Sanguis Astroism

[Glaumring the Fox]

this. all the way. like in astrum when i suggested we burn asylon to the ground to prove a point i was met with "we've completed our objectives in this war". then when rumors of niselur vassalizing libero surfaced i suggested we do so first and was met with silence.

This goes all the way back to when I was on the council of SA and in a small pathetic kingdom called Asylon right under Caerwyn, asking to be more integral to SA and asking Astrum for more support as a potential theocracy and then Astrum deciding that Asylon was the biggest enemy of SA ever even though we weren't and could have been utilized better by the elders in SA if they were capable of seeing further than 5 minutes of strategy.  Asylon was a shoe in for inclusion, yet in both circumstances SA and the Moot both decided that this small weak kingdom that was supposedly indefensible was not important enough...You guys had a pro-SA king on the throne in Asylon building temples and begging priests to come and preach and you guys still messed it up!

[Zakilevo]

This goes all the way back to when I was on the council of SA and in a small pathetic kingdom called Asylon right under Caerwyn, asking to be more integral to SA and asking Astrum for more support as a potential theocracy and then Astrum deciding that Asylon was the biggest enemy of SA ever even though we weren't and could have been utilized better by the elders in SA if they were capable of seeing further than 5 minutes of strategy.  Asylon was a shoe in for inclusion, yet in both circumstances SA and the Moot both decided that this small weak kingdom that was supposedly indefensible was not important enough...You guys had a pro-SA king on the throne in Asylon building temples and begging priests to come and preach and you guys still messed it up!

What?

[Glaumring the Fox]

What?

I'm just rubbing it in... 

You probably weren't around back then anyways...

[OFaolain]

I'm just rubbing it in... 

You probably weren't around back then anyways...

His character Kihalin was a high-ranking Astrumite at the time, IIRC; I think he may have been my character's lord to boot.  Don't think Kihalin was ever in the full members channel though, I don't recall.

[Glaumring the Fox]

  I'm just having fun trying to rile up Indirik.   

[pcw27]

One thing I've got to say is the church totally played with kid gloves in this war and it bit us in the ass big time. No Auto De Fes and we only excommunicated one person. We could have done so much more damage if we'd played hardball. I think that serves to highlight what's gone wrong with SA.

The problem is we're afraid to be rabble rousers. We're afraid to send priests into lands where they're forbidden. We're afraid to sponsor pro SA rebellions. We think if we do that our priests will be persecuted and our temples burned. We're afraid to excommunicate people. We think if we do that all it means is fewer members. What we fail to realize is that' these are the things which make SA an exciting religion to be in. Some people want the chance to become martyrs or heretics. We shouldn't be afraid to lose characters in this way. If you can't get kicked out of SA then being a member has no meaning. If you can't become a martyr then there's nothing to aspire to. In the end we'll lose way more characters if we simply make the religion boring and bland because people will just plain leave.

The current situation could lead to an exciting age of fundamentalism. Now that the religion has more followers then ever it means more lords and rulers can't risk going against the church. SA players need to start checking their modern day sensibilities at the door and start getting medieval. We need more people to see Pagans and Heathens as their enemies and to see it as their duty to see Sanguis Astroism become the state religion. Priests will be killed, temples will be burned, astroist peasants will riot, duchies will secede, rebellions will be hatched. These are all good things for the game and for Sanguis Astroism.

[Zakilevo]

His character Kihalin was a high-ranking Astrumite at the time, IIRC; I think he may have been my character's lord to boot.  Don't think Kihalin was ever in the full members channel though, I don't recall.

Kihalin only had three knights during my time as a duke of Astrum. The only one I remember is Khari(?). Kihalin was a full member for a long time but I did pause him after Astrum defeated Caerwyn. I only unpaused him to check on Astrum only to find out how boring Astrum had become. I tried to remove Sergio but Leopold declared war so that didn't happen . Then I had to pause Kihalin in the middle of the war due to my school work and exams. I doubt I will have time to play him for a long time.

[Eduardo Almighty]

I have to agree with pcw27 here. Looking from outside, or the Church have no power anymore or have too much fear to adopt a real religious power over its enemies.

However, while you still have Morek, the religion can reborn again and again. Harm the west is another history with the fall of Astrum, but a religion is much more than just one of its realms.

[OFaolain]

Kihalin only had three knights during my time as a duke of Astrum. The only one I remember is Khari(?). Kihalin was a full member for a long time but I did pause him after Astrum defeated Caerwyn. I only unpaused him to check on Astrum only to find out how boring Astrum had become. I tried to remove Sergio but Leopold declared war so that didn't happen . Then I had to pause Kihalin in the middle of the war due to my school work and exams. I doubt I will have time to play him for a long time.

Duke of Chrysantalys, right?  Several of the Niselurian exiles were vassals of that city, although Sergio might have been Duke there at the time.

I agree with Pat also:  the Church playing hardball is much more interesting than the Church playing softball.

[Indirik]

There's nothing wrong with the church playing hardball. You just have to choose the right time. As far as my character saw it, this war was not the right time. May it have helped Astrum win the war? Maybe. Maybe not. But what is victory worth of you have to sacrifice your principles to gain it?

[Eduardo Almighty]

Well... you have a point. Mainly when the result can be the Lords closing the temples of SA everywhere.

[Kain]

One thing I've got to say is the church totally played with kid gloves in this war and it bit us in the ass big time. No Auto De Fes and we only excommunicated one person. We could have done so much more damage if we'd played hardball. I think that serves to highlight what's gone wrong with SA.

The problem is we're afraid to be rabble rousers. We're afraid to send priests into lands where they're forbidden. We're afraid to sponsor pro SA rebellions. We think if we do that our priests will be persecuted and our temples burned. We're afraid to excommunicate people. We think if we do that all it means is fewer members. What we fail to realize is that' these are the things which make SA an exciting religion to be in. Some people want the chance to become martyrs or heretics. We shouldn't be afraid to lose characters in this way. If you can't get kicked out of SA then being a member has no meaning. If you can't become a martyr then there's nothing to aspire to. In the end we'll lose way more characters if we simply make the religion boring and bland because people will just plain leave.

The current situation could lead to an exciting age of fundamentalism. Now that the religion has more followers then ever it means more lords and rulers can't risk going against the church. SA players need to start checking their modern day sensibilities at the door and start getting medieval. We need more people to see Pagans and Heathens as their enemies and to see it as their duty to see Sanguis Astroism become the state religion. Priests will be killed, temples will be burned, astroist peasants will riot, duchies will secede, rebellions will be hatched. These are all good things for the game and for Sanguis Astroism.

Now that is a religion you want to be a part of! A religion that takes itself seriously enough to risk upsetting people.

[pcw27]

Well... you have a point. Mainly when the result can be the Lords closing the temples of SA everywhere.

Have you ever tried to close a temple dedicated to the faith the majority of your peasants worship? I tried it in Outer Tilog because why not it's outer Tilog. First of all I failed to close the temple because the peasants defended it. Then the attempt drove the entire region into full revolt not just losing my own lordship but also driving it rogue.

That's the kind of power SA needs right now.

There's nothing wrong with the church playing hardball. You just have to choose the right time. As far as my character saw it, this war was not the right time. May it have helped Astrum win the war? Maybe. Maybe not. But what is victory worth of you have to sacrifice your principles to gain it?

Principles for a more civalized time  . At the start SA made huge strides by funding colonists. It paid to be a little flexible. But now there are no new lands to conquer, but most of them have SA peasants, now it's time to be uncompromising zealots.

[Eduardo Almighty]

Don't worry... because os that we are spreading the word of the Sacred Fruit around... to avoid too much problems if at some point we really need to close temples. 

[pcw27]

Don't worry... because os that we are spreading the word of the Sacred Fruit around... to avoid too much problems if at some point we really need to close temples. 

That might work in Asylon, but Niselur is chock full of Astroist peasants. In my day it was something like 95%. There's also D'Hara which has a tone of Astroists, and no matter what becomes of Astrum's lands, the peasants will be almost all astroists.

Undoing this will take a lot of dedicated priests, and I think ours will be more dedicated.