Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)

[Chenier]

Not almost. You did. It's why we never liked Caerwyn. Caerwyn torched Saffalore.

And... yeah... I know Terran has changed a lot since its founding. I've been there the whole time.

That was after I got bored of Dwilight and deleted my character.

I'm not sure if the same motivations pushed for that war or not.

But dude, where you there when Terran was founded? The leader was... quite a show, to say the least. Everguard caliber.

[Vellos]

I arrived a few weeks after.

Ruler was Vesna, right? Yeah. He is kind of Hireshmont's arch-rival. They constantly butt heads. He has paused and unpaused a few times; he just recently unpaused. Hasn't said anything yet though.

[Chenier]

I arrived a few weeks after.

Ruler was Vesna, right? Yeah. He is kind of Hireshmont's arch-rival. They constantly butt heads. He has paused and unpaused a few times; he just recently unpaused. Hasn't said anything yet though.

Yes, Vesna!

Oh damn, I thought he was long gone. As in, *gone* gone.

We may have to declare war on you over this.

[DoctorHarte]

Which is why Terran failed, and Caerwyn succeeded.

errr.... woops!

What Caerwyn didn't realize, and I told them this many times, is that they already had this so-called "freedom" from SA and whatnot. We had that freedom - no SA preaching, Averoth and Thulsoma were gone and the Saxons had abandoned us pretty much. It was such a pointless war and if Duke Amandil hadn't ruined it all, I might have become the Archon of Caerwyn.

Then I would make peace with SA and declare war on Asylon for taking Lowervia XD

[Indirik]

Then I would make peace with SA...

Speaking as the player of the character with whom you would have had to make peace with: No, you wouldn't have. You would have gotten the same offer that .. whoever it was that I gave to the offer to got. (Can't remember her name...) If you had accepted it, then the people in Caerwyn would probably have revolted against you. If you hadn't accepted it, then Caerwyn probably would have suffered the same starvation that it eventually went through.

But you wouldn't have just easily signed peace with Astrum.

[DoctorHarte]

Speaking as the player of the character with whom you would have had to make peace with: No, you wouldn't have. You would have gotten the same offer that .. whoever it was that I gave to the offer to got. (Can't remember her name...) If you had accepted it, then the people in Caerwyn would probably have revolted against you. If you hadn't accepted it, then Caerwyn probably would have suffered the same starvation that it eventually went through.

But you wouldn't have just easily signed peace with Astrum.

Not easily but it would have been better than our death.

[Indirik]

That is apparently not what the vast majority of Caerwyn thought.

[Chenier]

That is apparently not what the vast majority of Caerwyn thought.

Sometimes, that's not important.

[Indirik]

Sometimes no. But sometimes yes. Like when you're the ruler trying to sell your proposed treaty to the realm. The same realm that said "We'd rather let every peasant in the entire realm die, drain all our family fortunes dry, and send all of our nobles offspring to fight you to the death, than allow your conquest of even a single region be any easier."

[Andrew]

Depends on your interpretation of the legalese.

"In the event of a secession from one of the signing realms, the new realm (or Child Realm) is considered to have the same Legal Claims as their Parent Realm (the realm they seceded from), until such a time as this treaty is rewritten."

Technically, Asylon was formed before this treaty. Since then, Caerwyn has had a secession... two, in fact. Via to Asylon and Itaulond. Presumably the duchy of Via would have claim to its own regions (which accompanied it) and the duchy of Itau would be the legal successor to its own regions (which accompanied it). Caerwyn could turn over legal claims to Asylon, if Caerwyn still existed. But, in its demise, to my knowledge, it never formally transfered legal claims.

Thus, while this treaty does not establish a clear definition of what to do with claims in the event of a realm's destruction, it does establish a few principles which I shall refer to as "Nonexpansion," "Entity, and "Heritability."

Nonexpansion- Even in the event of secessions and region revolts, claims do not change. The treaty is evidently framed to prevent "claim creep" wherein one realm gradually secures more and more claims. It is an inflexible claim regime.

Heritability- Claims are passed down to succeeding constituent entities. Caerwyn's claims would be assumed by successor states, meaning the Duchy of Via but, probably more properly, Itaulond. Itaulond probably has the strongest claim to Caerwyn's share of the treaty.

Entity- Claims can evidently be traded and exchanged, meaning they are not to be regarded as inalienable.

Under nonexpansion, Asylon would clearly have an issue: they are clearly engaging in "claim creep," presuming to claim even lands directly under Terran's influence which they can never hope to control. Under heritability, Asylon never formally become Caerwyn's heir. But, the best they can reasonably hope for is that they can claim the Duchy of Via legally, while Itaulond gets the Duchy of Itau, and other regions become "free lands." This is the strongest argument for Asylon's claims. A different interpretation of the treaty would suggest that Itau maintains claims to all lands Caerwyn ever claimed, as it is the only "Child Realm," and Via's allegiance change could threaten Nonexpansion. Under Entity, we could regard claims as being "fiat assets," whereby the destruction of their holding entity (namely, Caerwyn) would destroy the asset as well, so that all of Caerwyn's lands, even in the Duchy of Via and Itaulond, would technically be "free lands" under the treaty, though obviously not under any practical assessment.

This post alone has completely validated all the time I put into writing that treaty. Thank you.

Almost makes me want to write another treaty... almost.

[Vellos]

This post alone has completely validated all the time I put into writing that treaty. Thank you.

Almost makes me want to write another treaty... almost.

Isn't it a great feeling? I love whenever game documents I wrote get cited by others. Gives me little tingly feelings.