Some things to know and discuss

[Indirik]

A "banishing" spell could be a "cancellation" spell, as your intent is to cancel the effects of the other wizard's magic.

[Tom]

A "banishing" spell could be a "cancellation" spell, as your intent is to cancel the effects of the other wizard's magic.

Well, right now I don't plan on having actual anti-magic...

[Bedwyr]

Well, right now I don't plan on having actual anti-magic...

Don't need it if you have a spell with a counter-base, counter-intent...Say, a Water Wall, Protect/Water spell vs Fireball's Harm/Fire.  That seems to be the best way to handle countering.

So, for a "banishment" spell, instead of "bring here, translocation" you have "send away, translocation".

[Indirik]

A "Send" would be interesting. That could a counter-base to a summons. It doesn't need "anti-magic", in the sense that water is "anti-fire". All it needs is a spell that sends something to somewhere else.

[Zane]

Couldn't "move" be used as a base for both summoning and banishing?  Move it here, move it away.

[Morningstar]

Alternately, if no attempt at control is made (like the troll in the gatehouse scenario), perhaps the summoned creature seeks out the summoner for revenge or a ticket back home.

Parameters would need to be established to prevent an opposing player from simply picking up the story, (as the summoned-but-not-controlled creature is now an NPC), and playing it off as a free attack on the summoner. I certainly would. You summon an uncontrolled fiend, my turn comes around and I establish that the fiesty fiend, Rho Zyo Dun'l, is pissed at being whisked away from rummaging around in someone's larder, and looking to take it out on you.

Uncontrolled summons would have to be controlled by a neutral third-party GM, or separating the summon/control would never work in a game designed like this.

[Bedwyr]

Parameters would need to be established to prevent an opposing player from simply picking up the story, (as the summoned-but-not-controlled creature is now an NPC), and playing it off as a free attack on the summoner. I certainly would. You summon an uncontrolled fiend, my turn comes around and I establish that the fiesty fiend, Rho Zyo Dun'l, is pissed at being whisked away from rummaging around in someone's larder, and looking to take it out on you.

Uncontrolled summons would have to be controlled by a neutral third-party GM, or separating the summon/control would never work in a game designed like this.

Nah, I think it should be assumed that any creature summoned will be hostile to the summoner unless otherwise controlled.  That's pretty standard for any system or mythos, after all, and for good reason.

[Anaris]

Nah, I think it should be assumed that any creature summoned will be hostile to the summoner unless otherwise controlled.  That's pretty standard for any system or mythos, after all, and for good reason.

I dunno; I would agree for things like fiends, efreets, and elementals, but not a troll, or even moreso, a starving crocodile, from the wilds nearby.

A magical being summoned from another plane is likely to be able to detect the magics used to summon it and discern their source.  A mundane creature summoned from within this plane—especially a nonsentient one—is much more likely to just be confused and attack everything around it.

[Iltaran]

I dont think hard and fast rules are really necessary.  RPing "The Demon turns around and eats its summoner" should get you a talking to by the Admins just as much as "The Mage's igor-esque servant stabs him in the back during the final moment's of the Ritual to achieve Immortality"

[loren]

Ben MacDonald's character Dethargos summoned a demon-god "The Fallen" in the original SM.

Fair to say that was an interesting story line. *chuckles*

[Tom]

Ben MacDonald's character Dethargos summoned a demon-god "The Fallen" in the original SM.

Fair to say that was an interesting story line. *chuckles*

Yeah. :-)


I think it is important to point out that the whole game-mechanics are mostly for casting spells. Both rituals and spontaneous magic are far less restrictive and you (or, for spontaneous magic, lady luck) can do pretty much whatever you want there.

[Meneldur]

With regards to demons/extra-planar summonings would there be an already created mythos to draw upon or would there simply be an infinite amount of heavens and hells full of creatures waiting to be discovered/GM-approved for summoning?

[Tom]

Like much of the game, these things will be discovered (aka: made up on the spot) as the game progresses.

[Phellan]

We also need to keep in mind that there are certain types of summons - I've put in a few spells for homunculi, which are effectively giving *life* to inanimate objects.   They are closely related to Golems similiar forms of creatures that are "created" by mages but are most certainly not natural.     Which brings in the "undead" and "unlife" category vs created life.

Those tend not to need binding spells or protection spells to deal with them as they are bound to the caster - not creatures pulled from somewhere else.

Though I do admire the "drop an angry elemental into the mass of troops" summon - especially if you have the foresight to enact a protective warding before hand    

Or the always near fatal "Open a portal to another plane of existence. . . by accident."

[Tom]

I've added a new page:

http://lemuria.org/SM3/welcome/notes

that you should read. It clears up the "duration" thing and makes some things about intents such as change or heal clearer.