Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)

[Vellos]

Second, while Matt is well aware of the organization and intrigued by it, Koli's never heard of it, or at least not in a context where he knew what the word meant.  Koli, I hope, is going to be known to history as the Great Compromiser, in both the good and bad senses, but there's little he can do when he's never even heard of this weird alliance thingy that D'hara's in.  If you want to, say, as the Ambassador of Terran make your position clear and let Koli know about how things work over there, then we can talk.  Until then there's not much I can do without breaking character knowledge.

This surprises me. The Véinsørmoot is on the wiki, as is the Treaty of the Maroccidens. Its all public information, and I know for a fact that I went parading around Pian en Luries a year or so ago telling everyone about all the shiny guilds in Chesney, and devoted at least a few paragraphs to the Véinsørmoot. If Koli's spies are truly so thick as to not even listen to the news-criers in Paisly, or pay attention to the fact that D'Hara is obviously in a strong alliance with Barca and Terran, or hasn't paid any attention to the unity of Barca, Terran, or D'Hara on foreign policy (like the Madinan Civil War, for example) in the past then, truly, Lurian spies are not very good. For so intrigue-ridden a place, I would have expected better.

Nothing about the Véinsørmoot is secret, and the treaties are all publicly viewable on the wiki. As a fairly big document governing a fairly large part of Dwilight, I'd expect some of Koli's advisors and policy wonks to have noticed it.

[Indirik]

This surprises me. The Véinsørmoot is on the wiki...

IG/IC, I think my character, the ruler of Astrum, may have heard of it once or twice. But I really don't think he has any idea what it is, or what it stands for, or any idea of its political importance in the south. He's never been contacted by the Veinsormoot, or had any dealings with anyone on behalf of the Veinsormoot.

OOC I know what the Veinsormoot is, and it's public purpose. But IG, I don't think it's really had the penetration that you think it has.

[Anaris]

IG/IC, I think my character, the ruler of Astrum, may have heard of it once or twice. But I really don't think he has any idea what it is, or what it stands for, or any idea of its political importance in the south. He's never been contacted by the Veinsormoot, or had any dealings with anyone on behalf of the Veinsormoot.

OOC I know what the Veinsormoot is, and it's public purpose. But IG, I don't think it's really had the penetration that you think it has.

Indeed. Alanna has heard of it, and knows generally that it's a guild somewhere in the west.  She probably even knows that it was Hireshmont who mentioned it.  But she has, first of all, no reason to think that it would be the body to contact to negotiate anything with the west—and second of all, no way of contacting it if she did!  It's a guild, after all, and to contact a guild you have to travel to it.  What ruler is going to trek weeks across the continent just to join a guild they've barely heard of?

[Indirik]

Indeed. Alanna has heard of it, and knows generally that it's a guild somewhere in the west.  She probably even knows that it was Hireshmont who mentioned it.  But she has, first of all, no reason to think that it would be the body to contact to negotiate anything with the west...

Brance has been in contact with the rulers of both D'Hara and Terran. Neither have mentioned the Veinsormoot in their talks on politics.

I think that if the Veinsormoot wants to make a political splash, they should engage in some self-promotion at the ruler level. But still, the Veinsormoot is still a guild. As Anaris points out, that makes it very difficult to contact or negotiate with. SA has the same problems. But then again, the religious leadership of SA doesn't generally get involved with politics. They make requests of the secular leaders, who then take care of it. As I've mentioned before (in this thread, I think?) you don't make treaties with SA. You make treaties with the secular leaders of the member theocracies.

[Telrunya]

Really, Hireshmont should have just contacted the Lurians on behalf of the Veinsermoot. That would have pulled it off

[Anaris]

Really, Hireshmont should have just contacted the Lurians on behalf of the Veinsermoot. That would have pulled it off

I think that's more or less what I've been trying to get across

[Vellos]

Really, Hireshmont should have just contacted the Lurians on behalf of the Veinsermoot. That would have pulled it off

God damnit.

If you want something done right, you've just got to do it yourself....

[Adriddae]

I think the Veinsermoot should have its own thread.

And by the way, even though I'm in Asylon, I've never heard of it...

[Vellos]

And by the way, even though I'm in Asylon, I've never heard of it...

Gah!

I've been to Asylon to publicize it twice!

This is very frustrating... well, after I step down as Senator of Chesney, I know what my next goal will be: publicize the Véinsørmoot.

[Lorgan]

The Veinsormoot is also not that easy to find on the wiki, considering that I - and I think most people - don't have that Scandinavian "o" on their keyboard and when you search in normal letters (not saying Scandinavians aren't normal ) it doesn't find anything.

[Indirik]

I've been to Asylon to publicize it twice!

This is very frustrating... well, after I step down as Senator of Chesney, I know what my next goal will be: publicize the Véinsørmoot.

Maybe you're publicizing it to the wrong people? It sounds like what you want to do is get foreigners to negotiate with the guild as a political organization. If so, then you need your member states to push it to foreign leadership. It doesn't really matter if random nobles in some member nation know about the Veinsormoot. You need the leadership of non-member realms to know about it. And that means that your member realms need to defer to the the guild's leadership for negotiating. But that seems... odd. Why would a foreign king want to deal with some random noble from, of all things, a guild when dealing with diplomacy? That seems so pedestrian.

Or perhaps I just don't understand the whole point of the Veinsormoot.

[vanKaya]

Its not that the Veinsormoot wants foreign leaders to deal with it, it's that it is in the best interest of those foreign leaders to deal with the Veinsormoot.

The Veinsormoot is essentially the physical embodiment of the close relations between Barca, Terran and D'hara. And so, even when you are only talking to the D'haran leadership or Barcan leadership what is being said is most likely being relayed to the Veinsormoot where it is discussed communally either by the whole guild (which features prominent desicion makers of all three realms as well as nobles who are curious or want to get involved) or just the elders (the elite leadership of the three realms).

From there the Veinsormoot either reaches a decision on what the next course of action should be, OR, the item is further discussed by each respective senate before being brought back to the Veinsormoot. What foreign realms should understand about the Maroccidens is that formally and informally we are all very close and there's few big decisions, especially foreign policy related ones, that don't pass through the Veinsormoot.

Although, I'm not on the Elders so this is mostly my assumption of what goes on. Who is on the elders by the way?

And yes, I guess the Veinsormoot needs more publicity but I also feel that even when a leader is being told about the guild's function they don't necessarily understand the gravity of it's importance. Even calling it a guild is a little misinformative, it's more like a BM equivalent to NATO.

[egamma]

it's more like a BM equivalent to NATO.

or EU...

And the elders of the 'moot ARE the council members of the respective member states--it's not like Duke Hireshmont of Terran is different than Elder Hireshmont of the 'moot.

[Chenier]

or EU...

And the elders of the 'moot ARE the council members of the respective member states--it's not like Duke Hireshmont of Terran is different than Elder Hireshmont of the 'moot.

Indeed. The member states are generally not really interested in the politics of the foreign realms, except when they come to bother us or affect us. It's a nice tool to communicate with each other and plan collectively.

[vanKaya]

or EU...

And the elders of the 'moot ARE the council members of the respective member states--it's not like Duke Hireshmont of Terran is different than Elder Hireshmont of the 'moot.

Yeah, EU fits much better. I was thinking NATO was a little off but I couldnt come up with something better.

Its actually much like the EU. It has economic, cultural and military provisions and it's only real authority comes from the fact that the member states realize the benefit that comes from being a part of it.

Also, like the EU, while it is not necessary for foreign bodies to contact it, it certainly makes things easier for everyone involved.

While we're on the subject, who are the elders of the 'moot? The Dukes and leaders?