New Estate System

[Keithson]

what happens if a duchy does not have a city/town any more? let's say a duke+lord+knight of a city in a duchy of 1 city + 1 rural gives up title of lord of city and the new lord flips to different duchy of same realm.
the duke becomes duke of 1 rural region, lord of nothing and knight of nothing?

I believe Tom mentioned that Duchies can be dissolved:

"Duchies are their own entities now, meaning the duke does not have to be the lord of the duchy capital. In fact, there is no such thing as a duchy capital. The duke does not even have to be a lord. In addition, duchies can be created and dissolved, with some limitations. " From the New Estate System page

If Rulers can create Duchies, it would (hopefully) follow that they can dissolve them as well.

[fodder]

but if the ruler doesn't dissolve them? do they dissolve themselves when it's just a rural region? if not what's to stop every single region becoming a 1 region duchy (after a lot of tinkering)? presumably they can't secede unless it's a city because you can't recruit otherwise? (or is recruitment linked to capital region, rather than any city?) or there'll be lots of 1 region realms?


duchies can have multiple cities?

[Draco Tanos]

Which doesn't actually answer the question.  You're implying the ruler would *want* to remove the title from the (theoretically) loyal Duke in that circumstance.  What if the ruler doesn't want to?

Would game mechanics allow it?  Would the ruler be able to make another Duke through that townsland/city/stronghold?

If the duchy dissolves because the townsland/city/stronghold leaves it, then there IS a ducal capital, at least in effect.

[GoldPanda]

Question/concern: It seems to me that there are two ways for a lord to control the income of his knights. He can either tweak their estate sizes or adjust their tax rate. Why is the latter still needed? If I want my knights to receive more/less gold, why can't I just increase/decrease their estate sizes? Why go through the extra step of making my knights pay taxes, when I, as lord, pretty much decides what share they get anyway? Is there actually an interesting trade-off between adjusting the estate sizes and changing the regional tax rates?

It seems to me that the regional level tax is just a needless complication, and another feature that needs to be maintained by the devs, and might break (or become buggy) later.

[GoldPanda]

Another question: What about us Judges/Generals/Bankers? Can we still be regular knights? Do we still get some of that sweet, sweet bonus money for being in a government position?

[fodder]

Question/concern: It seems to me that there are two ways for a lord to control the income of his knights. He can either tweak their estate sizes or adjust their tax rate. Why is the latter still needed? If I want my knights to receive more/less gold, why can't I just increase/decrease their estate sizes? Why go through the extra step of making my knights pay taxes, when I, as lord, pretty much decides what share they get anyway? Is there actually an interesting trade-off between adjusting the estate sizes and changing the regional tax rates?

It seems to me that the regional level tax is just a needless complication, and another feature that needs to be maintained by the devs, and might break (or become buggy) later.

something to do with size of lord's estate. ie.. it'll presumably be best to give away majority of region to knight.. yet if the lord is to get majority of tax income without having majority of region under his own estate, then he has to tax the knights.

[Tom]

Question/concern: It seems to me that there are two ways for a lord to control the income of his knights. He can either tweak their estate sizes or adjust their tax rate. Why is the latter still needed? If I want my knights to receive more/less gold, why can't I just increase/decrease their estate sizes? Why go through the extra step of making my knights pay taxes, when I, as lord, pretty much decides what share they get anyway? Is there actually an interesting trade-off between adjusting the estate sizes and changing the regional tax rates?

The Tax Rate is how much taxes the peasants pay. Adjusting it, you can raise or lower the total gold your region produces, at the risk of making the peasants unhappy.

The Lords Share is how much of the tax collected the knights have to pass on to you. The peasants don't care who takes their gold, and changing this value doesn't change how much gold is collected in the region, only who gets to keep it.

[vonGenf]

Is there still an overall production stat to region? Are all estate revenues normalized by the overall production percentage?

[fodder]

what happens when the last region leave a duchy? what happens when the last duchy leave realm?

TO allegiance - need to factor in RTO that happens away from the realm

[vonGenf]

Also, how does food fit in this system? Do wild lands also produce 50% food?

[Stue (DC)]

There is currently no "Hide your income" function. But if you don't want to pay realm share, then just make sure there is no Duchy Share. Since the realm share comes out of the Duke's incomes, then make sure the Duke's income is 0.
For now, I think it is dumped into the general region tax pool.

Are you certain about this?

From what I could understand from Wiki, taxation applies to all incomes of lords/dukes, not only from their share, which makes much sense, otherwise all would be easily obstructed in the way you describe (the way it is currently on).

[Peri]

Also, how does food fit in this system? Do wild lands also produce 50% food?

Food depends only on how high production is. Estates and knights have nothing to do with it.

(that was answered in q&a session, I hope I'm not wrong)

[Telrunya]

what happens if a duchy does not have a city/town any more? let's say a duke+lord+knight of a city in a duchy of 1 city + 1 rural gives up title of lord of city and the new lord flips to different duchy of same realm.
the duke becomes duke of 1 rural region, lord of nothing and knight of nothing?

I'm not sure if you can create a new Duchy out of a Duchy with only one Townsland/City/Stronghold. However if for example such a region is taken by a TO or switches allegiances, the Duchy would just exist with one rural region or no regions at all (He cannot secede now). If the Duchy has no regions, the Ruler can dissolve it, but it doesn't dissolve automatically. If you want to keep a landless Duke around as a Court Pet (I believe that's how Tom called it ), you are free to do so.

Food depends only on how high production is. Estates and knights have nothing to do with it.

(that was answered in q&a session, I hope I'm not wrong)

Yeah, Estates is solely for Tax Collection. The rest is removed, for now.

[GoldPanda]

The Tax Rate is how much taxes the peasants pay. Adjusting it, you can raise or lower the total gold your region produces, at the risk of making the peasants unhappy.

The Lords Share is how much of the tax collected the knights have to pass on to you. The peasants don't care who takes their gold, and changing this value doesn't change how much gold is collected in the region, only who gets to keep it.

Suppose that I am a knight. Is my income different if I have a 25% estate with no lord's share, rather than a 50% estate with a 50% lord's share? Does it affect the income of my liege?

In other words, if I'm a lord, and I want this vassal of mine to have 25% of my region's total tax income, does it matter whether I give him a 25% estate and set the lord's share to 0, or give him a 50% estate and set the lord's share to 50%?

[Peri]

Suppose that I am a knight. Is my income different if I have a 25% estate with no lord's share, rather than a 50% estate with a 50% lord's share? Does it affect the income of my liege?

In other words, if I'm a lord, and I want this vassal of mine to have 25% of my region's total tax income, does it matter whether I give him a 25% estate and set the lord's share to 0, or give him a 50% estate and set the lord's share to 50%?

Lord's share applies also to all the other estates, so I guess you need to keep in consideration that as well.