Massive negative trade Balance

[Nosferatus]

I did something really stupid, as i did not know that the gold from automated caravans was taken from trade balance the moment there sent.
I set up these automated caravans, and when the bug was fixed, they all left at once taking a few k gold from the trade balance.
Now we all ended up with negative bonds.

I'd like to plea for two changes:
One, make negative bonds impossible( i geuss thats a bug anyway).
Two, as the gold sent in those caravans are already credit(taken from a trade balance, without any physical gold available, no taxes where collected), why not take it from the trade balance the moment it bought something? else automated caravans to buy stuff would be useless, or atleast for cities who need to buy from multiple regions, they will end up with huge trade balances in the plus one week and the other week with huge negative trade balances.

Also, if any of the two points is agreed upon, could the devs reverse the effects in Madina.
It would be easier than to call ealry taxes a few times(timed when the caravns return with there gold) to try to get into the plus again.
It's not a big deal, but you can imagine the huge impact this has on the game.
The problem would restore it's self but still destroy alot of units and seriously temporarily weaken the realm for a week atleast.

Below, tax report and caravan overview:

Region Tax Report   (7 hours, 14 minutes ago)
The following taxes were collected in Madina. The tax rate for this collection was 20 % and the lords share was 25 %.

Regional income and expensesPeasants Taxes   1954 gold
Trade Balance   -3967 gold
Buildings Upkeep   - 10 gold
Militia Payment   - 13 gold
Collectable Tax Gold   -2036 gold
Estate of   Size   Peasants   Tax Collected   Knight Share   Lord Share
Dene   5 %   1795   -102 gold   -77 gold   -25 gold
Kirino   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Bendix   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Groum   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Henry   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Abbot   5 %   1795   -102 gold      -102 gold
Malificar   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Tarkus   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Laurence   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Beaumains   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Balzk   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Tyrus   9 %   3230   -184 gold   -138 gold   -46 gold
Region Totals         -2044 gold   -1457 gold   -587 gold

Lord and Duke SharesLord Share   -587 gold
Dukes Share   - -587 gold
Lords Tax Income   nothing


(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Bol   Madina
(limit 30 gold)   return journey, carrying 150 gold   Drowenton   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Madina Gardens   Madina
(limit 30 gold)   return journey, carrying 150 gold   Maraba   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Tovabur   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Lawataling   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Laraibina   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Panabuk   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Panafau   Madina
(limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Lugagun   Madina
sell (limit 50 gold)   return journey, carrying 250 gold   Paisly   Madina
buy (limit 40 gold)   outward journey, carrying 200 gold   Bol   Bol
buy (limit 30 gold)   outward journey, carrying 150 gold   Drowenton   Libba
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Madina Gardens   Madina
buy (limit 30 gold)   outward journey, carrying 150 gold   Maraba   Munawai
buy (limit 40 gold)   outward journey, carrying 200 gold   Tovabur   Bol
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Lawataling   Lawataling
buy (limit 40 gold)   outward journey, carrying 200 gold   Laraibina   Laraibina
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Panabuk   Panabuk
buy (limit 40 gold)   outward journey, carrying 200 gold   Panafau   Panafau
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Lugagun   Lugagun
sell (limit 50 gold)   outward journey, carrying 700 bushels food   Paisly   Paisly

Ps i've not checked the number yet(anyone, please feel welcome) if everything is correct, what i did notice is that the tax report says it gave me -500+ bonds, while i really got -135.
So that must be a bug for sure.

PS2, someone posted a bug report here: http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6281
also, there some other small bugs in this report, like the double minus after dukes share and nothing at lords income while it was  less then nothing or a whole lot a debt.

[Zakilevo]

wow. That looks insane. Never even heard about negative bonds.

[Phellan]

I posted it in the Bugs section.

Duchy Totals   -775 gold   0 gold         -312 gold   -34 gold
Duchy Totals   738 gold   0 gold         125 gold   14 gold


The crown has received -20 gold tax income thanks to a realm share of 10 %.
In addition, the realm made 155 gold from other sources (fines, etc.), bringing the crown's total income to 135 gold.


So not only did Madina ring in a massive negative debt - but all the gold collected from the rest of the Duchy of Madina to the Duke's share were put against the negative balance.

Then his share to the Ruler was negative, which removed the gold collected from the other Duchy

Finally removing bonds collected elsewhere as the sum Ruler's share before fines/etc was negative! (how do you even GIVE the ruler negative bones? - wait Abbot.  you want ME to pay for YOU for running Madina?  DAMN CAPITALISM!)

Anyways, obviously a few bugs in here lol.

[Chenier]

And soon, all of your infrastructure should collapse and militia should disband. If you have any, that is.

[Phellan]

And soon, all of your infrastructure should collapse and militia should disband. If you have any, that is.

Thankfully, Madina doesn't.  Since it all broke down while the region was rogue.

[Nosferatus]

Now even more bugs:

Your caravan to Bol has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Drowenton has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Madina Gardens has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Maraba has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Tovabur has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Lawataling has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Laraibina has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Panabuk has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Panafau has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Lugagun has returned home. Error: Invalid caravan type. This should never happen, please report it to the bugtracker.
Your caravan to Paisly has returned home. The trade profit of 250 gold is added to the region's trade balance.
Your caravan to Bol has arrived at its destination. There was no food on sale, so the merchants could make no deal.
Your caravan to Drowenton has reached Libba and is now moving towards Drowenton.
Your caravan to Madina Gardens has returned home. Unfortunately, it could not find any food to buy. 200 gold that are left are sent to you as bonds.
Your caravan to Maraba has reached Munawai and is now moving towards Mangai.
Your caravan to Tovabur has reached Bol and is now moving towards Tovabur.
Your caravan to Lawataling (on its return trip) has left Lawataling and is heading towards Madina Gardens.
Your caravan to Laraibina has arrived at its destination. There was no food on sale, so the merchants could make no deal.
Your caravan to Panabuk (on its return trip) has left Panabuk and is heading towards Madina Gardens.
Your caravan to Panafau has arrived at its destination. There was no food on sale, so the merchants could make no deal.
Your caravan to Lugagun (on its return trip) has left Lugagun and is heading towards Madina Gardens.
Your caravan to Paisly has arrived at its destination. 700 bushels of food were sold for a price of 50 gold.

Apparently the caravans cloned them selves.
Also i didn't got the 200 bonds, i got about 20 gold bonds, but not more then 25 gold was added to abbots bonds (from -135 to -112)

Also, i realized, i shouldn't gt bonds at all, as i am in my region i should get it in cash.

This is my current caravan report:
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Bol   Bol
buy (limit 30 gold)   outward journey, carrying 150 gold   Drowenton   Drowenton
buy (limit 30 gold)   outward journey, carrying 150 gold   Maraba   Mangai
buy (limit 40 gold)   outward journey, carrying 200 gold   Tovabur   Tovabur
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Lawataling   Madina Gardens
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Laraibina   Laraibina
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Panabuk   Madina Gardens
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Panafau   Panafau
buy (limit 40 gold)   return journey, carrying 200 gold   Lugagun   Madina Gardens

A quick glance at the numbers has also shown that there incorrect, much more gold as been taken from the trade balance then what the game is telling me that is coming back by caravans. i count 1700, while almost 4k had been taken.

Where is the gold now? I'd suggest a parallel universe.

[Draco Tanos]

On BT, it seems we didn't get gold or bonds, even though the tax reports said we would.

[JPierreD]

In Luria Nova and Pian en Luries I and others received bonds instead of cash in the tax day, even while being in our own duchies. That is a separate issue, I'd say.

[fodder]

no reason why you should receive gold, otherwise people will be using caravans as mobile time delayed bank.

[Chenier]

no reason why you should receive gold, otherwise people will be using caravans as mobile time delayed bank.

I really doubt it.

[fodder]

see, the way it would work, if unused gold is refunded as gold... is that you would send out a stupid trade that takes ages to reach (or at least a calculated distance) at a price that you know won't result in a transaction, whilst you move around to wherever fairly safely with an empty pocket instead of having a lump of gold that can be robbed, etc. or for that matter, go out to fight with minimal gold knowing in 7 days' time you'll get gold in hand to pay your troops and you won't get your gold stolen if captured (though... heh.. funny if your gold joins you in jail just in time to be robbed)

the whole thing shows there should be some sort of treasury for dealing with food as tax and food cycles are not synced.

[Phellan]

This bug is now causing secondary effect.

Letter from Henry Elegant   (9 hours, 16 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in message group "Grand Council of Madina" (14 recipients)
Grand Council !!

It looks like the whole continent is under the influence of dark magic. The Grand Doge Vallyn tried to help me by transferring bonds. But somehow the evil forces came to know about it and took it all. I don't want to waste your money, so please don't send me money till the God removes the dark magic.

See this:
***
Henry

Gold: 2
Bonds: -63

I am sorry Grand Doge, your bonds turned into negative and now the banker who is under the influence of evil forces is asking me to pay 63 gold !!

God save us.

Henry Elegant (Knight of Madina)



We cannot send bonds to anyone who recieved the negative bonds from their tax day.

[egamma]

see, the way it would work, if unused gold is refunded as gold... is that you would send out a stupid trade that takes ages to reach (or at least a calculated distance) at a price that you know won't result in a transaction, whilst you move around to wherever fairly safely with an empty pocket instead of having a lump of gold that can be robbed, etc. or for that matter, go out to fight with minimal gold knowing in 7 days' time you'll get gold in hand to pay your troops and you won't get your gold stolen if captured (though... heh.. funny if your gold joins you in jail just in time to be robbed)

the whole thing shows there should be some sort of treasury for dealing with food as tax and food cycles are not synced.

Sending out a manual caravan takes gold from the lord's pocket; returning caravans give him back bonds.

[Ramiel]

see, the way it would work, if unused gold is refunded as gold... is that you would send out a stupid trade that takes ages to reach (or at least a calculated distance) at a price that you know won't result in a transaction, whilst you move around to wherever fairly safely with an empty pocket instead of having a lump of gold that can be robbed, etc. or for that matter, go out to fight with minimal gold knowing in 7 days' time you'll get gold in hand to pay your troops and you won't get your gold stolen if captured (though... heh.. funny if your gold joins you in jail just in time to be robbed)

the whole thing shows there should be some sort of treasury for dealing with food as tax and food cycles are not synced.

Still doubt it a helluva lot.


Also dont think it would be fair on the rest of the continent who experienced bugs to have just one realm see treatment. Sorry Madina but as someone (A Madinian I do believe) said - Testing for a reason

[fodder]

Sending out a manual caravan takes gold from the lord's pocket; returning caravans give him back bonds.

yes.. that's the whole point of why that's the case. that is... i was commenting on

"Your caravan to Madina Gardens has returned home. Unfortunately, it could not find any food to buy. 200 gold that are left are sent to you as bonds."

"Also i didn't got the 200 bonds, i got about 20 gold bonds, but not more then 25 gold was added to abbots bonds (from -135 to -112)

Also, i realized, i shouldn't gt bonds at all, as i am in my region i should get it in cash."

different issue to the whole negative bond thing, which basically shouldn't happen at all.