Spells categories feedback

[Tom]

With a bit of experience now, I'd like to collect some feedback on the strength of spells, i.e. Effect, Target, Duration values. What do you think?


I'll lead with a thought of my own - it seems to be too easy to hurt people seriously. Maybe instant death should be moved to 5, while 4 turns into mortally wounded, or something?

[Nathan]

I'll lead with a thought of my own - it seems to be too easy to hurt people seriously. Maybe instant death should be moved to 5, while 4 turns into mortally wounded, or something?

Agreed, I was just thinking that as I read about Dynamis accidentally killing Astalos. A Power Level 12 spell with the ability to instantly kill someone? That's much too easy.

Perhaps you could spread out power levels a bit, so instead of 1-5 we have 1-10 and have more subtle changes between the levels? Then keep everything else the same. So progression will be slower, but actually more meaningful in the effects that your character can do.

That would certainly solve the other issue I have of durations: they're too rigid. I wanted to make a spell that lasted about 6 hours but I only had the option of 1 hour or 1 day. I had to go for a day but it just felt wrong.

[Tom]

Agreed, I was just thinking that as I read about Dynamis accidentally killing Astalos. A Power Level 12 spell with the ability to instantly kill someone? That's much too easy.

Perhaps you could spread out power levels a bit, so instead of 1-5 we have 1-10 and have more subtle changes between the levels? Then keep everything else the same. So progression will be slower, but actually more meaningful in the effects that your character can do.

That would certainly solve the other issue I have of durations: they're too rigid. I wanted to make a spell that lasted about 6 hours but I only had the option of 1 hour or 1 day. I had to go for a day but it just felt wrong.

I don't want to change the categories as that would also require changing the math - and PL being a ^3 curve, that would mean most effects are out of reach for a very long time.

I don't see the duration category as rigid at all. Consider it brackets. You went right picking "1 day" for a 6 hour effect. Remember that a longer duration is not always better. Basically, the categories are just there for the math part. Nothing stops you from making a spell with a target of exactly 3 humans, either, picking the "group" category.


And yes, the accidental killing is something... well... let's just say one thing we all learn is that pretty much every magician who wants to live will constantly have a few protection spells on him. Since magic can not be detected, that's perfectly fine and not a giveaway. Note that there is no deterioration in spells anymore (I removed the "interaction" part from the rules), so a protection spell once cast is good against many attacks, which should counter the problem of having to constantly waste a lot of energy on refreshing protections.


On interactions, I think a new rule is asked for: We have two basic categories of bases - physical and non-physical. Each should be able to defend against attacks from the same category within reason.


And we have a problem with energy/concentration regeneration. Astalos probably exhausted himself there, but thanks to the whole roleplaying taking a lot longer than the action, he had regenerated some when it was his turn again. Or players could simply wait with posting their next roleplay until they have regenerated enough.
Maybe we need a game mechanic of characters entering an "action scene", which halts regneration, storing everything that would have regenerated and when the character exits the action scene, he gets it all at once (so nothing is lost, but people don't regenerate in game-time seconds what should've taken hours or days) ?

[Anaris]

And we have a problem with energy/concentration regeneration. Astalos probably exhausted himself there, but thanks to the whole roleplaying taking a lot longer than the action, he had regenerated some when it was his turn again. Or players could simply wait with posting their next roleplay until they have regenerated enough.
Maybe we need a game mechanic of characters entering an "action scene", which halts regneration, storing everything that would have regenerated and when the character exits the action scene, he gets it all at once (so nothing is lost, but people don't regenerate in game-time seconds what should've taken hours or days) ?

I was just thinking about that problem earlier, and I think that's an excellent solution to it.

So will there be a button or something we hit to indicate that our character has entered or left an "action scene"?

Also, a practical consideration for discussion: assuming he hadn't subsequently gotten killed, would getting knocked out have removed Astalos from the action scene, thus allowing him to start regenerating as soon as he was unconscious? Or would he have to wait until his body was removed from the scene?

[loren]

Agreed, I was just thinking that as I read about Dynamis accidentally killing Astalos. A Power Level 12 spell with the ability to instantly kill someone? That's much too easy.

It wasn't too much of an accident.  =D  Dynamis had no way of knowing that the spellcaster had no protection.

[loren]

I'll lead with a thought of my own - it seems to be too easy to hurt people seriously. Maybe instant death should be moved to 5, while 4 turns into mortally wounded, or something?

Agreed, Dynamis could've wiped them all out without breaking a sweat.  The two Earthen Spikes and Cantrip only cost 10 mana because of how expensive it was with such a low earth skill and water.  If I'd used fire or air it would've been 8 mana to kill the four templars and the inquisitor.  He still has enough mana to kill another 20 people in the crowd.

[Bedwyr]

I think Mortally Wounded sounds good at 4.

And I'd thought of the protection spell thing on my first read-through of the game, was hoping no one else would notice...

>.>

<.<

What about having your energy reserves provide some innate defense as well?  If I get hit by a power level 12 spell, and have 12 energy hanging around, I can burn that energy to negate the effect of the spell on me?  Incredibly expensive defense mechanism, so everyone would much rather use protection spells, but still.

Also, the "action time" thing makes sense to me.

[loren]

And we have a problem with energy/concentration regeneration. Astalos probably exhausted himself there, but thanks to the whole roleplaying taking a lot longer than the action, he had regenerated some when it was his turn again. Or players could simply wait with posting their next roleplay until they have regenerated enough.
Maybe we need a game mechanic of characters entering an "action scene", which halts regneration, storing everything that would have regenerated and when the character exits the action scene, he gets it all at once (so nothing is lost, but people don't regenerate in game-time seconds what should've taken hours or days) ?

I'm not opposed to this idea, it would also be relatively easy to just have people post their actual concentration/mana used and self police, but a delay would work as easily, ultimately I think a certamen is really the only place where we need a hard stop.  Everyone else in a scene will actively be collecting power as well.  I fully expect that concentration will ultimately be the limiting factor for most casters.  Hence I myself dumped a lot into two intents and spread the rest out among the bases.

[Anaris]

I'm not opposed to this idea, it would also be relatively easy to just have people post their actual concentration/mana used and self police, but a delay would work as easily, ultimately I think a certamen is really the only place where we need a hard stop.  Everyone else in a scene will actively be collecting power as well.  I fully expect that concentration will ultimately be the limiting factor for most casters.  Hence I myself dumped a lot into two intents and spread the rest out among the bases.

Personally, I'd have a hard time keeping track of what I'm supposed to have.

And a hard time limiting myself to it.

[Tom]

What about having your energy reserves provide some innate defense as well?  If I get hit by a power level 12 spell, and have 12 energy hanging around, I can burn that energy to negate the effect of the spell on me?  Incredibly expensive defense mechanism, so everyone would much rather use protection spells, but still.

I'm not a fan of any kind of "inate" or automatic stuff. I'd much prefer magic to be dangerous and have people actively think about defenses.

[Zakilevo]

Well most of my protection spells were either physical protection (fire, water, air, earth) or non physical (death,body,mind).

For energy/concentration, I like the idea of having a button for 'entering combat'. But then, people can leave to regenerate.

About the spells, I see that our current system for duration is instant - seconds/ a minute - an hour - a day - over a day. I have no problem with that really. But for the other two, I think we need to adjust them.

If I have 5/5/1 spell, I can use them by level 25. With a spell like that, I can instantly turn an entire village into ashes. This is insane. Maybe for each level of effect and target there should be a restriction. Or we can add a feature I guess.

For the putting a restriction method, we can limit each level of categories with something like the total sum of the powerlevel for your skill must reach a certain point to be able to use level 4 or 5 effect and target? For level three =25 total powerlevel, level four = 50, level five =75?

Or we can add a feature to limit each caster's capability. For every 5 or 10 levels of total powerlevel you reach, you gain a point to put either to increase your target level or effect level?

[Tom]

If I have 5/5/1 spell, I can use them by level 25. With a spell like that, I can instantly turn an entire village into ashes. This is insane.

No, it's really cool. SpellMaster has always been a game where the characters wield insane amounts of power. There's a reason they once ruled the world. And PL 25 isn't all that easy to reach - if you focus entirely on, say Harm/Fire, you will be very, very vulnerable. Your enemies will exploit that vulnerability and you will die.

All I want is to make sure that character deaths aren't commonplace.

[Zakilevo]

a good point. lol now that I think about it my character died like that. no protection spells. I didn't have that many mind spells either and I put all my points into mind. I don't know why I did that.

p.s: I need my protection spells to be accepted!

[Morningstar]

Quick poll/ruling- Counterspelling or diverting/modifying a spell cast by someone else I'm assuming would fall under "Change" but what about the base? Would it always need to match the base of the original spell?

[Nathan]

Quick poll/ruling- Counterspelling or diverting/modifying a spell cast by someone else I'm assuming would fall under "Change" but what about the base? Would it always need to match the base of the original spell?

I think Tom said that something like this would need a base of "Magic" and that isn't going to happen.