Bonus to Religions

[vonGenf]

* Ability of the priest to raise the morale of troops. This should only be unavailable to noble unit commanders of misguided or evil religions, since in the medieval times the characters should be superstitious enough to believe in the blessings from almost any holy man (and simply fear the curses of unholy men).

I would hate to see priests being ordered to follow armies and act as bonus-givers. That's not what the class is for. I wouldn't mind some sort of bonus if troops follow the religion of the troops leaders or some such, but everything which leads in the direction of "a perfect army would be composed of such ratio of priests, such ratios of warriors, such ratio of infils, etc" is bad for the game.

[JPierreD]

I would hate to see priests being ordered to follow armies and act as bonus-givers. That's not what the class is for. I wouldn't mind some sort of bonus if troops follow the religion of the troops leaders or some such, but everything which leads in the direction of "a perfect army would be composed of such ratio of priests, such ratios of warriors, such ratio of infils, etc" is bad for the game.

I don't think the ability to give morale bonus means priests are automatically soldiers, does it? They still cannot be part of an army unless they already were in it before turning priests. It is also quite risky to bring priests into the battlefield, since they are so easy to capture. This would work more like a bonus at home which can trigger interesting RPs between the troop commanders and the priests.

[vonGenf]

I don't think the ability to give morale bonus means priests are automatically soldiers, does it? They still cannot be part of an army unless they already were in it before turning priests.

True; but you should not underestimate the power of the military hierarchy in "active" realms.

The priest game is a good way to get to experience a different game from the frontline-fight-refit-frontline routine. I enjoy that it is uncoupled.

Everything which re-inforces the bonus given when everybody is in the same region at the same time will take us towards big blob of people who all have to move at the same time, which makes the less fun in my opinion.

It is also quite risky to bring priests into the battlefield, since they are so easy to capture. This would work more like a bonus at home which can trigger interesting RPs between the troop commanders and the priests.

True....

[JPierreD]

You do have a point, and I would hate to see the priest game killed, but having such an option would hardly stop me from traveling, RPing, and not following any military orders. Dunno about others, though, I guess it should be taken into account.

Power gamers, the scourge of every game...

[Chenier]

No I disagree. This is exactly what I want. People who don't have a religion for any reason should have the burden of proof. They should be the exceptions.

What we should do is set a medieval status quo through game mechanics. It's fine to be different in some cases, and if you have an explanation for it, it's fine.

It shouldn't be fine to say "religion is for idiots. I'm so much better than you all." And I'm not exaggerating. This sentiment is really quite prevalent.

But I don't see how your suggestion would help with any of that. Rude text will only annoy people, it won't make them go "oh, gee, that's right, I'm an !@#$%^& and should join any random religion, even if I dislike it and it has zero content, because the game says so". I'd rather we work on making religions more appealing.

You do have a point, and I would hate to see the priest game killed, but having such an option would hardly stop me from traveling, RPing, and not following any military orders. Dunno about others, though, I guess it should be taken into account.

Power gamers, the scourge of every game...

If you are ordered to stay at the front, and threatened with fines and bans if you don't? Threatened to be kicked out of the religion if you don't?

I don't think the ability to give morale bonus means priests are automatically soldiers, does it? They still cannot be part of an army unless they already were in it before turning priests. It is also quite risky to bring priests into the battlefield, since they are so easy to capture. This would work more like a bonus at home which can trigger interesting RPs between the troop commanders and the priests.

The ones in charge might not care if they are easy to capture. Being part of an army or not wouldn't stop people from ordering them around if they deem it best for the war effort.

Increasing the odds of capture is something we should avoid. The priest game is already unappealing enough as it is, many religions having failed recently because they lost their last priest, and a great deal of religions limping on the work of a single or last priest.

[JPierreD]

If you are ordered to stay at the front, and threatened with fines and bans if you don't? Threatened to be kicked out of the religion if you don't?

I guess I would have a good case for the magistrates/titans in the first example, and a good reason to leave the religion in the second.
EDIT: Or, in the first example, a good motive to rebel. Fined/baned for not following the orders of an army I am not part of? Come on!

The ones in charge might not care if they are easy to capture. Being part of an army or not wouldn't stop people from ordering them around if they deem it best for the war effort.

Matters little, since priests cannot join armies. They can stay in them if they changed from another class to priest while in the army, but that can be solved pretty easily too.

Increasing the odds of capture is something we should avoid. The priest game is already unappealing enough as it is, many religions having failed recently because they lost their last priest, and a great deal of religions limping on the work of a single or last priest.

Not really sure what you are answering, or where you are going here. Would you mind explaining?

[Chenier]

I guess I would have a good case for the magistrates/titans in the first example, and a good reason to leave the religion in the second.
EDIT: Or, in the first example, a good motive to rebel. Fined/baned for not following the orders of an army I am not part of? Come on!

No it wouldn't. Tell me what rule it breaks?

Matters little, since priests cannot join armies. They can stay in them if they changed from another class to priest while in the army, but that can be solved pretty easily too.

There's "army", and then there's "army". If priests become useful on the battlefield, you won't need them to be technically part of an army by game mechanics for people to start "assigning" them to some or otherwise dictating what they should do.

Not really sure what you are answering, or where you are going here. Would you mind explaining?

Being in prison sucks. If priests are forced to do risky things, then they will end up in prison a lot more. Since they can't be banned and then deported, they'll likely tend to up with the full 7 days in  jail. That means that being a priest will be even more boring than it already is. Because, imo, the whole concept of "RP-heavy" classes is poor, since anyone can do the RP these people are doing without picking up the class.

[JPierreD]

No it wouldn't. Tell me what rule it breaks?

Interesting, then the rebellion, seceding and simply leaving options come into play.

There's "army", and then there's "army". If priests become useful on the battlefield, you won't need them to be technically part of an army by game mechanics for people to start "assigning" them to some or otherwise dictating what they should do.

Maybe it's just the case of biased sample, but nothing like what you describe is the least plausible in any realm I am in. Else we would lose nobles quite fast. And if it did happen, then I guess we'd protest that judge the hell out of there.
Technically it could already happen now since priests can already calm down populations. I don't really see courtiers or any other class fined for poorly performing their skills, anyway.

Being in prison sucks. If priests are forced to do risky things, then they will end up in prison a lot more. Since they can't be banned and then deported, they'll likely tend to up with the full 7 days in  jail. That means that being a priest will be even more boring than it already is. Because, imo, the whole concept of "RP-heavy" classes is poor, since anyone can do the RP these people are doing without picking up the class.

All this considering the very unlikely scenario you described. If you are in such a realm use your priest skills to cause it trouble before leaving, or simply leave. I am quite certain that most realms are not like that. In fact, I would advocate for the destruction of a realm that behaves in such a heretic and disrespectful way towards the holy men.

[Chenier]

Maybe it's just the case of biased sample, but nothing like what you describe is the least plausible in any realm I am in. Else we would lose nobles quite fast. And if it did happen, then I guess we'd protest that judge the hell out of there.
Technically it could already happen now since priests can already calm down populations. I don't really see courtiers or any other class fined for poorly performing their skills, anyway.

All this considering the very unlikely scenario you described. If you are in such a realm use your priest skills to cause it trouble before leaving, or simply leave. I am quite certain that most realms are not like that. In fact, I would advocate for the destruction of a realm that behaves in such a heretic and disrespectful way towards the holy men.

Yet, you are bringing this issue up precisely because people don't take religion seriously.

[JPierreD]

Yet, you are bringing this issue up precisely because people don't take religion seriously.

There is a big difference between having your character turn his nose on religion, and having him act like a tyrant towards priests, or other players in general. What I am trying to solve is a problem of apathy, not of violence, actually.

But, honestly? It would be interesting to see someone trying to pull what you are suggesting. Unless in a very numb realm, the chances of succeeding should be quite low.

[Chenier]

There is a big difference between having your character turn his nose on religion, and having him act like a tyrant towards priests, or other players in general. What I am trying to solve is a problem of apathy, not of violence, actually.

But, honestly? It would be interesting to see someone trying to pull what you are suggesting. Unless in a very numb realm, the chances of succeeding should be quite low.

Outside of Dwilight? Where most religions have absolutely zero autonomy?

Not everyone would do it, certainly, but I don't see it being that unlikely.

[De-Legro]

Outside of Dwilight? Where most religions have absolutely zero autonomy?

Not everyone would do it, certainly, but I don't see it being that unlikely.

FEI has reasonable religious Autonomy. EC, BT and AT seem to have the biggest problems with these concepts.

[JPierreD]

I cannot imagine that happening in Caergoth, Atamara with the Way of the Hammer, nor in Dwilight in every religion I know of.

And if it does happen? Then we oppose it. At least it will bring some conflict of interests between priests and laymen, instead of having the first ones be ignored by the second ones.

[Phellan]

FEI has reasonable religious Autonomy. EC, BT and AT seem to have the biggest problems with these concepts.

FEI *use* to have religions like that.    By my count at least 4 realms were destroyed for hosting particular religions or having their primary religion used as a counter point to destroy them.

FEI became apathetic because of two things - it became VERY hazardous to host just one faith in your Realm, secondly it became very hazardous to push your faith.

This is in the South of course - Up North it's just Sartan/Adghar fighting, and the Aenil haven't reallyed pushed much faith in the last few years.

Down south. . . we kept losing Realms and Religions because of it lol    That's why Zonasa is still around while a lot of more powerful and more aggressive Realms who sponsored religions aren't.    Zonasa is alive soley because it could avoid getting a big ol' finger pointed at it saying, "those guys are our enemy because they worship whomever".   And several faiths survive because Zonasan law won't allow for them to be crushed.