Author Topic: Religions  (Read 42165 times)

Perth

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Religions
« Topic Start: March 05, 2011, 05:36:28 AM »
It seems I have read a lot of discussion lately about some of the weaker points of the game, and areas where things tend to fall stagnant and produce stale game play. One of the larger contributors to this seems to be complaints about stale, boring and lame religions. Particularly those that are "successful" in a mechanics sense, but possess no real atmosphere or drive.

I would like to open some discussion about what makes a good religion, as opposed to these boring ones that many of us would claim only hurt game play. There are several notable ones in game, what defines them and what has set them apart from other religions? Is creating solely state-supporting religions the big problem? Is the recruiting of uncaring nobles it? Does it merely depend upon possessing confrontational and active leaders? No? Then what?

Very curious to see some analysis on this, as religion has the potential to be perhaps one of the largest drivers of game events, conflict, roleplay, etc. in the game and it is a shame to see it fall so short of this at times.
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Bedwyr

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Re: Religions
« Reply #1: March 05, 2011, 07:52:08 AM »
I think there are a few things that would vastly improve religions.  Not all of these are required, but would be quite helpful.

1. Deep mythos that makes some sort of sense.
2. Actual rituals and observances for the religion to make people feel as if being a part of it means something.
3. Specific goals (convert everyone, destroy this evil, support this good).
4. Concrete stands on various issues (no one gets fired up for wishy-washy religions).
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WarMaid

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Re: Religions
« Reply #2: March 05, 2011, 10:00:36 AM »

Because so much of religions lies in the RP, a "good" religion is one that gives people something that they can get their RP teeth into.  It's hard to get excited about promoting an empty faith.  Our BM faiths need the same things that real world faiths have (albeit on a smaller scale!)

1) Stories (particularly origin stories, tales of gods and heroes)
2) Rules and Rituals (dietary restrictions, body modifications, ways to pray, how to dress, who to hate)
3) Holidays and Celebrations
4) Philosophy (Why are we here?  Where are we going?  How do we get there?)
5) Prophecy  (The end of days!  The Chosen One!)
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Igelfeld

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Re: Religions
« Reply #3: March 05, 2011, 11:13:42 AM »
Can you guys point to any religions that are like that?
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Shenron

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Re: Religions
« Reply #4: March 05, 2011, 12:03:25 PM »
My language: (Apologies for any confusion this results in.)
Awesome = Ossim
Tom = Tarm

Bedwyr

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Re: Religions
« Reply #5: March 05, 2011, 12:04:49 PM »
Can you guys point to any religions that are like that?

Sanguis Astroism (northern Dwilight), the Blood Cult (Beluaterra), and hopefully a couple of new religions on Atamara and southern Dwilight, but until they are founded and have some time to prove themselves we'll have to wait.
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Igelfeld

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Re: Religions
« Reply #6: March 05, 2011, 12:35:54 PM »
Sanguis Astroism (northern Dwilight), the Blood Cult (Beluaterra), and hopefully a couple of new religions on Atamara and southern Dwilight, but until they are founded and have some time to prove themselves we'll have to wait.

Isn't it interesting that both of those religions are demonized and feared by people who aren't in them?
Moritz Von Igelfeld - King of Asylon
Moria Von Igelfeld - Viscountess of Lanston
Ulrich Von Igelfeld - Knight of Remton, Dark Isle Colonist

Bedwyr

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Re: Religions
« Reply #7: March 05, 2011, 01:00:45 PM »
Isn't it interesting that both of those religions are demonized and feared by people who aren't in them?

(grins) Of course they are.  Good religion provokes passion, either for or against.
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LilWolf

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Re: Religions
« Reply #8: March 05, 2011, 01:23:55 PM »
Sanguis Astroism (northern Dwilight)

Come on, from what I've read in the wiki Sanguis Astroism is one of the faiths that offers nothing for you to grab on to(no rituals, no concept of afterlife, barely anything comparable to gods, barely any concrete teachings, nothing on how we maybe came to be..you know, those important bits most religion tend to try to answer). Having been a part of it for a while all you did was scheme politics there. Sure, it's successful, but far from being a well rounded religion as far as actual teachings go(even Darkanism and Estianism have more to offer in that regard).
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DoctorHarte

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Re: Religions
« Reply #9: March 05, 2011, 03:59:44 PM »
Come on, from what I've read in the wiki Sanguis Astroism is one of the faiths that offers nothing for you to grab on to(no rituals, no concept of afterlife, barely anything comparable to gods, barely any concrete teachings, nothing on how we maybe came to be..you know, those important bits most religion tend to try to answer). Having been a part of it for a while all you did was scheme politics there. Sure, it's successful, but far from being a well rounded religion as far as actual teachings go(even Darkanism and Estianism have more to offer in that regard).

SA isn't as much evil through the religion as the people who control it. The "crusades" they are going through with in the north of Dwilight is pretty brutal. First Ravian Empire, Thulsoma, now Averoth? Caerwyn is threatened, etc.. I can't reveal much, but I know SA is one of the worse religions via their actions than their actual religion.
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LilWolf

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Re: Religions
« Reply #10: March 05, 2011, 04:15:46 PM »
SA isn't as much evil through the religion as the people who control it. The "crusades" they are going through with in the north of Dwilight is pretty brutal. First Ravian Empire, Thulsoma, now Averoth? Caerwyn is threatened, etc.. I can't reveal much, but I know SA is one of the worse religions via their actions than their actual religion.

Nothing wrong with being an religion of violent crusades against unbelievers. If you've gotten to a point where you can systematically pull that off that's great. If anything more religions should try and go for something like that, instead of being content at leaving others alone.
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Triggster

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Re: Religions
« Reply #11: March 05, 2011, 04:25:32 PM »
Quote
Nothing wrong with being an religion of violent crusades against unbelievers. If you've gotten to a point where you can systematically pull that off that's great. If anything more religions should try and go for something like that, instead of being content at leaving others alone.

Touché :)
If you look at actual history, Medieval Europe defined itself, and saw itself, as unified by its Christianity (Christendom). It's perfectly feasible for a religion to try and be domineering and use it's religion as a reason for military crusades. It is an interesting roleplay point. I admit it would be boring if SA conquered the whole of Dwilight which is why I think the other, non SA dominated realms, need to be a little more aggressive.

Vellos

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Re: Religions
« Reply #12: March 05, 2011, 08:58:50 PM »
Qyrvaggism, in Beluaterra, used to have holidays that were periodically celebrated, as well as rules on when wars were allowed to be fought. Not so anymore, at least as far as I can tell.

I've always enjoyed Way of the Warrior Saints in Atamara as well, though I felt it was underused.
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vonGenf

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Re: Religions
« Reply #13: March 05, 2011, 10:10:15 PM »
Come on, from what I've read in the wiki Sanguis Astroism is one of the faiths that offers nothing for you to grab on to(no rituals, no concept of afterlife, barely anything comparable to gods, barely any concrete teachings, nothing on how we maybe came to be..you know, those important bits most religion tend to try to answer). Having been a part of it for a while all you did was scheme politics there. Sure, it's successful, but far from being a well rounded religion as far as actual teachings go(even Darkanism and Estianism have more to offer in that regard).

On the other hand, SA does offer something for you to look to when deciding how to act: actual stars which change from day to day.

SA does have pretty intense theological debates, but they tend to focus on extremely minor points. Part of the reason is that these are the points we can actually argue about and bring in-game arguments that make sense.

After all, if one character says "The gods have talked to me, and they said they have created the world in an epic battle three thousand years ago", then what can you say to argue? Unless the BM gods are actually OOC talking to you, there is nothing to grasp to. You can make up a whole mythos, but you just make it up yourself. A minimalist mythos allows things to develop by themselves.
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DoctorHarte

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Re: Religions
« Reply #14: March 05, 2011, 10:10:30 PM »
Nothing wrong with being an religion of violent crusades against unbelievers. If you've gotten to a point where you can systematically pull that off that's great. If anything more religions should try and go for something like that, instead of being content at leaving others alone.

Perhaps, but their means of waging wars is a little over the top. I would like to see more role-playing like Dwilight is meant to hold, rather than all-out war and little correspondence.
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