Nowhere on the IR wiki page does it say that only punishing people who exercise their IR is a violation. Nowhere does it even suggest it.
It does not. What it does is
link IG punishment with Titan action.
If it is meant to encompass the whole gamut of situations where even talking about it in a manner that even touches on IR will lead to Titan action then simply add the word
threatened to a single line in that text.
To repeat:
- The part about contacting the Titans if you're punished is clear. Everything else seems to be guidelines on how to act concerning IRs.
- If we Magistrates are of the view that messages (and therefore threats) should lead to official Magistrate action then it should be rephrased as If you are fined, banned, punished or otherwise threatened...
The existing wording is fine; maybe another sentence should be added clarifying that even sending messages suggesting the violation of IRs is a violation of said IRs.
No need for a sentence when a single word will do it.
A simple solution that clears all doubt. However, my stand is that threats would not violate the IR unless actually carried out for reasons I've already mentioned. If it came down to a vote on it I would vote not to add it in.
This is not up for discussion, either.
IIRC the creation of this courthouse is due to the unhappiness over the perceived arbitrary Titan judgements in the past and a lack of possible discussion over the issue. Certainly it is up for discussion and not just by the Magistrates but by everyone. Then the Magistrates will make a judgement with perhaps some clarification.
What part of "inalienable" do you not understand?
No noble can forfeit their right to go to tournaments.
The part where you can find an alien in able?
By renouncing or waiving their right to complain?
It is an inalienable right, which means it is yours no matter what. Someone offers you gold not to go to the tournament? Take the gold and go anyway. Or take the gold and report them anyway. You have not given up any rights.
Edward VIII's right to rule was his inalienable right as the successor to the throne until he voluntarily renounced the throne. If you accept the gold I would take it as you having voluntarily given up your right to complain about your IR being violated. Unless we are condoning OOC nastiness in accepting the gold and then making a report? I would not but apparently standards do differ.
...Though he's obviously wrong in this case.
I think that's a stupid distinction, and one you've invented to try and cover what is obviously a losing position.
I would like to remind my fellow Magistrates that this is now not just the forum but the courthouse and proper decorum should be observed and making a judgement call when no vote has yet been conducted is improper and even then the correct term would be
differ rather than
wrong. As for casting of aspersions - pure impropriety.
Oh and, by the way:
http://thesaurus.com/browse/impinge
Impinge and violate are synonyms.
Glad we're using the same Thesaurus. It makes it easier to point out the note in that link:
to impinge is to come into contact or encroach or have an impact; In reference to the IR I take it to mean to impinge is to touch the surface of the IR or to encroach upon its borders where a warning is sufficient to alert the offender to back off lest he/she moves in too far or at least have them understand where they are headed whereas a violation gives the idea that someone has gone too far.
Just as a Judge is also a synonym for Magistrate but they convey and actually have different levels of authority.
Giving orders to move "next turn" is fundamentally different
No it's not. It also necessitates a certain pace of play which goes against playing at your own speed, timing and activity level.
Requests or orders from a position of power have implicit punishments.
Which is what I said and
why would it be a problem to WAIT until IG punishment has occured before making a report? Wouldn't it be in the
better interests of the victim to wait and then:
- Get their IG punishment reversed?
- Get the perpetrator booted out?
You should tremble in fear at the idea of accidentally violating an IR.
You should not. Unless you were violating it on purpose.
It is also [1]not how Tom as decided Battlemaster should be run. [2]New players should not have to stand up for their IRs. [3]Old players should not have to constantly police each other for IR violations. That's the point of the Titans, and now the Magistrates. You think there's a violation, you toss it up here, we decide: [4]our job is not to scrap the very system within which we act. Our job is to enforce it.
[1] We are talking about the IR and that wiki document needs to be clarified and condensed, leaving out extraneous detail or putting it in another page under "How to Act" perhaps.
[2] Then no one will ever stand up for them.
[3] This is currently the practice and is available to everyone, new or old. Without "policing" as in watching out for - there will be no reports.
[4] I am not proposing scrapping but clarifying and to first enforce it we must first understand it.
No. It isn't about punishment. It's about Inalienable Rights.
I am talking about 'markers' to simplify matters. And to move it a bit further then where it is now to let official punishment be perhaps more justified and deserving. And has been said, there is no reason not to wait until IG punishment has actually been meted out.
You know you'll find? The Magistrates disagree.
We believe that requiring daily reporting of civil work with a threat of punishment for failure is an issue deserving of a warning.
We believe that giving orders to move with the army is not.
No, we do not - not yet, and to say so is a misrepresentation.
You've proposed a massive education plan, entirely new terminology for types of IR violations, rewriting of the IRs themselves, and a fundamental revision of how their meaning has always been interpreted by previous BM authorities.
A simple link to the IR wiki page IG as requested by Shizzle should be enough awareness as long as it's clear when official punishment/warning will occur. Impinge and violate would simply define warnings and punishment. The Titan link is still in-game. Let's see how the courthouse works out.
Do you actually have anything to say about the case itself?
I do and have already but to summarize:
Warn Balewin that his letters impinges upon James Marshall's IR to play at his own speed, timing and activity level and may lead to a violation should IG punishment be meted out to James Marshall's character upon which the Magistrates will lock Balewin's account for between one to three days. Further action may also be taken by a higher authority.
No, because the rules themselves were written by Tom, and he is a higher authority than all of us put together.
I have no problem with enforcing the IR the way it is envisioned by Tom but until it is clarified whether threats alone is enough for a Magistrate to take action I will continue to provide my views. I have also no problem with being replaced as a Magistrate at any time for any reason or even none at all.
