 12, 2011, 09:05:50 PM »
Alright, here's a more clearer point:

Just how far do you want it to go before you're satisfied?

Sure, let's say we add in stuff like canals, and harvesting machines (as in simple machines, non-electrical. I hope the word "machine" hasn't been too distorted in our minds), and maybe let's even put in a husbandry program to teach the farmers how Mendelian genetics work many centuries before Mendel comes around. Ah, but wait! We have to consider that some regions have more than just plain old farming as its industry. Why should agriculture have all the attention! I say that logging, and hunting, and fishing, and mining, and stoneworking, and jewel crafting, all are just as worthy of attention!

Especially for places like mountains. What're you investing in when you make the investment then? The two sqaure meter patch of "farmland" in your estate's backyard? No, I say we invest in a mine!

Now let's make sure our mining is as well thought out as our farming, because we wouldn't like to be too heavily favoring a certain region type, would we? That would unbalance the game! So for mines, we can say we develop better drills, stabler shafts, better freight transport, among other things.

Then for forest regions, we can't forget logging! We need to have better woodcutting devices, better ways of transporting felled trees, methods to prevent insects and disease from killing them, more efficient processing of wood to remove leaves and bark, etc.

Fishing? It's not like farming at all! We need to allow the lord to have the option for better nets, or bigger boats, or more ports.

And you know what? All the aforementioned options should be different choices, with different effects on the production, and all decay at different rates due to different factors.

You probably think this is an extreme illustration, but I consider it a fair treatment of the other potential resource sectors. You can't just go on to invest and improve only agriculture, because the fact is, it's not just agriculture that is being affected when you invest. Food is only half of the picture. The other half has to do with the non-sustenance industries. Treat them with attention too, but how much are you willing to go such that first you would have features that you think are useful, and second, have balance in how much detail you have?

Hence why my main suggestion was just to make generic investments increase production in rurals by lesser amounts, but to have the food production cap removed. That way, to each his interpretation of what that investment actually is.

The complexity level is up to the devs. Removing the food production cap is of relatively little complexity. But there are desires to make the trading game generally more complex, by adding all kinds of resources: metal, wood, etc. It was also suggested to implement fishing as functioning differently than harvesting. Honestly, I like the trading game. It makes people interact with each other. It promotes cooperation and conflict all at the same time. And the more complex it becomes, the more opportunities there can be. And so I wouldn't mind specialized buildings to help farmlands, fishing, mining, and lumber, as long as their cost and upkeep make it balanced. But to what point do we want this aspect of the game to be complex? I don't know. It's hard to say what the impacts of the planned new economy system will be, and complexification would best be done after we get to experience it a little, rather than have massive new complex changes applied overnight. I'm confident that if it were just for food, and that it was a single building that could only be built in rurals and townslands and that had no consideration over what type of food collection was done, it *could* be implemented in a balanced way that does not impose micro-management on those who aren't interested, simply because rurals and pretty much everywhere on every continent. The same can't yet be said for the new economy goods, but I just like the overall idea of being able to build infrastructure to improve production, just as we can build new RCs or improve existing ones to increase soldier output.

7611
Helpline / Re: Investment
« on: June 12, 2011, 04:57:25 PM »
Chenier, lead by example then. Let's say we integrate this. Are you really willing to prove a point that even you, who championed this feature, would in fact show everyone how optional it is by exercising the option not to use it?

Uh, no? I said balanced in a way that people who don't care for it won't need it. I clearly care for food production, and already am spending significant effort on the issue and dumping a good share of my city's gold on it. Could you imagine that if the lords' caravans were still a feature request, I'd show my support for having them and proving lords won't be forced to use them by promising not to use them myself? No, caravans are a huge support, and hell yes I use them, even if it means I'm dumping a lot of gold on risky ventures that take a very long time to pay off, and as such have to frequently pay attention to make sure I have enough of them on the field all the time. Same applies for means to boost food production, I'll spend the time and effort to maximize the use whatever's available. In D'Hara, at least, I probably wouldn't bother on BT if the new feature is well balanced, because there ain't much trade on BT to make any such investment really worth it.

7612
Beluaterra / Re: the conflict looming
« on: June 12, 2011, 04:48:22 PM »
One thing I'd suggest would be to look through the theology of existing and past religions. When I first started thinking about this project, I noticed that  many of those I looked up had at least one aspect that was echoed by the last invasion (if not the previous). I don't remember the specifics off the top of my head, but it's things like the Cult who preached the divine power of blood (the Light used it as a weapon), the druids who talked about some tree acting as the seal against evil (the NPCs spoke about a seal keeping the dark forces out that was wearing down and then breaking), and stuff like that. A number of faiths had "predicted" little bits of lore and could have easily said, during the invasion, "Ha! Told you so! We are the real deal around here!", but none of them actually did.

7614
Feature Requests / Prefferential trading
« on: June 12, 2011, 06:39:49 AM »
It'd be nice if it were possible to set up preferential trading prices, according to the trader or lord's home region/duchy/realm. I might want, for example, to make sure the prices are good enough to pay for our trader's long missions to far-away lands (to keep up with mercenary escort cost, caravan cost, scout cost in addition to the actual food costs), while not really wanting to pay as much to foreigners from right next door who don't have any of these costs to cover. A bit of protectionism would sound reasonable to me.

7615
Helpline / Re: Investment
« on: June 11, 2011, 11:05:15 PM »
This is exactly the kind of thing we're trying to move towards.

However, there's a problem with it.

What you and I and the game consider "optional micro-management," many rulers will consider necessary, and they'll then force their subordinates to do it, because, naturally, they have to have their regions' stats as high as possible all the time!

So even if the game doesn't make it "forced micro-management," the players are likely to.  :-\  >:(

I understand the fear for this fully. But I don't believe we need to concern ourselves all that much with it, as I don't believe people are that insane on micro-management. I often see incentives to do the little things, but I don't see punishment for neglecting to do them. As such, I don't see punishments for not having one's estates enlarged to a maximum (while I do see incentives for it), I don't see lords punished for not having enough RCs or big enough walls (though I do see support to build them), I don't see people being punished for not switching to courtier class if there are some stat problems (mind you, it's an IR, but I occasionally do see some courtiers being rewarded because of the tasks they accomplish), etc.

The micro-management problems are more related as to what people do, and not what they build, from my experience. Would you agree with this observation? As long as the boosts are balanced (with an upkeep that requires the region lord to actually sell food to not have the new infrastructure act as a big drain on his gold), in other words that they require a little work to actually be worth it, I don't think it'll be a huge concern. Dukes who want their rurals to produce more will simply send the lords the compensations for it and take care of all the planning themselves.

7616
BM General Discussion / Re: Sharing lords gold, whats up with that?
« on: June 11, 2011, 10:49:31 PM »
I'm a member of the Dwilight trade guilds, and I already know that Garret is the one that set the food price for the island at 50, by offering to buy at that price. You single-handedly increased the price Gornak can buy food at, from 25 to 50. D'Hara can probably afford that price--assuming that the supply is there--but I should probably think about starting some rumors about the army that Garrett is trying to feed.

Garret Atermesia offered more than that. Indeed, the letter resurfaced just now in realm. However, they lack the traders to import food at that price, and most realms lack the traders to export it as well. Furthermore, the trade route to Nightmarch is perilous, most caravans never make it, and the realms within range don't have a really huge surplus. As such, the Zuma's trade offer wasn't totally discarded, just put on the backburner for now. Paisly's increase in its offer was because markets were becoming more limited and Paisly's own stores were starting to run out for the first time in a while. It was therefore to encourage purchases from a greater number of sources, to make it more affordable to buy from those who don't sell their food for cheap. It had nothing to do with the Zuma.

7617
Dwilight / Re: Dwilight IC and OOC updates and news!
« on: June 11, 2011, 10:43:00 PM »
:-[

In some cultures, it didn't. They started having sex so young, that they just didn't associate the result with the act. In one culture, at least. I don't quite remember the specifics, one of my anthropology manuals mentioned it at some point though a few years back.

Not SMA at all, though.

7618
Helpline / Re: Investment
« on: June 11, 2011, 06:57:19 PM »
So I'm going to say something possibly more controversial than usual.

With this talk about more agriculture detail, or religion refinements, I think this is distracting to the game. I think it harms it more than bring good. There is a certain balance for features, and I think we're going to an extreme.

If these features help people find this game more interesting. The current atmosphere feels a lot like we're trying to cram too many things into a single game. It may not necessarily work as a whole.

Don't believe me? Well, how many new players stay on now? Why do they stay? Now, for the veterans, why did you stay?

For me, it was interaction. It had nothing to do with features and I couldn't have cared less how realistic the religions or battles were. It was all about talking to other people. It was unique for its setting and lore. The features were a nice embellishment, but by no means did they make the game for me.

I think I am far from alone in thinking this.

What drives people away is forced micro-management, like the estates.

What I propose is optional micro-management. I don't hear anyone quit because bureaucrats allow region stats to be higher than they otherwise would be. Or because of how one can increase scout or caravan production by building more of their buildings, or how finding the right numbers to host a successful and profitable tournament can be tricky. This is because these things aren't required to continue playing the game. Lords aren't forced to build RCs, why would they be forced to build better agricultural infrastructure? The way I see it, they grant more opportunities to people, while not penalizing those who couldn't care less for them. This is not the type of feature that drives people away, those are rather along the lines of estates and treaty friction.

7619
Dwilight / Re: Cordatus Bestiarium
« on: June 11, 2011, 06:52:04 PM »
Which are popular to the sacrificers, I hear. ;)

True enough.  8)

7620
Beluaterra / Re: the conflict looming
« on: June 11, 2011, 06:51:38 PM »
Well it already sounds like what I had in mind, so sure.
Be patient, I will have some character travel around Beluaterra to spread it amongst similar minded when i found it, to give every open minded realm a chance to participate in the establishment of the church.

out of character wise i could always need help writing these religious texts.
As long as it Collides with the core thought, which is that there is only one god, the others faiths either (un)-consciously worshiping this god(deceived by 'variants') or worship the gods that where all slain before the bm universe was created, in other words thus an illusion, for they don't exist(anymore).
What is also very important is that as any human, once your born your blood(caste) decides what kind of life you will have/ job you will do.
The highest three castes are first the royal caste which is only two families strong(whom are lost but will return during the great salvation), then there is the noble caste which are all noble born. The third highest caste is the warriors caste, the soldiers that serve the nobles in there units.
Once this structure is respected and fully lived after, the curse in which humanity is divided in wrong or no causes, shall be lifted and peace and the prosperity of humanity will be possible on Beluaterra.
Only then, the darkness can be defeated.
The third important basic core in the faith is the realization that this life is only a tool to get into heaven, like a game that has to be played and won by anyone who follows it's rules, each person will go to the heaven of his or her caste in blissful eternal satisfaction, but will got to eternal damnation if sinned, which is endlessly more horrible then anything you can experience on earth.
And fourth, humanity is superior above others and all life is created to directly or indirectly feed humanity(children of god).
Fifth, mixing of caste is sinful and is exactly what caused castes to exist, lower castes have more genes of the beasts that degenerated humanity in the beginning.

just add your texts on the wiki page and we'll discuss it.

What I had in mind for myself was really a sort of trans-religious order, something akin to what you could expect if the knights Templar were about the "people of the book" (Christians, jews, and muslims) instead of just Christianity. If your project fits with what I have on the drawing board, then you'll find fertile lands to spread your faith where I operate, and likely military support. I am unlikely to help it replace other friendly religions, but will serve as an ally against the rest of the religions.

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