Massive negative trade Balance

[Phellan]

Still doubt it a helluva lot.


Also dont think it would be fair on the rest of the continent who experienced bugs to have just one realm see treatment. Sorry Madina but as someone (A Madinian I do believe) said - Testing for a reason

The rest of the Island isn't fighting a war - a few missed bonds isn't going to destroy D'Hara.

3000gp missing from Madina Coffers?   That's a whole nother issue especially when you consider that Madina supports 1/3 of our nobles - they lose their units because of having -150 gp in bonds cause we can't send them money to pay. . . significantly different outcome than if we were bumming around fighting monsters like the rest of the Continent.

[Chenier]

You need to sell more food to D'Hara to compensate!



And while Madina is poor now, shouldn't every rural be richer than it ought to be?

[Dante Silverfire]

The rest of the Island isn't fighting a war - a few missed bonds isn't going to destroy D'Hara.

3000gp missing from Madina Coffers?   That's a whole nother issue especially when you consider that Madina supports 1/3 of our nobles - they lose their units because of having -150 gp in bonds cause we can't send them money to pay. . . significantly different outcome than if we were bumming around fighting monsters like the rest of the Continent.

While I empathize with the whole problem that negative bonds are causing as a bug that you can't send them gold, I think that this whole thing isn't game mechanics fault. The Duke of Madina made a bad choice by trying to purchase more food than their city could conceivably pay for. Also, unless the caravans aren't more bugged when returning, all of the gold should be returned to Madina for a very large income in the next tax so I see this mostly working itself out.

Also, I believe it is understood by most players of this game that we are playing a game in constant beta, and bugs happen. Unless they are so severe to extremely cause adverse gameplay it usually isn't reset or modified as far as I am aware.

As far as fighting a war goes, in the end if this causes 5 days of not having gold on hand for troops at max you're going to lose what, a single region? maybe two, but very slim chance in the short term. Then, since they'll have likely overextended then you just push in and take back a region or two in response. For the most part, I don't see a single missed tax causing downright devastation of a realm at least in most wars I've been a part of.

Also, fighting monsters on Dwilight, if you haven't had to deal with it for a while is very very difficult at times and can be more devestating than a war when you are overrun on multiple sides by huge monsters. While this isn't "currently" the case for my realm on Dwilight it has been in the past, and I can definitely see that tehre are realms out there that monster fighting can be very difficult.

[Ramiel]

The rest of the Island isn't fighting a war - a few missed bonds isn't going to destroy D'Hara.

3000gp missing from Madina Coffers?   That's a whole nother issue especially when you consider that Madina supports 1/3 of our nobles - they lose their units because of having -150 gp in bonds cause we can't send them money to pay. . . significantly different outcome than if we were bumming around fighting monsters like the rest of the Continent.

Excuse me?

A few missed taxes up here in PeL have actually caused us a significant problem - for starters it gave the Hordes 3 of our regions!

Now to you that might be Bumming around, but to some of us it IS a war until we can get into a situation where we can go off wasting our gold against other humans.

You have no idea how bad a situation PeL (and to extent LN) is actually in considerations of its geography.

Madina is fighting one little petty war that will blow over soon and again their will be peace in Madina.

Luria on the other hand faces Spawn Points of the Divide Mountains, Palm Sea, Desert of Silhouettes and Axewild, the area of Sallowtown, the Flow Penisular, etc. Its a constant struggle.

By rights all it would take is for the over 20k CS hordes to break through our barriers (which they have done somewhat) and unite in Askileon Purliues to take out Askileon itself.

Madina on the other hand: The Duke frakked up as did a few bugs - so Human error, all they need to do is hold the Tower. They dont have 20k + sitting on their borders (and in) that has multiple access points.

Yes, Luria has it far worse than silly Madina. And if you want to get technical, D'hara through sheer human arrogance has it much worse than the rest of the continent combined! Specially if they were to lose all those Food suppliers

[Ramiel]

Also, fighting monsters on Dwilight, if you haven't had to deal with it for a while is very very difficult at times and can be more devestating than a war when you are overrun on multiple sides by huge monsters. While this isn't "currently" the case for my realm on Dwilight it has been in the past, and I can definitely see that tehre are realms out there that monster fighting can be very difficult.

Feel free to come lend us a sword or two

[Chenier]

While I empathize with the whole problem that negative bonds are causing as a bug that you can't send them gold, I think that this whole thing isn't game mechanics fault. The Duke of Madina made a bad choice by trying to purchase more food than their city could conceivably pay for. Also, unless the caravans aren't more bugged when returning, all of the gold should be returned to Madina for a very large income in the next tax so I see this mostly working itself out.

Also, I believe it is understood by most players of this game that we are playing a game in constant beta, and bugs happen. Unless they are so severe to extremely cause adverse gameplay it usually isn't reset or modified as far as I am aware.

As far as fighting a war goes, in the end if this causes 5 days of not having gold on hand for troops at max you're going to lose what, a single region? maybe two, but very slim chance in the short term. Then, since they'll have likely overextended then you just push in and take back a region or two in response. For the most part, I don't see a single missed tax causing downright devastation of a realm at least in most wars I've been a part of.

Also, fighting monsters on Dwilight, if you haven't had to deal with it for a while is very very difficult at times and can be more devestating than a war when you are overrun on multiple sides by huge monsters. While this isn't "currently" the case for my realm on Dwilight it has been in the past, and I can definitely see that tehre are realms out there that monster fighting can be very difficult.

While I agree that it sounds like things will fix themselves with the next tax, I'm appalled by what you have stated in the last two paragraphs. Have you even looked at the map? Are you even aware of the war they are fighting?

For Aurvandil to attack any of Madina's regions, they have to pass through Madina's capital, Tower Fatmilak. If the tower fails, it's GG for Madina. Just like it would be GG for Aurvandil if Candiels failed.

You really should inform yourself before telling people that they are overreacting and that it's no big deal. They can't "overextend" themselves when both enemy capitals are adjacent to each other. There's a huge different between the Madina war and having large hordes of monsters in your peripheral rurals 10 regions away from your capital.

By rights all it would take is for the over 20k CS hordes to break through our barriers (which they have done somewhat) and unite in Askileon Purliues to take out Askileon itself.

Madina on the other hand: The Duke frakked up as did a few bugs - so Human error, all they need to do is hold the Tower. They dont have 20k + sitting on their borders (and in) that has multiple access points.

Yes, Luria has it far worse than silly Madina. And if you want to get technical, D'hara through sheer human arrogance has it much worse than the rest of the continent combined! Specially if they were to lose all those Food suppliers

As I said, Pian en Luries risks losing peripheral regions. Madina risks losing their capital and therefore their chokepoint defending the rest of their lands from Aurvandil.

Not in the least comparable. Sorry, but your hordes don't mean squat. They don't threaten total annihilation of your realm.

[Ramiel]

"risks losing peripheral regions"

Ahh I forgot... Madinian... wouldnt expect you to understand... actually no... I would expect you to understand exactly what loosing rurals mean. After all you lost a few cities to Starvation in your time havent you...

If the Capital of Madina is the tower then.... no still tough luck.

Its testing Island, its the same damn risks. And as someone said - will fix itself in the end.

Personally the idea of launching a campaign during Autumn and Winter is appalling in itself... but I forget... Madina doesnt have the crazy hordes Luria faces in their 'peripheral regions'.

[Chenier]

"risks losing peripheral regions"

Ahh I forgot... Madinian... wouldnt expect you to understand... actually no... I would expect you to understand exactly what loosing rurals mean. After all you lost a few cities to Starvation in your time havent you...

If the Capital of Madina is the tower then.... no still tough luck.

Its testing Island, its the same damn risks. And as someone said - will fix itself in the end.

Personally the idea of launching a campaign during Autumn and Winter is appalling in itself... but I forget... Madina doesnt have the crazy hordes Luria faces in their 'peripheral regions'.

You have so many rurals that you aren't dependent on any single one.

And hell, we only have 2 rurals. We can manage 3 cities most of the times, and it has been ages since any city other than Port Nebel has revolted. You are close enough to actually trade with the massive farm realms that are to your north. Why don't you, if a few monsters is all it takes to threaten your food supply?

Don't go expecting pity from me because you find your realm doesn't have enough food.

[Ramiel]

You have so many rurals that you aren't dependent on any single one.

And hell, we only have 2 rurals. We can manage 3 cities most of the times, and it has been ages since any city other than Port Nebel has revolted. You are close enough to actually trade with the massive farm realms that are to your north. Why don't you, if a few monsters is all it takes to threaten your food supply?

Don't go expecting pity from me because you find your realm doesn't have enough food.

The realm as a whole? No. Poryatown? Yes. And frankly I need Poryatown alive so I can squeeze its Duke for all its money to buy more troops to push back the abominations.

So Askileon is always in supply, Poryatown relies on Dantooine and Lupa Lapu.

However during Winter Askileon needs CT and Santoo as well.

IIRC, our cities are bigger than yours. The only reason you want Madina to get treatment instead of the whole continent is so you has food for the winter

[Chenier]

The realm as a whole? No. Poryatown? Yes. And frankly I need Poryatown alive so I can squeeze its Duke for all its money to buy more troops to push back the abominations.

So Askileon is always in supply, Poryatown relies on Dantooine and Lupa Lapu.

However during Winter Askileon needs CT and Santoo as well.

IIRC, our cities are bigger than yours. The only reason you want Madina to get treatment instead of the whole continent is so you has food for the winter

I'm not saying it should get treatment, I said it will likely fix itself next tax.

However, I do think that it's a very risky spot to be in, way more dangerous than what anyone else is facing right now.

Only 2 of your 4 cities are bigger than ours. The other two are smaller. And had we not starved badly this last winter, they would have been significantly smaller. Still, they are quite smaller regardless.

Point is, your monsters are only a threat to you being huge. They don't threaten your survival, not by a long shot. Madina's enemy does threaten their survival. You said it yourself: you need the resources to push back the monsters. As in, farther away, and to continue your expansion. The monsters don't threaten the Lurias in any way, they are just an obstacle to your growth.

[Dante Silverfire]

I'm not saying it should get treatment, I said it will likely fix itself next tax.

However, I do think that it's a very risky spot to be in, way more dangerous than what anyone else is facing right now.

It may be a risky spot to be in, and I understand that, but it doesn't mean that it can't be fixed and dealt with. I mean, shouldn't your troop leaders already have enough money on hand to pay their men for a week or two anyway in the field? Also, if they are at home in the defensive they can stay for a long time with a very low morale and still defend well enough. Pian en Luries may have a lot of regions but it literally fights for survival (usually) against the monsters. If every single battle isn't always won, it is a guaranteed starvation in the cities during winter which means the next year we are weaker and will lose more regions. It isn't about expansion because we have simply been trying to hold onto our lands during and after winter. Our expansion outside of winter is simply to try and hopefully offset all of our winter losses.

Madina is defending a choke point which is a lot easier than being surrounded.

Feel free to come lend us a sword or two

What? My cavalry sitting in the capitol doing nothing isn't helpful?

[Chenier]

The Lurias are, the way I see it, bigger than ever. So I consider that they could shrink some and still be fine. Regardless...

So all of the negative bonds were voided...

But, won't that mean double gold for Madina? 'cause wasn't that gold that was deducted from the people of Madina already paid to the rurals?

[Phellan]

The Lurias are, the way I see it, bigger than ever. So I consider that they could shrink some and still be fine. Regardless...

So all of the negative bonds were voided...

But, won't that mean double gold for Madina? 'cause wasn't that gold that was deducted from the people of Madina already paid to the rurals?

We'll see.   Abbot reported a whole bunch of bugs with the Caravans too, which are skewing the tax results - gold is disappearing and appearing - it will take next week and we can see what the results look like, it could be negative again even for all we know.

I mean - we are net exporting food to Paisly by huge amounts, and at a profit.   In theory there is no way Madina could have had "negative" gold.

Also, keep in mind the negative gold went in other places too - as the Ruler it even caused me to lose tax gold - that money is not coming back, as it was "collected" from last week, but was reduced by the negative cash collected.

All sorts of weird bugs.   But it'll work out.  We can pay troops for this week with the negative bonds gone, which is fine all we needed.   The rest can be debugged as we go.   Welcome to testing and all that

[Nosferatus]

at first i thought the problem with resolve it's self, but the 3 k missing won't come back.
Even more gold is lost because people tried to send bonds to those effected, those bonds vanished.

I found it a silly discusion to talk about who gets a fix and who not, everyone whos gold has diapeared, especially in such large numbers should get it returned.

It's a testing island, but major bugs like this always had a fix.
I don't see why not now.

Again the ~3k is gone, it won't come back via caravans.
Some caravans did return some bonds but it was all lost due to the negative bonds bug(the balance of bonds didn't change at all, added bonds or gold disappeared).

Also something else: for other players who don't read this forum, we should include some instructions of how these caravans work, i didn't know they took gold from the trade balance, to be honest i didn't even think of what they'd do, perhaps i assumed the gold was taken as soon as the deal was made.

[Chenier]

Food sales to Paisly were recent, though, did any have the time to return?

Also, yea, a lot of people lost gold. But didn't everyone aligned to these rural regions *gain* an equal amount of gold?