What realm should I join?

[DoctorHarte]

He didn't contradict himself actually, his "scenario" about Enwiels actions just highlighted how easy it is to make assumptions about how effective an enemy may have been at something in theory, when you have incomplete information about their intent and exactly how the lack of an option informed their decisions.

Exactly, it's an assumption. We'll see how effective our scheme works in the future, then we'll see what fodder is saying.

And it was a scenario about IVF's actions in Riombara. Only 2 Enweil troops followed us there.

[Chenier]

Exactly, it's an assumption. We'll see how effective our scheme works in the future, then we'll see what fodder is saying.

And it was a scenario about IVF's actions in Riombara. Only 2 Enweil troops followed us there.

And more might have joined had looting not been bugged. Our battered army was still stronger than Rio's present mobile. And from what I've seen, you have very little militia. We could have sieged Rines with decent odds of success had we went together and wanted to.

[fodder]

eh.. you had what.. 3k cs max? the mobile was far greater than that.

do you really think rio won't have rushed more once the looting has started?

there's a lot of wishful thinking going around.

[De-Legro]

eh.. you had what.. 3k cs max? the mobile was far greater than that.

do you really think rio won't have rushed more once the looting has started?

there's a lot of wishful thinking going around.

Good old Theory craft, everyone looks better if you just create your own winning scenario.

[Chenier]

eh.. you had what.. 3k cs max? the mobile was far greater than that.

do you really think rio won't have rushed more once the looting has started?

there's a lot of wishful thinking going around.

No, we had more than 3k. Especially if you consider that once the wounded heal, CS tends to significantly increase on its own following a defeat. Your mobile army was a day behind. Looting as we passed through region while staying ahead of your main army would have been completely plausible. It could have rushed all it wanted, you can't move more than 1 region per turn.

[fodder]

Good old Theory craft, everyone looks better if you just create your own winning scenario.

... isn't that basically what chenier was doing? fact is, the defeated army was out cs'ed and outmanned. they could have looted, but they either would spend so little time looting that it wouldn't have made much difference in order to stay ahead, or they spend lots of time to do more damage, but gets caught up earlier. or they could have tried to rush the whole way out of riombara only to get bottled up sooner or later.

sieging rines? yay. walking up against walls to get themselves killed. yup, lots of damage done.


more than 3k cs? was that before counting all the wounded or after?

[Chenier]

... isn't that basically what chenier was doing? fact is, the defeated army was out cs'ed and outmanned. they could have looted, but they either would spend so little time looting that it wouldn't have made much difference in order to stay ahead, or they spend lots of time to do more damage, but gets caught up earlier. or they could have tried to rush the whole way out of riombara only to get bottled up sooner or later.

sieging rines? yay. walking up against walls to get themselves killed. yup, lots of damage done.


more than 3k cs? was that before counting all the wounded or after?

The Fheuv'n troops, alone, has a little more than 2000 CS after rallying. Since Enweil had brought as many, we could have had double had they followed.

And we were only outnumbered if you considered your militia. Your mobile forces present were quite small.

The militia in Athol Margos and Rines is a joke. At least it was when we passed by.

[De-Legro]

... isn't that basically what chenier was doing? fact is, the defeated army was out cs'ed and outmanned. they could have looted, but they either would spend so little time looting that it wouldn't have made much difference in order to stay ahead, or they spend lots of time to do more damage, but gets caught up earlier. or they could have tried to rush the whole way out of riombara only to get bottled up sooner or later.

sieging rines? yay. walking up against walls to get themselves killed. yup, lots of damage done.


more than 3k cs? was that before counting all the wounded or after?

Yes Chiener tends to be the King of Theory craft. The forums are littered with his theoretical victories.

[Chenier]

Yes Chiener tends to be the King of Theory craft. The forums are littered with his theoretical victories.

He's "theory crafting" just as much as I am.

[Tan dSerrai]

After the Enweilian-IVF defeat at Fwuvoghor, roughly 3,5k enemy troops made it past the city to Ajitmon/Cjelegy. This does include healing of 2-3 days. Riombara had an effective field army of over 9000 in and before Fwuvoghor. /After/ winning the battle(s). If we would have been worried about the damage the surviving enemy forces could have done I would have rushed our forces past Fwuvoghor and south much sooner. Instead we took time to refit and repair in Fwuvoghor (we had been in the field for near two weeks and had fought several battles) - and to send part of our forces southward via Enweil to block any possibility of escape. Athol and Rines were very much sufficiently defended by militia to be safe.

So if looting would have been not-bugged: Riombara attacks the surviving remnants earlier and looses 1000CS more than the 500 we lost defeating them a bit later - plus we would have lost 100-300 bushels of food. As looting was bugged: We took our time.

Note that Riombara would have profited from non-bugged looting as well. Not through damage done to Enweil (Cheniér is correct that this would not seriously impact Enweil) but in food gained.

I hope this sheds a bit of light on the issue....and maybe it lessens the 'Riombara is favored by bugs, chance and the gods and that is the whole reason they still exist' line in volume a bit....     

[Chenier]

After the Enweilian-IVF defeat at Fwuvoghor, roughly 3,5k enemy troops made it past the city to Ajitmon/Cjelegy. This does include healing of 2-3 days. Riombara had an effective field army of over 9000 in and before Fwuvoghor. /After/ winning the battle(s). If we would have been worried about the damage the surviving enemy forces could have done I would have rushed our forces past Fwuvoghor and south much sooner. Instead we took time to refit and repair in Fwuvoghor (we had been in the field for near two weeks and had fought several battles) - and to send part of our forces southward via Enweil to block any possibility of escape. Athol and Rines were very much sufficiently defended by militia to be safe.

So if looting would have been not-bugged: Riombara attacks the surviving remnants earlier and looses 1000CS more than the 500 we lost defeating them a bit later - plus we would have lost 100-300 bushels of food. As looting was bugged: We took our time.

Note that Riombara would have profited from non-bugged looting as well. Not through damage done to Enweil (Cheniér is correct that this would not seriously impact Enweil) but in food gained.

I hope this sheds a bit of light on the issue....and maybe it lessens the 'Riombara is favored by bugs, chance and the gods and that is the whole reason they still exist' line in volume a bit....     

You still forget that your big army was at least a full day behind.

Regardless, it's a pointless debate.

Enweil whooped your asses on their own. You've rebuilt your army, but now ours is also ready to come and give you a whooping again. 

[Huntsmaster]

You've rebuilt your army, but now ours is also ready to come and give you a whooping again. 

And it's bigger now! 

[Chenier]

And it's bigger now! 

Not as big as Enweil and Fheuv'n's combined! 

[DoctorHarte]

And it's bigger now! 

I've done the calculations and I'm pretty positive Riombara won't be able to pull off a bigger force with their 29 nobles versus Enweil's 31 and our 18. This isn't counting courtiers or priests who stay behind. This is, if Enweil's troops don't go wandering aimlessly around again 

[Chenier]

I've done the calculations and I'm pretty positive Riombara won't be able to pull off a bigger force with their 29 nobles versus Enweil's 31 and our 18. This isn't counting courtiers or priests who stay behind. This is, if Enweil's troops don't go wandering aimlessly around again 

Last scout reports I've had showed rio fielding about 10000 CS post-refit, and Enweil about 8000 CS pre-refit. Once Enweil refits it should field about as much mobile as Rio does. Then Fheuv'n breaks the tie.