Author Topic: Spells categories feedback  (Read 12851 times)

Morningstar

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #15: September 28, 2011, 05:46:55 PM »
I think Tom said that something like this would need a base of "Magic" and that isn't going to happen.

I vaguely recall this, but can't find the exact post on the subject. To clarify, the thought was that if someone cast a Fireball, in theory, someone with Change Fire should be able to modify the spell to become Fireflies before it hits. But like I said, I'm assuming you'd have to create a new modification spell for each and every base. There wouldn't be a catch-all (I think that's where a base "Magic" would come in).

Tom

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #16: September 28, 2011, 05:59:54 PM »
I vaguely recall this, but can't find the exact post on the subject. To clarify, the thought was that if someone cast a Fireball, in theory, someone with Change Fire should be able to modify the spell to become Fireflies before it hits. But like I said, I'm assuming you'd have to create a new modification spell for each and every base. There wouldn't be a catch-all (I think that's where a base "Magic" would come in).

No, not really. A Fireball has an Instant duration, but cast times (which we've ignored so far) are generally larger than Instant. Casting your counter would take longer than it takes for the Fireball to hit.

There's no rule there yet, because that's going to be part of the Magic Duel rules, but basically, casting isn't instant, and you can't just throw 3, 4, 5 spells at someone without them being able to also cast something in your general direction.

loren

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #17: September 28, 2011, 07:44:29 PM »
A good example of what Tom is talking about is his and my duels.  The timing is a bit funny, but you can see that our characters react to eachother's spells.  Though my fellow is tricksy and hides his casting with his book, or has made other such means as talking lowly in a large crowd.

Zakilevo

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #18: September 28, 2011, 08:13:30 PM »
Well I couldn't do much with spells I have. They are mostly nothing to do with my skills  :P. GMs probably have lists of good low level spells. Over half of my spells cannot be casted at the moment. Maybe GMs should accept low level spells over high level spells for now?

Tom

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #19: September 28, 2011, 08:29:44 PM »
Or maybe you guys could start doing what you're supposed to do - trade?

Getting new spells really is a major part of the game. I agree we have too many spells on the not-yet-accepted list, but since we're discussing a couple changes currently, it's understandable that we don't want to do them twice.

I feel like we're getting pretty close, and then there's going to be a fresh start. When it launches for real, remember that you absolutely want to get a good spell collection, and trading spells with others is one way to do that.

Also, I think we should start people out with more than 5 spells. Maybe 10.

Bedwyr

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #20: September 28, 2011, 08:31:35 PM »
That's the problem I was having as well.  None of my Control spells have gone through yet, which severely limits the ability of my guy to do anything because Spontaneous castings are 1. so random in effect and 2. considerably lower in power than spells you can cast unless you're willing to accept a lot of shifts.

And yeah, trading works when you have compatible skills (because I'm pretty sure most of us have been designing spells to fit our skills, or skills to fit our spells, I suppose), but none of those Harm Body spells getting tossed around do my mind-control character any good  :)
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Indirik

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #21: September 28, 2011, 08:38:11 PM »
Based on reading the test thread, I'd say that any magician who depends on spontaneous magic to do anything useful is a moron.

I've been trying to follow the test thread, but there's still so much of it that I just can't understand. I feel it's stuff that we should understand, too. Like the mechanics of storing power in items. Or loren's cryptic comment about using a book to mask the fact that he was the one casting spells. Maybe I just need to sit down and re-read the rules again, because stuff like that just totally confuses me.
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Nathan

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #22: September 28, 2011, 08:53:07 PM »
Spontaneous castings are 1. so random in effect and 2. considerably lower in power than spells you can cast unless you're willing to accept a lot of shifts.

If you up your skill level in what you want to spontaneously cast, you should be fairly safe. You can also work it out so that even with shifts, you can pretty much get what you want done. Just a few checks with mine and I get this:

spontaneous magic (Harm/Death - 5-2-1) (2 shifts)
spontaneous magic (Harm/Death - 3-2-2) (2 shifts)

So with just a bit of overcasting and some creative descriptions about what you want to happen, you should be able to kinda get what you want. So if I wanted to seriously wound my opponent I might go for the first one instead so that the worst that can happen is that effect is brought down to a 3. Best that can happen is my opponent has a very seriously wounded hand that is gradually wounded over an hour.

Of course you'd have to describe what your character wants very well so that the person picking it up has something to work with. Plus you have to hope they listen to your character's intentions at least a little bit. But using only spontaneous spells is entirely possible.

Bedwyr

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #23: September 28, 2011, 09:00:09 PM »
Only if they decide to listen to you, which they explicitly don't have to.  And it's especially bad for stuff like control or change, because it could easily turn from "mind control all those soldiers to not attack me" to "mind control the captain of the soldiers to say that I murdered his sister".
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Morningstar

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #24: September 29, 2011, 02:39:28 AM »
Only if they decide to listen to you, which they explicitly don't have to.  And it's especially bad for stuff like control or change, because it could easily turn from "mind control all those soldiers to not attack me" to "mind control the captain of the soldiers to say that I murdered his sister".

Right. Given proper parameters, it would be feasible (and possibly quite cool) to play a caster that routinely casts spontaneously. But given that the results are left to the other players (some who might even be directly/indirectly involved in the same scene), and given that the majority of us are inclined to get a hearty guffaw out of the comical misadventures of others (hello, OT?), I'm inclined to avoid it for the most part.

So far, I'm treating it like the "ooh, let's see what this button does" feature but wouldn't rely on it for anything important.

De-Legro

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #25: September 29, 2011, 02:48:49 AM »
Right. Given proper parameters, it would be feasible (and possibly quite cool) to play a caster that routinely casts spontaneously. But given that the results are left to the other players (some who might even be directly/indirectly involved in the same scene), and given that the majority of us are inclined to get a hearty guffaw out of the comical misadventures of others (hello, OT?), I'm inclined to avoid it for the most part.

So far, I'm treating it like the "ooh, let's see what this button does" feature but wouldn't rely on it for anything important.

I plan to do just this, my character is intentially restricted to not having any spells. However the skill distribution I picked means spontaneous is a bit of a gamble right now, guess Rituals will be his thing until he has more experiance
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Zane

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #26: September 29, 2011, 02:57:17 AM »
(hello, OT?)

Curses!  you've discovered my nefarious plan! ;-)

Seriously, though.  I was considering playing a Three Stooges-type fool who does everything spontaneously, but I think he'd be too deadly to himself and everyone around him.

Zakilevo

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #27: September 29, 2011, 03:50:48 AM »
Maybe the writer should be able to choose half of the shifts?

Like if it has 4 shifts the caster can choose 2 and the other person can choose remaining 2?

For three, let the caster choose 1 and 2 for the other person?

Tom

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #28: September 29, 2011, 08:16:18 AM »
I might make a rule that spontaneous magic is the only kind that is quick enough to be used as reactive, i.e. after the other guy has cast a spell in your direction. Also, that unless shifts are involved, it will mostly do what you wanted it to, at least it can't do something entirely different (as with the captain example).


loren

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Re: Spells categories feedback
« Reply #29: September 29, 2011, 05:29:21 PM »
Well I couldn't do much with spells I have. They are mostly nothing to do with my skills  :P. GMs probably have lists of good low level spells. Over half of my spells cannot be casted at the moment. Maybe GMs should accept low level spells over high level spells for now?

Everything my character did could've been done with four/five spells (Earthen Shield, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning, Air Shield, Breath of Air) .  I just wanted to play around with less than optimal skills to see how it ate away at mana, and the one RP w/ Unhand Me was a GM sort of thing that Tom over-ruled.  But yes we have access to all the spells.  We could trade...