Religious power rankings

[Nathan]

As a side note, there is a branch of Adgharianism which considers itself a subset of MAE theologically (just that the other entities are unworthy of worship).

There's a branch that considers itself a subset of Sartanism too, but we don't talk about them too much Our own fault really, "Oh, Sartan is just Tark, and some people worship him"

[Arundel]

Try actually acquainting yourself with the religious politics of the continent before making such claims. It wasn't that long ago that Adghar fanatics went buring temples of Sartan in Arcaea. There was also some religious Turmoil with Thain down south. FEI does a better job with religions then most. Hell we had a bloody crusade against a noble calling himself a god that resulted in at least two destroyed realms, and you always have the ill fated attempts of Sartan to found a new realm.

Ill attempts? More like awesome attempts! But no, I would like to hold a Crusade sometime, perhaps when an Empire is formed and there are more Sartanians outside of Sorraine.

lol

I don't have standing in MAE in GA or anywhere. I just think that some heretics need to burn. FEI needs more religious fanaticism. 

You're welcome. It'll keep growing as well, considering religious fanaticism is the name of the game in Sorraine. Once everything is set in stone on the inside, that's when the fun begins elsewhere  .

On a side note, felt like reviving the topic after so much has changed. Adgharhinism is now dead, or so we think. Sartanism is dramatically on the rise like breeding rabbits during mating season, and MAE is just a massive joke. When Queen Arella demonstrated some kind of animosity to my closing of an Aenilian temple, 2 months or more after it happened, I laughed. Even more-so when she forgot about it almost immediately. This new Dragon religion has next to no chance of surviving, considering Ohnar West's time on this continent is drawing to an end. That, and they're surrounded by a bunch of religious fanatics.

My opinions may be biased due to my inherent bias in favor of Sartanism .

[Morningstar]

When Queen Arella demonstrated some kind of animosity to my closing of an Aenilian temple, 2 months or more after it happened, I laughed. Even more-so when she forgot about it almost immediately.

Arella wasn't ruler when it happened, and only brought it up to prove Sorraine wasn't as free and open as you were trying to convince the southern alliance you would be. And trust me, she never forgot. But that's one of the many things that made it impossible to take Caspius at his word and why his not-very-convincing attempt at an alliance never got off the ground. Caspius speaks too much doublespeak, but it's not like most. It's not truth or lies. It's political or religious. Which is more subtle, but far more dangerous to everyone.

[Indirik]

It's also what makes it more fun.

[Antonine]

I do quite like the fact that Caspius has set up the realm in such a way that at any given moment Selene could depose him single handedly without anyone being able to do a thing to stop it. Yay for theocracies!

[Antonine]

But in terms of power rankings I think the Church of Sartan is probably the most powerful at the moment in terms of the activity within it and the number of committed nobles.

And, if it isn't already the most powerful then it will be as soon as the Dark Isle is colonised

Then the only thing we'll need is a crusade against a suitably week foe in order to unite the faithful *cackles*

[Indirik]

And, coincidentally, we need to finish off Ohnar West, too!

[Velax]

Taylin doesn't have any particular leanings toward the Sartan Church. What's her angle with Sorraine? Just in it for the action?

[Antonine]

I think Taylin is just being fairly pragmatic about things. I don't see her as an especially religious type.

[Arundel]

Arella wasn't ruler when it happened, and only brought it up to prove Sorraine wasn't as free and open as you were trying to convince the southern alliance you would be. And trust me, she never forgot. But that's one of the many things that made it impossible to take Caspius at his word and why his not-very-convincing attempt at an alliance never got off the ground. Caspius speaks too much doublespeak, but it's not like most. It's not truth or lies. It's political or religious. Which is more subtle, but far more dangerous to everyone.

I still fail to see where Caspius gave any hint to a "free" and "open" holy kingdom. I think there is a distinct difference between what the south interpreted as Caspius' intentions, and his actual intentions.

EDIT:

I do quite like the fact that Caspius has set up the realm in such a way that at any given moment Selene could depose him single handedly without anyone being able to do a thing to stop it. Yay for theocracies!

There are definitely ways to counter that, should it happen, but the power is intended to be in the hands of the church. I feel this game lacks dramatically in religious authority and influence, and if I have to sacrifice my own power to assure religion actually has a place, I will gladly do so on all of my characters.

[Draco Tanos]

There are definitely ways to counter that, should it happen, but the power is intended to be in the hands of the church. I feel this game lacks dramatically in religious authority and influence, and if I have to sacrifice my own power to assure religion actually has a place, I will gladly do so on all of my characters.

Unfortunately this is most certainly true.  Religion is considered like a tool rather than an true and valid faith in Battlemaster.  I really wish the people who used it solely as a tool or specifically went around SAYING it's a tool would be 'bolted. -_-

[BardicNerd]

Unfortunately this is most certainly true.  Religion is considered like a tool rather than an true and valid faith in Battlemaster.  I really wish the people who used it solely as a tool or specifically went around SAYING it's a tool would be 'bolted. -_-

Plenty of people do and did use in as a tool in RL.  They just rarely say it outright (though some have).

People using religion as a tool, even viewing it primarily or only as such, is perfectly realistic.  As I recall, Machiavelli, who is only just barely post-medieval, wrote on the uses of religion as a tool, just to give one example.

[Bedwyr]

Plenty of people do and did use in as a tool in RL.  They just rarely say it outright (though some have).

People using religion as a tool, even viewing it primarily or only as such, is perfectly realistic.  As I recall, Machiavelli, who is only just barely post-medieval, wrote on the uses of religion as a tool, just to give one example.

He did.  Quite openly, and quite specifically, and at great length.

What I'd really like to see more of (and what I attempted to do with Koli) is use politics as a tool for religious purposes.

[Arundel]

He did.  Quite openly, and quite specifically, and at great length.

What I'd really like to see more of (and what I attempted to do with Koli) is use politics as a tool for religious purposes.

Plenty of people do and did use in as a tool in RL.  They just rarely say it outright (though some have).

People using religion as a tool, even viewing it primarily or only as such, is perfectly realistic.  As I recall, Machiavelli, who is only just barely post-medieval, wrote on the uses of religion as a tool, just to give one example.

Machiavelli was a hardcore sociopath....

You both make it seem like religion was just a tool, which it wasn't. Nobles of the western world grew up their entire lives having Catholicism drilled into them. They lived, ate, and slept religion. Having it be a dramatic influence in their everyday actions is the attribute at which Draco and I feel is missing. Most players in this game shove religion aside as an obstacle, giving it little to no attention as their rise their way through the ranks. Having everybody be Machiavelli is outrageous for a 'medieval atmosphere' game, Dwilight or not.

Which leads to my point. When religion was the major influence in everyone's life, it was then used as a tool at which to use the faithful. That is exactly what I'm trying to build in Sorraine. The tool Bardic has misinterpreted and Draco is speaking of is its in-game function in resisting takeovers - essentially - and the other code functional benefits that go along.

[Geronus]

Machiavelli was a hardcore sociopath....

You both make it seem like religion was just a tool, which it wasn't. Nobles of the western world grew up their entire lives having Catholicism drilled into them. They lived, ate, and slept religion. Having it be a dramatic influence in their everyday actions is the attribute at which Draco and I feel is missing. Most players in this game shove religion aside as an obstacle, giving it little to no attention as their rise their way through the ranks. Having everybody be Machiavelli is outrageous for a 'medieval atmosphere' game, Dwilight or not.

Which leads to my point. When religion was the major influence in everyone's life, it was then used as a tool at which to use the faithful. That is exactly what I'm trying to build in Sorraine. The tool Bardic has misinterpreted and Draco is speaking of is its in-game function in resisting takeovers - essentially - and the other code functional benefits that go along.

There are a hundred non-mechanical ways to apply religion to politics. On Dwilight, for example, my characters have historically been able to wield enormous power through their religion, and virtually none of that power came from the gross mechanical effects of what a priest can do in the game, nor did they seek to use it for exclusively religious ends. Neither have they been particularly zealous, though obviously they're not stupid enough to appear openly faithless (not that they are).

I see nothing wrong with treating medieval religion cynically. Many prominent historical figures of the medieval ruling class did exactly that in real life. Think Henry II, Henry VIII, and Philip IV of France. Think the Avignon Papacy, which came about for purely political reasons. Think of what happened to Joan of Arc. Think, for that matter, of virtually every French and English King ever. 'True faith' was for the peasantry. Nobles were too savvy and too cynical to care that much, and if they were true believers they generally weren't very good rulers. Being a successful monarch required more than a little ruthlessness and pragmatism.